GNOME/Meetings/20090219/transcript

From openSUSE

< GNOME | Meetings(Difference between revisions)

Revision as of 04:38, 20 February 2009
MBoman (Talk | contribs)

Next diff →

Revision as of 04:38, 20 February 2009

Who	What
suseROCKs	Alrighty, everyone ready to get started?
jpr	+1
vuntz	captain_magnus: late reply, just before the meeting
captain_magnus	suseROCKs: url to the agenda please
vuntz	captain_magnus: but no idea ;-) (maybe you don't have a recent enough gtk+ version)
suseROCKs	We shall now begin with captain_magnus singing the openSUSE Anthem. (/me hands microphone to captain_magnus)Background music by vuntz
captain_magnus	vuntz: Ok, shouldn't be a problem with the version... I'll continue to investigate
suseROCKs	Before we proceed, we need someone to volunteer to take minutes.Any volunteers?
jpr	(don't all volunteer at once
jpr	)
jpr	i have the log for now
suseROCKs	Is anyone even here?:-)
jpr	some one else can parse it out later :-)
suseROCKs	Okay, we'll ping for minutes volunteers again later.
suseROCKs	Today we're going to go a little off the beaten path and cover some pressing matters.We'll cover standard agenda items later on when vuntz is off the phone.
vuntz	actually, I'm not on phone, so it's fine
vuntz	(the other meeting moved to irc today, due to some issues)
suseROCKs	jpr:take it away
jpr	sure
jpr	we have had some discussion internally at Novell
jpr	about how to cede central control of the distro a bit better
jpr	right now the "maintainers" of gnome/kde/X whatever
jpr	are not really visible for the distro
jpr	which leads to sometimes hidden decisions and a lack of transparency
jpr	the proposal i have (and need feedback on)
jpr	is that we form a "core team" of publically visible maintainers
jpr	and that group gets ultimately to decide technical manners
jpr	ie
jpr	removing beagle
jpr	adding pulseaudio
jpr	switching to devicekit
vuntz	jpr: core for GNOME or core for the whole distro?
jpr	for GNOME in this case
jpr	my proposal would be there would be a "base" core team
suseROCKs	but eventually standardizing how cores would work across the board, right?
jpr	that decides cross component issues
jpr	or
jpr	the "base" team is made up a representative from the core teams
jpr	kde, gnome, kernel etc
benJIman	A sort of technical committee?
jpr	suseROCKs: yes, that is the idea, i've been pushing internally that we need consistency there
jpr	benJIman: yes
benJIman	Would this be open to non-novell people?
jpr	yes
suseROCKs	What qualifications are you looking for to be in the core?
jpr	my proposal is to seed the core teams with experts from Novell
jpr	and then the core teams can vote on adding new members
jpr	(i think ubuntu does something similar)
jpr	we would then have a team of "associates" who can be self selecting around these teams
benJIman	What would associates do?
jpr	benJIman: whatever they want - bug reports, translations, support
captain_magnus	How many people to you envision being in this team and who decides which people goes in there?
jpr	benJIman: its more just a way of recognizing people
vuntz	fwiw, ubuntu has only one technical committee
vuntz	(4 or 5 people, for the complete distro)
captain_magnus	Also, can non-openSUSE members be in that team?
suseROCKs	I think its a great idea in principle and goes towards the aim of truly making openSUSE a community-based distro.However, I think we still need to bridge some significant gaps
jpr	captain_magnus: i think that should probably be a prerequisite
suseROCKs	captain_magnus: I disagree with that question.
vuntz	(but they have a desktop team, a basesystem team, etc.)
jpr	if you don't have enough contribution to be a member
jpr	i would question the ability to be on a core team :-0
suseROCKs	by definition, a member is one who provides significant contribution.Ergo, you wouled be a significant contributor in order to be on the committee, thus a member.
jpr	captain_magnus: i envision 3-5 people on a GNOME one
jpr	vuntz: how many people on the ubuntu one?
captain_magnus	jpr: And the cut between Novell/Non-Novell would be?
jpr	vuntz: (is that how MOTU works?)
jpr	captain_magnus: i do not see a reason to enforce limits any way there
benJIman	Would the technical committee have any responsibilities other than having the final say in technical decisions that people can't manage to decide at lower echelons?
vuntz	jpr: ubuntu gnome team?
jpr	captain_magnus: the board still has a technical veto
jpr	for anything really egregious
vuntz	jpr: they don't make a difference between core & associates
captain_magnus	jpr: Good, that would exclude suseROCKs from this team :-)
jpr	vuntz: ok - i meant on the technical committee
decriptor	one of the big forseeable problems is if the community vision isn't in line with what novell wants
suseROCKs	wait a minute,the board has a technical veto on what?
