Meetings/Status Meeting 2007-01-10/transcript

From openSUSE

--- Log opened Mi Jan 10 18:00:18 2007
18:00 @<henne> Welcome to the openSUSE Status Meeting!
18:00 <bill-barriere> damn i usually make up a reason to be absent
18:00 <apokryphos> there was a post to the -announce list recently
18:00 @<henne> This meeting is meant to discuss the latest developments in and around openSUSE.
18:00 @<henne> The topics for this meeting are:
18:00 @<henne> * 1.1 Status Distro
18:00 @<henne> * 1.2 Status wiki
18:00 @<henne> * 1.3 Status build service
18:01 @<henne> * 1.4 10.3 Planning
18:01 @<henne> * 1.5 Event Planning
18:01 @<henne> * 1.6 Q & A
18:01 @<henne> Lets go!
18:01 @<henne> AJaeger status 10.2 please
18:01 <AJaeger> Ok, boss!
18:02 <AJaeger> 10.2 is out - the Live DVD has still some problems which we're fixing now.
18:02 <AJaeger> For now I'd like to ask what we've learned from 10.2 process wise. Is there anything that can we do better for 10.3?
18:03 <AJaeger> For 10.3: I'm just back from vacation and Michael and myself are starting now
18:03 <AJaeger> with setting up a roadmap, proposing features, coming up with a code
18:03 <AJaeger> name etc. I'll soon open the discussion on the mailing lists.
18:03 <AJaeger> Please speak up!
18:03 <bgerber> closing of more bugs before release
18:03 <cb400f> 2-3 weeks of additional testing after feature freeze would be nice
18:04 <Beineri> have the feature freeze one week before first Beta
18:04 <AJaeger> bgerber: Or less bugreports ;-)
18:04 <bgerber> yes
18:04 <cb400f> perhaps more conservative attitude towards including stuff that's rc/beta at feature freeze
18:04 <apokryphos> I think 10.2 was a wonderful release; I think it would be a good idea to get slightly better support for metalinks during release time, as we should take advantage of their use
18:04 <AJaeger> cb400f: Yes, something we'Re discussing. It means not that much latest and greatest stuff on the other side.
18:05 <AJaeger> apokryphos: metalinks is something I haven't looked at. Yes, I think also it's wonderful - thanks to all that worked on it!
18:05 <AJaeger> cb400f: Do you have anything specific in mind were I was not conservative enough?
18:05 <cb400f> AJaeger: maybe the policy should only apply to core elements.. like kernels.. xorg..
18:05 <cb400f> AJaeger: just xorg actually
18:06 <apokryphos> just basically (i) making and controlling our own metalinks (big advantage since we can get it working with the torrent too) and (ii) getting some clients in by default perhaps
18:06 <AJaeger> cb400f: Especially for the kernel lots of people ask for stuff - and with 10.2 we had strict xorg/kernel rules in general.
18:07 <AJaeger> apokryphos: I'll note down metalink.
18:07 <cb400f> nevertheless we ended up releasing xorg 7.2 rc
18:07 <apokryphos> cool :)
18:07 <bill-barriere> cb400f, nah pushing 7.2 was good, pushed the "binary shipper" to work their *cough* crap
18:07 @<henne> cb400f: whats the problem with that?
18:07 <AJaeger> cb400f: Yes, we did.
18:07 <apokryphos> which was good, but bad for ati drivers
18:08 <cb400f> henne: gives people a bad impression psychologically .. and of course the lack of 3d driver for a week or two, with a lot of whining
18:08 @<henne> you cant make it right for everybody...
18:08 <cb400f> henne: I doubt anybody would've complained about xorg 7.1
18:08 <AJaeger> I'll ask later on the mailing lists again for comments - just wanted to get this started here ;-)
18:09 <AJaeger> cb400f: There will always be one that complains ;-)
18:09 @<henne> Action Item AJaeger: Ask for 10.2 process feedback on opensuse-project
18:09 <AJaeger> henne: Accepted.
