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openSUSE:Testing meeting 20100121

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Agenda

  1. FOSDEM
  2. openSUSE 11.3 Installation Test Plan
  3. Setting up test-cases for openSUSE 11.3
  4. Testing openSUSE 11.2 updates from 'update-test' repository


Transcript

[Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:29:05] <elm> Nice thing; however I am not clear why it is on our agenda for the core test team. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:29:06] <Holgi> but jradzuweit will be there :-) [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:29:27] <k0da> +1 [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:29:32] <elm> perhaps he can report us about some relevant topic. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:29:42] <Holgi> elm: simple question: why not? it's an open-source meeting where a lot of open source developers are taking part [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:29:56] <Holgi> elm: why shouldn't we meet there? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:29:59] <jradzuweit> hi [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:30:14] <elm> ... so that we learn to know each other. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:31:14] <elm> I don`t see how all the testers form Brazil, the USA, South Af. & India should come. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:31:22] <Holgi> k0da: so you don't understand or you will also be there? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:31:37] <k0da> Im plan to be there. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:31:50] <elm> No it is a good tip for anyone interested in open source development [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:31:50] <Holgi> elm: noone has to come, but they that are there anyway can meet [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:31:53] <elm> but nothing more [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:32:56] <Holgi> k0da: good, you already know on which days? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:33:01] <elm> jradzuweit will be the only one there, then. ? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:33:11] <k0da> Holgi, k0da = Dinar ;) [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:33:23] <Holgi> k0da: I know [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:33:30] <elm> ?=Dinar [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:33:37] <jradzuweit> I hope not [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:33:39] <Holgi> k0da: so sat + sun [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:33:45] <k0da> yes. then i know 6-7 Feb [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:33:53] Notify <a class="nick" href="#MrKane">MrKane ist online (irc.freenode.org).</a> [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:33:54] <Holgi> k0da: ok [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:34:08] <MrKane> Hi all, sorry for being late [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:34:43] <elm> we have just talked about the FOSDEM meeting: www.fosdem.org [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:34:48] <Holgi> hi MrKane [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:35:27] <MrKane> FOSDEM is out of my reach. To far from Aendal, Norway :-) [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:35:54] <elm> so if there isn`t anything we shouldn`t miss at FOSDEM let us go on. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:36:04] <elm> let us shortly talk about 11.2 [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:36:08] <elm> 11.2 updates [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:36:17] <elm> 11.2 release flaws [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:36:20] <Holgi> elm: no, that's not on the agenda [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:36:26] <Holgi> next topic is: [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:36:29] <elm> one step in advance [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:36:35] <elm> ok then later [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:36:44] <Holgi> openSUSE 11.3 Installation Test Plan [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:36:54] <elm> what is it? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:37:02] <Holgi> elm: no - I did ask for topics, you did not have any [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:37:16] <Holgi> jradzuweit: you had a suggestion on the list [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:37:18] <elm> It is listed at: Discussion for this week [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:37:21] <elm> http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Testing_Core_Team/Meetings#Next_meeting:_2010-01-21_Time:_1800_UTC [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:37:38] <Holgi> jradzuweit: please go ahead [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:37:56] <jradzuweit> I starte to fill the wiki pages with a common test plan for installation [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:37:59] <MrKane> let's say that if we do a good 11.4 installation test, then we will have less flaws :-) [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:38:12] <jradzuweit> did anybody had a chgance to look into it? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:38:33] <MrMazda> I did a Factory zypper dup on one of my machines only a few days ago [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:38:37] <LWFinger> Looked good to me. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:38:50] <Holgi> jradzuweit: I had [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:39:04] <MrMazda> that lead to https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=571503 [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:39:10] <bugbot> openSUSE bug 571503 in openSUSE 11.3 (Basesystem) "[MC] bad timestamps on files copied from legacy LANMAN shares" [Major,New] [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:39:15] <Holgi> jradzuweit: and I think it's a good idea [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:40:09] <jradzuweit> I came up with this, because of the discussion on 11.2 testing and what I have seen on the factory mailiing list [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:40:28] <jradzuweit> the developers ask always for the same information [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:40:55] <elm> what is a good idea? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:42:07] <elm> jradzuweit: could you give us a link to your test plan [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:42:13] * bmwiedemann now here, too [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:42:20] <LWFinger> The testing plan emphasizes full installations. Good as I missed 11.2 bugs due to updating. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:42:30] <jradzuweit> http://en.opensuse.org/Testing/Installation [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:43:10] <LWFinger> For 11.3, I plan to do updates on one machine and full installs on another. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:43:19] <elm> which bugs have been missed due to lacking installation testing? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:43:19] <k0da> What about to introduce localization testing? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:43:27] <Holgi> jradzuweit: I did add a link to it to the agenda [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:43:30] <jradzuweit> LWFinger : just started maybe someone can do the same on upgrade [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:43:59] <LWFinger> The missed bugs were failure to set up routing, and failure to update resolv.conf. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:44:15] <k0da> Because localization of installation process is impossible to fix via maintenance update [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:44:44] <MrKane> What is the advantage of having the test cases on the wiki in sted of the tool? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:44:57] <elm> they are more coarse grained [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:45:17] <jradzuweit> McKane : Just as a starting point [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:45:22] <LWFinger> jradzuweit: I'll take a crack at it. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:45:24] <elm> the testtopia test plans do only contain very specific mainly newly implemented features [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:45:48] <MrKane> jradzuweit : ok [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:45:55] <elm> Yes, we need some coarser grained testing framework. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:46:10] <jradzuweit> we can transfer it to testopia later [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:46:20] <MrKane> elm : testopia is what we make it. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:46:30] <elm> ? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:46:43] <elm> testtopia does only contain singleton test cases [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:47:02] <elm> no coarser grained testing areas [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:47:06] <elm> does it? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:47:08] <elm> . [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:47:12] <elm> f.i. no one seems having tested to print in 11.2 [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:47:26] <bmwiedemann> elm: it has test-plans and test-runs as groups of test cases [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:47:29] <elm> otherwise that can`t be possible that cups simply does not start in GM [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:47:43] <jradzuweit> I had two objectives in mind [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:47:47] <bmwiedemann> elm: I printed on remote cups [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:48:04] <elm> Yes, but we need a course grained full re-test on RC-last [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:48:16] <jradzuweit> 1. everybody was confused where to start testing [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:48:17] <elm> bmwiedemann: how could that have worked [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:48:33] <jradzuweit> 2. involve the community in testing [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:48:55] <elm> involve the community in testing: how? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:48:57] <bmwiedemann> elm: echo ServerName printserver > /etc/cups/client.conf [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:49:07] <MrKane> jradzuweit : ok. Good points both of them. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:49:16] <jradzuweit> to give them a rough guideline for running tests [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:49:22] <elm> I do not have a special print server [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:49:32] <jradzuweit> and where to look in case of failure [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:49:33] <elm> and 99% of all users do not have one either [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:50:10] <elm> send all of them to bugzilla by a message right after installation [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:50:39] <Holgi> jradzuweit: as I said - I think it's a good idea [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:50:44] <MrKane> elm: Testopia installation test plan https://bugzilla.novell.com/tr_show_plan.cgi?plan_id=2624 [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:50:50] <elm> the cups error has somehow flawed the whole GM [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:50:51] <Holgi> jradzuweit: is there anything we can help with? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:50:55] <bmwiedemann> elm: you mean when someone installs factory or RC, he should see "please help testing - read =>here<= how" ? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:51:06] <elm> yes [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:51:20] <elm> perhaps the only way if our distro stays as buggy as this [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:51:30] <elm> . [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:51:45] <elm> ... and there has been another really nasty bug in GM [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:51:46] <jradzuweit> Holgi: someone should take care of the Gnome part [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:51:47] <bmwiedemann> could probably be integrated into the KDE Desktop where it shows other stuff, too [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:51:51] <elm> kmenu stays emptyy [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:51:59] <Holgi> jradzuweit: ok, any volunteers? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:52:06] * k0da GNOME user [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:52:21] <elm> which horrible errors were in the Gnome release? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:52:23] <Holgi> jradzuweit: let's see who's in the gnome sub-group ;-) [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:52:57] <MrKane> elm : Please be constructive and focus on the testing to come [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:53:28] <elm> NO, we need to learn from the errors commited in 11.2 GM!! [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:53:34] <elm> I definitely disagree [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:53:39] <elm> we must not go on like this [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:53:52] <elm> otherwise the distro is going to loose many users [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:53:54] <elm> . [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:54:09] <elm> If I install KDE and kmenu is empty on a fresh installation [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:54:12] <bmwiedemann> I agree that 11.2 had a many annoying bugs that should rather not have slipped through. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:54:21] <elm> then I would simply try another distro [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:54:52] <bmwiedemann> but one way to improve on that is by involving more testers in 11.3-MS/RC cycle [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:55:10] <MrKane> elm : To get to a good distro we must test well early in the release cycle. What's your contribution to get there? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:55:22] <elm> Yes we should perhaps gain new testers as others have gone. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:56:19] <Holgi> jradzuweit: Atri Bhattacharya, Spencer French, Kayo Hamid [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:56:20] <bmwiedemann> sometimes I got the impression that maintainers do not read bug reports on Factory/MS. Of course this causes some frustration for testers, too as they will have dups more often. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:56:25] <MrKane> Agreed, we can definately be vocal in linux foras to gain testers. I'm not sure if that is the core testing teams job though? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:56:48] <elm> but let me say one more thing about the kmenu-empty problem [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:56:54] <elm> the problem was reported [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:56:58] <elm> a fix was known [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:57:12] <elm> but nobody felt responsible to distribute the fix [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:57:18] <elm> so that the bug went into GM [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:57:45] <MrKane> Ok, not good. But I do not see how this fora can help that? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:57:49] <bmwiedemann> coolo should be responsible. or redirect this task [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:58:00] <k0da> jradzuweit, i can help with GNOME part [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:58:16] <jradzuweit> K0da : cool [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:58:30] <elm> It is no good motivation for testers if we even have to test whether our fixes have been distributed [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:58:36] <elm> Holgi: any suggestion? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:58:48] <jradzuweit> I will do the default desktop aka KDE [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:59:04] <Holgi> jradzuweit: ;-) [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:59:28] <bmwiedemann> elm: I keep 1 vote on bugs that I have submitted so that I can find them later on https://bugzilla.novell.com/votes.cgi?action=show_user and remind people if they forget [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:59:49] <bmwiedemann> unluckily, I only have 20 votes per product. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [19:59:54] <Holgi> jradzuweit: anything more to the install test plan? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:00:18] <MrKane> One way to improve testing is to limit the scope. Define what is meant to be perfect, good, not so good etc [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:00:25] <Holgi> bmwiedemann: you know "my reports"? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:00:30] <jradzuweit> not yet [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:00:43] <Holgi> ok, let's move on to next topic then [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:00:55] <elm> what topic was this? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:01:03] <Holgi> Setting up test-cases for testing openSUSE 11.3 [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:01:16] <Holgi> it's from badshah - but he is not here [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:01:41] <Holgi> anybody know about that topic or wants to take it? ;-) [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:01:45] <jradzuweit> do we have a feature list? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:02:04] <Holgi> jradzuweit: feature.opensuse.org [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:02:07] <MrKane> any update on what is comming in the releases? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:02:35] <Holgi> jradzuweit: sorry - features.opensuse.org [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:02:42] <Holgi> MrKane: should be today [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:02:49] <Holgi> MrKane: but does not look like [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:04:16] <jradzuweit> which are in focus candidate or done? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:05:04] <Holgi> MrKane: nope - coolo wrote he will release on factory [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:05:18] <Holgi> MrKane: I will check if Milestone 1 is already available [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:05:58] <MrKane> Holgi: ok [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:08:33] <MrKane> For me it's important to have a release to install from. I'm not to keen on zypper dup testing. The reason is that I believe most average users will do an upgrade or new install from some kind of media. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:09:12] <LWFinger> MrKane: I agree [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:09:40] <Holgi> MrKane: I'm not sure since I could not find an official image [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:09:55] <Holgi> MrKane: there is just a factory image from today [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:10:07] <jradzuweit> MrKane : Maybe upgrade only for LAMP server? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:10:41] <Holgi> ok, let's look at the other topics: [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:10:58] <k0da> mayby my previous question fits current topic? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:11:19] <MrKane> zypper dup is nice, but it's a pro tool. I like to focus on getting a wider acceptance for Linux (and in that respect openSUSE) [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:11:21] <Holgi> Testing openSUSE 11.2 updates when they appear in the update-test repository [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:11:26] <Holgi> is also from badsha [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:11:26] <k0da> anybody interesting in localization quality? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:11:32] <Holgi> so we can skip that as well [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:11:44] <Holgi> anythink to add? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:11:48] <jradzuweit> k0da : localization [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:11:51] <Holgi> k0da: you want? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:11:58] <k0da> Holgi, sure [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:12:04] <Holgi> k0da: go ahead [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:12:11] <MrKane> Please notify the mailing list of any media releases :-) [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:12:17] <k0da> Holgi, by statistics every user install in their language [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:12:46] <Holgi> MrKane: sure, as I do always [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:12:52] <MrKane> thx. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:13:08] <Holgi> k0da: right, what is your point [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:13:09] <k0da> End statistics shows us that localization important for us since first three place is Germany USA and Russia [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:13:52] <k0da> Since we cannot fix installation image by maintenance update, lets introduce test plan for localization [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:13:57] <jradzuweit> k0da : Russia ? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:14:10] <k0da> en.opensuse.org/Statistics [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:14:27] <k0da> jradzuweit, big place holder on world map [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:14:28] <k0da> ;) [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:15:16] <jradzuweit> yupp [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:15:34] <k0da> Also from translator pov there just string that needed to be translated. No big picture how it should looks like. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:16:03] <k0da> So we need to test/proofread [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:16:05] <jradzuweit> but for localization, the small ones are more interesting [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:16:22] <jradzuweit> better localization, more users [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:16:45] <LWFinger> Even small places need test/proof [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:16:58] <k0da> jradzuweit, thats's the main point. First impression is major. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:17:11] <MrKane> Frustration blurp : http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=548243#c9 not critical bug when you can't boot? After 3 months..... Well at least it's not forgotten. Sorry.... [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:17:15] <bugbot> openSUSE bug 548243 in openSUSE 11.2 (YaST2) "Boot from degraded RADI1 fails on RC1" [Major,New] [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:17:15] <LWFinger> Are translations done in progress, or at the end? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:17:16] <k0da> but do we have any defined process for this? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:17:53] <k0da> Every bug in translation should be tested if it actually fixed [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:18:07] <jradzuweit> what about 11.2 MS and Rc bugs, should they retested? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:18:23] <Holgi> k0da: what is the usual approach in testing that? install two machines at the same time, one in english, one in other language to be able to compare? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:18:41] <Holgi> k0da: maybe two virtual machines!?! [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:19:09] <k0da> Holgi, no, why we should compare to english version. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:19:26] <Holgi> k0da: but how does this work? how to compare? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:19:46] <k0da> Holgi, we need to be sure if text (installion help) understandable to end user [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:20:23] <k0da> translation change log should point that this typo or mistranslation fixed? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:20:42] <MrKane> k0da : I see your point. I always test in my language and check as many points in the instal that I can figure [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:20:53] <Noctambulist> k0da: we need to be sure it's still the same [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:20:58] <Holgi> k0da: so you look directly into the translated files not testing the installation and read what's there? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:21:43] <k0da> Holgi, no, no we need to pass whole installation process. No msg strings [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:22:11] <k0da> Holgi, yes, but better to have test plan or wiki page for this. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:22:57] <k0da> I'm going to create workflow for this at least for Russian. If it is interesting i can write in english [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:24:04] <Holgi> k0da: so you already have a test plan for that? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:24:17] <k0da> in my mind, yes [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:24:26] <MrKane> k0da : please write it in English also [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:25:39] <k0da> MrKane, k [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:26:28] <elm> better translation may be a nice thing [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:26:32] <bmwiedemann> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=556868 apropos translations testing. this one slipped through in 11.2-GM [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:26:36] <bugbot> openSUSE bug 556868 in openSUSE 11.2 (Translations) "errors in yast2/installer German RAID strings" [Minor,Resolved: fixed] [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:26:53] <elm> but if kmenu is empty that does not help [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:27:16] <elm> there are less 11.2 users than 10.3-11.1 [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:27:20] <elm> no good sign [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:27:21] <jradzuweit> elm : true [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:27:27] <elm> at: http://en.opensuse.org/Statistics [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:27:47] <elm> so what to do about it Holgi? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:28:20] <elm> should we regularely have a look whether an update has already been provided to complain if it hasn`t? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:28:34] <elm> if yes - then how? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:28:57] <elm> shouldn`t we perhaps have a resolution mode 'pending update' [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:29:10] <elm> instead of 'closed fixed' ? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:30:06] <MrKane> elm : Linux users do not upgrade fast. And although you have had some bad experince, the reviews for 11.2 is generally very good. At least for the KDE version that I know. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:30:16] <bmwiedemann> elm: there is RESOLVED FIXED and VERIFIED FIXED [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:30:28] <elm> ?: VERIFIED FIXED [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:30:46] <Holgi> k0da: are you done? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:30:46] <MrKane> I gotta go to build our kitchen :-) GL and good night. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:30:58] <elm> gn8 [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:30:59] <k0da> yes if there no question about this. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:31:01] <Holgi> bye MrKane [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:31:13] <LWFinger> bye MrKane [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:31:23] <Noctambulist> gn MrKane [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:31:24] <Holgi> k0da: then ask for questions ;-) [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:31:31] <elm> How to mark that something requires an update? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:32:03] <k0da> elm, invite maintenance team in bug report [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:32:14] <jradzuweit> bye MrKane [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:32:21] <elm> Yes, we probably need to do this. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:32:26] <Holgi> elm: convince developer [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:33:03] <Holgi> elm: to solve your bug report [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:33:21] <k0da> ah i though bug already solved ;) [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:33:38] <k0da> Holgi, i have no questions. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:33:54] <elm> yes, but I don`t always know when to do [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:34:19] <elm> whether an update has been distributed [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:34:31] <Holgi> ok, looks like we are done with the agenda [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:34:58] <Holgi> let's do another doodle poll for next meeting oder decide a date today? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:34:59] <elm> Holgi: what do you think about a NEED UPDATE resolution form [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:35:05] <bmwiedemann> Holgi: I saw a tool named "swamp" be used in update-tracking [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:35:22] <jradzuweit> 225 open bugs from the MS phase [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:35:56] <Noctambulist> elm: that would mix package status and it's delivery to you... [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:35:58] <Holgi> bmwiedemann: I guess this is just for tracking updates [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:36:10] <elm> mix package status and it's delivery: whyy [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:36:21] <bmwiedemann> we can also do another meeting next Thu? maybe 1h later? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:36:33] <Holgi> bmwiedemann: but nothing which decides if something will be updated or not [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:36:56] <Holgi> bmwiedemann: isn't that too early? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:37:17] <jradzuweit> bmwiedemann : no problem, I am online anyway [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:37:19] <bmwiedemann> I thought, we could exchange first experiences from MS1 then [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:37:37] <bmwiedemann> or is ML better for that? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:38:15] <Holgi> bmwiedemann: it's "just" Milestone 1 [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:38:25] <Holgi> bmwiedemann: usually there is lot of new stuff not in [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:38:45] <bmwiedemann> so no good testing yet? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:38:46] <Holgi> bmwiedemann: so bug reports just make sense for high level problems [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:39:00] <bmwiedemann> OK [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:39:06] <Holgi> bmwiedemann: sure, but do not report a missing dot [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:39:36] <Holgi> bmwiedemann: milestone 1 like an alpha [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:40:26] <elm> no improvement on update provision? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:40:34] <elm> what about the maintenence team? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:40:41] <bmwiedemann> so have a later date for next meeting via doodle? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:40:55] <Holgi> bmwiedemann: agreed :-) [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:41:16] <bmwiedemann> who is the maintenance team? [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:41:34] <k0da> elm, if bug fixed and online update required invite maintenance team there (add in CC maintenance@opensuse.org) [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:42:12] <elm> I usually expect that an update is provided as soon as the bug is marked as closed - fixed. [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:42:22] <elm> However this does not always seem the case [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:42:50] <k0da> elm, update also need QA [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:42:51] <elm> to me the easiest way to monitor would be a NEEDUPDATE status [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:43:02] <bmwiedemann> I think, different people handle bug statusses somewhat different [Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010] [20:43:25] <Holgi> ok, so thanks everybody for attending - meeting closed