benJIman	jpr: The board mandate says it doesn't interfere with technical decisions.
vuntz	jpr: technical committee is 4-5 people, I think.
captain_magnus	jpr: Sounds like an awesome I have to say
decriptor	ie, sled and sles
decriptor	and its variations
jpr	benJIman: hmm, i thought there was a veto in there
suseROCKs	nope, we don't. :-(
jpr	maybe thats only for board decisions
benJIman	Yeah for project decisions not technical.
jpr	decriptor: yes, that is something i've raised internally about control
vuntz	fwiw, I like the proposal
jpr	i think there are two points on that
vuntz	we probably need to improve users.o.o to be able to join teams, though ;-)
suseROCKs	I do too, but I still feel we need to address bridging technical gaps in order to truly make this a successful goal.
captain_magnus	!s/users.o.o/facebook/
SUSEhelp	captain_magnus thinks vuntz meant: we probably need to improve facebook to be able to join teams, though ;-)
captain_magnus	:-)
jpr	1) novell is a stakeholder in the community and is free to push its view in there - the more important novell feels openSUSE is to its business, the more it should care and invest
decriptor	captain_magnus: what?, I quite then :)
benJIman	I think it is becoming increasingly necessary to have a more open technical committee. People get fed up of just coolo wontfixing things with no explanation because the discussion has happened internally.
jpr	2) i think we can in general rely on the sanity of these core teams much like we rely on upstream to not be totally insane
jpr	vuntz: yes, that is definitely part of the proposal
jpr	it would be sweet if users.o.o created a mailing list, voting structure, "badging" of these teams
suseROCKs	vuntz: we're currently working on fixing users.o.o to be more effective tool. Your idea is good input on that matter.
benJIman	It would be nice if u.o.o did a lot of things. I'm still waiting for openid. The software portal still can't use novell logins until that happens.
vuntz	suseROCKs: that's not my idea ;-)
suseROCKs	I would suggest you all send your recommendations for users.o.o to board@o.o so we can keep track of them when we work with the development
vuntz	suseROCKs: but feel free to give me credit for it, sure
captain_magnus	suseROCKs: Shouldn't that be in FATE?
suseROCKs	Possibly, captain_magnus.Not a bad idea.
suseROCKs	AI: captain_magnusto gather these ideas and input them into FATE
captain_magnus	jpr: So, is this a model that has been approved, or is it still being worked on?
benJIman	Which reminds me I have a question about GNOME package naming conventions for the software portal when it's convenient.
jpr	captain_magnus: people said "why don't you do it internally"
suseROCKs	I believe jprasked for suggestions and comments so its not finalized.
jpr	i want to ensure
jpr	we get consistent backing across the distro
jpr	so right now
jpr	i'm looking for feedback
suseROCKs	jpr: as I have consistently always said for ages, I believe education is the key to making all this successful.
suseROCKs	If we truly want a community-involved core team, we must do what we can to ensure that the community is educated in how it works and how they can significantly contribute to it.
vuntz	jpr: people said "why don't you do it internally"?
vuntz	that's so wrong
jpr	no
jpr	no
jpr	bad quoting
suseROCKs	heh
jpr	"why don't you do it"
jpr	in the internal discussion
vuntz	ah, good, then :-)
jpr	there are of course issues
jpr	like still needing package reviews by novellians
jpr	but that issue is being worked
jpr	and seeding the core teams with novell people
jpr	should be a work around in the short term
vuntz	jpr: so. When can we expect this proposal to go live?
decriptor	I think it would be good to watch and follow contrib a little
suseROCKs	jpr: If the team is committed to transparency and reaching out to mentoring the community at large to eventually be a part of the team, then it will be a great success, I guarantee.
decriptor	to see how that works out.
suseROCKs	Such a concept helps answer that nagging little question in all of us "What's in it for me?"
decriptor	other than education, might be one of the only novell/community agnostic projects
captain_magnus	decriptor: They are looking at kiwi-ltsp as well
suseROCKs	jpr: so where do you plan to proceed from this point on?
jpr	well
jpr	feedback, feedback, feedback
jpr	i would like to take this to the next KDE meeting as well
captain_magnus	jpr: Feedback: Awesome, let's do it ( but only if I can be in that team :-)
jpr	if no one has significant objections extermanlly
jpr	i will go back and sync up with AJ, coolo
jpr	etc
jpr	and get the go ahead
jpr	(maybe opensuse-project@ discussion first
jpr	)
jpr	and then, well do it
jpr	we can discuss the seed members in a meeting
jpr	(the novell ones)
jpr	and then let them take control
decriptor	jpr: setup a wiki page for this.That way we have a place to point people?
