Meetings/Status Meeting 2007-03-07/transcript

From openSUSE

[17:01:35] <@henne> Welcome to the openSUSE Status Meeting!
[17:01:42] <@henne> This meeting is meant to discuss the latest developments in and around openSUSE.
[17:01:49] <@henne> The topics for this meeting are:
[17:02:00] <@henne> o 1 Status Distribution
[17:02:00] <@henne> o 2 Communication
[17:02:00] <@henne> o 3 BuildService
[17:02:00] <@henne> o 4 Events
[17:02:00] <@henne> * 5 Q & A (see questions below)
[17:02:24] <@henne> aj has something else to do i think
[17:02:27] <@henne> cthiel?
[17:02:30] <@henne> adrianS?
[17:02:50] sand3r [n=sand3r@smuller.demon.nl] has joined #opensuse-project
[17:02:51] <adrianS> yep, I am here
[17:03:08] <@henne> then tell us something about the status of our distributions :)
[17:03:28] <adrianS> Actually, most of the company is in SLES SP 1 fever atm
[17:03:29] <cthiel> henne... just getting back to my desk right now.
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[17:03:41] <adrianS> so there is not much progress in Factory atm
[17:03:51] <cthiel> except a libzypp breakage, it's looking OK
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[17:04:21] <@henne> okay
[17:04:23] <adrianS> we plan next Alpha next week IIRC
[17:04:38] <@henne> michl19: what about the roadmap?
[17:04:54] <michl19> nothing fixed yet
[17:05:07] <michl19> there are still internal discussions ongoing
[17:05:19] <@henne> any new topics since fosdem?
[17:05:29] <apokryphos> when is sp1 due?
[17:05:41] <michl19> May 10
[17:06:10] <apokryphos> hm, thanks
[17:06:22] <captain_magnus> I don't agree that nothing much is going on with factory... At least for GNOME, we now have Banshee 0.12, F-Spot 0.3.5 and a new main-menu from SLED10SP1
[17:06:35] <microchip_> btw, does anyone know how many beta's 10.3 will get
[17:06:46] <apokryphos> captain_magnus: nice!
[17:07:00] <michl19> depends on the roadmap, we're thinking about 2 or 3
[17:07:07] <Beineri> microchip_: likely one more than 10.2 iirc
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[17:07:12] <@henne> betas that is
[17:07:13] <microchip_> ok, thx
[17:07:32] <@henne> any other questions regarding the distribution?
[17:07:45] <microchip_> yes
[17:07:46] <cb400f> I was curious about KDE4..
[17:07:55] <cb400f> not least after seeing AJs Fosdem slides
[17:08:01] <microchip_> can we make something to speedup boot time of suse?
[17:08:11] <adrianS> KDE4 packages receive a major rework atm, Beineri ?
[17:08:15] <apokryphos> microchip_: discussions for that are ongoing on the ML and it's a plan
[17:08:24] <microchip_> ok
[17:08:32] <apokryphos> microchip_: Aj mentioned it at FOSDEM too; you can see his slides, and the video should be out in a few days
[17:08:33] <microchip_> maybe use Initng
[17:08:37] <@henne> microchip_: yes you can. grab bootchart and identify speed hogs
[17:08:46] <Beineri> adrianS: they are mostly splitted already, and contain a snapshot of this week...
[17:09:00] <adrianS> since zmd will not be started by default anymore, it will already improve the boot time ...
[17:09:07] <apokryphos> Beineri: will they remain split when packaged into the distribution?
2 [17:09:15] <Beineri> apokryphos: sure :-)
[17:09:17] <apokryphos> awesome
[17:09:18] <microchip_> henne: my system boots pretty fast, it's just the default boot time after a fresh install that's slow
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[17:09:49] <@henne> microchip_: yes sure. identify why and report that as bugs. generalization does not help here. specific tasks do :)
[17:09:57] <cb400f> Beineri: do we feel certain kde4 will be out in time for 10.3?
[17:09:57] <nine> microchip_: so what did you do to speed it up?
