Meetings/Status Meeting 2007-02-07/transcript

From openSUSE

--- Log opened Mi Feb 07
18:02:37 2007
18:00 @<henne> Welcome to the openSUSE Status Meeting!
18:00 @<henne> This meeting is meant to discuss the latest developments in and around openSUSE.
18:00 @<henne> The topics for this meeting are:
18:01 @<henne> * 1.1 Status o 1.1.1 10.3 o 1.1.2 wiki o 1.1.3 build service o 1.1.4 events planning
18:01 @<henne> * 1.2 Q & A (see questions below)
18:01 @<henne> so status 10.3
18:01 @<henne> adrianS?
18:01 <adrianS> we are in the last steps to prepare the first Alpha 1
18:02 <adrianS> We use now -fstackprotector compile option, which increases the security
18:02 <adrianS> but as usually security sometimes breaks functionality ;)
18:02 <adrianS> so we need to test this, but factory distro works fine in general
18:03 <adrianS> furthermore we decided that we want to do also regular LiveDVD images for easier testing
18:03 <bgerber> Is the factory tree now build with the option?
18:03 <adrianS> and we will of course provide the config, so that everybody can create his own (modified) live dvd himself
18:04 <adrianS> yes, it should
18:04 <adrianS> michl: anything to add regarding 10.3 features ?
18:04 <apokryphos> awesome
18:05 <adrianS> okay, lets move on ...
18:05 <adrianS> henne: ?
18:05 @<henne> okay
18:05 @<henne> next topic Status wiki
18:05 <bgerber> when will factory move to the build service?
18:05 @<henne> localhorst?
18:05 <localhorst> wiki:
18:06 <localhorst> nl and pl are anounced, see mail on announce list
18:06 @<henne> bgerber: next topic -> buildservice :)
18:06 <localhorst> not sure when i have time for next wikis
18:06 <localhorst> questions?
18:07 @<henne> not?
18:07 @<henne> okay. next topic. Status BuildService
18:07 @<henne> adrianS?
18:07 <adrianS> k, Andreas did a new deployment last week
18:07 <adrianS> so you can see all new features in the web interfaces, bugfixes and so on
18:08 <adrianS> details: http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/News
18:08 <adrianS> apart from that we have currently the improved mirror and redirector in our account
18:08 <adrianS> the test suite of the OBS gets extended
18:08 <Beineri> the great build monitor is missing on Build_Service/News :-)
18:08 <adrianS> work on the tag features
18:09 <adrianS> Beineri: feel free to add
18:09 @<henne> do we have download/deploy statistics for the BS?
18:09 <adrianS> apart from that we will need to speak about changelog handling and patch handling in the next weeks
18:10 @<henne> changelog handling?
18:10 <adrianS> which we do need in preparation for doing the distro with the build service and accept also packages and patches via the OBS
18:10 <adrianS> henne: yes, more than just appling a .changes file into %changes
18:10 <adrianS> henne: darix will work on a concept
18:10 <Beineri> %changelog :-)
18:11 <adrianS> right
18:11 @<henne> where will it be discussed?
18:11 @<henne> because we have all kinds of changelog feature we want (in general)
18:11 <adrianS> henne first within the build service team, but it will also sent to the lists
18:11 <adrianS> henne: okay, than collect them and talk with darix
18:11 <ScriptRipper> what relation is there currently between the openSUSE:Factory and the "real" factory tree?
18:12 <Beineri> real-time
18:12 <adrianS> ScriptRipper: atm, openSUSE:Factory is just a mirror of the internal factory tree
18:12 @<henne> adrianS: they are collected in on of our first meeting minutes :)
18:12 <adrianS> ScriptRipper: but a commit to the OBS Factory tree will get possible
18:13 <apokryphos> any update on a search interface to the OBS for users?
18:13 <adrianS> ScriptRipper: we just need 3 or 4 more functionalities in the OBS and some more hardware
18:13 <ScriptRipper> my questions goes deeper: what about autobuild remains in the factory tree?
18:13 <adrianS> apokryphos: not really, but you can see some of the ideas in the new web gui, like the tag support
18:14 <adrianS> ScriptRipper: I do not get you completely ?
18:14 <ScriptRipper> like: pre_checkin.sh
18:14 <apokryphos> adrianS: so will factory be moving to the OBS sometime soon?
18:14 <apokryphos> (to ask bgerber's question)
18:15 <adrianS> apokryphos: not in the next 2 month, but I want to have this happen this year definitive
18:15 <apokryphos> ok
18:15 <metavoid> adrianS, any approximate date, when will the buildservice become public?