18:09 @<henne> anything else regarding the distro?
18:09 <AJaeger> henne: Shall I answer all the Q&A right now - they all address the distribution?
18:09 <cb400f> AJaeger: another thing process wise.. would be nice if new developments are announced.. I personally found out about zypper late in the game, more or less by coincidence
18:10 <AJaeger> cb400f: I agree - noted.
18:10 <bgerber> I too would like to have more notice.
18:10 @<henne> AJaeger: we had this idea of meta changelogs
18:10 <|RoB|> I'd like to see more solid wireless support, specifically switching between wireless and wired.
18:10 <cb400f> .. not to mention kde-start-compiz-patch
18:10 @<henne> AJaeger: we really should follow this up
18:10 <bgerber> I thing zypper could have used a bit more testing
18:11 <apokryphos> not so much the testing as general maturity of the app I think
18:11 <AJaeger> bgerber: Definitely - it was just not finished earler.
18:11 <apokryphos> though from everything I see most issues are being worked on (parsing the metadata all the time, etc)
18:12 <cboltz> AJaeger: AI #233261 ;-)
18:13 @<henne> okay anthing else?
18:13 <Beineri> AJaeger: do you also want input regarding features, code name, ...? :-)
18:13 <cb400f> don't break svn-server close to feature/translation freeze ;-)
18:13 <AJaeger> Beineri: Not really today - but soon.
18:13 * henne points at darix
18:14 <bgerber> better documentation of nfs changes
18:14 <AJaeger> Ok, then let me answer the distribution related Q&As:
18:14 <AJaeger> Q: Does performance will be an important feature in 10.3?
18:14 <AJaeger> What exactly do you mean with performance? Which benchmarks do you think need improvement? If there's demand for better performance, we can work on it together.
18:14 <AJaeger> Is Marc Collin here to answer this?
18:15 <AJaeger> Q: Does a window will be added during 10.3 to install proprietary software like nvidia, mp3 support?
18:15 @<henne> probably not because then he would not have posted the question in the wiki ;)
18:15 <adrianL> we should add some line on the irc meeting page that people should appear here or write to the mailing list ;)
18:15 <AJaeger> We will not add such a dialog box as you mention. This is not possible.
18:15 <AJaeger> In general I'm thinking about offering more repositories than we
18:15 <AJaeger> currently have (we currently ask only for the three openSUSE repos:
18:15 <AJaeger> debug, oss, non-oss).
18:15 <AJaeger> Ok, let's followup the performance question via email. Performance is important - but I miss too much context.
18:16 <AJaeger> Q: Can the ACPI kernel fixes in 2.6.19 be backported to 2.6.18 [...]?
18:16 <AJaeger> We will not backport the complete stack. If there is a single patch to fix dual core systems, we will consider it. This should be handled via bugzilla.
18:16 <AJaeger> Q: What is planned for TeX/LaTeX?
18:16 <AJaeger> We plan to use TeXlive.
18:16 <AJaeger> Any questions/comments on those Q&A?
18:16 <AJaeger> Wait, one more:
18:16 <AJaeger> Q: What is openSUSE's response to the recently announced MS Windows Home Server?
18:17 <AJaeger> We're not planning on targetting this with openSUSE.
18:17 @<henne> *yawn*
18:17 <AJaeger> henne, move on - I'm done ;-)
18:17 @<henne> but everyone is free to start his own project with the help of the buildserver etc.
18:17 @<henne> okay next topic?
18:18 @<henne> * 1.2 Status wiki
18:18 @<henne> darix?
18:18 <localhorst> i'm working on the dutch wiki right now, but will not finish it this week i guess
18:18 <darix> where is localhost when you need him?
18:18 <localhorst> open your eyes ...
18:18 <localhorst> all from me
18:19 <adrianL> build service ?