[17:10:13] <Beineri> cb400f: no :-)
[17:10:16] <cb400f> .. and will 10.3 have KDE4 if not officially released by then?
[17:10:21] <microchip_> henne: i already send mail to AJ about that, also asked questions about Initng
[17:10:36] <adrianS> It is not clear what 10.3 will have, definitive a 3.5
[17:10:40] <Beineri> cb400f: then we will include some Beta/RC
[17:10:47] <adrianS> maybe it makes sense to have some KDE 4 apps already
[17:10:50] <microchip_> nine: disable as much services as possible, get rid of the ones you don't need
[17:10:57] <@henne> microchip_: initng is under evaluation. but wont help much with speedup if we start the same stuff
[17:11:01] <cb400f> ok
[17:11:04] <apokryphos> Beineri: I imagine the default will be decided nearer to the time though?
[17:11:09] <microchip_> henne: ok
2 [17:11:20] <Beineri> apokryphos: yes
[17:11:35] <@henne> okay any other questions?
[17:11:40] <captain_magnus> Yes
[17:11:49] <@henne> i would like to do those from the wiki
[17:11:54] <@henne> captain_magnus: shoot :)
[17:11:56] <microchip_> I noticed the new design of the bootsplash for 10.3, will there be a blue one too?
[17:11:58] <nine> I hope I can do some testing on the weekend on how much time one can actually save by having just one script that starts all the services with the parameters they get. Without all that configuration reading and stuff.
[17:12:16] <apokryphos> microchip_: two bootsplashes? Not likely
[17:12:17] <captain_magnus> What about the zypper bugs at the moment... The fact that it downloads at least 35mb worth of data to delete/add an inst source
[17:12:35] <AlbertoP> microchip_, let it be green :)
2 [17:12:42] <microchip_> apokryphos: no, just a blueish one, it looks nice in blue ;)
[17:12:54] <apokryphos> microchip_: 10.3 is green :P
[17:13:02] <microchip_> bah
[17:13:02] <adrianS> I have seen already great improved benchmarks, which show a significant speedup in zypp using binary caches
[17:13:03] <apokryphos> I just find it really odd that the desktop wallpaper is blue, but anyway...
[17:13:06] <microchip_> i'll make it blue
[17:13:13] <adrianS> so this will speed up yast and zypper
[17:13:19] <adrianS> and openSUSE updater
[17:13:21] <apokryphos> captain_magnus: there's going to be major caching with libzypp for 10.3, which will make things a lot faster
[17:13:21] <captain_magnus> And, when adding an inst source and you get a checksum error on ONE file, next time you try, it will download another 35mb
[17:13:28] <captain_magnus> instead of caching...
[17:13:40] <@henne> nine: next to nothing. parallelizing stuff isnt the issue.
[17:14:06] <captain_magnus> Ok... Happy with that answer
[17:14:13] <apokryphos> hm, Dunan's slides aren't up on the wiki I see
[17:14:18] <captain_magnus> (the "a lot faster" I mean)
[17:14:19] <@henne> there was a mail from duncan to factory about the new libzypp or? ask in that thread
[17:14:22] duncanmv: No such nick/channel
[17:14:22] adrianS needs to leave in 15 minutes jfyi
[17:14:25] <cb400f> captain_magnus: and the sources shouldn't be refreshed when starting inst_source moule
[17:14:45] <@henne> okay we should take all this offline
[17:14:47] <apokryphos> captain_magnus: there was a talk about this at fosdem too, with explanation of how it will work
[17:14:50] <bgerber> FOSEM slides from all presentations recordings?
[17:14:51] <apokryphos> the slides/video isn't up yet though
[17:14:52] <nine> henne: I'm not talking about parallelizing stuff. I'm talking about thousands of lines of shellscripts running to get the right parameters for the right handful of daemons that get started the same on every boot. I'm just curious.
