Meetings/Status Meeting 2007-02-21/transcript

From openSUSE

(18:00:20)  notlocalhorst:  Welcome to the status meeting ... as usual the agenda first:
10.3
wiki
build service
events planning
Q & A 
(18:00:23)  aka_druid_:  does that prevent people from installing worms? 
(18:00:29)  aka_druid_:  =X 
(18:00:34)  microchip_:  lol 
(18:00:34)  notlocalhorst:  as usual aj starts :-) 
(18:00:44)  M3:  aka_druid, take a look at this. it may be a small sample but it gives you an idea of what we are actually doing with the update system: http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/index.php?showtopic=51386 
(18:01:21)  notlocalhorst:  could you please top talking or join #opensuse? as long the meeting is going on, thanks 
(18:01:23)  notlocalhorst:  aj? 
(18:02:17)  notlocalhorst:  aj? :-) 
(18:02:28)  microchip_:  give him a minute :) 
(18:02:28)  aka_druid_:   pokes AJaeger with a stick 
(18:02:29)  adrianS:  AJaeger he is called ... 
(18:02:31)  notlocalhorst:  thx beinery 
(18:02:40)  Beineri:  Beineri he is called :-) 
(18:02:48)  AJaeger:  notlocalhorst: Here I am! 
(18:02:56)  notlocalhorst:  please start with status 10.3 
(18:03:25)  AJaeger:  notlocalhorst: Ok, let's go ahead.  I shouldn't have shown up earlier and get distracted by opensuse-updater topics ;-) 
(18:04:00)  AJaeger:  We released last week Alpha1 and my announcement had some typos - there's no OOo 2.1.3 - there's only OpenOffice.org 2.1 ;-) 
(18:04:37)  Beineri:  nevermind, we will have OOo 2.2 soon :-) 
(18:04:40)  AJaeger:  If you're using factory: We had some breakage in it yesterday and today where libstdc++ was build without versioning.  You would get errors about a missing "libstdc++ (CXX...1.3)" 
(18:04:48)  AJaeger:  This should be fixed with the next sync of factory. 
(18:05:16)  AJaeger:  In factory we've started to migrate to GNOME 2.18 beta - and that's basically all the exiting news I have for 10.3 right now. 
(18:05:39)  AJaeger:  I'll talk at FOSDEM about 10.3 and will make my slides available to everybody so that you can then ask further questions ;-) 
(18:06:04)  cb400f:  eta for roadmap? 
(18:06:16)  G_Rammstein:  you mean kde won't be default anymore?? 
(18:06:54)  adrianS:  G_Rammstein: neither gnome nor kde are default in yast and that will not change 
(18:07:16)  AJaeger:  Any questions right now?  Otherwise I answer those on the wiki raised for today's meeting. 
(18:07:16)  AJaeger:  cb400f: Another four weeks.  we continue with alphas every four weeks. 
(18:07:17)  AJaeger:  I would like to release 10.3 at the end of september but need to double check this plan a bit more. 
(18:07:19)  AJaeger:  mc asked: does the design of the installer will be improved? suse use the same old design for them installer, if you check xandros, linspire... have a better design. 
(18:07:43)  AJaeger:  What exactly do you mean with design?  The look and feel - or the 
(18:07:44)  AJaeger:  architecture.  The architecture is getting improved, join us at 
(18:07:44)  AJaeger:  FOSDEM for the talk about "Common package and patch management 
(18:07:44)  AJaeger:  for SUSE Linux".  We really need to be faster.  Our installer does more things than the xandros, linspire etc. ones.  I suggest to discuss this on the opensuse-factory mailing list. 
(18:07:56)  AJaeger:  mc asked: on any linux forum, we can read suse is slow. Not a lot responsive if we compare to other linux distribution, very long boot time, What suse will do to improve the performance? 
(18:08:21)  AJaeger:  Do you have any benchmarks?  I'm really interested in improving the boot time (no, suspend to RAM is not the solution ;-).  The question is what is the best way to do it. 
(18:08:30)  aka_druid_:  mc could come with some benchmarks or cases 
(18:08:36)  AJaeger:  If anybody has some really good ideas, please speak up. 
