Meetings/Status Meeting 2007-01-24/transcript

From openSUSE

18:00 <notlocalhorst> Welcome to the status meeting! Henne is not here today, so i will do it ...
18:00 <notlocalhorst> as usuall:
18:00 <notlocalhorst> 1.1 Status
18:00 <notlocalhorst> 1.1.1 10.2
18:00 <notlocalhorst> 1.1.2 10.3 Planning
18:00 <notlocalhorst> 1.1.3 wiki
18:00 <notlocalhorst> 1.1.4 build service
18:00 <notlocalhorst> 1.1.5 events planning
18:00 <notlocalhorst> 1.2 Q & A
18:01 <notlocalhorst> 10.2 Live-DVD: is ready, should be online soon.
18:01 <notlocalhorst> 10.3 Planning: AJ?
18:01 <AJaeger> Hi notlocalhorst!
18:01 <AJaeger> OK, I start ;-)
18:02 * apokryphos waves
18:02 <AJaeger> I asked for 10.2 process feedback and so far the main topic was better testing and therefore a more stable release.
18:02 <AJaeger> I suggest to add another beta - making three betas. And I think we have to organize testing better. Let's discuss this at another time.
18:03 <AJaeger> Michael and myself are currently planning the roadmap. We have agreed on an Alpha1 on the 15th of February - and then public alphas every four weeks.
18:03 <AJaeger> The question is when to make the goldmaster. We currently discuss end of september but this is not final yet.
18:04 * aka_druid_ waves
18:04 <AJaeger> Feature collection is one point next on our agenda - but before that we should talk about a big theme.
18:04 <AJaeger> If you have any ideas on one big theme we could put 10.3 under, then speak up!
18:05 <AJaeger> Another topic is media layout - which medias should we have? How to handle translations? I'm looking for some creative ideas.
18:05 <aka_druid_> AJaeger: remove zmd from default installation and havin mini with X with CD1 only, those are my big ideas
18:05 <AJaeger> And last: What'S the codename of 10.3? Has anybody a good Lizard picture and knows which lizard it is?
18:05 <apokryphos> aka_druid: +1
18:06 <Beineri> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=51961 has apparently self-taken Geeko pictures
18:06 <AJaeger> Currently I'm trying to stabilize factory again. Most of GNOME is moved to /usr. We have a new KDE 3.5.6, OOo 2.1.1, Kernel 2.6.20RC5 - and lots of new packages.
18:06 <apokryphos> those are nice
18:06 <AJaeger> So, I open for discussion.
18:07 <apokryphos> AJaeger: why was it moved? Couldn't see that anywhere.
18:07 <AJaeger> aka_druid_: Removing zmd from default: YEs.
18:07 <apokryphos> w00t
18:07 <nine> A thing that comes up again and again (like in the Q&A section) is (startup) speed. How's that for a theme?
18:07 <AJaeger> Having one mini CD with X only: And what other media should we do?
18:07 <apokryphos> I don't think we need another whole CD with X only
18:08 <aka_druid_> AJaeger: , no, I mean that if minimum text mode or minimum with X (and fvwm, or wmaker) that should fit in cd1
18:08 <AJaeger> apokryphos: GNOME was moved to /usr to sync with other distros and to follow a request from the LSB.
18:08 <apokryphos> just that CD1 should have all the packages that's needed for a minimal X install
18:08 <Beineri> AJaeger: will Alpha 1 have also already gcc 4.2 snapshot?
18:08 <apokryphos> since currently it only requires around 4 or so from CD2 (mentioned this on the ML, too)
18:08 <apokryphos> AJaeger: kde will be staying put?
18:08 <AJaeger> apokryphos: YEs, definitely!
18:08 <aka_druid_> AJaeger: see, any other distro isntalls kde or gnome with cd1 only (including, the one starting with u). its a stress telloing people that they cant do that, and when you see the selection there are 4 or 6 packages of cd2 that the guy needs. Thats jsut an unecessary stress
18:09 <apokryphos> how necessary are CDs 4-5?
18:09 <AJaeger> aka_druid_: Let's discuss medias on the email list.
18:09 <aka_druid_> AJaeger: will try
18:10 <AJaeger> CDs 4-5 are not that much needed. We could make extra development Add-on CDs.
18:10 <nine> Is there a possibility to include more packages on the DVD, as there'd be more space available and currently unused?
18:10 <AJaeger> The question is also how to handle the 30+ different languages. On which medias should they get put?