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[17:15:07] <captain_magnus> Well, at the moment, if I use zypper to DELETE an inst source it will refresh THE one I want to delete before actually getting rid of it :-(
[17:15:14] <captain_magnus> anyways... Moving on
[17:15:16] <@henne> videos will come later. jw is encoding ATM
[17:15:23] <@henne> please people
[17:15:31] <@henne> this is about status
[17:15:37] <@henne> not about bug discussions
[17:15:42] <microchip_> heh
[17:15:55] <@henne> so questions from the wiki
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[17:16:11] <@henne> 1. Does the look and feel of the installer will be improve?
[17:16:20] <@henne> michl19?
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[17:16:37] <michl19> no plans atm
[17:16:44] <@henne> thats what i hear
[17:16:49] <@henne> i talked to some people and it isnt the focus for 10.3
[17:17:20] <apokryphos> I think it would be nice. A lot of people sadly presume that the distro hasn't changed much since the installer's the same
[17:17:29] <@henne> do you guys really think we would gain something with that?
[17:17:30] <apokryphos> dang
[17:17:35] <captain_magnus> michl19: I realize that it might not be the focus for 10.3, but since the YaST installer is themable, why not let people create themes and then we can see what the "community" say about it
[17:17:40] <@henne> except eye candy...
[17:17:40] <nine> So what is the focus for 10.3? AJ got some suggestions on FOSDEM. Would be interesting which of them will actually be used.
[17:18:06] <@henne> nine: as the roadmap isnt done yet this is still discussed
[17:18:21] <captain_magnus> I don't see it as eye candy... You need to think about the installer as "First impression last"... The current installer is really boring!
[17:18:50] <captain_magnus> Can anyone here actually tell me that they LIKE the look&feel of the installer?
[17:18:57] <cb400f> I do
[17:19:00] <nine> me too
[17:19:11] <cb400f> I think other issues are more important too
[17:19:17] <michl19> it does its work and that's most important for me
[17:19:18] <microchip_> i don't care for it since i run the installer only ones, to install the system :)
[17:19:35] AlbertoP agrees with cb400f Oo
[17:19:46] cb400f thought AlbertoP wanted gtk installer
[17:19:53] <microchip_> lol
[17:19:57] <cboltz> I also (but I don't really care) - however a tetris tab would help against "boring" ;-)
[17:20:02] <apokryphos> it is a big issue for new users. I got a Fedora DVD the other day, but it didn't have a live session so I didn't even try it
[17:20:16] <AlbertoP> nah, I see that once, can live with every working installer :P
[17:20:26] <@henne> okay
[17:20:34] <@henne> does not seem to be an issue
[17:20:43] <@henne> captain_magnus do you already have a theme ready?
[17:20:52] <captain_magnus> But no one actually said that they LIKE the current installer...
[17:21:03] <AlbertoP> captain_magnus, what's wrong with it?
[17:21:17] <captain_magnus> henne: No, I'm not a designer... But I can get some mockups and send it to the ML
[17:21:39] <captain_magnus> AlbertoP: It's just plain boring... You need to understand what NEW users think when they see it...
[17:21:44] <microchip_> btw, has something changed the way YaST initializes devices before installing? i see a lot of people on the SLS forum complaining that 10.2 hangs for them but 10.1 works and installs
[17:21:45] <AlbertoP> captain_magnus, did you see tango icons will be used? :-)
[17:21:49] <@henne> captain_magnus: please do. maybe we can get some traction this way
[17:21:55] <cb400f> captain_magnus: new users are used to XP
[17:21:59] <apokryphos> AlbertoP: an install from a live session would be a lot nicer of course, but it sure isn't easy
[17:22:09] <@henne> okay details
[17:22:19] <captain_magnus> cb400f: Let's not compare ourselfs to windows... Let's do something better!
2 [17:22:21] <AlbertoP> apokryphos, it almost _never_ works on ubuntu, just to cite
[17:22:45] <apokryphos> AlbertoP: for you? It works for thousands of others (Mandriva, MEPIS, etc)
[17:22:53] <@henne> people
[17:23:06] <AlbertoP> captain_magnus, sorry but I thing yast is one of the best installers around. Mandriva's is similar, others has text intallers...
[17:23:11] <@henne> this is a status meeting. do i have to make it moderated again? :)
[17:23:12] <microchip_> henne: do you know ?