(18:08:41)  AJaeger:  aka_druid_: Yes, agreed. 
(18:08:51)  AJaeger:   m.f. asked: is there any chance that 10.3 will include kde4? 
(18:08:59)  microchip_:  errr, I wouldn't say suse is slow on booting, if you disable services you don't need, it's pretty fast here, boots under 30 sec on a P4@2.4 
(18:09:00)  AJaeger:  Beineri, will you answer? 
(18:09:28)  Beineri:  KDE 4 is not even at Alpha stage yet, and likely will only release (parts of) KDE 4 after 10.3 release date 
(18:09:31)  AJaeger:  microchip_: Which services should get disabled?  If you have list, please send them to me (aj@suse.de) and I'll work with the folks to disable them. 
(18:09:54)  Beineri:  Nevertheless we started working on shipping (parts of) KDE 4 as workplace shell on 10.3 
(18:09:55)  microchip_:  Ajaeger; I'll make a list for them 
(18:09:58)  AJaeger:  Whenever I notice something that should not run, I file a bug - but I haven't been very thorough yet. 
(18:10:43)  Beineri:  there will be an easy way to update to the final KDE 4 release at end of year I think :-) 
(18:10:45)  AJaeger:  I hope that we will be "early adoptors of KDE 4" in 10.3 - and might have a stable KDE 3.5.x as fallback. 
(18:10:52)  AJaeger:  Beineri: Yes, I agree. 
(18:11:06)  AJaeger:  yamaban asked: Could you maintainers bump the http-proxy 'privoxy' Version 3.0.6 (is in factory) as update for 10.2 (version 3.0.5-beta)? 
(18:11:07)  AJaeger:  My tests have shown no trouble in the config - read it can use the exiting config exept for default.action, reason is string "for-privoxy-version=3.0.5". Thanks 
(18:11:17)  M3:  i have a question 
(18:11:21)  AJaeger:  We're not doing such updates in general for a released product. 
(18:11:37)  AJaeger:  M3: Go ahead - I just continue answering yamaban's question first. 
(18:11:46)  M3:  is there any chance you guys can look into correecting the font paths that x11 looks at. coz they are wrong in 10.2 
(18:11:53)  Beineri:  the question is we include it in the release media and then make a huge YOU update, or ship it as additional CD (like the proprietary one) 
(18:12:05)  M3:  i had issues setting up realvnc the other because of it 
(18:12:13)  AJaeger:  But http-proxy should be updated for 10.3 and if this is not done in the next weeks, I suggest to file a bug report. 
(18:12:33)  AJaeger:  M3: Please file a bugreport in our bugzilla. 
(18:12:39)  M3:  will do 
(18:12:46)  AJaeger:  Any further questions? 
(18:12:59)  microchip_:  yes 
(18:13:17)  microchip_:  is there a way to improve the YaST loading, particular the submodules of it 
(18:13:25)  microchip_:  like the partitioner 
(18:14:12)  notlocalhorst:  whats with the partitioner? 
(18:14:14)  AJaeger:  wait a second... 
(18:14:39)  microchip_:  nothing, it's just that YasT loads fast but its modules load a bit slow, imo 
(18:14:44)  AJaeger:  ok, back - just needed to answer my phone :-( 
(18:14:46)  adrianS:  microchip_: you think this one is slower than others ? 
(18:15:02)  microchip_:  no, i just picked a random module 
(18:15:18)  AJaeger:  microchip_: Some of them could use some speedup but there's nothing really planned right now. 
(18:15:19)  G_Rammstein:  i think mc, that the slowes modules ar the software management ones 
(18:15:26)  G_Rammstein:  imo, those load the hardest 
(18:15:38)  AJaeger:  G_Rammstein: Software management is the one that we do plan to make fast. 
(18:15:46)  microchip_:  ok AJaeger 
(18:16:06)  notlocalhorst:  anything else about 10.3/distribution? 
