KDE/Meetings/2008 07 09-transcript

[Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:07:04] Topic dirk sets the channel topic to "Welcome to the openSUSE KDE Community Meeting!". [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:07:04] Join Localhorst has joined this channel (n=Localhor@nat/novell/x-b40851c95775261a). [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:07:47] <wstephenson> Localhorst: you're exemplary [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:08:06] <Beineri> Localhorst: shouldn't you be notlocalhorst? :-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:08:30] <Beineri> Localhorst: or feeling now at home in new office? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:08:35] <Localhorst> no, I'm in a lokal [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:08:43] <wstephenson> he's still in the czech place, that i just left [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:09:02] <Localhorst> right [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:09:05] <dirk> so, the current list of topics [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:09:11] <dirk> * old action items [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:09:34] <dirk> * Review http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Ideas for openSUSE 11.1 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:09:38] <dirk> * Q&A [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:10:00] <dirk> anything else? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:10:27] <wstephenson> livecd thing we mentioned earlier? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:10:49] <Juippis> I have to ask: Is KDE4 a resource hog? I mean I like using KDE3 and it's lightweight enough [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:10:53] <Juippis> but does KDE4 require more? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:11:28] <Seli> Juippis: probably no, but nobody has really measured that yet [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:11:29] <wstephenson> Juippis: we're in a meeting, wait for the Q&A [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:11:36] <mrdocs> Juippis: it is a tiny bit OT at the moment, but the answer is not erally [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:11:56] <dirk> doesn't look like, so ... [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:11:59] <dirk> * old action items [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:12:07] <dirk> http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Meetings/20080625 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:12:11] Quit stittel has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:13:01] <Juippis> wstephenson: oh damn, I just step in. Sorry [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:13:03] <dirk> * add packaging guideline for kde4 packages [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:13:14] <dirk> Juippis: the short answer is: try the live cd :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:13:22] <dirk> wstephenson: I'll add livecd before Q&A [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:14:20] <wstephenson> ok [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:14:28] <wstephenson> packaging guidelines, who owns that? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:14:57] <mrdocs> wstephenson KDE specific stuff is not yours :-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:15:00] * mrdocs hides [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:15:20] <mrdocs> correction wstephenson KDE specific stuff is not yours  ? :-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:15:20] <wstephenson> mrdocs: dirk has a mean right hook, watch out ;) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:15:31] * mrdocs grins [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:15:50] <dirk> okay, still no takers.. delay it once more [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:16:01] <dirk> * wiki page for KDE4 testing (bille) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:16:11] <mrdocs> il will help proof edit that if someone starts a draft [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:16:35] <wstephenson> dirk: still todo - the update to the building kde4 page last time took longer than expected [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:17:02] <dirk> * write rpm QA (mrdocs) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:17:16] <mrdocs> in progress at last :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:17:23] <wstephenson> cool [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:17:37] <dirk> mrdocs: can you paste the link to the current state? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:17:40] * mrdocs will want a critique when done [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:17:57] <mrdocs> http://en.opensuse.org/Doing_A_Self_Check/QA_for_RPMS [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:18:08] Quit alphad has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:18:26] <mrdocs> some of the stuff i have learned to do separately from any distro requirements [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:18:41] <wstephenson> rpmlint? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:18:51] <mrdocs> that's later [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:18:55] <dirk> mrdocs: can you explain more what you meant before regarding trust system? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:19:44] <mrdocs> one of the criteria which I hope gets added to the trust system is having others doing gpg signed reviews of other's packages [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:19:55] <mrdocs> thus [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:20:36] <mrdocs> someone who is well known to be a solid experience packager like yaloki can do a review of one of my packages and that makes it more likely to get a higher rating [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:21:05] <wstephenson> gpg signed md5sum list of the package contents at that time/revision? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:21:23] <mrdocs> i think this is not only good for package QA, but also it is a chance for mentoring newer packagers [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:21:49] <mrdocs> i so much wish there was something when i started to do rpms by learning on my own [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:22:00] <mrdocs> wstephenson yep that is part of it [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:22:54] <mrdocs> IMO fedora has got this sorted pretty well and there are things which they do which could be incorporated into OBS [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:23:12] <mrdocs> even a special bugzilla category for packages wating review for example [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:23:37] <mrdocs> dirk: that give you an idea what i meant ? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:23:45] * mrdocs shuts up for a bit [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:25:12] <dirk> mrdocs: yep, I think it is a sensible idea [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:25:27] <dirk> I've also pushed a bit into that direction regarding the trust system draft [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:25:39] <dirk> however didn't get feedback so far, I guess I'll try a bit more :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:25:56] <mrdocs> i need to reply to that on the project ml too with these thoughts [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:26:01] <dirk> I'm not sure if we want to use rpm / gpg sigs for that [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:26:17] <wstephenson> how so? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:26:28] <dirk> I guess it would be good enough to have rating , or alternatively packages handled in a high-trust project [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:26:38] <dirk> where submissions are reviewed by the group of high-trust people [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:27:14] <wstephenson> depends if you want an informal 'expression of trust' or a hard 'this version was reviewed by...' [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:27:58] <dirk> mrdocs: can you sum up (on the page) a bit on what fedora does and why you think that is important? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:28:05] <dirk> or did you do that already somewhere? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:28:40] <mrdocs> yeah it is to be added and i will also mention these kinds of steps are part of becoming an accepted packager for debian as well [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:28:59] <mrdocs> that is very much a draft and much to be added for sure [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:29:18] <dirk> okay :) thanks for thinking about that [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:29:29] <dirk> do you have already some thoughts on how we could use/reuse that for KDE related packages? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:29:59] <dirk> should we try to setup peer reviews of kde:community packages? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:30:40] <dirk> I guess things will be much easier with hermes notifications [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:30:52] <mrdocs> that might be a good idea as an experiment and -kde list now is low enough traffic to tolerate doing the review submissions [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:30:53] <dirk> then interested parties could review commits as they happen [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:31:54] <dirk> would you suggest this as a barrier for projects to be accepted into kde:community? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:32:11] <wstephenson> suggest/consider [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:32:33] <mrdocs> seeing it is is a listed repo in yast something to ponder yes for sure [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:33:17] <mrdocs> dirk: how does this work within Suse with new hires ? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:33:29] <mrdocs> just curious [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:33:39] <dirk> well, things are much simpler there :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:33:59] <dirk> new hires get a vocal training usually and the link to the suse packaging guidelines (up in the wiki) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:34:12] <dirk> however the setup is peer-reviewed within suse [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:34:26] <dirk> nobody can do any change to the distribution without it being reviewed by people being employed for just doing that [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:34:29] <dirk> the autobuild group [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:34:45] <dirk> and they're pretty good at proofreading stuff, especially when it comes from a "new" person [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:34:58] <dirk> and submissions are frequently rejected (also from oldies) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:34:59] <kdepepo> intrusion alert :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:35:47] <dirk> another step is that new code cannot be introduced before it wasn't acknowledged by the novell legal group [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:35:54] <dirk> they review file by file for copyright/licensing issues [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:36:27] <kdepepo> I just hope submitting packages does not get more complicated... in ubunuts launchpad, you have to frickle with gpg just to upload a source package for building. [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:36:29] <dirk> this is why it takes sometimes weeks for changes to appear in factory, or package changes being added (due to the review porcess) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:36:50] <dirk> kdepepo: +1 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:37:12] <mrdocs> kdepepo: interesting [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:37:40] <kdepepo> I would rather like someone reviewing my stuff, and "sign" it, then doing such things myself. [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:37:47] <kdepepo> than [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:37:48] <dirk> I think however its a good concern from mrdocs to be voluntarily ensuring a certain level of quality for KDE:Community [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:37:52] <dirk> kdepepo: in any case you can upload something in home:foo and not bother with any of that [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:39:42] <dirk> my suggestion would be.. participate in the trust discussion happening on opensuse-buildservice@ [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:39:54] <kdepepo> dirk, yes, there needs some quality review in official repos, sure [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:40:02] <dirk> mrdocs: you want to further enhance the wiki page you started right? so we keep the action item as in-progress [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:40:15] <mrdocs> yes.. it is WIP [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:40:22] <dirk> mrdocs: would you like to kickstart a discussion about criterias for kde:community inclusion? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:40:29] <dirk> .. on the mailing list [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:40:39] <mrdocs> yep can do [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:41:06] <dirk> on one side I would like more things to be in kde:community, on the other side I see the danger of it becoming no longer useful because too many people have access to all the packages in there [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:41:25] <dirk> ideally there should be a group of people feeling responsible for kde:community [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:41:45] <dirk> * # organize scratch space for bug triage images, WIP (jpr) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:41:56] <dirk> jpr not here today again (travel), still wip afaik [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:42:03] <dirk> I'll ping him once he's back [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:42:09] <dirk> okay, done with old action items [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:42:15] <kdepepo> people could build stuff in "home:" then ask someone to review and move it to community. [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:42:22] <mrdocs> kdepepo: exactly [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:42:28] <dirk> * Review http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Ideas for openSUSE 11.1 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:42:44] <dirk> kdepepo: the question is "who to ask" and who volunteers for reviewing [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:42:53] <dirk> kdepepo: changes can be done via submitrequests for example [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:42:55] <Beineri> http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Ideas/11.1 os the more comprehensive page imo [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:42:55] <kdepepo> dirk, a mailing list? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:43:14] <dirk> kdepepo: ever heard the silent echo of a mailing list? ;) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:43:23] <kdepepo> hm :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:43:39] <Seli> why do we have two ideas pages? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:43:43] Quit Localhorst has left this server ("jmIrc destroyed by the OS"). [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:43:46] <dirk> I hope the situation improves with hermes, so that submission requests/changes are perhaps mailed automatically to the mailing list [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:43:53] * dirk has no idea :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:43:53] <Beineri> Seli: dunno :-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:44:29] <dirk> it was started by Decriptor [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:44:36] <dirk> and by Enderandrew [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:44:38] <yaloki> kdepepo, mrdocs: yeah.. IMHO we should definitely move a lot out of home: projects [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:44:41] <dirk> are they here ? :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:45:16] <mrdocs> yaloki: it also goes hand in hand with reorganizing the top level projects in OBS [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:46:00] <Beineri> he even says that he started off by copying the other idea page: http://forums.opensuse.org/general/388836-opensuse-wiki-kde-ideas-11-1-a.html [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:47:18] <Seli> can we scratch one? two seems to be a one too many [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:47:19] <dirk> I think the Ideas/11.1 page is pretty good [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:47:53] <Seli> we can move things into Ideas/11.2 when it's clear the rest doesn't make it into 11.1 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:48:25] <kdepepo> KDE/Ideas is a subset of KDE/Ideas/11.1, so the former should be deleted. [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:48:36] <Seli> or whatever ... but I've just edited one and don't feel like doing that always twice [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:48:49] <Beineri> not delete, rather #redirectKDE/Ideas/11.1 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:49:20] <Beineri> KDE/Ideas was the one mentioned in my call for ideas imo [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:49:28] <dirk> I agree.. anyone wants to proofread that any topic in /KDE/Ideas is on the other page as well and redirect it? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:49:33] <Seli> Beineri: it was - can you do the redirect? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:49:41] <kdepepo> except for "Other" [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:49:44] <Seli> ok, or that :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:49:52] Quit metavoid has left this server ("Ex-Chat"). [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:50:00] <yaloki> mrdocs: yes, but I don't think anyone wants to do that [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:50:10] <mrdocs> yaloki: i know :S [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:50:20] <kdepepo> maybe make the former "read only" until everything has been move to 11.1 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:50:21] <Beineri> cb400f: most entries are of you, can you check what's not on Ideas/11.1 and then make it a redirect? :-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:52:21] <Seli> is there any plan for setting priorities for the ideas? 'What about an openSUSE specific screensaver? ' feels very 'only if we get really bored' [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:52:28] <dirk> anyone wants to be fallback in case cb00f is not around? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:52:43] * Beineri will do if cb400f doesn't [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:52:48] <dirk> Beineri: thanks! [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:53:10] <dirk> Seli: I think we should talk about it and then update the wiki page accordingly [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:53:57] <Beineri> together with a volunteer name to do it ;-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:54:22] <Seli> so everything will get something like (P2) at the beginning? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:54:34] <dirk> good idea [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:54:42] <dirk> http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Ideas/11.1 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:54:49] <dirk> * * Target KDE 4.1.1 and KDE 3.5.10 releases [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:54:56] <dirk> I'd say thats a P1, right? :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:55:14] <Seli> yes, but that's not really an idea as such :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:55:15] * Beineri wants 4.1.3 or higher though :-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:55:22] <dirk> * Make it very easy and automatic for the user to send useful crash report [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:55:29] <Seli> WIP [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:55:39] <dirk> yep, openSUSE SoC project [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:55:39] <Seli> incidentally [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:55:44] <rabauke> that involves providing debug packages [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:55:58] <Seli> really? well, I almost have drkonqi patches for that [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:56:12] <dirk> debuginfo