[17:23:17] <captain_magnus> henne: I'll make sure we get some mockups for a "new" look&feel...
[17:23:26] <@henne> captain_magnus: cool!
[17:23:42] <@henne> microchip_: nope
[17:23:44] <@henne> next question from the wiki
[17:23:57] <@henne> Does opensuse 10.3 will include tomcat 6?
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[17:24:20] <@henne> take that to opensuse-factory and it will be answered
[17:24:44] <@henne> next questions
[17:24:47] <@henne> Will there be a more attractive standard icon set for 10.3?
[17:24:50] <Beineri> We will not change the icon set of KDE3, but KDE4 will use a new icon theme called Oxygen ( http://www.oxygen-icons.org/?cat=3 ).
[17:25:25] <@henne> okay
[17:25:28] <captain_magnus> jimmac: You there? What about GNOME?
[17:25:52] <cb400f> Beineri: how about yast-qt?.. and will yast be ported to qt4?
[17:26:19] <Beineri> cb400f: there are thoughts to port it for 10.3, otherwise later :-)
[17:26:41] <cb400f> good
[17:26:57] <@henne> okay next questions from the wiki
[17:27:00] <@henne> Are tehere any plans to work on the patterns in Software Management for 10.3?
[17:27:04] <Beineri> migration ot KDE 4 will be by far not finished with 10.3 :-)
[17:27:04] <jimmac> captain_magnus, oxygen's great. Plays better with tango.
[17:27:34] <@henne> jimmac: so will we use something different in 10.3? :)
[17:28:12] <jimmac> henne, gnome side of things follows the tango style guidelines
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[17:28:31] <@henne> okay
[17:28:54] <@henne> cthiel: do you know about pattern work?
[17:29:27] <cthiel> henne: no
[17:29:35] <cthiel> henne: what's the exact question...
[17:29:38] <jimmac> as new modules are created in tango style anyway, I'd like to see the tango yast icon theme in opensuse as well...
[17:29:40] <@henne> okay. something for opensuse-factory then
[17:29:41] <cthiel> henne: I can proxy it to aj
[17:29:51] <bgerber> I know AJ has done some see factory list
[17:30:02] Beineri agrees that some packages (eg Firefox, OOo) should rather be recommended instead of required in some patterns... people, complain to AJ and he will fix it :-)
[17:30:22] Nix waves to henne, cthiel and all the other beer drinkers on the channel :-)
[17:30:29] <@henne> okay
[17:30:33] <@henne> next and last question from the wiki: Is there a call for a minimal install option for 10.3 with a single CD alternative?
[17:30:39] <cthiel> hey Nix :)
[17:30:40] <@henne> michl19
[17:30:51] <@henne> how far are we with discussions about that?
[17:31:05] <cthiel> henne: I can take that one.
[17:31:11] henne throws a beer at Nix
[17:31:14] <michl19> we try to get a 1CD version
[17:31:14] <@henne> cthiel: sure
[17:31:30] <cthiel> right, we are looking into the different options right now -- from a technical standpoint.
[17:31:31] <michl19> aj, chtiel and others are in discussion currently
[17:31:38] <cthiel> exactly.
[17:31:41] <Beineri> michl19: what will it contain?
[17:31:47] <cthiel> Beineri: to early to ask
[17:31:56] <@henne> what are the options?
[17:32:05] <apokryphos> seperate KDE/GNOME CDs
[17:32:20] <cthiel> doing a combined live/install CD might be one, for example
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[17:33:01] <@henne> when will you discuss this on opensuse-factory? :)
[17:33:02] <cthiel> another one would be to only have a minimal set of packages on one cd and get the rest from the net.
[17:33:07] <cthiel> henne: of course?
[17:33:16] <@henne> when..
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[17:33:32] <michl19> we can start this pretty soon
[17:33:34] <cthiel> no timeline yet -- but except this to happen sometime within the next weeks
[17:33:35] <apokryphos> cthiel: any ideas on how realistic the live+install CD is at this time?
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2 [17:34:16] <cthiel> apokryphos: ~70% maybe?
