--- Log opened Mi Aug 15 17:59:27 2007 18:00 @<henne> Welcome to the openSUSE Status Meeting! 18:00 @<henne> This meeting is meant to discuss the latest developments in and around openSUSE. 18:00 @<henne> The topics for this meeting are: 18:01 @<henne> 0. Old Action Items 18:01 @<henne> 1. Status Distribution 18:01 @<henne> 2. Status Communication/Events 18:01 @<henne> 3. Status Buildservice 18:01 @<henne> 4. Questions & Answers wiki 18:01 @<henne> 5. Questions & Answers channel 18:01 @<henne> lets go :) 18:01 <adrianS> michl wanted also discuss the greeter / community help button 18:01 @<henne> which is in Q/A wiki 18:01 <adrianS> I read minutes ago on ml

Old Action Items

18:02 @<henne> okay Topic 0: Old AIs 18:02 @<henne> you can find them at this url: http://tinyurl.com/3369c5

• Babel wiki - AI #293726

18:02 @<henne> does anyone know about the babel wiki? 18:02 <notlocalhorst> nope 18:03 @<henne> oh youre there. so any news? 18:03 <adrianS> darix has it not on his list atm ... 18:03 <notlocalhorst> about what? 18:03 <adrianS> and it does not seem to be really required 18:03 <notlocalhorst> he said 2 weeks ago he will look into it ... dunno 18:03 <adrianS> so it got moved back for now ... 18:03 <notlocalhorst> it is required .... 18:04 <Beineri> would be nice to have that together with the wiki theme change 18:04 <adrianS> what is needed for that that ? 18:04 <adrianS> beside creating a babel.o.o wiki ? 18:04 @<henne> and the more prominent question: why is darix not here? 18:04 <notlocalhorst> nothing? 18:04 <Beineri> adrianS: redirections have to work/setup 18:05 <Beineri> henne: maybe his boss does know it? :-) 18:05 <adrianS> darix is not responsible for the wiki anymore 18:05 <notlocalhorst> anyway, lets skip babel, make an ai for me 18:05 <adrianS> it is handled in provo now 18:05 <adrianS> so, lets get a list what really needs to be done and lets ask them

• Newsfeed integration - AI #293725

18:05 @<henne> okay. notlocalhorst ETA on the newsfeed integration? 18:06 <notlocalhorst> hmmm ... it's working fine on stageing, maybe next week (no promise)

• put packages from czech packagers team into buildservice - {AI|281622}

18:06 @<henne> okay. i still have to talk to vladimir about the packages

• publish LinuxTag slides - AI #279072

18:07 @<henne> adrianS: whats with the LT pdf? 18:07 <notlocalhorst> lol 18:07 <adrianS> I uploaded it, but I saw a mail that it didn't worked 18:07 @<henne> it is stated in the AI that it is not working :) 18:07 <adrianS> yes 18:07 @<henne> try again! 18:07 @<henne> ;) 18:08 * adrianS has at least an OpenOffice meanwhile what can create pdfs ....

• community comitee, @opensuse.org mail addresses - AI #267437

18:08 @<henne> notlocalhorst: anything new on @opensuse.org addresses for everybody? 18:08 <notlocalhorst> nope 18:08 <yaloki> who's to bug about that ? (emails) 18:09 <adrianS> notlocalhorst: please speak to me about that, we have something in the
pipline ... 18:09 <Beineri> yaloki: opensuse board :-) 18:09 <notlocalhorst> yes, i know ... when im back from vacation 18:09 @<henne> yes, please lift my illegal status... 18:09 <yaloki> Beineri: which is, whom ? 18:10 <Beineri> yaloki: we will see :-) 18:10 <adrianS> yaloki: no one yet, but michl is novell defined fallback ;) 18:10 @<henne> its also an IT question 18:10 @<henne> because the current setup collides with it... 18:11 <adrianS> yes and we also needs a way to forward the mail 18:11 <adrianS> the user directory will help ... 18:11 <adrianS> I hope at least 18:11 @<henne> and you need a way to send from it 18:11 <adrianS> I do not think so 18:11 <adrianS> at least not with prio #1 18:11 <yaloki> right 18:11 @<henne> hmkay

• status of cn wiki - AI #238355
• fix branding in wikis - AI #238353
• unmaintained wikis - AI #238350
• handling of maintainer permissions
• new wiki theme