suseROCKs	makre sure the plan is well formulated before putting it on -project:-)
captain_magnus	jpr: If you plan a discussion on -project, can you please set some sort of time limit? Discussions seems to go on forever, branch off to something completly off topic, end up in nothing...
jpr	decriptor: good point
jpr	captain_magnus: well
jpr	thats why its a maybe :-)
decriptor	jpr: it would be cool if you had something there today... I could push it at scale
suseROCKs	decriptor: I think its too early to push it at scale
jpr	yah, too early i think
jpr	rather experiment in a more controlled environment :-)
	*jpr shuts up now
jpr	(mail me feedback)
suseROCKs	jpr: I commend you for your bold initiative in bringing about more community stake into openSUSE.
suseROCKs	jpr: certified mail?
captain_magnus	suseROCKs: Stop sucking up to him will yah
decriptor	jpr: I think its a great step forward
suseROCKs	captain_magnus: quit feeling threatened.I'm not qualified for this committee :-)
decriptor	captain_magnus: you are just jealous that he beat you to it :)
captain_magnus	AI: Everybody to send feedback to jpr about this
	*decriptor ducks
suseROCKs	ok so jpr has wrapped up this topic and now we're on to the next topic.
captain_magnus	decriptor: He didn't... I send flowers to jpr every friday :-)
suseROCKs	captain_magnus: Too bad its still Thursday here. LOL
captain_magnus	Hehe
suseROCKs	Ok so following up on the spirit of JPR's Community Involvement, I want to bring up Fest days
suseROCKs	There's been several discussions of doing a hackfest here and hackfest there and I think it would behoove us all if we try to plan a bit head, perhaps up to two months worth of fests so we can spread the word more appropriately.
suseROCKs	one example is a Wiki Hack Fest that captain_magnus brought up in email. We sorely need to clean up our act on the wiki.
suseROCKs	metalgod also wants a packaging day for 2.26.0
suseROCKs	We could use some triaging, bug squashing, bug patching days too.
suseROCKs	As you can see, there's quite a few useful days we could plan ahead on.
vuntz	do you think it should be every week, every two weeks, or...?
suseROCKs	And knowing well in advance which days captain_magnus is off from his secondary job would be useful.
jpr	speaking of triage
jpr	http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs:KDE/Screening
jpr	lubos (Seli) put together this for KDE
jpr	based on my orginal triage proposal
suseROCKs	vuntz: I think we need to figure out a way to get people to come out for these days:-)
jpr	so we could look into tweaking that for GNOME
vuntz	suseROCKs: I think making it a regular intervals will help people come :-)
captain_magnus	vuntz: Agreed
vuntz	jpr: nod. Sounds like we could do a big copy & paste
captain_magnus	hobbsc: ^^ Feel like doing some copy & paste? :-)
suseROCKs	AI:hobbscCopy and paste :-)
captain_magnus	I think the important thing with the xyz fest day would be; what day of the week
suseROCKs	captain_magnus: what weeks are you on break?
vuntz	suseROCKs: the other approach is to do a complete week. Like: Monday = packaging, Tuesday = bugs, etc. Making it a big event
jpr	ooh
suseROCKs	vuntz: no. we do have lives:-)
jpr	thats kind of nice
jpr	like hackweek
jpr	but for community stuff
jpr	suseROCKs: don't be so sure, i think different people do different things
suseROCKs	However, doing an occasional hackweek would be nice too.
jpr	and getting a whole week of novellian time is doable
captain_magnus	So we have this weekly then? :-)
captain_magnus	A full week every week...
suseROCKs	Novellian?I thought it was Novellican:-)
suseROCKs	+1 captain_magnus
captain_magnus	vuntz: How often would you see that happening?
suseROCKs	Quarterly?
captain_magnus	vuntz: Too busy to pat yourself on the back after that suggestion? :-)
vuntz	captain_magnus: hard to have two meetings at the same time ;-)
vuntz	captain_magnus: I don't know what a good frequency would be
jpr	captain_magnus: yah, every 3-6 months sounds good
vuntz	quartely sounds good to me, if that's possible
suseROCKs	hey,quarterly was MY idea
captain_magnus	I like vuntz idea of quartely (don't like suseROCKs idea)
suseROCKs	ok so technically we have 1st quarter ending in about 5 weeks from now.