(18:16:08)  microchip_:  yes, like G_Rammstein said, parsing of meta-data can take some time too 
(18:16:31)  notlocalhorst:  ok, lets go on 
(18:16:40)  apokryphos:  that's being worked on for 10.3; more caching with libzypp 
(18:16:47)  microchip_:  nice 
(18:16:52)  notlocalhorst:  wiki: 
(18:17:06)  notlocalhorst:  nothing new from my side, no time for the new wikis atm, so zh_tw and ro are still in the queue ...
something from you darix? 
(18:17:07)  cb400f:  AJaeger: any news on helix with support for windows media formats? 
(18:17:22)  G_Rammstein:  oh, i just remembered...if you install the latest nvidia driver, kde's control center will show a different refresh rate, than the real one...will that be fixed??or is that a kde problem?? 
(18:17:32)  AJaeger:  cb400f: We're at wiki right now ;-)  - otherwise: no news. 
(18:17:38)  notlocalhorst:  hehe 
(18:17:39)  apokryphos:  notlocalhorst: darix isn't in here; in -buildservice though it seems 
(18:17:54)  notlocalhorst:  then he have nothing new :-)  
(18:18:00)  notlocalhorst:  questions about the wiki? 
(18:18:14)  AJaeger:  G_Rammstein: We're at wiki right now - and we do not really support the nvidia driver.  If you have a patch for it, we would add it. 
(18:18:28)  Beineri:  what are the next steps regarding web design consolidation? 
(18:19:09)  notlocalhorst:  Frank is not here ... so far i can only say that the feedback was quite good, so it seems to be some of the design he presented 
(18:19:12)  Beineri:   guesses we will have a second draft? 
(18:19:25)  apokryphos:  a html one too, hopefully 
(18:19:27)  notlocalhorst:  nothing is fixed yet 
(18:19:33)  notlocalhorst:  apokryphos: sure 
(18:19:47)  apokryphos:  it looks very pretty so far; looking forward to it :) 
(18:20:03)  notlocalhorst:  me too ...  
(18:20:11)  notlocalhorst:  ok, other questions about wiki? 
(18:21:02)  notlocalhorst:  ok, lets go to the next topic, buildservice ... adrianS? 
(18:21:29)  adrianS:  k, we got fixes for the most annoying bugs since the XEN builds 
(18:21:45)  adrianS:  so we have uptimes for more than 24h with the build hosts back :) 
(18:22:03)  adrianS:  there are currently two possible races, which can break the setup of a build system 
(18:22:16)  adrianS:  it happens from time to time, but rarely 
(18:22:28)  adrianS:  we also got a new deployment of the api and the web gui 
(18:22:49)  adrianS:  beside quite some fixes and small improvements, you can find a status box on the monitor page now 
(18:23:03)  adrianS:  it shows you that we are in "yellow" state because of the race bugs ;) 
(18:23:18)  adrianS:  the obs packages itself have also updated 
(18:23:19)  microchip_:  nice feature :) 
(18:23:28)  adrianS:  if you run your own instance 
(18:23:49)  adrianS:  Dirk Stoecker did post the most fixes the last week, so special thanks to him :) 
(18:24:09)  adrianS:  We are also very short before official support LiveDVDs via kiwi 
(18:24:24)  adrianS:  so everybody can make your own taste of a LiveDVD 
(18:24:26)  adrianS:  or CD 
(18:24:40)  adrianS:  to present your own application on some fairs for example 
(18:25:03)  adrianS:  we will also provide config files to create LiveDVDs with future openSUSE distribution releases 
(18:25:20)  adrianS:  so the mirrors do not have to carry the iso files, but everyone can create one 
(18:25:35)  adrianS:  davey: anything to add regarding your web improvements ? 
(18:25:36)  apokryphos:  sounds awesome 8). What config files? 
(18:25:43)  aka_druid_:  adrianS: isnt there a toold for that already 
(18:25:45)  apokryphos:  patterns? 
(18:25:50)  aka_druid_:  from debian? 
(18:25:55)  adrianS:  patterns can be used 
(18:26:01)  aka_druid_:  forgot the name of it... 
(18:26:05)  davey:  adrianS: add what where? 
(18:26:07)  adrianS:  apokryphos: look in the KIWI svn, the current state is already there 
(18:26:08)  Dan[ITA]:  Hi everyone! I'm trying to installa openSuse 10.2 for the first time 
(18:26:08)  aka_druid_:  jigdo? 