[17:34:18] henne books a faster typing course for cthiel
[17:34:20] <Beineri> cthiel/michl19: talking about live/install, there is an open question on opensuse-project if we could make a promo DVD torrent available?
[17:34:25] <apokryphos> nice
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[17:34:31] cthiel is one the phone right now.
[17:34:32] <michl19> it's realistic - the question is when - in 10.3 timefram or later
[17:35:00] <Uranellus> is there a chance that there will be install type "server" which will be really minimalistic?
[17:35:04] <apokryphos> Beineri: yeah, adrianS said that will be done, but I'm not sure what's going on
[17:35:34] <@henne> Uranellus: whats wrong with minimal + the different server patterns?
[17:35:46] <@henne> adrianS is gone....
[17:36:03] nine dreams about a server install where one doesn't need a hammer to prevent it from installing Mesa and Gnome stuff...
[17:36:13] <Uranellus> henne: still kind of large (~420 packages) for a server (e.g.) cups is not required ..
[17:36:23] <captain_magnus> Not knowing to much about the openSUSE project, what sort of time frames do we have to actually try to change things (look&feel of installer, packages included etc etc)
[17:36:57] <nine> henne: you have to break requirements of the Base package to actually get a server without x11 installed...
[17:37:05] <nine> s/package/pattern/
[17:37:17] <@henne> nine: the those are bugs and you should report them :)
[17:37:28] <nine> I will happily do that :)
[17:38:01] <@henne> captain_magnus: we have factory to work one and stabilize once we go into to beta phase
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[17:38:39] <@henne> okay next topic?
[17:38:46] <nine> So how look will it be till beta phase? (couple of weeks, months, years?)
[17:39:09] <@henne> michl19: you know preliminary plans...
[17:39:16] <michl19> we're targeting launch sometime Aug-early Oct
[17:39:26] <nine> So there's some time left
[17:39:32] <michl19> Beta roughly starts 2 months prior
[17:39:32] <@henne> yes
[17:39:50] <nine> As this is a status meeting: you said, that people inside the company currently do mostly SLES. What about the community? Anything interesting going on in that part?
[17:39:55] <bgerber> freeze?
[17:40:24] <@henne> nine: there is a lot of project work going on in the buildservice
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[17:40:49] <@henne> but i dont know specifics
[17:40:55] cthiel is out of here -- bye folks.
[17:41:04] <@henne> next topic?
[17:41:26] <@henne> 2. Status Communications
[17:41:45] <@henne> as localhorst isnt there either i take it
[17:42:00] <@henne> there are 2 wikis in the pipeline
[17:42:27] <@henne> but next week is CEBIT ( visit us there :) and i dont know if localhorst will make them before that
[17:43:03] <@henne> there are currently a lot of discussions on opensuse-wiki how we can clean up the wiki
[17:43:21] <@henne> please join them as the wiki as it is is pretty horrible
[17:43:43] <@henne> its mostly moving articles to namespaces, categorys and so on
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[17:43:52] <@henne> see the wiki team page for details
[17:44:25] <@henne> mailinglists: i have another couple of project that will move the mailinglists to opensuse.org
[17:44:47] <@henne> there is no concrete ETA yet
[17:44:56] <@henne> but it will happen this month probably
[17:45:05] <@henne> thats it i think
[17:45:27] <@henne> any questions regarding communications?
[17:45:40] <Beineri> -testing still needs to be announced iirc
[17:45:53] <bgerber> What major conference are planned to be attended?
[17:45:55] <@henne> Beineri: holgi did so at fosdem i think
[17:45:58] <cboltz> When will some old, but minor wiki issues be fixed?
[17:46:06] <cboltz> I'm thinking of en.opensuse.org/FAQ (fixable by rm)
[17:46:09] <Beineri> henne: yeah, but not everyone was at fosdem? :-)
[17:46:12] <@henne> bgerber: that will come in the events section
[17:46:28] <cboltz> and setting the cursor to the username field at login
[17:46:30] <@henne> Beineri: i was there. isnt that enough? ;)
[17:46:32] <michl19> LinuxTag Berlin is planned
[17:46:38] <@henne> ok i make it an AI for localhorst
[17:46:49] <@henne> PLEASE
[17:46:49] <@henne> events in the events section
[17:46:55] henne cracks the whip
[17:47:12] <captain_magnus> henne: Is there some kind of voting module available for the WIKI?