18:10 <Beineri> Blueray! <gd&r>
18:10 <AJaeger> nine: The size of the DVD will be below 4 GB to make it easier to mirror it.
18:10 <apokryphos> AJaeger: I think we should forget about CD 4-5, what would cut out a bit of work, right? There's no hope of getting all the packages in the online repositories on the media anyhow
18:11 <apokryphos> it also re-emphasises that you only need CD1-3 for a normal install
18:11 <AJaeger> apokryphos: Yes, we never get all of them on the CDs - unless we make a dozen ;-)
18:11 <AJaeger> apokryphos: Yes, something to consider. Let's play around with it - and discuss with extra CDs we should make additionally.
18:11 <apokryphos> cool
18:12 <apokryphos> I'm also wondering about the mini [net-install] ISO
18:12 <AJaeger> I'm taken the AI to continue the discussion on the opensuse-project mailing list summarizing what you just set.
18:12 <apokryphos> currently the user has to grab and get an IP, right?
18:12 <apokryphos> ok, /me waits for the ML post
18:12 <AJaeger> apokryphos: Yes, he needs an IP.
18:12 <AJaeger> apokryphos: The IP can be set by the user as well.
18:12 <apokryphos> not so friendly for a new user
18:12 * Beineri thinks name of server works also
18:13 <aka_druid_> name works
18:13 <aka_druid_> if you ahve a modem with dhcp (very common scenario)
18:13 <apokryphos> the package manager already has a feature where it checks a few repositories first, doesn't it?
18:13 <AJaeger> Beineri: Name of server for installation - but dhcp needs to work to install. I thought the later was meant with "needs IP"
18:13 <AJaeger> apokryphos: What do you mean?
18:13 <apokryphos> as in, you have to get the IP of the server you want to use, right?
18:13 <AlbertoP> having a list of servers would be easier
18:13 <aka_druid_> I think he meants that yast during install asks user to add software.opensuse.org repos
18:13 <AJaeger> apokryphos: Name of server is enough!
18:13 <aka_druid_> at least 10.2 did
18:14 <markgray> maclapt0p (n=maclapt0@ip503c368e.speed.planet.nl) has joined channel #opensuse-project
18:14 <markgray> <AJaeger> aka_druid_: Let's discuss medias on the email list.
18:14 <markgray> <aka_druid_> AJaeger: will try
18:14 <markgray> <AJaeger> CDs 4-5 are not that much needed. We could make extra development Add-on CDs.
18:14 <markgray> <nine> Is there a possibility to include more packages on the DVD, as there'd be more space available and currently unused?
18:14 <aka_druid_> and thats horrible ideia, softawre.opensuse.org fails more than debian solving deps
18:14 <apokryphos> AJaeger: ah, I see. How about using a feature like the package manager does, by automatically checking a few repositories, and selecting the one that wins?
18:14 <apokryphos> aka_druid: haha
18:15 <AJaeger> aka_druid_: If software.o.o fails, please file a bugreport. I thought those were fixed...
18:15 <aka_druid_> AJaeger: AJaeger
18:15 <aka_druid_> oops
18:15 <AJaeger> apokryphos: Yes, is an option.
18:15 <aka_druid_> AJaeger: well, its mirro desync fault.. I wonder if it can ever be fixed...
18:15 <apokryphos> AJaeger: automating things for the user makes them happy (I use my father as a test subject :P)
18:15 <nine> I use software.o.o's Mozilla and Wine repositories and they fail pretty often when starting yast.
18:16 <AJaeger> OK, then let me answer the Q&A section:
18:16 <AJaeger> Q: does java 1.6 will be the default jre in suse 10.3?
18:16 <AJaeger> apokryphos: We have not decided this yet.
18:17 <AJaeger> Argh, it should be "A:" instead of apokryphos.
18:17 <AJaeger> Sorry
18:17 <_Marcus_> Wine is refreshed daily ... might not be in sync.
18:17 <apokryphos> =)
18:17 <AJaeger> Q: Should Beryl-packages be included in 10.3 ? Is Beryl enough stable to replace Compiz in 10.3?
18:17 <AJaeger> Answer I think we continue with compiz since it's more stable. Beryl should be added through the build service!
18:17 <AJaeger> Q: does boot time will be improved? mandriva, fedora is faster... any way to get close to arch?