18:12 @<henne> anyway. next one: cn opensuse wiki. notlocalhorst anything from alex? 18:12 <Beineri> adrianS: user directory? </meta-question> 18:12 @<henne> heh 18:12 <notlocalhorst> alex? cn wiki or what? 18:13 @<henne> notlocalhorst: read the whole sentence again. yes the cn wiki 18:13 <notlocalhorst> i was on the road and now vacation ... give me a break! :-) 18:13 <notlocalhorst> wip 18:13 <Beineri> s/wip/whip/ 18:13 @<henne> okay so for the next 2 AIs that counts too ;) 18:14 <notlocalhorst> who knows ... 18:14 <adrianS> henne: AI: LT pdf is really really done and tested 18:15 @<henne> adrianS: good boy :) 18:15 @<henne> notlocalhorst: is is.opensuse.org still wrongly branded? 18:15 <metavoid> notlocalhorst: is it possible to make an ability to delegate authority for
language wiki maintainer? 18:16 <notlocalhorst> metavoid: what do you mean exactly? 18:16 @<henne> metavoid: just complain on the wiki mailinglist? 18:16 <Beineri> henne: yes, it is 18:16 <notlocalhorst> henne: i guess so 18:16 <adrianS> metavoid: each language wiki has native speeking sysops 18:16 <adrianS> they have full control over their content 18:16 <notlocalhorst> over all content 18:17 @<henne> cant we change that? 18:17 <adrianS> what ? 18:17 @<henne> the frontpage of is.opensuse.org for instance 18:18 <adrianS> what do you want change ? 18:18 <notlocalhorst> i c 18:18 <notlocalhorst> when will the new theme comes up? 18:18 <adrianS> it got imported into the svn minutes ago 18:18 <notlocalhorst> i have to talk with the maintainers again to check the sites ... 18:19 @<henne> adrianS: the occurance of SUSE Linux 10.2 18:19 <adrianS> so all website related stuff is now in the opensuse svn on forge 18:19 * henne cant 18:19 @<henne> i just tried 18:19 <notlocalhorst> some wikis are working very good, some not .... 18:19 <adrianS> I hope we get it deployed now this week for stage 18:19 <notlocalhorst> ok 18:19 <adrianS> so theoretically we could it roll out next week 18:19 @<henne> hey we are at working on old AIs 18:19 @<henne> not on wiki status! 18:20 @<henne> *whipcrack* 18:20 @<henne> so no one of us can change the content of locked pages on the language wikis? 18:20 <notlocalhorst> i can 18:20 <metavoid> notlocalhorst: I mean is it possible for language wiki maintainer to
temporarily give his authority to another person? 18:20 <notlocalhorst> and done 18:20 <adrianS> henne: wipe 18:21 <adrianS> notlocalhorst: k ;) 18:21 @<henne> so AI:238350 is fixed? 18:21 <adrianS> yes, go on 18:21 <notlocalhorst> metavoid: no, only i can .... but when a maintainer trust somebody, just
send me the account and i will give sysop rights ... i have no props with plenty of sysops
for a wiki 18:21 <notlocalhorst> as long they are not fighting :-) 18:21 @<henne> the next one is on the same topic 18:22 @<henne> tr and vi still mention 10.2 beta1 on the frontpage 18:22 <metavoid> hum, i dont get it: "they have full control over their content"?? 18:22 <adrianS> metavoid: they can change everything 18:22 <adrianS> and they can lock and unlock pages 18:22 <notlocalhorst> only sysops can change the protected pages, like the mainpage 18:22 * Nix can fix TR if necessary 18:22 <metavoid> that's why I'm asking is it possible to temporarily give their full control
to another person (at least for editing the main page)? 18:23 @<henne> Nix: so you volunteer as new tr.opensuse.org sysop? :) 18:23 <Nix> My written Turkish actually sucks, but its good enough to edit the wiki ;-) 18:23 <notlocalhorst> metavoid: yes, i can give full control to more than one person 18:23 <Nix> well, I have very little time to devote to it, but if it is unmaintained at
present I will do what I can 18:23 @<henne> notlocalhorst: so make Nix a sysop for tr and Nix fixes the tr frontpage now :) 18:24 <notlocalhorst> let me first send an email to the maintainer, to ask whats up and to
introduce nix .... ok? 18:24 @<henne> and what language is vi? 18:24 <metavoid> notlocalhorst: ok 18:24 <notlocalhorst> vitnamese? 18:24 @<henne> uhm 18:24 <notlocalhorst> ok, let stop it here: 18:25 <notlocalhorst> some wikis are in a bad shape 18:25 <notlocalhorst> i will take care of it next week and 18:25 <notlocalhorst> talk with the maintainers i know 18:25 @<henne> okay 18:25 <Nix> notlocalhorst: who is the current turkish maintainer? 18:25 <notlocalhorst> and i keep Nix in mind for tr

• bugzilla usage for packages in build service - AI #229213

18:25 @<henne> next AI is about bugzilla usage for the buildservice 18:26 <notlocalhorst> Nix: toraman 18:26 @<henne> wtf happend to yaloki? 18:26 <benJIman> He is at work. 18:26 <Nix> keep in mind that I speak Turkish, but am not natively Turkish so I am happy to
keep the version numbers etc up to date, but do not have the time to do lots
of translation 18:26 <adrianS> Nix: what is your login name ? 18:26 <Nix> notlocalhorst: ok 18:26 <Nix> adrianS: peternixon 18:26 * erikja henne. he left 18:27 <adrianS> Nix: please login once into tr.opensuse.org 18:27 <Nix> done 18:27 <Beineri> the master of AIs appears :-) 18:27 @<henne> erikja: i know. i want to know why ;) 18:27 <adrianS> Nix: you are sysop now :) 18:27 <erikja> henne, ok :-) 18:27 <Nix> cool.. updating it.. 18:28 @<henne> adrianS: okay anything regarding the bugzilla usage for the buildservice 18:28 @<henne> adrianS: youre still the only one doing the component owner? 18:28 <adrianS> henne: well, there is the screening team 18:29 @<henne> are they instructed? 18:29 <adrianS> but I suppose the real question is update to get the direct links 18:29 <adrianS> and we made progress so far that we get now the email adresses from iChain 18:29 <adrianS> so we need to store them in DB 18:29 <adrianS> afterwards we can create direct bugzilla URLs 18:29 <adrianS> to report directly to the maintainers 18:30 @<henne> okay so WIP 18:30 <adrianS> so it is not much work anymore ... 18:30 <adrianS> yep 18:31 @<henne> oki doki

