Meetings/Status Meeting 2006-12-20/transcript

From openSUSE

--- Log opened Wed Dec 20 17:56:45 2006
17:58 <henne> there he is
17:58 <localhorst> ?
17:59 <henne> its your fault that we have to be here
18:00 <localhorst> as i would care ....
18:00 <adrianS> but we love to be here ....
18:01 <henne> you maybe...
18:02 @<henne> Welcome to the openSUSE Status Meeting!
18:02 @<henne> This meeting is meant to discuss the latest stuff in and around openSUSE.
18:03 @<henne> The topics for this meeting are:
18:03 @<henne> * 1.1 Status o 1.1.1 10.2 o 1.1.2 wiki o 1.1.3 build service
18:03 @<henne> * 1.2 Report from the first community meeting
18:03 @<henne> * 1.3 Q & A
18:03 @<henne> lets go
18:03 @<henne> who makes status 10.2? adrianS?
18:03 <adrianS> The openSUSE 10.2 is complete out there, except for the Live DVD
18:04 <adrianS> There are problems with the menu from isolinux for the Live DVD and really everybody with knowledge about it is on vacation
18:04 <adrianS> so it will be there until january
18:04 @<henne> wont
18:04 <adrianS> Factory distribution is active again and get synced to the mirrors
18:05 <adrianS> that's it for the distribution, I think
18:05 @<henne> any questions regarding that?
18:05 @<henne> oki doki
18:05 @<henne> status wiki, localhorst
18:06 <cboltz> I haven't heard anything about the boxes yet - when are they expected to be in the shops?
18:06 <cboltz> henne, you are too fast ;-)
18:06 @<henne> i want home ;)
18:06 <localhorst> soon, we have them already in nuremberg
18:06 <adrianS> cboltz: they are produced, so they should become available at the shops on every day
18:06 <localhorst> usually we got them later then the shops, so very soon
18:06 <adrianS> michl is not here to answer that better
18:06 @<henne> on opensuse-de people already reported reciving them
18:07 <cboltz> OK, thanks ;-)
18:07 <Beineri> those who subscribed
18:07 <localhorst> wiki:nothing new
18:07 @<henne> but only for subscriptions
18:07 @<henne> michl: any ETA on the boxes in general retail?
18:08 @<henne> *snore*
18:08 <michl> with some luck this week
18:08 <michl> most probably next week
18:09 <michl> we had some issues to solve with the distributor selling to the main retail stores and amazon
18:09 <michl> this is fixed now
18:09 <markgray> why not in the .us this time?
18:09 <Beineri> bestow vouchers at xmas everyone! ;-)
18:10 <michl> it won't be in retail in the US anymore
18:10 @<henne> clever...
18:10 <michl> only available through shop.novell.com
18:11 @<henne> whats the reasoning behind that?
18:11 <Beineri> also no amazon.*com*?
18:11 <michl> Novell decided to outsource the production and distribution of the box
18:11 <michl> in EMEA we could find a partner doing that
18:12 <michl> in NA we couldn't find a partner doing it
18:12 @<henne> are we still looking?
18:12 <michl> I'm still in contact with one company interested in
18:12 <michl> if that works out this is something to openSUSE 10.3
18:13 @<henne> okay
18:13 <michl> the NA market is more difficult for us than EMEA
18:13 @<henne> any other questions regarding 10.2 or the wiki?
18:13 <michl> as Sales is much lower in NA than in EMEA
18:13 <cboltz> will there be a christmas theme? ;-)
18:13 @<henne> cboltz: if you make one...
18:14 <_Marcus_> michl: any clue if the outsourcers might add more of our manuals again to the next box?
18:14 <_Marcus_> michl: there were complaints that the book gets thinner and thinner
18:14 <Beineri> reuse the top-left corner graphics of last year?
18:14 @<henne> we can do that. they are still in the svn somewhere...
18:14 <michl> possibility yes, even if I doubt that as manual production is pretty expensive
18:15 <cboltz> henne: then please do it - I don't have time to design new ones :-(
18:15 * henne neither
18:16 @<henne> well lets see. maybe santa comes and brings one...