18:18 <aka_druid_> boot time is fast enough, those people need to get a life, sintead of measuing bootimes.. gosh
18:18 <AJaeger> Answer I'd like to. Do you have really good ideas on what can be done? We have spend lots of time already on doing this and I'm disappointed somehow :-(
18:18 <AJaeger> aka_druid_: Or use Suspend ;-)
18:18 <bgerber> not if no dhcp
18:18 <AJaeger> Q: Is it possible to solve the legal problems with multimedia codecs (mp3 etc.) via Fluendo?
18:19 <AlbertoP> aka_druid, almost double of other OS'es...
18:19 <AJaeger> Answer Michael and our legal team look at this as an option right now.
18:19 <bgerber> 3-4 network cards 9 minutes +
18:19 <AJaeger> Q: Now that package management again works as it should, is a solution in sight for upgraders to use a DVD as base and the FTP source for the packages not included on the DVD?
18:19 <AJaeger> Answer This should be easy to do - the question is whether we make it automatical or not.
18:20 <AJaeger> Q: Could the JAD (or some other music/multimedia orientated) audio distribution specific kernel and applications be selectable at install time? If not from the distribution CD/DVD, then from an optional separate CD/DVD or downloadable packages.
18:20 <AJaeger> Applications would be an option if there are people building those. But I do not want another kernel.
18:20 <Petr12345> lol
18:21 <AJaeger> What is the problem that our kernel has? I haven't heard any complaints so far and would like some real details.
18:21 <AJaeger> Q: Will openSUSE 10.3 contain also GCC 4.2 packages; if yes and not instead of 4.1.x, will there be also BLAS/LAPACK etc. packages for GCC 4.2
18:21 <nine> AJaeger: JAD uses a realtime enabled kernel.
18:21 <aka_druid_> AJaeger: Id say add a repo.. I think there is a repo for those multimedia stuff (jacklab), but unfortunat not synced with 10.2
18:21 <AJaeger> Answer GCC 4.2 will be for sure available via the build service. Whether it will be the default, is not solved.
18:21 <cboltz> Hmm, shouldn't this work already by using a addin?
18:22 <AJaeger> nine: We tuned the kernel for audio usage and I haven't seen any real tests that this is not sufficient.
18:22 <Beineri> AJaeger: what problems are there with gcc 4.2?
18:22 <cboltz> (my comment was for the previous question BTW)
18:22 <AJaeger> Beineri: It's not released yet - and it does not compile glibc right now ;-)
18:22 <AJaeger> Q: Consider replacing SLAB menu in 10.3, because it's not confortable
18:23 <apokryphos> SLAB should be easily-changeable like KDE's -- isn't it?
18:23 <AJaeger> Answer: Please file a bugreport about this. Isn't the normal menu available as an option?
18:23 <Petr12345> :(
18:23 <AlbertoP> yes, the default menu is available
18:23 <AJaeger> It should be changeable - and if not, please file a bug.
18:23 Nick _cb is now known as cboltz.
18:23 <AJaeger> Q: Could you implement parallel starting services in 10.3?
18:23 * cboltz is using Konversation as backup IRC client ;-)
18:23 <AJaeger> Answer: Do you mean during booting? We already do!
18:23 <Beineri> It's - but it's more difficult to switch to it (remove applet, add applet) than with the new menu in KDE :-)
18:24 <AJaeger> Q: Are there plans to refine the Patterns for 10.3?
18:24 <AJaeger> answer: yes, we will do.
18:24 <AJaeger> duggum gives a long list of these and I this is something we should discuss one by one.
18:24 * apokryphos loves patterns
18:24 <sartek> there are 3 menus for gnome, slab, the "old" (which was default in 10.1) and the original gnome
18:25 <AJaeger> There are some usability issues with removing required (must have) packages.
18:25 <AJaeger> I always accept bug reports against the patterns ;-)
18:25 <AJaeger> Any further comments? I saw all the comments on the Q&A part but is there more?
18:26 <notlocalhorst> nothing? good ... thanks aj, lets go on with the wiki
18:26 <notlocalhorst> wiki: thats me, questions from the meeting page:
18:26 <notlocalhorst> - unmaintained wikis: tr, vi
18:26 <notlocalhorst> I will talk with the maintainers first, if nothing happens i suggest that i ask on the list for more maintainers. AI:/me
18:26 <notlocalhorst> - wikis talking about "SUSE Linux 10.2": cs, es, is
18:26 <notlocalhorst> It's a wiki, correct it! :-) no, we should fix this asap AI:/me
18:27 <notlocalhorst> - unannounced wikis: cn, nl
18:27 <notlocalhorst> nl wiki needs some fixes first, just wait until the maintainer announce it.