• better wishlist handling using FATE - AI #223290

18:31 @<henne> next one is about fate.opensuse.org 18:31 <adrianS> there are two items 18:32 <adrianS> The plan is still to something likethe partner fate 18:32 <adrianS> a web interface 18:32 <adrianS> in general it is clear what needs to be done, just we have no time for it
atm ... 18:32 @<henne> okay 18:33 @<henne> please state that in the AI 18:33 <adrianS> another item was to get more people involved into the existing fate 18:33 <benJIman> Meanwhile is it acceptable to use bugzilla? 18:33 <Nix> notlocalhorst: I updated the TR frontpage 18:33 <adrianS> IIRC there were not really more people interessted to do the handling of other
people feature requests 18:33 <benJIman> There have been a number of cases of people closing bugs with "Please open
a request in fate" 18:33 <bgerber> yes some of mine 18:34 <adrianS> benJIman: that is a wrong answer of course :/ 18:34 @<henne> benJIman: the reopon and say that you cant... 18:34 <notlocalhorst> Nix: ok, thanks ... but i will still introduce you to torman, even
adrianS is sometimes to fast :-) 18:34 <adrianS> benJIman: please report such answers to me 18:34 <benJIman> Ok. 18:34 <adrianS> notlocalhorst: yes, sorry for that 18:34 <Nix> notlocalhorst: I know toraman... He asked for a job at my company last year ;-) 18:34 <notlocalhorst> Nix: hehe

• create installation/usage videos - AI #223288
• manage/advertise/propose community tasks - AI #214260

18:35 @<henne> okay next AI is installation videos for 10.3. thats waiting for the final version 18:35 @<henne> the next one is about the Tasks page... 18:35 <notlocalhorst> this is an AI? .... 18:36 @<henne> yes. https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=214260 18:36 <bugbot> openSUSE bug 214260 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "[AI] manage / propose /
advertise community jobs" [Normal,New] 18:36 @<henne> you have that one notlocalhorst 18:36 <benJIman> I think albertop was looking at organising screencasts. 18:37 @<henne> benJIman: screencasts? 18:37 <notlocalhorst> we had a meeting 2 weeks ago about that, but i missed it ... lets have
the meeting and post a proposal on project 18:37 <benJIman> videos of installation & common tasks/faqs 18:38 @<henne> benJIman: ah. sascha is having the setup ready 18:38 <notlocalhorst> setup? 18:38 @<henne> well he has a nice way to do good looking videos 18:38 @<henne> (instead of some vmware crap or screencaps) 18:39 <benJIman> henne: Using what? 18:39 <notlocalhorst> xrecordmyscreen ... and for stage 1 you need vmware or i use qemu 18:39 @<henne> benJIman: i dont know anymore. ask in the AI (#223288) 18:39 <notlocalhorst> i made the cebit videos with it, its perfect

• make news.opensuse.org feed work for SUSE Linux 10.1 - AI #205176

(some lines resorted) 18:39 @<henne> okay what about the news.o.o feed for 10.1 adrian? 18:40 <adrianS> AI: notlocalhorst  ;) 18:40 <adrianS> ah 18:40 <adrianS> the bugfix ... no idea yet and no time invested yet 18:40 @<henne> okay 18:41 <notlocalhorst> lol 18:41 <cboltz> adrianS: A simple Redirect line in apache config should fix it 18:41 <cboltz> Don't tell me you don't have to type one line ;-) 18:42 <adrianS> cboltz: let me have a look ... it is not my server ...

• openSUSE merchandising - AI #173961

18:41 @<henne> michl19: what about shop.opensuse.org? 18:41 <michl19> WIP 18:41 <michl19> I registered a shop at cafepress 18:41 @<henne> whats cafepress? 18:42 <michl19> checked with our accounting how to receive money directyl money to openSUSE 18:42 <michl19> that works 18:42 <yaloki> henne: an online shop :P 18:42 @<henne> michl19: cool! 18:42 <notlocalhorst> a shop for poor companies without own logistic stuff ... like novell 18:42 <notlocalhorst> jk 18:42 <yaloki> mmm 18:42 <michl19> currently I need an approval of the brand name from corporate marketing 18:43 <yaloki> if it's ->opensuse, it might be used for sponsoring community (non-novell)
initiatives

18:43 <coolo> ah hour almost passed and we're still at topic 0? 18:43 * yaloki waits for the greeter topic ^^ 18:43 <yaloki> hope I didn't miss it 18:43 @<henne> coolo: yes. because we did let this topic rot for the last 30 meetings 18:43 @<henne> sorry but one day we have to start with this... 18:44 @<henne> next time is way faster 18:44 <Beineri> coolo: the agenda is on the wiki - you could have shuffled the entries ;-) 18:44 <coolo> Beineri: I didn't expect it to take 50min :)

• SDB style guide / differences SDB, HOWTO - AI #164757

18:44 @<henne> notlocalhorst: what about the HOWTO/SDB issues? 18:45 @<henne> coolo: you could have looked at the AI list. you know how long that takes ;) 18:45 <notlocalhorst> it's finished since ages, but i thought nobody cares about it anyway ...
it's a wiki .... 18:45 @<henne> notlocalhorst: then close the friggn AI 18:45 @<henne> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=164757 18:45 <notlocalhorst> bla 18:45 <bugbot> openSUSE bug 164757 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "[AI] SDB style guide /
differences SDB, HOWTO" [Normal,New]

18:45 <Beineri> coolo: 50min, aren't that two more fixed blockers? :-) 18:46 @<henne> okay as far as i can see that way it 18:46 <notlocalhorst> bb in 5 18:46 @<henne> cboltz: if you could stay for 10 minutes after the meeting we can figure out a
way to mark them better please 18:46 @<henne> so next topic right? 18:46 @<henne> 1. Status Distribution 18:46 @<henne> coolo? 18:47 <coolo> henne: 4 minutes to the break between Bayern and Barcelona 18:47 <coolo> don't you have some spare AIs? 18:47 @<henne> coolo: you are watching the wrong game. the good one comes on zdf