18:15 <adrianS> so it shall be possible, that everybody can setup its own obs and use the sources to rebuild the distro
18:15 @<henne> metavoid: you public useable?
18:15 @<henne> mean*
18:16 <metavoid> henne << i mean free access for all packagers
18:16 <adrianS> metavoid: that depends on the hardware we get, we talk with lots of companies and other possibilities to achieve this
18:16 <adrianS> metavoid: but I do not want to say any date yet
18:16 <adrianS> additionally we need some functionalities
18:16 <adrianS> so you may see that we move the build hosts to XEN based hosts to prepare this
18:17 @<henne> anything else regarding the OBS?
18:17 <ScriptRipper> Do you have a process for handling public submissions to the build service?
18:17 * Beineri pleads for not ignoring all points listed on the meeting wiki page :-)...
18:17 <metavoid> adrianS, what is the way to get access to buildservice now?
18:18 <adrianS> ScriptRipper: sure, this is the plan, we need the changelog handling and the patch handling for that
18:18 <adrianS> with that everybody with an account can make submissions
18:18 <ScriptRipper> I mean: to the buildservice source code
18:19 <ScriptRipper> I mean not: bugfixing
18:19 <adrianS> ah
18:19 <apokryphos> also, speaking of bug reporting. I spoke to darix and he mentioned that something trac-like might be added for the build service, but in the meantime wouldn't it be possible to have an OBS component in bugzilla?
18:19 <adrianS> well, as usual, start with preparing patches
18:19 @<henne> ScriptRipper: you can do that now. just send a patch to the mailinglist
18:19 <adrianS> and if you do multiple good patches, you will get access to the svn ;)
18:19 <adrianS> we just need a copyright assignment for some parts
18:19 <apokryphos> since there's no way at the moment to properly make bug reports about things in the OBS, even though things like the KDE packs are so widely used
18:19 <ScriptRipper> OK, I do my best :-)
18:20 @<henne> apokryphos: you mean to report bugs in the buildservice itself or bugs in packages?
18:20 <adrianS> because they are currently also used elsewere
18:20 <apokryphos> henne: bugs in packages in the OBS
18:20 @<henne> apokryphos: adrianS and me have a RFC for that. we will present it at the FOSDEM
18:20 <apokryphos> cool
18:21 <adrianS> and discuss it there and send it afterwards to the lists / wiki
18:21 @<henne> among other missing links for the user side of the BS...
18:21 <adrianS> okay, any open question regarding OBS ?
18:21 <Beineri> how to hand over package maintenance to community?
18:21 <metavoid> adrianS, a made a request by means of form at build-service site, without any reply...
18:22 <apokryphos> Beineri: and what kind of packages are we talking here?
18:22 @<henne> Beineri: yes things like that
18:22 <adrianS> metavoid: an account request ?
18:22 <metavoid> adrianS, yes
18:22 <Beineri> apokryphos: eg stuff which gets dropped (bluefish/-horse can't remember, xmms, ...) and "leaf" packages
18:23 <apokryphos> Beineri: are there very many packages planned to be dropped?
18:23 @<henne> Beineri: crate a project in the OBS and find people that help?
18:23 <adrianS> metavoid: maybe you got refused, please send me a mail with detailed information why you want an account and how you can help us to develop the OBS
18:23 <apokryphos> because if it were many, it would be a bit worrying
18:23 <adrianS> metavoid: we can not yet allow everyone at this point of time
18:23 @<henne> why someone wants to maintain xmms is beyond me...
18:23 <Beineri> henne: did so for kssh which was dropped before 10.2 and was now missed by some people. found someone to maintain it in KDE:Community...
18:24 @<henne> Beineri: so whats your question?
18:24 <Beineri> henne: but there has to be a place to announce such stuff, I read the chech packagers also want to create some wiki page for this
18:24 <adrianS> okay, is OBS status discussion okay so far ?
18:24 <adrianS> henne: please go on ..
18:24 <apokryphos> Beineri: seems pretty vital, yeah.
18:25 @<henne> okay so next topic?
18:25 <ScriptRipper> When do you plan to "activate" Base:build for use with osc build/buildserver?
18:26 <apokryphos> henne: will such a thing be created/used, then?
18:26 @<henne> apokryphos: what thing?
18:26 <adrianS> ScriptRipper: you should ask the project owner
18:26 <apokryphos> speaking of xmms, by the way, I hate it too but a lot of people use it and vehemently get into arguments with me when I try to convince them not to ;-)
18:26 <apokryphos> still, if there are many people using something it's a good idea to have it available
18:26 <apokryphos> henne: a page where all dropped packages are announced
18:26 @<henne> apokryphos: not at the price of maintaining gtk1 :)
18:26 <AlbertoP> yes, or replacing it with a clone (gtk2 based)
18:27 <apokryphos> henne: ah, I see. Ok.