vuntz	(note that this is heavily inspired by some stuff ubuntu is doing)
suseROCKs	Anyone want to volunteer to be the HackWeek chair?
vuntz	what would the hackweek chair do?
suseROCKs	Plan it!
suseROCKs	Implement it!
vuntz	so
suseROCKs	Scandalize it!
vuntz	to be effective, it'd be even better if it was not GNOME-only
vuntz	if it were not?
suseROCKs	not to sound like I'm advocating segregation here, but why not?
jpr	vuntz: yes
vuntz	suseROCKs: distro-wide noise is more noisy that team-wide noise
vuntz	suseROCKs: more chances to reach more people
jpr	vuntz: we should discuss getting it going after the SLE11 work is done
jpr	for 11.2
suseROCKs	but aren't certain functions unique?
vuntz	suseROCKs: well, you can have 5 different things on a day. Like Monday = { GNOME : bugs ; KDE : packaging ; Kernel : patch review; etc. }
suseROCKs	So blended days then
suseROCKs	Ok then I suggest we move this topic to the next -project meeting
vuntz	suseROCKs: (also note that we'd still want to do packaging days, bug days, etc. outside of this)
	*vuntz always misses the -project meetings :/
	*captain_magnus always misses the -project meetings :/
	*suseROCKs tries not to miss -project meetings
captain_magnus	Ok, so let's discuss the GNOME efforts about this then
vuntz	captain_magnus: define "GNOME efforts"?
suseROCKs	Okay captain_magnus.Which topics would you consider pressing for our own local days?
suseROCKs	Definitely Wiki Hack day
captain_magnus	vuntz: Not a joint effort with the rest of the distro ==	"(also note that we'd still want to do packaging days, bug days, etc. outside of this)"
vuntz	wiki, packaging, bug, patch upstreaming, spec file cleaning
vuntz	(packaging = package new upstream)
captain_magnus	I suggest that we do stuff bi-weekly... And I suggest Thursday's
suseROCKs	Same days as meetings?
captain_magnus	First topic should be wiki, because it's not very healthy
vuntz	captain_magnus: thursday is bad for packaging. (fine for everything else, though)
captain_magnus	vuntz: packing NEW packages you said :-)
captain_magnus	The other packaging days should follow GNOME upstream really (and should sort of be outside of these scheduled days)
vuntz	captain_magnus: nah, "version" was implied. New upstream versions
vuntz	anyway
vuntz	sounds good to me
vuntz	so
vuntz	first one is next week?
captain_magnus	+1
jpr	vuntz: uh, no :-)
jpr	unless we mean
jpr	just one day this time
captain_magnus	jpr: We do :-)
jpr	ok
jpr	community week
captain_magnus	So wiki party next week?
suseROCKs	So next week is Wiki Day
	*yaloki brings the beer
yaloki	burp moin
suseROCKs	Yahooo!!!
captain_magnus	jpr: It's one day... I suggested bi-weekly (thursdays) for GNOME specific stuff
vuntz	captain_magnus: who will "chair" the wiki day?
vuntz	(hint: not me)
captain_magnus	hobbsc
captain_magnus	:-)
captain_magnus	I'm away myself so can't do it
vuntz	ahah, suggesting a day when you're not here
vuntz	good trick
suseROCKs	I would like hobbsc to chair it as well, but we can't guarantee his presence.He has a day job.
yaloki	that's the book of manager wars, chapter 14, captain_magnus san
captain_magnus	vuntz: If you can convince my managers that I don't have to go to customers, then I can be available full time :-)
captain_magnus	suseROCKs: So can you chair it then incase hobbsc isn't available?
suseROCKs	C'mon... We know Novell doesn't have customers :-)
suseROCKs	captain_magnus: Thursday, right?
captain_magnus	Yes
suseROCKs	Ok I'll second-chair
suseROCKs	captain_magnus: in the meantime, feel free to send along suggestions and ideas re: wiki.It was your idea and you won't be around.
captain_magnus	The meeting after that, I'd propose to do bug upstreaming
captain_magnus	patch upstreaming, sorry
suseROCKs	uhhmeeting after that? I thought we wanted to do bi-weekly?
jpr	captain_magnus: i might save that for a little after
jpr	captain_magnus: for a couple weeks after 2.26.0 is realeased
captain_magnus	suseROCKs: Yeah, I didn't say the week after next did I?)
jpr	thats a better time to get stuff upstream quick
captain_magnus	jpr: Good point
suseROCKs	captain_magnus:"The meeting after that"
captain_magnus	.spec file cleanup the meeting after that then :-)
suseROCKs	can yalokiafford the beer for each of these events?