Status Distribution

18:47 <Beineri> AI coolo: give status report 18:47 <AJaeger> coolo: We can create some for you ;-) 18:47 <cboltz> OK 18:47 <coolo> ok, status is: 18:48 <coolo> starting today cthiel is ProjMgr for 10.3 - I'm back on 1.9. 18:48 <cboltz> *lol* 18:48 <coolo> Beta1 has been released, got good reviews and good testing 18:48 <coolo> the live CDs showed quite some problems we wouldn't have seen otherwise - so
they were a full success 18:49 <coolo> due to language splits all CDs fit now, so we have a very final go for the
one-CD solutions 18:49 <coolo> Factory unfortunately wasn't really synced since beta1, but we're working on it 18:49 <coolo> the overall quality of beta1 was expected to be bad, but got quite some suprises
still 18:50 <coolo> but for the worst we have online updates out there - including a new bigsmp kernel 18:50 <coolo> and unless cthiel screws up, we're still on pretty good track 18:50 <coolo> that would it be from my side 18:50 <coolo> questions? 18:50 <coolo> ok. I have one 18:50 <coolo> henne: what game is on ZDF? 18:50 <adrianS> we have also some fallbacks for cthiel ;) 18:51 @<henne> coolo: zdf.de :P 18:51 <coolo> adrianS: I'm in the progress of creating one :) 18:51 <adrianS> all "late features" will be in beta 2 ? 18:51 <coolo> adrianS: haem, no 18:52 <adrianS> until when do you want to follow the KDE svn stream ? 18:52 <coolo> adrianS: we're in the progress of reverting opensync to the 10.2 version - which
is very sad 18:52 <bgerber> why 18:52 <coolo> and networkmanager support for dialup didn't make it - so I readded smpppd and
kinternet to the medium 18:52 <coolo> adrianS: till 24th for KDE 3.5, till beta3 for KDE4 18:52 <coolo> for GNOME till 2.20 is ready of course 18:53 * cboltz is still fighting with Kopete :-/ 18:53 <coolo> bgerber: why what? 18:53 <Beineri> cboltz: use Konversation :-) 18:53 <coolo> but I have news I would like to have feedback on: 18:53 <coolo> I put all packages required for all patterns on the DVD5 (new: mono, ruby, java
and rails devel) 18:54 <cboltz> Beineri: I'm doing this right now, but I prefer Kopete for several reasons
(except flood-killing me ;-) 18:54 <bgerber> ope n 18:54 <metavoid> coolo: what about language layout for DVD5? it still on the 10.2 level. Or
should we discuss this on ML? 18:54 <bgerber> opensyn to 10.2 version 18:54 <coolo> this increases the DVD5 to 4.2GB - has anyone ever heared of real problems with
ISOs > 4.00GB? 18:54 <adrianS> webmaster@suse.de reported a lot 18:54 <coolo> metavoid: I have plenty of room left on the DVD5 - unless someone has an answer
to my last question :) 18:55 <coolo> adrianS: like? 18:55 <coolo> people using buggy software? 18:55 * Nix has found significant stability issues with kopete and kontact with beta1 18:55 <adrianS> downloading files does not work with Application X 18:55 <adrianS> or it seemed to work but burned image was broken 18:56 <coolo> Nix: without reporting it? 18:56 <adrianS> I can ask Frank tomorrow again about it ... 18:56 <Nix> it may be because I just switched to a 64bit Centrino Duo notebook instead of a
single core 32bit centrio 18:56 <Nix> coolo: I just switches last night.. 18:56 <Nix> switched 18:56 <coolo> adrianS: I downloaded, burned and verified the DVD image on the XP installation
of my thinkpad without having any kind of special windows software 18:56 <adrianS> coolo: however, I know that even ktorrent does crash if the FS does not allow it 18:56 <Nix> but kontact has crash approx 25 times today 18:56 <coolo> and I don't believe people try to put DVD isos on vfat 18:56 <Nix> crashed 18:57 <Nix> ktorrent also appears broken 18:57 <adrianS> coolo: I dunno, thats just what I heard ... 18:57 @<henne> coolo: why dont we try with beta2? :) 18:57 <Nix> I will open bugs tonight.. 18:57 <coolo> henne: beta1's DVD is already larger than 4.00 18:57 <coolo> henne: that's what I tested 18:57 <metavoid> I mean non-tier1 laguages that reside on dvd5 18:57 <bgerber> why did you have to revert opensync to the 10.2 version? 18:58 @<henne> coolo: as obviously nobody complained its okay i guess... 18:58 <coolo> metavoid: I'm aware. Right now I don't see a reason to stop at 4.2GB if we can
fill 4.7 :) 18:58 <coolo> bgerber: because it's a development version that is broken 18:58 @<henne> unless frank really has that many reports... 18:58 <metavoid> coolo: I have a suggestion to put all tier2 languages to the addon cd and make
place for more useful stuff, that would be fair 18:58 <metavoid> i thinks many teams will support this decision 18:59 <coolo> metavoid: as I said: there are no place problems unless we have to constraight
us to buggy download software 18:59 @<henne> coolo: maybe you should start that discussion on -factory (or have cthiel do it) 18:59 <coolo> so I rather add the other 100MB missing (I have to measure what it means to add
tier2) 19:00 @<henne> we wont sort this out here... 19:01 <coolo> henne: ok, then I'd like to concentrate on topic 2 (and the second half :) 19:01 <cyberorg> so when do we see 'late features' and final artwork? 19:01 @<henne> anything else regarding the distribution? 19:01 <metavoid> coolo: sure but what be the criteria of placing this or thet tier2 language on
DVD5? 19:02 @<henne> metavoid: of of to the mailinglist ;) 19:03 @<henne> coolo? 19:03 <mvidner> cyberorg: the late features by beta 2 19:03 <metavoid> ok 19:03 @<henne> alright. next topic then yes? 19:03 <cyberorg> mvidner: ok 19:03 <coolo> henne: I was already in the q&a section 19:04 @<henne> nevermind. its answered 19:04 @<henne> so next topic