18:27 @<henne> AlbertoP: which is what we are doing
18:27 <apokryphos> no objections there ;-)
18:27 <AlbertoP> what clone henne ?
18:27 @<henne> audacious afair
18:27 @<henne> but thats OT
18:27 <AlbertoP> ok
18:27 @<henne> apokryphos: well we need something like a package databse or so. see the FOSDEM talk
18:28 <aka_druid_> rename th beep as xmms and nobody will notice
18:28 <apokryphos> ok, look forward to it
18:28 @<henne> anything else regarding the OBS?
18:28 @<henne> okay. Next topic: Status Event Planing
18:28 <AlbertoP> aka_druid, bmp is dead ;-) bmpx now :)
18:28 @<henne> localhorst?
18:28 <sartek> XMMS rocks:P
18:28 <localhorst> ok
18:29 <localhorst> FOSDEM schedule is online: http://fosdem.org/2007/schedule/devroom/opensuse
18:29 <localhorst> will be on the wiki soon
18:29 <apokryphos> woo :)
18:29 <localhorst> chemnitzer linuxtag: we will be there with 2 ppl, booth and 1 talk
18:29 <Beineri> people to help at the booth welcome :-)
18:29 <localhorst> cebit: we will be there on the novell booth
18:30 <localhorst> thats all in the near future ... more coming soon :-)
18:30 @<henne> any questions regarding events?
18:31 @<henne> oki doki
18:31 @<henne> Next topic: Q&A
18:31 @<henne> Try decreasing "installed by-default" packages that are not meant for that computer,
18:31 @<henne> this is something for the -factory mailinglist
18:31 @<henne> nifty design for the box
18:32 <Beineri> installing packages depending on your hardware is a big fate entry (eg no tablet pc stuff on laptops :-)
18:32 @<henne> michl19
18:32 @<henne> ?
18:32 <michl19> nifty design - definetely a topic for 10.3 box
18:32 * henne wonders what the 19 should be. The century hes born in?
18:33 @<henne> cool
18:33 @<henne> UPnP Support in YaST Firewall
18:33 @<henne> is something for the -security mailinglist
18:33 @<henne> Data Security, Destruction & Forensic Features
18:34 <AlbertoP> ML are used by a reduced group of users, it's pointless to redirect there
18:34 @<henne> Beineri do you know if someone is planing for this?
18:34 * cb400f suggest to do bugzilla enhancement
18:34 <apokryphos> AlbertoP: not if that's the place to get their question answered
18:34 <AlbertoP> apokryphos, not answered I'd say :)
18:35 <Beineri> henne: no, only that we do such work on encrypted home dirs :-)
18:35 @<henne> i find that very usefull
18:36 @<henne> njdube you should proposde these as bugzilla enhancemants agains the KDE component
18:36 @<henne> one enhancement per bug
18:36 @<henne> next question
18:37 @<henne> smart faster than YasT
18:37 <adrianS> what is the question ? ;)
18:37 @<henne> I noticed that SmartPM downloads packages a lot faster than YAST. Could you use a similar way for downloading packages as SmartPM?
18:37 @<henne> i dont quote get that
18:37 @<henne> quite*
18:37 <adrianS> but the YaST team works currently on speed improvements, caching the meta data more efficient
18:37 <cb400f> unless he means the mirroring thing..
18:38 <Beineri> there is a Fate entry for running download and install in parallel, maybe that is meant?
18:38 <bgerber> wanting 10.0 yast speed
18:38 <apokryphos> (smart does make multiple connections)
18:38 @<henne> well obviously the question has to be more specific and the place is opensuse-factory :)
18:38 <adrianS> also a parallel download & installation was disscused, but I do not know any status about that
18:38 <Beineri> it's being evaluated for 10.3
18:38 <apokryphos> cool
18:39 @<henne> bgerber: is the last one your?
18:39 @<henne> yours*
18:39 <bgerber> yes
18:39 @<henne> bgerber: its a wiki. go ahead :)
18:39 <bgerber> But I do not know how to get the list of all svn
18:40 <bgerber> all my attempts have failed with unauthorized
18:40 @<henne> there are only 3 i think
18:40 <bgerber> so someone internal needs to provide a list
18:40 @<henne> buildservice, translation, kiwi
18:40 <bgerber> I have opensuse an lfl
18:40 @<henne> adrianS more?
18:41 @<henne> ah lfl right
18:41 <bgerber> s/an/and
18:41 <aka_druid_> henne: probably he is talking about the paralled connections it does in http or ftp in paralel
18:41 <aka_druid_> its really nothing that special, but anything in yast people need to say its fantastic and the best thing ever made... ah, the hype
18:42 <adrianS> bgerber: sorry, what "all" svn's do you want to get ?