captain_magnus	suseROCKs: "Meeting" in this context is the bi-weekly meetings we are talking about
suseROCKs	our meetings are weekly, sir.
yaloki	suseROCKs: one beer will enough for all of you non-belgians
suseROCKs	even captain_magnus???
suseROCKs	alright,let's get back to the first intent of this topic.Setting dates:
suseROCKs	02/26 - Wiki Day
suseROCKs	03/09 - ?
captain_magnus	What? 03/09?
suseROCKs	March 9th
captain_magnus	A Monday
vuntz	looked like September 3rd to me ;-)
suseROCKs	Not my problem that ya'll are foreigners!
captain_magnus	suseROCKs: Why do you want to change it to a Monday?
suseROCKs	ok let's start again....
suseROCKs	26th day of February: Wiki Day
suseROCKs	9th Day of March: ?
captain_magnus	suseROCKs: Still... Why a Monday in March?
vuntz	heh
suseROCKs	Crap
sreeve1	suseROCKs: I think you mean the 5th day of March
suseROCKs	I was looking at April
captain_magnus	12th of March I can agree with
suseROCKs	Twelfth Day of March: ?
suseROCKs	jpr: We used to have dedicated hackfest days, like federico's ubercool multiscreen hackfest, etc. Any good ones we can come up with?
	*vuntz thinks it's not verbose enough and requires the year
vuntz	didn't captain_magnus propose spec file cleaning?
suseROCKs	vuntz: move it along.Its already one hour into the meeting and jpr has to feed his kids dinner.
captain_magnus	vuntz: I did but suseROCKs choosed to ignore that since I said "meeting after that"
suseROCKs	!s/choosed/chose/
SUSEhelp	suseROCKs thinks captain_magnus meant: vuntz: I did but suseROCKs chose to ignore that since I said "meeting after that"
captain_magnus	Ok, so nothing on the 12th of March then
suseROCKs	c'mon people
suseROCKs	captain_magnus: suggest something
	*vuntz is confused
suseROCKs	spec file day?
	*captain_magnus can't really +1 his own idea so waiting for someone to agree/disagree with spec file day
vuntz	well, I'm fine with it
suseROCKs	+1 so we can get on with our lives
suseROCKs	ok 26th day of March: ?
captain_magnus	Do we have to decide that now?
suseROCKs	I want two more in April and then we'll wrap up.
suseROCKs	Yes.
captain_magnus	We're covered for a month already
suseROCKs	no we've covered just two events
captain_magnus	April 16: Patch upstream day? (2.26.1 should have been released by that time)
suseROCKs	I want to see people planning ahead and coming up with good days
suseROCKs	whoa, why jump ahead to the 16th?We're still on the 26th of March
captain_magnus	26th of March: Can we perhaps try to update G:S:2.24 to latest?
suseROCKs	ok
suseROCKs	One more:2nd day of April
captain_magnus	2nd?
captain_magnus	Or did you mean 9th
suseROCKs	yes, it comes between the first day of april and the third day of april
captain_magnus	Sounds like it should be 9th and 23rd to me but...
vuntz	March 26th & April 2nd are two consecutive weeks?
suseROCKs	true, but captain_magnusalso wanted the 16th
captain_magnus	suseROCKs: I trusted you to suggest the correct dates
suseROCKs	captain_magnus: willing to change your 16th to 23rd?
captain_magnus	23rd for patch upstreaming is good
suseROCKs	and the 9th?
suseROCKs	note, I want to add these to the news.o.o calendar
captain_magnus	I want something as an end user on 9th... But don't know what
captain_magnus	How long is this going to take suseROCKs?
suseROCKs	I think unless vuntzhas some pressing issues to talk about we're about to wrap up.These two topics definitely took a long time.
vuntz	nah, it's fine
vuntz	meeting is already long
captain_magnus	9th, Q&A session about everything and nothing? How can I contribute, why doesn't xyz work, any plans to do 123 in 11.2......?
suseROCKs	then let's decide that end user topic and close up.
suseROCKs	ok
suseROCKs	and that's a wrap!
suseROCKs	I will summarize the hack days proposals on ML
suseROCKs	I will let jpr summarize his core team proposal as he sees fit.
suseROCKs	Good meeting ya'll
jpr	thanks!

Retrieved from "http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/20090219/transcript"

The content on this and other wiki pages is posted by community members who are not acting for or on behalf of Novell, Inc., whether or not they otherwise have affiliation with Novell.
This site uses the YAML CSS framework.
About openSUSE | Disclaimers | Feedback
This page was last modified 22:41, 20 February 2009. This page has been accessed 230 times.