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openSUSE:Testing meeting 20091117

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Agenda

  1. Usability Testing for 11.3
  2. Initial planning for testing 11.3


Transcript

[20:57] <Holgi> hi all [20:57] <thsundel> hello [20:57] --> bmwiedemann hat den Kanal betreten (n=bmwiedem@mobilix.zq1.de). [20:57] <badshah> Hi! [20:58] <bmwiedemann> hi. two minutes to go til meeting :) [20:58] <thsundel> time in sync :) [20:59] <CupRacer> Hi @all! [20:59] <bmwiedemann> only because I'm running 11.2 with nohz=off (bug on this machine) [20:59] <thsundel> Well it's that there is a workaround :) [21:00] <thsundel> Downloading Fedora 12 at the moment to see how it stacks up against OS11.2 [21:01] <bmwiedemann> ubuntu-9.10 might also be worth comparing [21:01] --> Mintal hat den Kanal betreten (n=opera@a89-152-178-76.cpe.netcabo.pt). [21:01] <thsundel> Yeah, tried that one already [21:02] <thsundel> One good thing with ubuntu was that I was able to use my N95 as a 3G modem for my laptop easily [21:03] <thsundel> Haven't got it to work with OS11.2 yet [21:03] <thsundel> :( [21:03] <LWFinger> Is that with NM in both cases? [21:03] <bmwiedemann> yast2 modem something? [21:04] <thsundel> I used Blueman with ubuntu to set it up [21:04] <Holgi> ok, 5 min after the official start [21:05] <Holgi> should we begin? [21:05] <LWFinger> Sure [21:05] <thsundel> Sure, what are todaays topics [21:05] <bmwiedemann> I do not want to be moderator this time. [21:05] <LWFinger> Is there an agenda today? [21:05] <Holgi> good, who wants to lead instead? [21:06] <Holgi> Discussion for this week [21:06] <Holgi> * Usability related testing for 11.3 [21:06] <LWFinger> Any interest in discussing 11.2 problems? [21:06] <thsundel> Are there any :)? [21:07] <Holgi> LWFinger: so you are going to lead? [21:07] <badshah> also: testing official unreleased updates from test rpository [21:07] <LWFinger> ;) [21:07] <LWFinger> Sure, I'll lead. [21:07] <badshah> for 11.2 [21:07] <Holgi> LWFinger: good [21:08] <LWFinger> There are some recurring problems in the networking forums. [21:08] <Holgi> from my point of view it would be a good time to start planing opensuse 11.3 testing [21:08] <LWFinger> OK, anyone have any ideas? [21:09] <Holgi> but let's start with the agenda [21:09] <thsundel> Are there any specific new features in 11.3 that we should focus on? [21:09] <Holgi> since I did not submit that topic via the wiki [21:09] <LWFinger> Who did? [21:09] <badshah> Holgi: i added that topic, that is for 11.3 too [21:09] <Holgi> badshah: good [21:09] <LWFinger> badshah: Want to start? [21:10] <Holgi> thsundel: it's not clear yet (not decided) [21:10] --> Kollstrand hat den Kanal betreten (n=Kollstra@86.84-49-64.nextgentel.com). [21:10] <badshah> What i mean is that we should be testing out the usability of various items like the printer-module in yast apart from the normal feature and application testing [21:10] <Holgi> thsundel: but you can check http://features.opensuse.org/ on your own [21:11] <LWFinger> badshah: Is that not covered in normal features? [21:11] <badshah> over time there are quite a few things that i have noted are not covered by normal features/bugs but which hurt usability [21:12] <LWFinger> Is this something to add to Testopia? [21:12] <bmwiedemann> such as not giving a "disk full" error message? https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=533601 [21:12] <bugbot> openSUSE bug 533601 in openSUSE 11.2 (YaST2) "Live-Installation on Blank Hard Drive Fails" [Normal,Reopened] [21:12] <badshah> for instance: the connection wizard in the yast-printer-module. needs a lot of improvement, really difficult at the present for a newbie to figure out what to do with it [21:13] <Holgi> badshah: that sounds like a feature request, doesn't it? [21:13] <LWFinger> I think so too. [21:14] <LWFinger> Anyone have trouble setting up printers? [21:14] <LWFinger> Of course, none of us are newbies. [21:14] <bmwiedemann> yes [21:14] <badshah> Holgi: some of it, but for example in the printer-module where you set up network