Status Communication

19:04 @<henne> 2. Status Communication 19:04 @<henne> notlocalhorst? 19:04 <notlocalhorst> last weekend was bugslashing, thanks francis for organizing it, and all
who helped to file and slash bugs. see posting from francis on news.o.oPromoDVDs:
nearly all got the dvds, some problems with the postal service, incredible how hard
it must be to deliver a pakage in some countrys ... grr. I stillhave some DVDs left ...
if you want some, mail me. I got a request to put the desktop survey on the mainpage,
dunno if this is 19:04 <notlocalhorst> nice wordwrap 19:05 @<henne> desktop surveY? 19:05 <notlocalhorst> yeah, i search for the link ... anybody? 19:05 <Beineri> http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7943272425.html 19:05 @<henne> on the frontpage of the wiki? 19:06 <benJIman> I don't think it's a good idea. 19:06 * Beineri is against such arms races 19:06 @<henne> for what? so we influence the results or what? 19:06 <benJIman> Legitimising survey skewing. 19:06 @<henne> just make a news posting about it 19:06 <notlocalhorst> ok, will do 19:06 <benJIman> I wouldn't even do that. 19:06 <AJaeger> Let's not do it. 19:06 <notlocalhorst> why not? 19:06 <AJaeger> The page says: 19:06 <benJIman> It's a random site doing a survey. 19:06 <AJaeger> Participants are asked to refrain from promoting or advertising the survey to
mailing lists, or encouraging friends or co-workers to vote for specific software,
in order to ensure that the survey represents a broad sample of Linux desktop users
rather than being used to advance a particular open-source software cause. 19:06 <coolo> Beineri: because we'd loose and we can more easily claim it's unfair if we did
not take part? :) 19:07 <Beineri> coolo: yeah, GNOME is leading ;-) 19:07 @<henne> okay so we dont do anything about it 19:07 @<henne> anything else regarding communication? 19:07 <notlocalhorst> wow, thats bs ... dont talk about the survey, like fight club ... 19:08 <coolo> notlocalhorst: don't worry about it. I'm writing a bot 19:08 @<henne> its a strange survey anyway... 19:08 @<henne> okay so next topic?

Status Build Service

19:09 @<henne> 3. Status BuildService 19:09 @<henne> adrianS? 19:09 <adrianS> Well, you saw that the release of software.opensuse.org went well ;) 19:09 <adrianS> sure there was some minor needed hot fixes 19:09 <cboltz> It seems Ubuntu has announced the survey somewhere (36.7% ;-) , openSUSE has
9.6%, Debian 12% and the remaining ~40% go to several other distributions 19:09 <adrianS> but most important we even survived the heise announcement 19:10 <adrianS> it increased the load on our servers a lot, BUT they where able to handle it :) 19:10 <adrianS> I briefly described what we plan in future with it 19:10 @<henne> time to put it on slahdot then? 19:10 <adrianS> find it here: 19:10 <adrianS> http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/End_User_Frontend 19:10 <adrianS> and again, all of our infrastructure is open source 19:10 <adrianS> so everybody can join development :) 19:11 <adrianS> we are happy to get you a start 19:11 <adrianS> the worst thing so far was that I messed up the "1 click" yast packages for
old distros 19:11 <adrianS> benJIman pointed me to the errors and they should be fixed now 19:11 <adrianS> but I haven't test it on <= 10.2 19:11 <benJIman> Someone reported on mailing list, I hadn't tried the packages :) 19:12 <adrianS> 10.3 Beta 1 should work by default 19:12 <benJIman> Lots of people are asking about firefox associations, there's been no activity
on that bug report recently. 19:12 <adrianS> additionally, the required approval step for new logins has been removed 19:12 <Beineri> cboltz: "gg:ubuntu desktop survey 2007" finds some posts which were obviously
deleted again 19:12 <adrianS> so everybody can now immediatly start to build packages 19:13 <adrianS> we do observe what happens atm and we will fitting quotas later 19:13 @<henne> how many new users do we have from this? </meta-question> 19:13 <adrianS> the obs rpm packages have been also updated 19:13 <adrianS> so, if you want to run a build service on your own, try it and give feedback 19:14 <adrianS> there where already two success reports for them :) 19:14 <bgerber> did the rails update get into the RPM? 19:14 <bgerber> as a requirement 19:14 <adrianS> not yet 19:15 <bgerber> I got stung by it as well. 19:15 <adrianS> they build against the old ones, so we would need to change the project setup 19:15 <adrianS> afterwards the ymp file should solve this problem for the user ... 19:15 * adrianS needs a 10.2 for testing ... 19:15 * henne might have one in the basement. next to windows 95 19:15 <adrianS> k, that was it from my side 19:16 @<henne> any questions regarding that? 19:16 <cyberorg> adrianS: is there easy metapackage maker planned, like check box selection
packages and create metapackage button 19:16 <adrianS> for the web interface ? 19:16 <adrianS> well, I would like to have a pattern file editor mask ... 19:17 <adrianS> but now one works on that 19:17 <cyberorg> yeah and osc createmetapackage "list of packages" something like that 19:17 <adrianS> so, if you want :) 19:17 <adrianS> hm, the point is that patterns can be more complex than only simple package
lists 19:18 <adrianS> so it is save for now just to show/edit the xml file 19:18 <adrianS> on the other hand ... the backend does also only handle simple pattern files
right now 19:18 <adrianS> cyberorg: ruby is easy, come on try it ;) 19:19 * cyberorg programming handicap 19:19 <adrianS> okay, go on 19:20 <cyberorg> looks like everyone left :) 19:20 @<henne> so next topic? 19:20 @<henne> Q/A from the wiki 19:20 <adrianS> actually, I know someone who works on a web interface for a pattern editor,
but on another project ...