18:19 @<henne> okay next topic
18:19 @<henne> * 1.3 Status build service
18:19 @<henne> adrianL?
18:19 <adrianL> Michael implemented nearly all nessecary for building kmp packages
18:19 <adrianL> that are extra kernel module packages
18:20 <adrianL> in this way the number of supported hardware and drivers can be increased via the build service
18:20 <adrianL> What is missing is to have always the latest released update kernel in the build service
18:20 <adrianL> michael is working on this
18:21 <adrianL> that's it, people just come back from vacation
18:21 @<henne> i have a question
18:21 <adrianL> Andreas and Corneliues are working on the test suite of the build service
18:21 <adrianL> henne: shoot
18:21 @<henne> whats the reasoning behind not updating the distro repositories?
18:22 @<henne> with online updates that is
18:22 <adrianL> henne: because the distro may get not backward compatibility changes, only forward
18:22 @<henne> so?
18:22 <adrianL> so a package should work for GA version and with latest service updates
18:23 <adrianL> another reason is not to trigger new packages, if not needed
18:23 @<henne> why should it work with the GA version?
18:23 <adrianL> too many base packages get updates, but that should not trigger a complete rebuild
18:23 @<henne> ah ok
18:23 <adrianL> because you can refuse updates
18:23 @<henne> so buildpower...
18:23 <adrianL> updates can be optional
18:24 @<henne> then youre fsckd anyway. i just find this a strange policy...
18:24 <adrianL> or you ignore security updates, if you are not affected in your usecase
18:24 <adrianL> however, you will have the choice in future
18:24 <bgerber> but updates need to be addressed
18:24 <adrianL> either build for GA or for latest updated version, GA will be default
18:25 @<henne> we really should make this the other way around
18:25 <adrianL> bgerber: the updates will be available in the build service, yes
18:25 @<henne> every other repository does so
18:25 @<henne> even abuild...
18:25 <bgerber> I am with henne on this
18:25 @<henne> lets discuss this on the BS list...
18:26 <bgerber> I think default should include updates
18:26 <adrianL> bgerber: why ? it will only work for less people in this case
18:26 <bgerber> ok
18:26 <adrianL> forward update compatibility is anyway required or the update is invalid
18:26 <adrianL> or it is an exception, like the linux kernel
18:27 * henne pokes _Marcus_
18:27 <adrianL> okay, go on from my side
18:27 @<henne> okay lets continue this on the BS list
18:27 @<henne> next topic?
18:27 @<henne> * 1.4 10.3 Planning
18:28 @<henne> i guess that we already handled in the distro status
18:28 <AJaeger> henne: Yes, we did - didn't noticed I had two topics ;-(
18:28 @<henne> AJ and michl work on that. nothing done yet
18:28 @<henne> next topic? :)
18:28 @<henne> AJaeger: you can go to bed now ;)
18:29 <cb400f> AJaeger: ETA of 10.3 roadmap?
18:29 <AJaeger> henne: First to dinner ;-)
18:29 @<henne> sesamestreet is over anyway
18:29 <AJaeger> cb400f: asap.
18:29 <AJaeger> Btw. For features: I'd like to discuss 10.3 with all of you at FOSDEM!
18:29 <apokryphos> nice
18:30 @<henne> okay next topic?
18:30 * cb400f will compile a list of feature wishes for apokryphos to discuss with AJ
18:30 @<henne> * 1.5 Event Planning
18:30 <apokryphos> cb400f: ;-)
18:30 @<henne> who brought that up?
18:31 <darix> *points to adrianL and michL*
18:31 <adrianL> localhorst: your task ?
18:31 @<henne> Beineri!