printers over lpd, there is a button called test connection above the drivers-text box [21:14] <thsundel> Nope, but it's not that friendly for normal users [21:15] <bmwiedemann> well. not setting up. but firefox and gimp would not show my printer. [21:15] <badshah> clicking it says enter driver first! the button should obviously be below that field then [21:16] <LWFinger> bmwiedemann: Has the issue been resolved? [21:16] <badshah> the intention of adding this point here is that we should really test usability and file bugs/features as required for various components [21:16] <badshah> in my opinion usability is one more point apart from bugs that we should test out [21:16] <Holgi> badshah: maybe a combination of bug report and feature request would be best here ;-) [21:17] <badshah> Holgi: that is right, but the testing of usability assuming one is a newbie is what we should be doing, and then filing bugs/features [21:17] <LWFinger> To make a general point, getting started at the beginning of 11.3 gives us an advantage. [21:18] <bmwiedemann> LWFinger: not yet https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=546013 [21:18] <bugbot> openSUSE bug 546013 in openSUSE 11.2 (GNOME) "can not print to remote cups from firefox, gimp and evince" [Normal,Reopened] [21:18] <Holgi> badshah: sure, that would make sense [21:18] <badshah> similarly with application-browser/control-centre in gnome [21:18] <badshah> and several others [21:19] <LWFinger> It can be hard to play newbie. [21:19] <badshah> for 11.3, my opinion is that if we see a new feature, we test that feature for bugs and also usability and report that. how this can be done systematically is something i am not so sure yet [21:19] <LWFinger> One of the networking bugs shows when both wired and wireless are set to start "On boot". [21:20] <LWFinger> I would never think to make that mistake. [21:20] <LWFinger> My wired always starts "on cable connection". [21:21] <badshah> LWFinger: one should not have to choose, that should happen by default [21:22] <thsundel> One feature I would like to see in 11.3 is to have the option to select "regional settings" in the installer like Windows has. [21:23] <LWFinger> What do those do? [21:23] <bmwiedemann> "usability" is rather hard to test. It depends on expectations of prospective users. [21:23] <thsundel> I use english as my primary language but that doesn'r mean that my regional settings are english [21:24] <Holgi> thsundel: make a feature request about that! [21:24] <thsundel> Sure [21:24] <badshah> bmwiedemann: in some cases it is not so difficult, we try to report what we find unusable :) [21:25] <bmwiedemann> OK [21:25] <-- Kollstrand hat den Server verlassen (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). [21:25] <badshah> badshah: but this would not work with testopia though, coz testopia is for bugs from what i understand, right? [21:26] <LWFinger> How many of you follow the Forums? That is a good place to see what couses problems. [21:26] <bmwiedemann> not me [21:27] --> Kollstrand hat den Kanal betreten (n=Kollstra@86.84-49-64.nextgentel.com). [21:27] <CupRacer> LWFinger: Another way are the mailing lists. [21:27] <badshah> me neither, but we should be more actively involved in the forums; it would help understand problems other users are having [21:28] *** Kollstrand nennt sich jetzt MrKane. [21:28] <LWFinger> I know that they can take a lot of time, but it is easy to skip over the standard ones like 3rd party graphics drivers, etc. [21:28] <Holgi> badshah: for what testopia is wrong? [21:29] <badshah> Holgi: i mean testopia == bug testing for features and applications; not so suitable for usability related tests, right? [21:29] <Holgi> badshah: why not [21:30] <Holgi> badshah: I don't see a reason why it should not [21:30] <badshah> when i test out a feature in coordination with testopia i am looking at a test case, and if or not that feature satisfies that test case [21:31] <Holgi> badshah: a test case could also be: "usability of *** ok?!" [21:31] <badshah> Holgi:is it possible to set up a different test plan for usability