Status Events

19:20 <notlocalhorst> no, events? 19:21 @<henne> oh events. sorry. why is that an extra topic and not in communication? :) 19:21 <notlocalhorst> whatever, it's short: some LWE pictures
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11426495%40N08/sets/72157601408057802/ ,
to sum it up: good, see http://news.opensuse.org/?p=120
All other events: i'm working on it. So far only OpenExpo is fixed, and ENOS, Portugal.
Will post details soon. I would like to have somebody from the community in zuerich
for support, as always you will get a free t-shirt :-) 19:21 <notlocalhorst> thats all 19:22 <Beineri> cgoncalves will post an update for ENOS to news.o.o next week I think 19:22 @<henne> only one for the whole expo? dont be so stingy... 19:22 <notlocalhorst> one and a deo stick! :-) no, for everyday of course 19:22 @<henne> any questions regarding events? 19:23 <cgoncalves> i forgot the meeting. sorry the dealy. i will try to write a good post 19:23 @<henne> or do you know any events we should look at? 19:23 <notlocalhorst> thx cgoncalves

Q & A: Greeter and "get help" icon

19:24 @<henne> okay so then we can finaly come to the topic that will take the most time 8) 19:24 * Beineri welcomes lewing to it 19:24 @<henne> Q/A from the wiki 19:24 @<henne> michl19 asks what issues are still open for the greeter 19:25 @<henne> http://developer.kde.org/~binner/SUSEgreeter/ 19:25 <michl19> is the current susegreeter really an issue or is it okay? 19:25 <michl19> yaloki wants to have it more action orientated 19:25 * henne pokes yaloki 19:25 <notlocalhorst> aektschn 19:26 <yaloki> I posted several times about it on mailing-lists, both -project and -factory 19:26 <michl19> I'm pretty fine with it and we are already in the translaiton cylcel 19:26 <yaloki> the gripes remain 19:26 <yaloki> IMO as it is now, it's useless 19:26 <cb400f> we also discussed perhaps splitting the help options from the greeter.. 19:26 <yaloki> right 19:26 <aka_druid_> michl19: really an issue 19:26 <yaloki> they must be split 19:26 <cyberorg> i found it quite nice, i use gnome and there is nothing like that in it 19:26 <michl19> but will be ;-) 19:26 <Beineri> cyberorg: lewing is working on a gnome version 19:27 <yaloki> the original "get help" idea (well, originally just IRC) was to provide an
_easy_ and clear way for utter noobs to get access to help from the community 19:27 <cyberorg> k 19:27 @<henne> yaloki: so can you make a more action oriented version? 19:27 <michl19> the current situation with the greeter is much better then before 19:27 <cb400f> an icon on the desktop called help with info about various support options 19:27 <yaloki> http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/files/greeter/ 19:27 * Beineri agrees with michl19 19:27 <yaloki> click on IRC, didn't implement the others yet 19:27 <cb400f> I don't support one click to irc though 19:27 <aka_druid_> henne: the problems were raised to Beineri and coolo. And we dont know if
they will accept a nwe version or not. 19:28 <aka_druid_> michl19: thats because the before is terrible, not becuase the current is
great 19:28 <benJIman> karl Would rather have no string changes. 19:28 <yaloki> please have a look at the mock posted above 19:28 <adrianS> yaloki: the technical problem is that the greeter does not use a html widget 19:28 <yaloki> (just click on the chat one though, others not implemented yet) 19:28 <Beineri> aka_druid_: it's not up to me to accept or not :-) 19:28 <michl19> and naming the icon on the desktop something like help would work in my opinion 19:28 <adrianS> to allow fast loading on startup 19:28 <yaloki> adrianS: why not just make it plain HTML ? 19:29 <yaloki> adrianS: has nothing to do with startup 19:29 <yaloki> again 19:29 <yaloki> please read 19:29 * Beineri liked the idea of renaming the desktop icon to "openSUSE Online" 19:29 <yaloki> 1) split greeter and a desktop icon for help 19:29 <adrianS> yaloki: you want an extra button link on the desktop 19:29 <yaloki> 2) use HTML, there's no reason to use qt 19:29 <cb400f> as a translator I would be happy to translate those strings.. we just had
freeze moved a week 19:29 <yaloki> adrianS: right 19:29 <adrianS> opening a web browser, right ? 19:29 <yaloki> adrianS: well, I don't see any reason for not just firing up a browser with
HTML, why a qt app 19:29 <adrianS> yaloki: so you do not want to get it opened by default on login 19:29 <adrianS> ? 19:29 <yaloki> again, I'm _not_ talking about the greeter 19:30 <yaloki> adrianS: everyone clicks it away, it must be on the desktop 19:30 <adrianS> yaloki: the qt app is way faster than any browser 19:30 <yaloki> "get online help" or something 19:30 <aka_druid_> adrianS: if its an icon in the desktop, user opens when he wants 19:30 <adrianS> yes, sure 19:30 <adrianS> I personally think that this is a good idea 19:30 * henne too 19:30 <aka_druid_> yaloki: or "community help" 19:30 <yaloki> the point to separate it from the greeter is that it's not as cluttered 19:30 @<henne> you definately want that at later times 19:31 <aka_druid_> as Ive said gazillions of time, I will repeat once again.. This is what I
think a greeter should be 19:31 <yaloki> the point is really that the unexperienced user has an issue, or needs
information (e.g. how to install multimedia stuff) 19:31 <yaloki> showing him a cluttered screen that talks about opensuse, the build service