18:31 * Beineri hides
18:31 <adrianL> In short, openSUSE will appear on FOSDEM, LinuxTag and CeBit
18:31 @<henne> youve added that
18:31 <adrianL> we still look for talks from anyone on any fair
18:31 <Beineri> yeah, the call for speakers at FOSDEM is still running: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-announce/2006-12/msg00007.html
18:31 <apokryphos> I'd like to apply to do a talk on the opensuse community =)
18:32 @<henne> apokryphos thats what you have to do
18:32 <adrianL> if you want a slot to present something, related to openSUSE somehow, please send a mail to opensuse-project
18:32 <apokryphos> we talked about it a bit in #opensuse-community, and no-one was really willing to do it, and I think it's important that there is one like it
18:32 @<henne> apokryphos: then do it!
18:32 <apokryphos> I've put together a basic agenda of what we'd like to talk about: http://opensuse-community.org/FOSDEM
18:32 <adrianL> apokryphos: where is the problem ? to get to brussel ? maybe we can help there ?
18:33 <apokryphos> no problem, I plan on attending :)
18:33 <bill-barriere> public talk omg
18:33 * bill-barriere hide
18:33 <bgerber> any US events?
18:33 @<henne> apokryphos: please send a mail to opensuse-project then so we can plan you in
18:33 <apokryphos> will do
18:33 <adrianL> bgerber: I will be at Brainshare at least
18:33 <Beineri> bill-barriere: you're also welcome to help at the booth ;-)
18:33 @<henne> bgerber: which are there?
18:34 @<henne> except LWE
18:34 <sprudel24> perhaps OSCON and LWE San Francisco
18:34 <bgerber> Brainshare and OSCON
18:34 <bgerber> yes
18:34 @<henne> so we should look into OSCON
18:34 @<henne> localhorst: already on your todo or?
18:34 <bgerber> yes
18:35 * henne kicks localhorst
18:35 <localhorst> yes
18:35 @<henne> okay
18:35 @<henne> next topic?
18:35 @<henne> * 1.6 Q & A
18:36 @<henne> AJaeger already answered the questions from the wiki
18:36 <AJaeger> I handled all of them AFAIK.
18:36 @<henne> any other general questions here?
18:36 <cboltz> What's the status of opening FATE?
18:36 @<henne> not?
18:36 <adrianL> cboltz: no updates :/
18:37 <adrianL> Klaas just came back from vacation today
18:37 <adrianL> it is not an easy task
18:37 <adrianL> except we setup another instance
18:37 <apokryphos> I understand that a live+install dvd is often mastered for expos/events. I understand hosting this is problematic, but what about releasing the torrent of it?
18:37 <adrianL> apokryphos: we can do this
18:37 <adrianL> apokryphos: but we do not have a 10.2 version yet
18:37 <apokryphos> excellent 8)
18:38 <apokryphos> right
18:38 <bgerber> soon?
18:38 <adrianL> apokryphos: we can not put the iso on ftp servers though
18:38 <adrianL> apokryphos: but releasing a torrent should work
18:38 <apokryphos> yup
18:38 <cb400f> any suseregister-stats on 10.2 adoption?
18:38 <bgerber> how about an rsync source?
18:38 <adrianL> bgerber: this month, I really really hope
18:39 <cb400f> .. perhaps compared to 10.1 stats after one month
18:39 <adrianL> cb400f: you need to ask michl@suse.de for them
18:39 <cb400f> ok
18:39 @<henne> anything else?
18:40 <adrianL> okay, have a nice evening, morning, day :)
18:40 @<henne> oki doki
18:40 @<henne> So that was it. If you have more, dont hesitate to bring it up on the appropriate mailinglist.
18:40 @<henne> Thank you all for participating. Good night and good luck!
18:40 <Beineri> next meeting?
18:40 @<henne> the next meeting will be in two weeks
18:40 <bgerber> 2 weeks?
18:40 @<henne> as always
18:41 <Beineri> well, this time it were 3 weeks or so ;-)
18:41 @<henne> so the 24th of january
18:41 @<henne> same place same time
--- Log closed Mi Jan 10 18:41:40 2007