related tests alone? [21:31] <badshah> Holgi: ok, that would be gr8 [21:31] <Holgi> badshah: sure [21:32] <badshah> Holgi: thing is, if we have a major new feature (for example we had official zypper dup for 11.2) such features should be a part of the test plan for usability [21:32] --> Kollstrand hat den Kanal betreten (n=Kollstra@86.84-49-64.nextgentel.com). [21:33] <Holgi> badshah: we can create test cases and test plan like we want [21:33] <badshah> we could add not-so-new things like the printer-module and partitioner as well in there. [21:34] <badshah> Holgi: ok, so for 11.3 let us have a usability test plan as well? [21:34] <Holgi> badshah: sure, I can create it if needed [21:35] <LWFinger> badshah: That should work as long as we all agree to test for usability as well as bugs. [21:35] <badshah> Holgi: ok, thank you, this is exactly what i had in mind while adding this item for today's meeting [21:35] <LWFinger> Any other points on this topic? [21:35] <badshah> LWFinger: yes, we should keep looking at usability closely too [21:36] <Holgi> my question in regard to 11.3 is [21:36] <CupRacer> Does anybody of you have or have heard about difficulties regarding the deactivated SSH daemon? I had about 70 visitors on my blog who searched for ~ "opensuse 11.2 ssh connection refused". [21:36] <Holgi> I think it would be a good idea to start planing for 11.3 tests [21:36] <Kollstrand> nope [21:36] <CupRacer> I think that the new behavior is not communicated well... [21:36] <Kollstrand> cupracer :nope [21:37] <LWFinger> CupRacer: The situation has been discussed in the forums. Can you summarize? [21:37] <Holgi> CupRacer: probably did did not find the part in the installation to eanable it [21:37] <CupRacer> LWFinger: No, sorry. I didn't follow the forums, yet. [21:38] <Kollstrand> Holgi: when can we expect firswt 11.3 build to test? [21:38] <CupRacer> Holgi: I think that they didn't know that they had to search for that option. It's new. [21:38] <badshah> Holgi: yes, we should start planning: for 11.3 we should carry out testing using testopia thoroughly [21:38] <Mintal> bad luck ? [21:38] <Holgi> Kollstrand: I don't have the plan in mind [21:38] <-- MrKane hat den Server verlassen (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). [21:38] *** Kollstrand nennt sich jetzt MrKane. [21:39] <MrKane> /msg NickServ identify birger1 [21:39] *** MrKane nennt sich jetzt Kollstrand. [21:39] <LWFinger> Holgi: With 11.3, does it make sense to take a sandbox 11.2 system, enable only Factory repos and zypper dup? [21:39] <badshah> for testing 11.3 we should therefore decide on test-plans first [21:40] <Holgi> LWFinger: probably not [21:40] <Holgi> my question is more about general planing, not the testing itself [21:40] <CupRacer> Kollstrand: Here's the roadmap for 11.3: http://en.opensuse.org/Roadmap [21:40] <Holgi> what would we like to test [21:40] <Mintal> is suse Life using packages from packamn ? [21:40] <Holgi> where to focus [21:41] <Holgi> check for available test cases [21:41] <LWFinger> My idea was that the sooneer you find bugs, the more likely to get them fixed. [21:41] <Holgi> ask developers to provide test cases or write them on our own [21:41] <Holgi> ... [21:41] <badshah> Holgi: ok i understand what u mean [21:42] <Mintal> how do i give L-i-FE to my suse ? [21:42] <Holgi> LWFinger: I understand, but often new packages get in quite close to the release [21:42] <badshah> we should communicate with the developers via mailing lists and ask for test-cases, i believe [21:43] <LWFinger> What mailing lists are best? [21:43] <Holgi> I think it depends [21:44] <Holgi> for kde or gnome - their dev list [21:44] <badshah> LWFinger: the desktop ones are of course there (opensuse-kde and opensuse-gnome) [21:44] <LWFinger> Holgi: A repairman has just arrived. Someone else will need to moderate. [21:44] <badshah> then there is the #yast channel for yast related stuff [21:45] <LWFinger> I'll keep the connection running and will see the log. [21:45] <Holgi> LWFinger: ok [21:45] <Holgi> but I think we have to come up with specific areas we want test