packages are currently provided for 11.0 and Factory [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:56:26] <Beineri> rabauke: debug packages for updates are a sad topic ;-( [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:56:31] <dirk> the only point is the "make it easy to figure out which one is needed". [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:56:52] <dirk> one interesting thing to note here is that it is possible to specifiy the requires for debuginfo packages [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:56:58] <Beineri> it comes up every 2nd months or so, bug 406557 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:57:00] <bugbot> openSUSE bug 406557 in openSUSE 11.0 (Maintenance) "Missing debuginfo packages for updated packages" [Major,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=406557 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:57:16] <dirk> so installing e.g. kdebase4-debuginfo also automatically installs kdelibs4-debuginfo and libqt4-debuginfo [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:57:52] <dirk> Seli: can you shortly describe what drkonqi patches you're working on for that? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:57:55] <Beineri> dirk: it is possible? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:58:06] <Seli> dirk: what I (almost) have is that drkonqi launches a script and gives it exactly the list of binaries that are involved in the backtrace [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:58:06] <dirk> Beineri: yes, I even did it already somewhere [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:58:07] * dirk looks [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:58:27] <Seli> dirk: so the script just finds what provides those (that's possible even without having them installed, right?) and installs it [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:58:52] <dirk> Seli: excellent. unfortunately metavoid just left [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:58:56] <Seli> dirk: it's now mostly missing only the actual launching of the script, the script, and the 'do you want to' dialog [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:59:11] <dirk> Seli: he has this on todo just this week as part of the SoC project [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:59:24] <Seli> dirk: I'll send a mail about it to kde-core-devel@, I'd like to see that in 4.1.1 too [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:59:31] <dirk> Seli: I'll hook you up with him per email and you exchange patches? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:59:39] <Seli> dirk: ok [Wed Jul 9 2008] [20:59:48] <Seli> dirk: the soc is not kde-specific, is it? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:00:07] <dirk> Seli: excellent [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:00:25] <dirk> Seli: not entirely.. the plan was to provide a solution for all apps crashing, but also a hook for the existing crash handlers [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:00:40] <Seli> ok, then it's not duplicated work [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:01:01] <dirk> Seli: so there would be a non-interactive part (automated backtrace generation and collecting system information), and a interactive one, where people would install debuginfo packages before the backtrace is unwinded [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:01:56] <dirk> jan's work will allow to unwind the stack without debuginfo's being installed (not sure if it ever ends up in factory though) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:01:56] <dirk> metavoid: are you around? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:02:16] Quit sjones has left this server ("Mongo only pawn... in game of life."). [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:02:36] <dirk> okay, we're stuck.. [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:02:48] <dirk> * Consolidate and reorganize KDE repositorie [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:03:01] <dirk> I think there is some confusion about the :Factory repository [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:03:20] <metavoid> dirk: yes [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:03:22] <dirk> but it goes in line with me wanting to get rid of :Extra-Apps and Adrian who suggested on the mailing list to get rid of the :Community variants [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:03:36] <dirk> metavoid: hey, read the backlog :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:04:12] <Beineri> dirk: the repository descriptions (also seen on repodata/ view) can be undoubtly improved [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:04:52] <metavoid> dirk: ok [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:05:10] <Beineri> but other than that he point/idea is void [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:05:16] <metavoid> unwinding the stack might be really helpful [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:06:13] * Beineri mumbles that people should sign their idea with name [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:06:14] <dirk> any objections to consolidating the :Community repositores into one KDE:Community? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:06:17] <dirk> like Adrian suggested? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:06:21] <dirk> http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kde/2008-07/msg00000.html [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:06:21] <dirk> metavoid: did you do anything regarding drkonqi integration already? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:06:22] <dirk> or any plans? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:06:33] Quit Monex has left this server ("Konversation terminated!"). [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:06:37] <Seli> Beineri: that should be added as a rule to the ideas page [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:06:47] <dirk> Beineri: any comment regarding the KDE:Community consolidation? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:06:50] <Beineri> dirk: you only have the possible problems with plasmoids that exist both for KDE 4.0 and KDE 4.1 plasma... [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:07:04] <Beineri> versions [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:07:20] <dirk> Beineri: could be solved by disabling the build and renaming the obs dir [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:07:38] <dirk> like foo-plasmoid-4.0 containing foo-plasmoid.spec and foo-plasmoid-4.1 containing foo-plasmoid.spec [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:07:52] <dirk> I'm not sure if we have any real occassions of that though [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:08:07] <metavoid> dirk: nope, but for me this isssue looks like of the least priority [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:08:19] <Beineri> Seli: imo I added it to the KDE/Ideas page but the hint got lost during merge/rewrite? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:08:34] <Beineri> no, it's still there [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:08:34] <metavoid> dirk: I'd better turn those simple crahs handlers off [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:08:54] <dirk> metavoid: okay, how about you and Seli talk a bit about that and you do a report in the next irc meeting? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:09:22] <dirk> metavoid: disabling them for user installations: perhaps yes imho, but developers might still want to have it [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:09:39] <metavoid> fine, surely will do, but not tonight, I'm a bit busy right now [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:09:47] <dirk> no problem, two weeks of time :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:09:55] <dirk> AI: metavoid: drkonqi/apport plans [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:12:25] <dirk> okay.. /me searches for a next idea [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:12:29] <Beineri> dirk: I can't think of other reasons against [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:12:36] <metavoid> dirk: could you please send me your pros about saving drkonqi crash handler via email? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:12:42] <Beineri> (except people have to change their repos again ;-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:13:24] <dirk> one of the suggeestions is http://kdemod.ath.cx/ for KDE3 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:13:29] <dirk> any opinions for that? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:13:35] <dirk> eh, about that [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:14:01] <Beineri> jumping? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:14:20] <dirk> Beineri: pardon? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:14:26] <dirk> metavoid: will do [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:14:36] <Beineri> dirk: seems you skipped two points [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:14:47] <dirk> well, they were [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:14:57] <dirk> * popular and useful service menu additions on kde-look.org [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:15:10] <dirk> -> needs more input [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:15:21] <dirk> and [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:15:30] <Beineri> yeah, requester don't by shy to start the discussion :-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:15:32] <dirk> * kdm + thinkfinger, which is upstreamed in KDE 4.1 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:15:44] <wstephenson> looks like there are some few useful things in kdemod [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:15:47] <dirk> so we will have very visible integration in 11.1. [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:16:17] <dirk> Beineri: I don't see much value in discussing it.. we should follow up it but at the moment the point is not detailed enough to be discussed imho [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:16:50] <Beineri> dirk: fine for me, so just say what you said "needs more input" :-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:17:13] <dirk> Beineri: you could have said that as well :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:17:21] <Beineri> about kdemod, those seem to be all KDE3 stuff - and we will not patch or KDE3 anymore? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:17:23] <dirk> wstephenson: for example? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:17:47] <dirk> I feel the same.. but the question is if we would object to somebody doing it? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:18:00] <Seli> we already have at least some of the kdemod patches - e.g. I'm pretty sure my xinerama patches are there [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:18:32] <dirk> Seli: good point, please add it to the wiki :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:18:40] <Beineri> dirk: patches can introduce instability/bugs, same reason we don't have eg kde-qt-engine ;-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:18:45] <Seli> ack [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:19:43] <Beineri> and for KDE4 those patches should go upstream if they're good [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:20:42] * Beineri suggest to skip whole "KDE3 desktop" paragraph [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:20:47] <mrdocs> the kde service menu add ons are a perfect way to start for a newbie packager [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:21:03] <dirk> Beineri: +1 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:21:09] <mrdocs> are many of them available for kde4 ? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:21:23] <Beineri> ktux kscreensaver is in kdetoys3, correct? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:21:51] <Seli> Beineri: I think so [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:21:55] <Beineri> the other stuff is mostly about theming [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:23:15] <wstephenson> dirk: kdesu and kwallet dialog rephrasing for a start [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:23:16] <Beineri> mrdocs: I don't think there is a big difference for service menus from kde3 -> kde4 except maybe the location they're installed to [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:23:19] <dirk> can we skip to the plasma section? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:23:26] <wstephenson> (i would port to kde4 though) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:23:52] <dirk> * native kde4 knm applet [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:23:54] <mrdocs> Beineri: good to know.. something to play with [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:23:58] <dirk> WIP.. P1 or P2? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:24:12] <wstephenson> P1 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:24:22] <Beineri> P2=for next release ? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:24:23] <dirk> * native kde4 kpowersave [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:24:38] <mrdocs> p1 = ? for non novell folks ? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:24:54] <dirk> mrdocs: similar to bugzilla priority [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:25:02] <mrdocs> k thanks [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:25:05] <Seli> p1 = important, p2= should be in next release, p3= maybe, p4= low priority [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:25:05] <dirk> >= P2 means (must be fixed for next release) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:25:06] <Beineri> mrdocs: like http://en.opensuse.org/User:Jproseve/TriageProposal#Bug_Priorities [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:25:20] <Seli> I'll add the description to the page top [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:26:07] <Beineri> dirk: kpowersave P2 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:26:35] <dirk> P2 or P3.. guidance is another option, although I would prefer an integrated kpowersave solution [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:27:07] * Beineri is not literally for a kpowersave -> Qt4 port but some Qt4/KDE4-only solution :-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:27:26] <dirk> okay, seems we agree [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:27:38] <dirk> * kickoff work, d&d support for favorites [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:27:43] <dirk> P3 imho [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:27:49] <dirk> but somebody will do it anway :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:27:56] <Beineri> yeah, didn't quite make it into 11.0 :-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:28:19] <dirk> * taskbar improvements / push plasma group [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:28:37] <Beineri> "sorry state" -> more input needed [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:28:50] <Seli> more input, but otherwise p2 imho [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:28:52] <dirk> I think it was discussed here a couple of days ago [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:29:01] * Beineri had vacation :-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:29:04] <dirk> netwm class grouping [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:29:16] <dirk> e.g. if you have 5 konsole windows open you want only one button which produces a popup list [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:29:23] <dirk> instead of 5 taskbar entries like now [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:29:42] <Beineri> andred: do you plan to hack on the taskbar? :-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:29:47] <kdepepo> autohiding is a blocker for me [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:30:00] <dirk> kdepepo: comes later :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:30:04] Quit FL1SK has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:30:06] <Beineri> kdepepo: andred had iirc some initial patch for plasmaa 4.0... [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:30:14] <dirk> P2 for me as well.. [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:30:41] <mrdocs> netwm class grouping is the only major annoyance on kde4 for me [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:30:49] <kdepepo> and I have yet to find out how I can add a simple launch button to panel. [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:31:07] <dirk> kdepepo: add this as a topic to the wiki page please [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:31:13] <Beineri> about "spacer widget", that is/was in playground. had no configurable size though iirc [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:31:29] <dirk> isn't that kind of obsolete now that you can freely position elements with KDE 4.1? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:31:43] <dirk> hmm, I don't dare to remove the task bar now for trying though [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:31:53] <dirk> I think its P1 though if not already done [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:32:13] <Beineri> dirk: isn't that just about position number - not exact position/width/layout? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:32:46] <Beineri> P1=urgent? no :-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:34:03] <Beineri> p3 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:34:25] <dirk> hmm, p3 then [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:34:32] <dirk> * better handling of multiple displays [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:34:38] <Seli> needs more input [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:34:43] <dirk> wip, SoC project I think upstream [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:34:50] <Seli> probably not just plasma-specific [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:35:02] <dirk> * reconsider default plasma theme [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:35:03] <wstephenson> mge kept going on about dragging apps from menus to the panel [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:35:16] <Beineri> SoC project in general means, will be maybe in 4.2 svn and is backport candidate? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:35:45] <kdepepo> aya needs shadows. [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:36:02] <Beineri> well, tell it's author? :-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:36:03] <kdepepo> and remove the dark side line. [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:36:23] <Beineri> or fork it [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:36:31] <dirk> does anyone want to take a look at alternative themes on kde-look.org and package them? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:36:33] <kdepepo> otherwise it should be kept simple as in 11.0 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:36:41] <dirk> or at least collect a wiki page with screenshots/links? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:37:02] <Beineri> http://liquidat.wordpress.com/2008/06/11/the-power-of-plasma-theming-a-gallery-of-23-themes/ [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:37:39] <Beineri> Aya is one of the betters :-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:38:24] <Beineri> but, theming questions are to be discussed rather near the end of 11.1 cycle :-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:38:24] * toma would love one not black or gray which is done properly [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:38:44] <dirk> whiteglass doesn't look bad either [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:38:49] <dirk> a bit kubuntu'ish though [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:38:57] <dirk> [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:39:03] <dirk> toma: agreed [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:39:12] <kdepepo> users should not be forced to use white on black for text, it is often unreadable on monitors with unusual gamma correction [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:40:08] <dirk> can we agree on "cool plasma theme" to be P1 and add this as ongoing action item? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:40:27] <dirk> * panel autohiding [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:40:28] <Seli> I'd prefer not to have "cool" in the description [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:40:35] <dirk> okay [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:41:07] <kdepepo> autohiding->P1, plasma theme->P2 maybe? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:41:47] <kdepepo> I mean, aya "works", autohiding does not. [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:41:59] <dirk> thats a good reason [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:42:18] <kdepepo> and people are likely to replace themes anyway. [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:42:31] <kdepepo> (not that I hate green ;) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:42:34] Quit cb400f has left this server (No route to host). [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:42:40] * Beineri has doubts how many people use autohiding panels [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:42:47] * dirk has as well [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:42:58] <dirk> but it is no doubt that people who want to use it consider it a show stopper [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:42:59] <cb400f_> even xp users do that [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:43:05] <cb400f_> .. and of course most mac users [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:43:53] <dirk> P2 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:44:13] <dirk> hmm, perhaps P1 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:44:16] Quit zak_ has left this server ("computers are like air conditioners,they stop working when you open windows, SO STOP using windows"). [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:44:32] * kdepepo licks dirk :-P [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:44:41] * Beineri looks away [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:44:43] <dirk> * decide a gameplan for folder view [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:45:08] <kdepepo> I dont understand "gameplay" [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:45:26] <Beineri> full theming+wallpaper+gui option to make it containment is imo only a nice-to-have [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:45:26] <dirk> I read it as "do something about the folder view" [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:45:26] <Seli> "solution" I'd say - p1 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:45:44] <dirk> Seli: having a wallpaper on the folder view is P1? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:45:47] <dirk> its only <= P3 imho [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:46:35] <dirk> we can backport what is available from upstream at any time [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:46:40] <dirk> (I guess..) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:46:47] <Beineri> if the plasma api doesn't change ;-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:47:04] <dirk> they want to be stable wtih 4.1 :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:47:10] * dirk crosses fingers [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:47:15] <Beineri> but enter kdelibs only with 4.2 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:47:19] <Seli> dirk: I think we need a good setup with the folderview, it seems to be a problem for many people (not sure about 4.1 now though) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:47:27] <kdepepo> I have no final word on API stability with 4.1 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:47:36] <Beineri> Seli: define "good setup" [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:48:33] <cb400f_> sysinfo:/ and such desktop files shouldn't be in folderview imo [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:48:39] <Seli> well, only part of the desktop now taken by the folderview looks really odd to me, with the frame etc. [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:48:49] <cb400f_> .. maybe plasmoids need to be created for that purpose instead [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:49:05] <dirk> okay.. we're running out of time and progressing slowly [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:49:11] <Seli> but given that I actually don't have anything on the desktop other than the wallpaper, I'm really no authority on judging this [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:50:21] <Beineri> dirk: then either hurry up or break somewhere [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:51:07] <Seli> we still have the livecd issue and q/a - I suggest we do it next time [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:51:32] <wstephenson> isn't kde 3 on 11.1 on tonight's menu? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:51:37] <Beineri> what? the rest of the idea page? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:51:43] <Seli> or maybe I'll add remaining priorities as I see fit, together with the priority howto, and next time we only talk the ones where you disagree with me :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:51:54] <Seli> Beineri: yes, the idea page [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:51:59] <Beineri> wstephenson: you're the firsk one asking iirc [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:52:27] <wstephenson> it's interesting that most of the ppl baying for it on opensuse@ never make it to these meetings... [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:52:48] <Beineri> well, people also start their own Ideas pages... [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:53:01] <dirk> back [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:53:03] <dirk> network hickup [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:53:30] <wstephenson> hiccup. a hickup implies coughing up an entire redneck. [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:54:10] <dirk> okay, lets delay ideas page [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:54:12] <dirk> * kde3 livecd [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:54:17] <dirk> jbrockmeier: want to say something? :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:54:21] <dirk> wstephenson: you brought it up [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:54:42] <wstephenson> yes, some people asked for a kde 3 based livecd. [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:54:48] <wstephenson> are any of them here/ [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:55:09] <wstephenson> apparently making a livecd is easier than remembering to put on a belt in the morning [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:55:10] <Beineri> some==how many? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:55:34] <wstephenson> so we should find these people and make them the kde 3 livecd karetakers [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:55:48] <wstephenson> jbrockmeier and a bunch on opensuse@ [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:56:17] <wstephenson> if nobody is here i will start a thread on opensuse@ to look for victims^Wvolunteers [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:56:23] <dirk> +1 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:56:30] <dirk> AI: wstephenson: start a mail [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:56:38] <dirk> wstephenson: perhaps redirect them to opensuse-kde :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:56:47] <dirk> doesn't hurt to have more traffic on the kde related mailing list [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:56:54] * Beineri doesn't think that that many people are bothered by it btw... [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:56:56] <dirk> there is tons of kde related traffic on other mailing lists for some reason [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:57:02] <jbrockmeier> dirk: just a sec [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:57:12] <Beineri> the download numbers were something like 90% using dvd anyway [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:57:53] <jbrockmeier> dirk: I would like to see a KDE 3 live CD, I'd do it myself if I had time and knew what I was doing with Kiwi :-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:58:16] Quit ra100 has left this server ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org"). [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:58:23] <jbrockmeier> wstephenson: ew [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:58:32] Quit Monex has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:58:36] <dirk> jbrockmeier: the suse studio like announced on linuxtag looks like a good candidate [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:58:51] <dirk> jbrockmeier: would be a good showcase for it, don't you think so? :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:59:02] <jbrockmeier> dirk: might be [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:59:19] <wstephenson> jbrockmeier: ew? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:59:37] <jbrockmeier> <wstephenson> hiccup. a hickup implies coughing up an entire redneck. [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:59:42] <wstephenson> ah that. [Wed Jul 9 2008] [21:59:52] <jbrockmeier> wstephenson: not a pleasant mental image [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:00:33] <Seli> lol [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:00:52] <Beineri> SUSE Studio is a bit overkill imo :-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:01:18] <Beineri> for most authenticate results just take http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.0/repo/oss/suse/i686/kiwi-config-openSUSE-kde-11.0-109.3.i686.rpm and replace the package with the ones from the kde3 patterns [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:01:25] <dirk> wstephenson: unrelated, but http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Hickup thinks that both are synonyms [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:01:34] <dirk> wstephenson: but thanks for the explanation :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:01:37] <Beineri> s/package/kde4 packages list/ [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:02:26] <wstephenson> dirk: AI done [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:02:34] <dirk> good [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:02:41] <dirk> lets close it down for today [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:02:45] <dirk> two hours is more than enough [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:02:48] <dirk> * Q&A [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:03:05] <dirk> Next meeting July 23th, same time same place? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:03:40] <wstephenson> aye [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:04:07] <dirk> any other questions? now its the time to speak up :) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:04:17] <Beineri> one day before Alpha 1 with 4.1 RC :-) [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:04:18] * dirk has to leave in a few minutes, damn private life [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:04:25] <wstephenson> hehehe [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:04:33] <cb400f_> do opensuse packages have the kmail imap dataloss bug? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:04:43] <cb400f_> .. or is that a regression between b2 and rc? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:04:44] <wstephenson> jbrockmeier: watch more david cronenberg movies, it'll toughen you up. [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:04:46] <dirk> !topic [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:04:46] <SUSEhelp> cries and shouts READ THE TOPIC!!! [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:04:54] <mrdocs> cb400f_: bug # ? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:04:58] <jbrockmeier> wstephenson: I'll see what I can do there [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:05:31] <cb400f_> mrdocs: something mentioned on the release-team list.. dunno bug no. [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:05:40] <mrdocs> ah ok [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:05:47] Quit ziggy__ has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:05:48] <Beineri> !topicdiff [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:05:49] <SUSEhelp> Beineri: Too many changes! [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:05:50] <SUSEhelp> Beineri: Old topic: The channel for the KDE community in openSUSE | Next meeting: Jul 9th, 18:00 UTC | http://opensuse.org/KDE4 | http://opensuse.org/KDE/Upgrade | http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kde/ [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:05:52] <SUSEhelp> Beineri: Current topic: Welcome to the openSUSE KDE Community Meeting! [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:05:52] Topic dirk sets the channel topic to "The channel for the KDE community in openSUSE | Next meeting: Jul 23th, 18:00 UTC | http://opensuse.org/KDE4 | http://opensuse.org/KDE/Upgrade | http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kde/". [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:06:09] <toma> cb400f_: that is only for google imap connections and will be fixed in rc [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:06:29] <dirk> toma, cb400f: the bugreport was closed as invalid [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:06:44] <dirk> the mail loss was only due to local modifications of the reporter who did those for other reasons [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:06:54] <cb400f_> ok, good [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:07:06] <dirk> but yes, rc1 packages are burning and being uploaded when the meeting finishes [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:07:16] <toma> dirk: i though i saw a patch on kdepim, must be mistaken then [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:07:51] <Beineri> burning? [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:07:56] <dirk> toma: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=166077 [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:08:00] <bugbot> KDE bug 166077 in kmail (IMAP) "IMAP messages lost after trying to move them" [Grave,Resolved: invalid] [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:08:40] <toma> k [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:08:57] * toma should pay more attention [Wed Jul 9 2008] [22:09:18] <dirk> okay, see you next time .. :)