[17:47:15] <@henne> cboltz: are they in bugzilla?
[17:47:27] <cboltz> yes, since very long time ;-)
[17:47:33] <apokryphos> Beineri: it's too active already -- the announcement might make it collapse ;)
[17:47:59] <@henne> captain_magnus: not that i know of no
[17:48:04] <@henne> cboltz: ping there then :)
[17:48:07] <captain_magnus> henne: k...
[17:48:28] cboltz has doubts if pinging another time really helps
[17:48:31] <@henne> okay next tlopic?
[17:48:34] <@henne> -l
[17:49:06] <@henne> 3. Status BuildService
[17:49:09] <@henne> bauersman?
[17:49:19] <bauersman> ok
[17:49:32] <bauersman> there are two backend issues
[17:49:41] <bauersman> first one is XEN making some problems
[17:50:09] <bauersman> and second one is some race condition causing the 'no log file' error
[17:50:21] <bauersman> cause for both is identified
[17:50:29] <bauersman> and they will be fixed soon
[17:50:51] <bauersman> frontend and webclient will be deployed tomorrow
[17:51:06] <bauersman> bringing some enhancements in the tagging sector
[17:51:10] <bauersman> and bugfixes
[17:51:36] <bauersman> thats it from my side
[17:51:46] <@henne> any questions regarding the buildservice?
[17:51:48] <bauersman> any questions?
[17:51:55] <captain_magnus> bauersman: Any plans to make package repositories "look like on"?
[17:52:12] <bauersman> what do you mean?
[17:52:31] <captain_magnus> Ie... If I add an installation source to x.y.z/buildservice, I will see all packages in buldservice
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[17:52:37] <@henne> one big repository?
[17:52:45] <bauersman> ah
[17:52:54] <bauersman> there are plans afaik
[17:52:56] <captain_magnus> Or I guess, an even better example, have /bs/official and /bs/commnity
[17:53:19] <@henne> that does not make sense
[17:53:20] <bauersman> you mean, you add a repository and get all the repos below too?
[17:53:26] <@henne> the buildservice is project based
[17:53:54] <@henne> bauersman: he means one big repository that contains all rpms from the BS i think...
[17:53:55] <captain_magnus> Yes, but people will be paranoid.. So they would want one official repositiry (SUSE) and one unofficial one (Community)
[17:53:56] <bauersman> ah
[17:54:02] <bauersman> no, that makes no sense at all
[17:54:12] <cboltz> what about a "all games" repo grouping games:*? (same for all projects with sub-projects)
[17:54:15] <@henne> this is totally not what we want to do with the buildservice
[17:54:18] <bauersman> eventually, there will be a huge number of projects
[17:54:35] <bauersman> cboltz: yes, that was what I understood first
[17:54:42] <bauersman> we talked about that a few times
[17:54:43] <captain_magnus> So how will John Doe trust the package he downloads?
[17:54:52] <@henne> captain_magnus: for 10.3 we want to make it easier to add and handle repos
[17:55:06] duncanmv: No such nick/channel
[17:55:17] <bauersman> cboltz: but there are some problems with multiple added repos then
[17:55:29] <@henne> captain_magnus: one click repo-add
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[17:55:52] <@henne> see the fosdem slides from AJ
[17:55:57] <cboltz> -v please - I can't imagine why this would cause problems ;-)
[17:55:59] <apokryphos> and duncan
[17:56:04] <captain_magnus> henne: If we can solve the issue about trust, then I'm all for ONE huge repo...
[17:56:22] <benJIman> captain_magnus: there is already the key import warnings etc
[17:56:27] <captain_magnus> But if we can't guarantee anything, then we need an official one and one unofficial one...
[17:56:27] <nine> So, will repositories get proper names instead of 200702...