cases [21:45] <Holgi> my experience is that no developer like to write test cases [21:46] <Holgi> and if you just come up with: "please write some test cases" [21:46] <Holgi> you probably will never get one [21:46] <thsundel> True :) [21:46] <badshah> Holgi: i dont understand how we can decide this at such an early stage, since most of testing targets will be decided by candidate features for 11.3, which are still at infancy presently [21:47] <Holgi> badshah: an example: installation is always same (in general) [21:47] <Holgi> badshah: so we can decide what we want to have in the tset plan [21:47] <Holgi> badshah: and get/create test cases [21:47] <badshah> Holgi: we still have the broad clssificatin for testing via the subteams [21:48] <Holgi> badshah: also automatic testing [21:48] <Holgi> badshah: we can decide which we want to use [21:48] <Holgi> badshah: and prepare them [21:49] <badshah> Holgi: ok, installation will have a few general steps [21:50] <badshah> ok, so we can decide now the general steps that we have to test out irrespective of features [21:50] <bmwiedemann> some day I'd like to do some automated tests for installation. maybe using qemu-kvm with sendkey commands or such [21:51] --> MrKane hat den Kanal betreten (n=Kollstra@86.84-49-64.nextgentel.com). [21:52] <MrKane> has much happened? Idropped out with some pc probs... [21:53] <-- Mintal hat den Server verlassen. [21:53] <badshah> as far as i understand, for installation we should have test-cases of zypper dup from 11.1 and 11.2 [21:54] <Holgi> ok, it does not look like there is much support for my input [21:54] <badshah> Holgi: we should also decide on what to target using automatic testing and what to test out otherwise [21:54] <Holgi> or supports are quite silent ;-) [21:55] <Holgi> for me it looks like there are to much areas were work is possible [21:55] <MrKane> Holgi: can you summarize? I dropped oout a bit [21:55] <Holgi> and I fear we will loose into that [21:55] <Holgi> that's the reason for my suggestion [21:55] <Holgi> to decide where to focus for now [21:55] <Holgi> and start planing [21:56] <Holgi> and I consider planing more that deciding [21:56] <MrKane> ok. I support to focus. [21:56] <Holgi> we should also test upodate [21:56] <bmwiedemann> I did (and found some probs) [21:56] <MrKane> logically install and HW support is my whish for the first focus area [21:57] <MrKane> secondly regression test what should be ok [21:57] <MrKane> third useability [21:57] <MrKane> fourth new functionality [21:58] <Holgi> ok, sounds like an idea [21:58] <Holgi> but how to define that in detail? [21:58] <CupRacer> MrKane: What does "logically install" mean? Could you explain that, please? [21:59] <badshah> usability is something we discussed a little while earlier [22:00] <badshah> new functionality would be having test-cases as soon as new features are deemed done [22:00] <MrKane> Logically : test install and HW support first. Better? [22:00] <CupRacer> MrKane: thanks. :-) [22:00] <MrKane> np [22:01] --> Vojtaeus hat den Kanal betreten (n=vojta@otava-0239.koleje.cuni.cz). [22:01] <-- Kollstrand hat den Server verlassen (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [22:01] <badshah> about installation we should have a test-plan that targets installation media, zypper dup [22:01] <bmwiedemann> badshah: there is an installation test plan [22:01] <Holgi> and all network options [22:01] <badshah> bmwiedemann: for 11.3? [22:01] <bmwiedemann> Holgi: NFS, FTP and such? [22:02] <Holgi> bmwiedemann: yes and ssh, vnc, ... [22:02] <bmwiedemann> quite a lot of variants [22:02] <Vojtaeus> Did anyone try installation with encrypted root? It is tricky... [22:03] <Holgi> Vojtaeus: no [22:03] <CupRacer> Vojtaeus: not yet. [22:03] <Vojtaeus> It works fine - when You do it - but automatic way is useless [22:04] <CupRacer> Vojtaeus: I read that it should be easy now. So it isn't? [22:04] <MrKane> Have everybody tried Testopia? [22:05] <badshah> MrKane: i have [22:05] <Holgi> MrKane: what in detail? [22:05] <Vojtaeus> CupRacer The best way is to add /boot, swap and LVM for / manually, automatic way did strange things. No, it is not good. [22:05] <Vojtaeus> MrKane, Yes [22:05] <badshah> MrKane: not very used to it yet [22:05] <-- bgerber hat den Server verlassen (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [22:05] <badshah> Holgi: i guess for 11.3 we could have the installation plan for 11.2 replicated? [22:05] <bmwiedemann> MrKane: somewhat. e.g. I see 3 test plans for 11.2 which we could need for 11.3 again [22:05] <Holgi> Vojtaeus: did you create a bug report for that? [22:06] <Vojtaeus> MrKane, but I do not understand the communication - when I write a message to someone else test plane, will he receive an e-mail? [22:06] <MrKane> Good. Are we ready to use it for 11.3? I am. I'm no master but I can work with it. [22:06] <Vojtaeus> Holgi No, I have only my real computer to test... [22:06] <Vojtaeus> And I do not have any logs about it... [22:07] <badshah> MrKane: i can use it for 11.3 testing, in fact i believe testopia testing should be a major part of out plans for testing 11.3 [22:08] <MrKane> I agree. [22:08] <Vojtaeus> Testopia looks as good tool, but when there are test planes for every milestone, it is not lots of time to do everything. [22:08] <MrKane> Do we have enough test cases to stert or do we need to make more? [22:09] <Vojtaeus> And when I do test case for, for example, M7, is it relevant one week later for M8? Is there some sort of connection? [22:10] <Holgi> 11.3 installation test plan is ready [22:10] <Holgi> https://bugzilla.novell.com/tr_show_plan.cgi?plan_id=2624 [22:10] <bmwiedemann> Vojtaeus: you can check in which version a test case was tested/failed/passed [22:10] <badshah> Holgi: thanks [22:10] <MrKane> Vojtaeus: can we wait a bit with details? And agree on principles first? [22:10] <Vojtaeus> <MrKane> OK, sorry [22:11] <Holgi> Vojtaeus: not plans for every milestone, just test runs if we want [22:11] <bmwiedemann> was the application/feature test plan split good? [22:11] <MrKane> Vojtaeus: np, just good to do one thing first [22:11] <Holgi> Vojtaeus: probably not necessary to do same test one week later [22:11] <Holgi> Vojtaeus: but it's up to us to decide [22:11] <Vojtaeus> <Holgi> Yes, it sound better then copy-paste most of tests between versions... [22:11] <Holgi> Vojtaeus: you can also create a test run for more milestones [22:12] <Holgi> bmwiedemann: I think so [22:12] <badshah> Holgi: also in regards to general focus of our testing plans, we have subteams for gnome, kde, yast, wireless, sound and installation (+LAMP). this i think clarifies our focus for 11.3 testing? [22:12] <Holgi> badshah: but what are they doing if regard to 11.3? [22:14] <badshah> Holgi: as long as the features for 11.3 are in their infancy, i suggest we keep the same broad objectives for the subteams that we had for 11.2 and that is listed here http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Testing_Core_Team/Subteams [22:15] <badshah> Holgi: these objectives seem quite generic to me [22:15] <Holgi> badshah: sure, but is any team already working on 11.3 test plans/cases? [22:16] <badshah> we can add other objectives here for 11.3 as they occur (for example if kde 4.4 will need some focused testing, we can decide on that later) [22:16] <badshah> Holgi: not yet, but we can begin [22:17] <MrKane> Holgi: as the scope for 11.2 is not clear for me I can not say if we have what we need. [22:17] <Holgi> MrKane: you mean 11.3? [22:17] <badshah> Holgi: in the next meeting we can come ready with test-cases/ideas and we can strat building test-plans [22:17] <MrKane> oops :-) [22:18] <-- CzP hat den Server verlassen (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [22:18] <Holgi> MrKane: ok, that the reason for my approach to start with generic things [22:18] <badshah> Holgi: do you think it would be nice to have test-plans corresponding to each sub-team? [22:19] <Holgi> badshah: no necessary but it's possible [22:19] <bmwiedemann> badshah: IMHO that would be over-kill [22:19] <badshah> bmwiedemann: ok [22:19] <MrKane> Holgi: as stated, I agree. Install and HW support can start immediately [22:19] <Holgi> MrKane: got it ;-) [22:19] <bmwiedemann> features and applications would be good. and we can already fill it with generic things that need to work in every release like "printing" [22:20] <badshah> bmwiedemann: what i was thinking is that we start formulating test-plans now, and if there were test-plans for each sub-team it would streamline the process a bit [22:20] <badshah> but i understand it might be over-doing it [22:21] <Holgi> badshah: so your suggestion is to postpone that to next meeting? [22:22] <MrKane> is it an idea that the next meeting is a Testopia sprint? We work on plans and test cases while chatting on IRC to get comments and help? [22:22] <Holgi> badshah: and everybody should start thinking about/working on it [22:22] <Vojtaeus> I'm little afraid about one risc: there are "big generic tasks" like printing, burning, playing audio CD, ... which should work all the time (like in 11.1...;-), but lots of users became to hate and then abandon the distribution because of cumulation of tiny but little distrubing errors... [22:22] <badshah> Holgi: yes, but also that I wish to come prepared with some test-cases for usability test-plans and others [22:22] <Holgi> badshah: ok [22:22] <Holgi> MrKane: sure [22:24] <badshah> Is there something more we would like to discuss in this meeting? coz it's 3 am here, but i want to stay till the end so i can do the summary and post the transcript on the wiki [22:25] <badshah> btw, here's a preliminary roadmap already in for 11.3 [22:25] <Holgi> does not look like [22:25] <bmwiedemann> badshah: we need to discuss when next meeting shall be [22:25] <badshah> http://en.opensuse.org/Roadmap [22:25] <badshah> yes we need to and really make it a little earlier in the night :) [22:26] <Holgi> badshah: http://en.opensuse.org/Roadmap [22:26] <Holgi> 2 late [22:26] <badshah> weekend's better for the next meeting? [22:27] <thsundel> where in the world are we who is here now? [22:27] <badshah> say 28th Nov? or is that too late? [22:27] <bmwiedemann> thsundel: UTC+1 [22:28] <CupRacer> thsundel: UTC+1 [22:28] <Vojtaeus> UTC +1 [22:28] <Vojtaeus> 28th sdould be OK [22:29] <badshah> UTC+5.30 [22:29] <thsundel> GMT +2 [22:30] * Holgi probably cannot attend at 28th nov [22:30] <Holgi> just before 3:00 UTC [22:30] <MrKane> UTC +1 here [22:30] <badshah> 29th Nov then? [22:30] <Vojtaeus> OK [22:30] <Holgi> badshah: would work [22:31] <bmwiedemann> what time? 19:00 UTC? [22:31] <badshah> gr8, 1800 UTC? [22:31] <MrKane> 29th is best for me. [22:31] <badshah> 29th Nov 1800 UTC? [22:31] <bmwiedemann> OK [22:31] <thsundel> Ok [22:31] <MrKane> ok [22:32] <badshah> decided then: next meeting on 29th Nov at 1800 UTC [22:32] <CupRacer> OK [22:32] <Vojtaeus> OK [22:33] <bmwiedemann> then... what about the bugs remaining in 11.2? I still have a handfull open on my list [22:34] * Vojtaeus is looking forward for some time to feed bugzilla... [22:34] <Holgi> does anybody have the full log of last meeting? [22:35] <Holgi> if yes please replace at http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Testing_Core_Team/Meetings [22:35] <badshah> bmwiedemann: we should discuss about subscribing to the testing repository for official updates for 11.2 in the next meeting as well [22:36] <MrKane> bmwiedemann: retest on 11.2 and write either an update on the bug or write a new on 11.3 [22:36] <badshah> bmwiedemann: i guess you will have to keep pushing the bug assignee for fixes and updates :) [22:37] <bmwiedemann> MrKane: already retested all on 11.2-final. are still there. [22:37] <CupRacer> Do bug assignees have any kind of response / reaction time? [22:38] <badshah> CupRacer: u have to push them a little some times [22:39] <MrKane> bmwiedemann: sorry 11.3 ...... [22:39] <CupRacer> badshah: I don't want to annoy them... they may become offended. ;-) [22:39] <bmwiedemann> hmm... Assignee: bnc-team-gnome [22:40] <bmwiedemann> Holgi: what is "bnc" there ? [22:40] <badshah> CupRacer: pushing has to be subtle, that helps ;) [22:40] <Holgi> bugzilla.novell.com [22:41] <CupRacer> badshah: I'll try this. ;-) [22:41] <badshah> CupRacer: i kept pushing for this feature and the associated bug, even then did not fully work out :( https://features.opensuse.org/306895 [22:44] <CupRacer> badshah: Seems like a long time! I'm only waiting for 2 or 3 days... [22:45] <badshah> CupRacer: yeah, well at least some of it did work out very well (the right click menu in gnome-main-menu for clearing recent documents); i am happy for that [22:48] <CupRacer> badshah: I have a non-runnung mail server right now, waiting for a fix so that users can authenticate again. :-/ [22:48] <MrKane> then I'm off. cya. Remember to use the mailing list if there is anything positive to report also! [22:48] <bmwiedemann> btw: I'm still not sure if the current release-method is good. There is only 3 weeks between RC1 and GM which is the period when developers really fix bugs. [22:49] <badshah> CupRacer: serious issue, you should really keep nagging ;) [22:49] <badshah> bmwiedemann: totally agree [22:50] <badshah> bmwiedemann: we should discuss this on #opensuse-project or factory mailing list [22:50] <bmwiedemann> add to that that testability on some early milestones isnt that good, either... there arent so many features in them anyway [22:50] <-- MrKane hat den Kanal verlassen ("Konversation terminated!"). [22:50] * Vojtaeus would appreciat a "goodzilla" to say "Good job, guys!" to the developers :) [22:50] <bmwiedemann> badshah: OK [22:52] <badshah> bmwiedemann: fyi: http://news.opensuse.org/2009/11/16/reminder-opensuse-project-meeting-wednesday-november-16-2009-at-1600-utc/ [22:52] <CupRacer> badshah: That's my plan now. :) [22:53] <badshah> bmwiedemann: i will try to be there too, and let's add this as a topic here http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/Project_Meeting_2009-11-18 [22:53] <badshah> CupRacer: all the best! [22:54] <CupRacer> badshah: Thanks. [22:54] <bmwiedemann> badshah: appears, I didnt know about those pages. probably because I was not much involved with openSUSE in the past. [22:55] <badshah> bmwiedemann: let's try to convince people that there needs to be more time between RC's and release, right? [22:56] <bmwiedemann> badshah: I have been using Debian at work, and there is unstable(=Factory), testing and stable. and testing is a lot better than factory-snapshot [22:57] <Vojtaeus> It would be nice [22:58] <CupRacer> bmwiedemann: I regularly have a look at http://news.opensuse.org/ . You can get a lot of information there. It has RSS feeds, too. [22:58] <badshah> bmwiedemann: u mean better than oS factory-snapshots? [22:59] <badshah> bmwiedemann: but debian testing is kind of conservative, ain't it? [22:59] <bmwiedemann> badshah: yes. [23:00] <bmwiedemann> there is a policy regulating which packages from unstable can move to testing. something about n days without issues [23:00] <-- Holgi hat den Server verlassen (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). [23:00] <bmwiedemann> while I gather that factory-snapshot is just every package from current factory that happened to build [23:01] <thsundel> Good night! Over and out [23:01] <badshah> bmwiedemann: i believe that is why it is more stable, but of course our factory-snapshots could be better (11.2 development was way smoother though compared to 11.1) [23:01] <-- thsundel hat den Kanal verlassen ("Konversation terminated!"). [23:01] <badshah> bmwiedemann: yes, that is what i think happens [23:04] <bmwiedemann> Q: what are the quality guarantees for factory-snapshots? how many people track factory packages and get bugs fixed before the next factory-snapshot? [23:05] <badshah> ok, so summary is ready http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Testing_Core_Team/Meeting/20091117 [23:05] <bmwiedemann> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian#Development_procedures [23:06] <badshah> need the transcripts from someone [23:08] <CupRacer> badshah: I'm going to paste it. [23:08] <bmwiedemann> gtg. have phun [23:08] <-- bmwiedemann hat den Server verlassen ("Leaving."). [23:09] <Vojtaeus> Testopia does not like Konqueror very much... [23:09] <badshah> CupRacer: thank you