and such is no help 19:31 <aka_druid_> its easy, its to the point, its atractive to the newbie 19:32 <yaloki> using a dedicated icon that only talks about help 19:32 <aka_druid_> but I would go with the yaloki's only help version too 19:32 <yaloki> has the advantage of being focused, give more space for content 19:32 @<henne> okay okay 19:32 @<henne> is anyone disagreeing that we split help from the greeter? 19:32 <yaloki> and as a side note I'm totally unhappy with how all that stuff happened 19:32 * adrianS supports it even 19:32 <michl19> is that possible time wise? 19:33 <yaloki> we've got a few people for translating too 19:33 <adrianS> well, one question is if we want to ship a "off-line" version of it 19:33 <yaloki> de, fr, it, es, dk, en_gb, pt_br, fi 19:33 <yaloki> adrianS: not sure about that 19:33 <adrianS> But I personally would write something like "Online Community Help" under the
button and simply point to a web side 19:33 <aka_druid_> adrianS: they jsut point to the online resources. They only make sense when
you are connected 19:34 <yaloki> right 19:34 <yaloki> could as well be online 19:34 <adrianS> otherwise we run into trouble for 10.3 19:34 <yaloki> because it's plain useless if you're offline 19:34 @<henne> true 19:34 <adrianS> coolo: would a button still possible ? 19:34 <yaloki> only thing that has to work is irc:// links from browsers 19:34 <adrianS> yaloki: if not, it is a bug in our browser ... 19:34 <yaloki> indeed 19:35 <yaloki> prolly a no-brainer with kde, konqi and konversation 19:35 <Beineri> buggy browser? that must be Firefox ;-) 19:35 <yaloki> dunno with firefox though, prolly tricky 19:35 <adrianS> cthiel: AJaeger: would a button still possible ? 19:35 <yaloki> the client doesn't matter though 19:35 <adrianS> translation wise ? 19:35 <aka_druid_> konq ill launch kopete, make konversation ahve preference 19:35 <yaloki> oh right 19:35 <yaloki> aka_druid_: suppose we should open a bug for that one 19:35 <Beineri> aka_druid_: that's not true imo 19:35 <yaloki> konversation should have higher priority in services for irc:// than kopete 19:35 <aka_druid_> Beineri: no, it is true, I tested... It will fire kopete for irc:// 19:35 <yaloki> (kopete is quite lousy as an IRC client) 19:36 <yaloki> aka_druid_: something to test with beta1, and/or file a bug 19:36 <cgoncalves> yaloki: i'm with you 19:36 <adrianS> AJaeger: someone from your departement need to take care about the button, if
you do not disaggree ... 19:36 <adrianS> AJaeger: I can create some http://community-help.opensuse.org redirection host 19:37 @<henne> adrianS: you can say henne directly.... 19:37 <adrianS> or hosting the pages from yaloki .... 19:37 <aka_druid_> so if we are goin for a help section appart, what is going to be in the
greeter? 19:37 <adrianS> michl19: is that okay from your side ? 19:37 <yaloki> adrianS: makes sense (hostname + hosting) 19:37 <aka_druid_> adrianS: nonono, I think the idea is to have a bunch of html in
/usr/share/greeter 19:37 <cb400f> aka_druid_: community.. bs.. opensuse-project.. small intro to FOSS.. 19:37 <yaloki> aka_druid_: no, online is better, easier to improve+fix 19:37 <michl19> it's okay from my side 19:37 <aka_druid_> cb400f: no, dont start putting things on it. It shouldnt grow 19:38 @<henne> aka_druid_: no. we just agreed that the help pages would be useless offline 19:38 <adrianS> aka_druid_: we will not make this in time for openSUSE 10.3 ... translation
freeze is over already 19:38 <cb400f> aka_druid_: those are the things that are already there actually ;-) 19:38 <aka_druid_> if its just a link that lauches opensuse.org, its also sueless 19:38 <adrianS> okay, another thing what needs to get clarified 19:38 @<henne> stop stop stop stop 19:38 <aka_druid_> if its a huge page wqith everything openssue has, as cb400f sees it, its
also useless 19:39 @<henne> guys 19:39 @<henne> let me summarize 19:39 @<henne> 1. We split the help part from the greeter 19:39 <adrianS> can we still touch the greeter at all ? 19:39 @<henne> 2. The help part is a desktop link that opens a browser that loads some online link 19:39 @<henne> agreed? 19:40 <yaloki> agreed 19:40 <aka_druid_> the whole idea is to make it objective, to the point and atractive. Because
if its not all those things, we could simply point them to our site and thats it 19:40 <AJaeger> adrianS: give the AI for the button to Henne. 19:40 <adrianS> maybe the greeter needs to stay in the current form, but I aggree with 2. 19:40 <aka_druid_> henne: still sucks, but if there is no other way... 19:40 <michl19> agreed provided that we still can do it 19:40 <yaloki> michl19: as it's online there's still plenty of time (sort of) 19:40 <Beineri> adrianS: touch in? drop the whole second "Support and Communication" paragraph