(18:26:16)  aka_druid_:  Dan[ITA]: support in #suse 
(18:26:20)  apokryphos:  nice, thanks 
(18:26:20)  Dan[ITA]:  ok 
(18:26:21)  Dan[ITA]:  thanks 
(18:26:26)  adrianS:  so you can already try to make a LiveDVD iso, but there are some known issues still 
(18:26:37)  notlocalhorst:  nice 
(18:26:45)  adrianS:  that's it for build service, any questions ? 
(18:27:07)  adrianS:  ah, we will discuss on the FOSDEM how the openSUSE distribution development will work in future with the OBS 
(18:27:17)  adrianS:  come, if you are interessted in this :) 
(18:27:29)  apokryphos:  any progress on factory -> OBS? 
(18:27:47)  adrianS:  apokryphos: exactly this is the topic ... 
(18:27:59)  apokryphos:  ok, looking forward to it 8) 
(18:28:05)  apokryphos:  any update on the OBS search? 
(18:28:19)  AJaeger:  microchip_, aka_druid_: I've added some comments to Bug 247385 and described what I wrote down in our feature database.  If you like to see anything further, please add it to bugzilla. 
(18:28:22)  bugbot:  Novell bug 247385 in openSUSE 10.2 (Update Problems) "Support for 3rd party repos in opensuseupdater" [Enhancement,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=247385 
(18:28:30)  adrianS:  davey: did you change anything with the obs search lately ? 
(18:28:44)  davey:  nope 
(18:28:47)  adrianS:  apokryphos: or do you speak about the anonymous user search ? 
(18:28:55)  apokryphos:  adrianS: yeah 
(18:28:59)  adrianS:  ah ... 
(18:29:17)  adrianS:  well, search is there, the point is to get also an end-user interface for the build service 
(18:29:27)  adrianS:  I do not really have an update on this 
(18:29:35)  adrianS:  but the plan exists, yes 
(18:29:55)  davey:  adrianS: in fact, there is no update on this, but it's difficult 
(18:30:12)  davey:  for that, we have to change big parts of the api/frontend 
(18:30:12)  apokryphos:  yeah, I knew it was in the works; just wondered if there's any update 
(18:30:13)  adrianS:  apokryphos: includes also voting, tag support and so on 
(18:30:18)  apokryphos:  ok, thanks 
(18:30:35)  adrianS:  k, are we done with the build service ? 
(18:30:39)  Beineri:  michl19 wanted to say something about "Sponsoring of Build Service and how to integrate further sponsors into openSUSE.org"... 
(18:30:50)  notlocalhorst:  michl19: ? 
(18:31:14)  michl19:  We're currently looking for sponsors for the Build Service - hardware, bandwith and money. 
(18:31:29)  michl19:   That's to increase performance and get broader backing for the whole project. 
(18:31:29)  michl19:  The sponsors oviously want something back - presence. We'd like to offer them logo visibility at opensuse.org, build.opensuse.org and some high frequent pages like the downlaod pages. We'd reserve one place for a logo which is used randomley by all sponsors. 
(18:31:49)  michl19:  What do you think? 
(18:32:04)  Beineri:  Who would object against more build power? :-) 
(18:32:12)  microchip_:  no one :) 
(18:32:27)  notlocalhorst:  good :-) 
(18:32:33)  michl19:  my question is, does anyone object against putting sponsor logos on opensuse.org? 
(18:32:40)  cb400f:  please don't accept MS sponsorships :-) 
(18:32:44)  notlocalhorst:  rotfl 
(18:32:46)  microchip_:  lol 
(18:32:48)  michl19:  we wont 
(18:32:48)  G_Rammstein:  depends how 
(18:32:57)  apokryphos:  please please not flashy images 
(18:33:04)  G_Rammstein:  apokryphos is right 
(18:33:16)  apokryphos:  though Konqueror has a lovely ad-blocker now, so it doesn't matter that much for me 8) 
(18:33:18)  notlocalhorst:  with a flash movie, blinking and some anoying sounds ... thats our plan :-) 
(18:33:25)  davey:  maybe we should wait with that for the new webclient design 
(18:33:50)  michl19:  no sponsor signed yet, so it'll take some time to come 
(18:33:59)  michl19:  but they are pretty interested 
(18:34:06)  michl19:  so at least they talk to us 
(18:34:14)  notlocalhorst:  michl19: was this topic already on the list? 