18:27 <notlocalhorst> It's out till Thursday night, some patience please ...
18:27 <notlocalhorst> cn: i have to ask alex about it. AI: /me
18:27 <notlocalhorst> next: pl is ready will go online end of this week, we will announce it when the maintainer thinks it's ok
18:27 <notlocalhorst> next week maybe zh_tw when i have time
18:27 <notlocalhorst> now read :-)
18:27 * cboltz will file the AI later ;-)
18:27 * AJaeger thanks cboltz
18:28 <Beineri> "It's a wiki, correct it!" doesn't apply it the wrong text is on a protected page :-)...
18:28 <notlocalhorst> that why there is a ":-)" ;-)
18:28 <notlocalhorst> any questions about wiki?
18:29 <notlocalhorst> ok, lets go on to the build service ... adrianS, some news? :-)
18:29 <adrianL> well, I hope you saw the biggest news
18:29 <adrianL> the COMPLETE build service is open source now
18:30 <notlocalhorst> clap clap clap
18:30 <adrianL> this means everybody can install it everywhere :)
18:30 <Beineri> party starts when?
18:30 * apokryphos dances
18:30 <adrianL> Come and you get some free wine :)
18:30 <AJaeger> adrianS: Where is the party?
18:30 <adrianL> AJaeger: openSUSE office Nuernberg
18:30 <Petr12345> nnnxkvasdjkcjkasbckjawbhc
18:30 <Petr12345> sorry
18:31 <adrianL> We also more or less agreed on using "OBS" as new short term for the build service
18:31 <Beineri> Petr12345: how do you remember THAT password?
18:31 <AJaeger> Petr12345: Just come along - maxfeldstr. 5 in Nuernberg, Germany
18:31 <adrianL> to avoid ideas what BS could mean ;)
18:31 <adrianL> We have _EXPERIMENTAL_ packages of the build service available as mentioned in the announcement mail
18:31 <adrianL> these packages are rough, but should work so far
18:32 <adrianL> further work on them is requirered definitivly
18:32 <adrianL> but they should be the easiest way to start with it ...
18:32 <adrianL> Furthermore, Michael implemented a number of fixes, including the automatic repository remove
18:33 <richi> notlocalhorst: mach hin! ;)
18:33 <adrianL> this means removed repos from project xml file get also removed on the mirrors finaly !
18:34 <adrianL> beside of that, our build service front end is working still on web improvements (or are skiing)
18:34 <adrianL> thats it for the OBS so far, any questions ?
18:34 * apokryphos eagerly awaits it
18:34 <nine> adrianL: does the OBL have some sort of security so if I provide such a service to the public, users can't take over my machine?
18:34 <nine> As building packages usually includes running scripts
18:35 <adrianL> nine: there are different levels
18:35 <adrianL> nine: when you enable the workers using xen, you should be save from that perspective
18:35 <adrianL> but the biggest risk when you install the packages are the open ports of the backend
18:35 <adrianL> as mentioned in the README
18:36 <nine> thanks
18:36 <adrianL> so, you need it either install the backend on an internal system or have a firewall
18:36 <adrianL> in short, it is possible to setup it in a secure way
18:36 <nine> That's what I wanted to know :)
18:36 <adrianL> the package default config is only running on the localhost to make it as easy as possible to start
18:37 * adrianL notes down to write down a summary about that issue
18:37 <adrianL> any further OBS questions ?
18:38 <adrianL> notlocalhorst: go on ...
18:38 <notlocalhorst> k, thanks adrian
18:38 <Beineri> could Build_Service/News please be updated more often? :-)
18:38 <notlocalhorst> next topic is events
18:38 <bgerber> Esp News
18:38 <cb400f> Beineri: you mean openSUSE_Build_Service/News
18:39 <Beineri> feel free to move the page ;-)
18:39 <bgerber> web site news
18:39 <notlocalhorst> Events:
18:39 <notlocalhorst> FOSDEM planing is going on, i will post a schedule maybe next week
18:39 <notlocalhorst> we are planing also to go to other events, but nothing is settled so far
18:39 <notlocalhorst> like cebit and linuxtag and some smaller events
18:40 <notlocalhorst> if you have suggestions about events, send me an email, or to marketing@opensuse.org
18:40 <notlocalhorst> questions about events?
18:41 <notlocalhorst> ok, last topic, Q&A: aj already answered the questions from the wiki, other questions?
18:42 <notlocalhorst> ok, then the meeting is over