without affecting translation? 19:41 @<henne> michl19: the button is a 10 line .desktop file 19:41 <yaloki> when's b2 planned? now? 19:41 <adrianS> Beineri: that might work as long you can do it for the translations ;) 19:41 <adrianS> yaloki: next week 19:41 @<henne> michl19: and 50 lines translation 19:41 <yaloki> ok 19:41 <Beineri> adrianS: ? one paragraph less is no problem... 19:41 <adrianS> okay, I will create the vhost tomorrow 19:41 @<henne> michl19: the greeter gets only stuff removed. no strings added 19:41 <yaloki> though on the distro, it's just testing that the .desktop and irc:// works 19:42 <adrianS> another thing 19:42 <adrianS> which html pages do we use ? 19:42 <yaloki> adrianS: how do you mean? 19:42 <adrianS> shall we host it in our vhost ? 19:42 <yaloki> adrianS: hosting on o.o makes sense to me 19:42 <yaloki> and put the html+png+css in SVN 19:42 <adrianS> okay, so I add it to the forge opensuse svn ? 19:42 <yaloki> right 19:42 <yaloki> makes sense to me, at least 19:43 <adrianS> is the version from yaloki okay for everybody ? 19:43 @<henne> and leave out the community- in the hostname... 19:43 <yaloki> henne: you mean help.opensuse.org ? 19:43 <adrianS> henne: why ? 19:43 <michl19> guy, I need to drop off 19:43 @<henne> adrianS: way to long and clumsy 19:43 <adrianS> okay 19:43 @<henne> just help.opensuse.org or support.opensuse.org 19:44 <adrianS> well 19:44 * yaloki votes for help 19:44 <Beineri> how would translations/localized version of help.opensuse.org work? 19:44 <adrianS> okay help.opensuse.org 19:44 <yaloki> "help" definitely sounds like community help, not official support 19:44 @<henne> okay 19:44 <yaloki> Beineri: browser detection + language flags 19:44 <Beineri> or would we have different urls for languages in the .desktop file? 19:45 <cb400f> couldn't it just be a local .html included on the distro? 19:45 <Beineri> *sigh* 19:45 <yaloki> cb400f: no, too late 19:45 <yaloki> cb400f: freeze 19:45 @<henne> cb400f: ARGH. we just agreed that it will be online 19:45 <yaloki> cb400f: + it's useless as all linked resources are online 19:45 <AJaeger> shell script that does case $LANG in ... ? 19:45 @<henne> Beineri: can that be done? 19:46 <yaloki> isn't the default browser language $LANG ? 19:46 <adrianS> yaloki: I created an infrastructure/help directory in svn, please submit your
stuff there ... 19:46 <yaloki> can be done on the server side 19:46 <yaloki> adrianS: ok 19:46 <Beineri> AJaeger/henne: I think something like url=http://support.opensuse.org \n
url[de]=http://support.opensuse.org/de should work 19:46 @<henne> Beineri: okay cool 19:46 @<henne> thats sorted then 19:46 <adrianS> server side detection has the advantage that we can add further languages later ... 19:47 <adrianS> and keep in mind 19:47 <adrianS> the desktop icon gets created once and stays a long time ... 19:47 <adrianS> so simpler content of it is better ;) 19:47 @<henne> details anyway 19:47 @<henne> we figure that out 19:48 <yaloki> yep 19:48 @<henne> so is everybody happy now with the greeter situation? 19:48 * yaloki is 19:48 <yaloki> needs a bug to track tasks and progress 19:48 <Beineri> henne: as long as someone can tell me exactly what to do tomorrow, yes ;-) 19:48 <yaloki> have to run now 19:48 <adrianS> okay, I create a bug ... 19:48 @<henne> Beineri: remove the help content :) 19:49 <Beineri> henne: yeah, and add another desktop icon, and ... 19:49 @<henne> Beineri: thats my AI :) 19:49 <Beineri> henne: mh? 19:49 <cgoncalves> yaloki: please fix html errors (12 errors found by validator.w3.org) 19:49 @<henne> although i will just ask you to do it ;) 19:49 <adrianS> who will take care about the language detection on the server side ? 19:49 * cboltz has to leave 19:50 @<henne> adrianS: we havent agreed on doing that or ;) 19:50 <adrianS> okay ... 19:50 @<henne> anyway. thats all details 19:50 @<henne> ill take that AI 19:50 <adrianS> thats all work ;) 19:50 @<henne> i know. and this is the status meeting and not the work meeting ;) 19:51 * henne just hopes oowriter has a .desktop export 8) 19:51 @<henne> okay so the very last topic: 19:52 @<henne> general Q/A 19:52 @<henne> anything we didnt cover? 19:52 <coolo> henne: who will win? 19:52 <aka_druid_> dont screw the online version ffs 19:52 <cb400f> someone mentioned a comparative usability study of openSUSE and the brown
hobbit distro.. on -ux 19:52 * Beineri was about to ask: is coolo fallen asleep? 19:52 @<henne> coolo: is that really a question? 19:52 <coolo> henne: well, they have Koch in the goal, no? 19:52 <aka_druid_> henne: I have a question 19:52 <coolo> henne: that's a K 19:53 <aka_druid_> who will write the online version 19:53 <aka_druid_> or its going to be exactly the yaloki mockup? 19:53 @<henne> aka_druid_: exactly not. if you want to work on it co-ordintate with him : 19:53 <adrianS> aka_druid_: what is missing from pascals version ? 19:53 <aka_druid_> henne: I want to make sure that people understand what its supposed to be 19:54 <aka_druid_> cb400f for example doesnt understand, and I dont want it to end like the
current greeter 19:54 <Beineri> text not flowing over boxes would be a nice features <gd&r> 19:54 @<henne> aka_druid_: like i said. we will take yalokis mockup as base and work with that. 19:54 <aka_druid_> henne: if its yaloki, Im happy 19:54 @<henne> so please say whats wrong with it :) 19:55 @<henne> oki doki 19:55 @<henne> are there any other questions? 19:55 <aka_druid_> henne: Ive said thousand of times. when someboy will implement, they do it
different 19:55 @<henne> or can we put an end to this monster meeting? 19:55 <adrianS> bug #300773 exists for tracking now 19:55 <bugbot> openSUSE bug 300773 in openSUSE 10.3 (Basesystem) "Create online help button and
infrastructure" [Blocker,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=300773 19:55 <aka_druid_> Im cc'ing myself to that 19:55 <Beineri> aka_druid_: thanks for telling. me too ;-) 19:55 @<henne> So that was it. If you have more, dont hesitate to bring it up on the
appropriate mailinglist. 19:56 @<henne> The next meeting will be at the 29th of August. Same time, same channel. 19:56 @<henne> Thank you all for participating. Good night and good luck! --- Log closed Mi Aug 15 19:59:47 2007