[17:56:30] <@henne> captain_magnus: we dont want that. especially not something like core and extras
[17:56:43] <bauersman> cboltz: ah now I understand... sorry was a bit confused... we talked abizt this a few times too
[17:56:47] <apokryphos> some info also at http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/bweber/entry/more_metapackage_possibilities/
[17:56:50] <bauersman> cboltz: but I don't know the status
[17:56:52] <cb400f> nine: that's already fixed according to bugzilla
[17:56:53] <captain_magnus> henne: Why not?
[17:56:59] <nine> cb400f: nice to hear :)
[17:57:23] <cb400f> nine: in a1+.. yast inst-source has option to name repos
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[17:57:43] <@henne> captain_magnus: i can tell you later or you read up on the mailinglists :) this would take too long
[17:57:45] <cb400f> .. says bugzilla
[17:57:45] <benJIman> YOu can name them with zypper in 10.2 iirc
[17:57:52] <cb400f> yes
[17:58:06] <apokryphos> just zypper sa URL name
[17:58:23] <Nix> can you rename existing repos?
[17:58:24] <@henne> okay anything else regarding the buildservice?
[17:58:25] <apokryphos> or it can use the .repo files with -r IIRC
[17:58:26] <Beineri> but these names don't show up in YaST (and in Factory also not everywhere)
[17:58:27] <captain_magnus> henne: Phew.... Ok, I will try to catch up then (yes, I'm gulty of having ignore both these status meetings and the ML for a while!)
[17:58:38] <bauersman> Nix: no
[17:58:40] <Nix> ok
[17:59:03] <Nix> I would definately make things easier to be able to see the name of a repo in yast...
[17:59:27] <apokryphos> I still think some sections in the OBS could do with being reorganised, otherwise things will really get out of hand
[17:59:36] <@henne> can someone bugzilla that?
[17:59:38] <apokryphos> like does banshee need its own repo?
[17:59:43] <cboltz> Nix: zypper sr should help ;-)
[18:00:11] <@henne> okay next topic?
[18:00:34] <@henne> 4. Events
[18:00:37] <@henne> michl19?
[18:00:52] <michl19> CeBIT next week
[18:01:04] <michl19> LinuxTag May 31 - June 2nd, Berlin
[18:01:22] <michl19> perhaps LWE, San Francisco in August
[18:01:30] <@henne> will we have a openSUSE Day at linuxtag again?
[18:01:37] <michl19> some presence at akademy
[18:01:51] <michl19> we try to get an openSUSE Day there again
[18:02:08] <bgerber> we really need LWE
[18:02:40] <michl19> ah, and Linuxfest Northwest
[18:02:44] <michl19> I think in April
[18:02:54] <@henne> whats that?
[18:02:54] <Beineri> where is that?
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[18:03:16] <Beineri> http://www.linuxfestnorthwest.org/
[18:04:08] <Beineri> 800 visitors doesn't sound that big
[18:04:10] <@henne> any questions regarding events?
[18:04:13] <cb400f> hehe.. northwest.. close to redmond ;-)
[18:04:37] <michl19> and LugRadio Live 2007, 7th-8th July 2007
[18:04:47] <michl19> UK
[18:05:09] <michl19> http://www.lugradio.org/live/2007/index.php/Main_Page
[18:05:56] Beineri reads Nat and Ted will be there
[18:06:20] <@henne> anything else regarding events?
[18:06:43] <@henne> okay then next and last topic
[18:06:45] <@henne> Q/A
[18:06:47] <Beineri> michl19: please update the Events wiki page with events where we will be present
[18:06:56] <michl19> will do ;-)
[18:06:57] <cboltz> Is there some type of community sponsoring planned?
[18:07:11] <michl19> what do you mean?
[18:07:21] <michl19> sponsoring of events?
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[18:07:33] <@henne> sponsoring of people going to events
[18:07:48] <michl19> no
[18:07:57] <cboltz> henne: exactly
[18:08:19] <@henne> we so need that....