18:42 <bgerber> also it would be nice if the info was on the Developer page for novell
18:42 @<henne> bgerber: so start the list with buildservice, translation, kiwi, l4l and send a mail to -project that people should add missing ones :)
18:42 <aka_druid_> meh, I mean in smart, in smart
18:43 <bgerber> ok
18:43 @<henne> bgerber: whats the "Developer page for novell"?
18:43 <bgerber> http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/Developer_Home
18:44 <bgerber> It is also stuck on 10.1
18:45 @<henne> adrianS: is that susannes baustelle?
18:45 * henne kicks adrianS
18:45 <adrianS> I have no idea ...
18:46 @<henne> developer.novell.com i mean
18:46 <Beineri> click on "History" there? :-)
18:46 @<henne> yeah looks like it
18:47 <metavoid> I have a question regarding novdoc(novdoc-scheme), first of all I couldn't access its svn anonymously, then: what is the difference between novdoc in distribution(1.0.1) and at the project site(1.1), the list of components vary greatly
18:48 @<henne> metavoid: no one from documentation here. please ask on opensuse-doc@opensuse.org
18:49 @<henne> bgerber: i will ask someone that seems to be affiliated with that wiki
18:49 @<henne> so
18:49 <AlbertoP> I've a question about the GNOME situation in 10.2, which not maintained at all. There are some important issues (main-menu leaks, to cite one) which are still there after two months and many reports on bugzilla. Are patches planned or not?
18:49 <bgerber> thanks
18:49 <apokryphos> it's also a bit alarming that in these gnome bugreports, there are a whole horde of people chipping in to say "I've got this too", and yet there's no useful input from any of the developers
18:50 <AlbertoP> and developers has those problems too :)
18:50 <AlbertoP> have*
18:50 <apokryphos> there's many bug reports to hand where we can show you exactly what's happening, if you like
18:50 <adrianS> well, we have the policy just to fix critical issues in the distro
18:51 <adrianS> other stuff can get fixed via the build service repos
18:51 <apokryphos> but some of these bugs were filed way before release
18:51 <AlbertoP> I'm talking about critical bugs
18:51 <apokryphos> and right, several are quite critical. But there's absolutely no response from the gnome developers at all.
18:51 <AlbertoP> a menu which uses 200MB of ram is critical :-)
18:51 <adrianS> in that case you should get in contact with AJ
18:51 <adrianS> but, I thought he went to all these bugs lately ...
18:52 <AlbertoP> they were reported both on bugzilla and ML
18:52 <adrianS> AlbertoP: depends ... it is hard to figure out real memory usage these days under linux
18:52 <AlbertoP> ok, just downgrade to the old menu release which had not the problem...
18:53 <apokryphos> 229190, 222490, 177982 and 224409 are some examples
18:53 <AlbertoP> features are unchanged, and the prob is not present on sled
18:53 <apokryphos> whoops, minus the last one
18:53 @<henne> ill take this to the dist meeting
18:53 <AlbertoP> thanks henne
18:54 @<henne> if you guys have more please send me
18:54 <apokryphos> thanks 8)
18:54 <AlbertoP> hehe you risk to have a looong list ;-)
18:54 <aka_druid_> I thought gnome was receiving the love now heh
18:54 @<henne> well i rather have a long list than just rumors :)
18:55 <AlbertoP> aka_druid, somewhere else ^^
18:55 <aka_druid_> ic ic
18:55 <apokryphos> these things would be really loud if they were on kde, but gnome isn't as widely used on suse
18:55 @<henne> well anyway. we need to look at it
18:55 @<henne> any other questions?
18:56 @<henne> none?
18:56 <AlbertoP> when do you need the list henne?
18:56 @<henne> AlbertoP: ASAP :)
18:56 <AlbertoP> ok
18:56 @<henne> no more questions?
18:57 @<henne> okay. then thank you for participating. The next Status Meeting will be held at 2007-02-21. Same time, same channel
18:57 @<henne> good night and good luck
18:57 <bgerber> thanks
18:57 <Beineri> and community meeting is on Sunday
18:57 <apokryphos> thanks
18:57 <apokryphos> also just a note that the Community meeting will be here at 20:00 on the 11th Feb :)
18:58 <sartek> :)
18:58 <adrianS> apokryphos: 20:00 CET ?
18:58 <apokryphos> *20:00 GMT
18:58 <adrianS> k ;)
18:58 <adrianS> have a nice evening --- Log closed Mi Feb 07
18:58:38 2007