(18:34:35)  davey:  good. i'll send mail to rlihm, our designer, to be prepared for it 
(18:34:38)  aka_druid_:  michl19: why you wont. What if they make a very good offer? 
(18:34:40)  michl19:  the sponsor topic? 
(18:34:43)  notlocalhorst:  yes 
(18:35:02)  michl19:  have a look at: http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/Status_Meeting_2007-02-21 
(18:35:06)  michl19:  ;-) 
(18:35:16)  notlocalhorst:  ok, so lets move on .... 
(18:35:26)  notlocalhorst:  next: events 
(18:35:54)  notlocalhorst:  This weekend is FOSDEM!!, come all and meet us at our booth and visit the openSUSE  talks http://fosdem.org/2007/schedule/devroom/opensuse 
(18:36:14)  notlocalhorst:  Chemnitzer Linuxtage: Beineri and /me will be there, booth, one talk and 1/2 day at the Dr. Tux area to help other users 
(18:36:37)  notlocalhorst:  Cebit: michl & /me are at the novell booth, 3 talks about the project in Hall 5 (Sat, Sun, Wed) 
(18:36:47)  microchip_:  I would love to as I'm from Belgium, but unfortunately I have to move over the weekend so I won't be able to make it 
(18:36:54)  notlocalhorst:  Linuxtag: nothing new from my side ... michl19? 
(18:37:11)  michl19:  no, no update 
(18:37:12)  notlocalhorst:  microchip_: :-( ... next year maybe :-) 
(18:37:25)  microchip_:  definialy 
(18:37:30)  microchip_:  difinitely* 
(18:37:32)  notlocalhorst:  any questions on events? 
(18:37:58)  cb400f:  will there be videos of all opensuse devroom talks again this year? 
(18:38:04)  cb400f:  .. from fosdem 
(18:38:05)  notlocalhorst:  yes, thats the plan 
(18:38:10)  notlocalhorst:  in HD! 
(18:38:10)  microchip_:  nice 
(18:38:16)  M3:  out of interest what's the cost of getting into fosdem? 
(18:38:22)  cb400f:  free 
(18:38:33)  M3:  so just travel and expenses 
(18:38:40)  AJaeger:  M3: Just show up ;-) 
(18:39:06)  notlocalhorst:  it's really good with lot of talks about various topics ... 
(18:39:11)  M3:  i would but it's abit short notice to travel from the UK 
(18:39:21)  M3:  next year tho 
(18:39:31)  microchip_:  Ajaeger: any news on which kernel will go into 10.3. sorry for asking in the middle of another topic 
(18:39:36)  apokryphos:  M3: eurostar's great :) 
(18:40:03)  adrianS:  microchip_: the best possible one at the state of beta 1 ;) 
(18:40:10)  AJaeger:  microchip_: The one that will be released when we have beta1 ;-).  So, I expect 2.6.21 or 2.6.22.  We currently have 2.6.20 in our tree. 
(18:40:20)  microchip_:  ok, thanks 
(18:40:51)  notlocalhorst:  ok, other questions? 
(18:41:38)  notlocalhorst:  3 
(18:41:46)  notlocalhorst:  2 
(18:41:56)  adrianS:  have a nice evening 
(18:42:02)  notlocalhorst:  1 ... ok, thanks everybody, see you at fosdem! 
(18:42:06)  microchip_:  you too ;) 
(18:42:08)  notlocalhorst:   /meeting over 
(18:42:10)  Beineri:  next meeting? 
(18:42:22)  notlocalhorst:  2 weeks? 
(18:42:36)  notlocalhorst:  Beineri: please change topic back, thanks 
(18:42:45)  AJaeger:  microchip_, aka_druid_: Was my formulated feature request ok?  Or shall I write it here again... 
(18:42:47)  Beineri:  don't forget to take the survey!