[18:08:32] <michl19> no general sponsoring of community travel is planned
[18:08:32] <apokryphos> that's a shame; I could afford going to FOSDEM fine but I think it might be nice to sponsor community people who want to do talks etc
[18:08:43] <michl19> but there could be exceptions
[18:09:05] <michl19> giving a talk might be an example
[18:09:29] <@henne> booth duty should also be one...
[18:09:33] <michl19> yes
[18:10:10] <@henne> okay
[18:10:16] <@henne> next topic now?
[18:10:21] <michl19> go on
[18:10:45] <@henne> 1. Only in a few regions, there are legal problems with some multimedia formats (e.g. MP3). I think, it is good to add a section in YOU to add the missing multimedia formats.
[18:11:14] <apokryphos> Aj mentioned at FOSDEM that in 10.3 that you might be able to add installation sources before the install starts
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[18:11:22] <captain_magnus> henne: Can't belive you even brought it up... But since you did... Can I have it... Please... :D
[18:11:30] <@henne> we already ship everything that is legaly possible
[18:11:33] cb400f wonders when new helix will be out and (more or less) solve that
[18:11:43] <apokryphos> in that case you could add any third party repository you want before you install, and hence get any extra packages
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[18:12:19] <@henne> second question: Cant we have a gaming edition of opensuse ?
[18:12:25] apokryphos chuckles
[18:12:30] <@henne> define gaming edition please and come back :)
[18:12:47] cb400f would like NWN 2 and SBK 2001
[18:13:00] <@henne> or better start that project yourself :)
[18:13:10] <@henne> thats it from the wiki
[18:13:17] <@henne> any general quations here?
[18:13:33] <@henne> captain_magnus: can you have what?
[18:13:44] <nine> shouldn't shipping libdvdcss be legal, since it's no copy protection?
[18:13:46] <apokryphos> http://en.opensuse.org/Making_a_DVD_from_CDs may help
[18:13:50] <captain_magnus> henne: Can I have all the codecs please :)
[18:14:08] <benJIman> nine: not for an american company, thanks to DMCA etc
[18:14:33] <captain_magnus> Honestly, since you brought it up... Have we been thinking of making it easier to build a PVR with openSUSE? (ie MythTV or similare)
[18:14:54] <apokryphos> err, I mean http://en.opensuse.org/Making_a_SUSE_based_distribution
[18:14:57] <@henne> captain_magnus: you would need to be able to legaly ship it. which we are not
[18:14:58] <Nix> captain_magnus: that would be an interesting project to do with "kiwi"...
[18:15:12] <captain_magnus> I think I said it before "Don't compare us with windows" but... I think it's an important aspect of the distro...
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[18:15:56] <captain_magnus> Guys, forget about the legal aspects... Anyone is able to show something that comes out of a tv card eh?
[18:16:37] <@henne> there are numerous PVR packages out there...
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[18:17:11] <@henne> but they all need multimedia which we cant ship
[18:17:17] <@henne> any other general questions?
[18:17:21] <captain_magnus> More often than not, I see that windows do their media center (or what ever it's called) and Linux doesn't stand a chance... So I would like to see a pattern called "PVR" that installes MyhthTV etc...
[18:17:44] <Nix> captain_magnus: you still need codecs to compress..
[18:17:45] <cb400f> Beineri: will we have a choice of kde3/kde4 during installation?
[18:17:54] <nine> Nix: you mean like vorbis and theora?
[18:17:59] <Nix> maybe you could record to ogg theora and vorbis...
[18:18:02] <Nix> yeah
[18:18:03] <Beineri> cb400f: you mean, no choice to install GNOME? ;-)
[18:18:11] <nine> Beineri: excellent idea!
[18:18:13] <apokryphos> cb400f: hasn't been decided yet. I think one of them will just be default, depending on the status of kde4 closer to the time
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[18:18:23] <cb400f> Beineri: I mean KDE 3, KDE 4, GNOME, Other
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[18:18:31] <Beineri> cb400f: hope so
[18:18:44] <@henne> Nothing else?
[18:19:42] <@henne> Then thank you for participating. See you next time which will be at the 21th, same time same channel
[18:19:47] <@henne> good night and good luck