18:16 @<henne> next topic?
18:16 @<henne> Status BuildService
18:16 @<henne> bauersman?
18:17 <bauersman> ok
18:17 <bauersman> the search interface for api is mostly done
18:17 <bauersman> I will deploy it tomorrow
18:17 <bauersman> and will write a mail to opensuse-buildservice on how to use it
18:17 @<henne> neato. thanks
18:18 <bauersman> also the webclient will get a search page
18:18 <bauersman> first part of tagging system is also done
18:18 <bauersman> not sure if it will get deployed tomorrow too
18:18 <adrianS> Additionally the Factory project in the build service does host now the sources
18:19 <adrianS> so, they can viewed or reused from there
18:19 <adrianS> that's it from me
18:19 <bauersman> no more from my side also
18:19 <Beineri> adrianS: any plan to import all missing sources sometime at once (some only rarely change)
18:19 <Beineri> ?
18:20 <adrianS> Beineri: the plan exist, but I do not have any date yet
18:20 @<henne> any other questions regarding the BS?
18:21 <cboltz> will the not-so-eyecatching "enable/disable build" icons and the better "trigger rebuild" icons be deployed tomorrow too?
18:21 <bauersman> yes
18:21 <bauersman> not sure about the disable ones, but the trigger rebuild one for sure
18:22 @<henne> nothing more?
18:22 @<henne> next topic?
18:23 @<henne> okay
18:23 <carlosg> i have a question. currently build service doesn't have any opensuse i18n project. i think would be great if the team could create it. like monthly updates.
18:23 <adrianS> carlosg: there is a svn to work on translations
18:23 <adrianS> carlosg: the changes there go directly into the Factory project
18:24 @<henne> see http://i18n.opensuse.org/
18:24 @<henne> next topic?
18:24 <carlosg> adrianS: ok. so 10.2 opensusers can use that factory packages?
18:24 <carlosg> i mean, it's 99.9% compatible?
18:25 <aka_druid_> erm... wait for 10.3 release with all fixes?
18:25 <adrianS> carlosg: not really, but a translation update would mean to replace almost all packages
18:25 @<henne> not really
18:25 <carlosg> ok. thanks
18:25 <adrianS> carlosg: therefore we do not offer updates, just work on upstream for the next release
18:26 @<henne> anything else?
18:26 <Tsuroerusu> henne: On what (Sorry I just dropped in)
18:26 @<henne> Next Topic: Report from the first community meeting
18:26 @<henne> benJIman? or who does that?
18:27 <aka_druid_> cb400f?
18:27 <cb400f> yes
18:27 <cb400f> on saturday evening (CET) a community IRC-meeting was held
18:27 <aka_druid_> I was there, but drinking vodka
18:27 <aka_druid_> (it was a saturday, not my fault)
18:27 <cb400f> the purpose is to inform, encourage and enable community members to contribute to openSUSE
18:28 <cb400f> 50+ people participated, which is considered a great success
18:28 <cb400f> see minutes and transscript:
18:28 <cb400f> http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/Community_Meeting_2006-12-16/minutes
18:28 <cb400f> http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/Community_Meeting_2006-12-16/transcript
18:28 <cb400f> the following existing projects were presented:
18:29 <cb400f> translation, packaging, Build service client, package search, education
18:29 <cb400f> after that there was a brainstorm about what we can do in the future
18:29 <cb400f> one of the results was the creation of an official unofficial wiki at opensuse-community.org
18:30 <cb400f> it'll have documentation that can't be on opensuse.org for legal reasons and other things
18:30 <cb400f> next meeting will be in late january, in this channel, #opensuse-project
18:31 <cb400f> does anyone wish to add something? questions?
18:31 @<henne> what about the AIs?
18:31 @<henne> some of them where to bring something up here
18:31 <cb400f> I should clearify that it's intended to work as much as possible _with_ suse.de, suse.cz etc.
18:31 <cb400f> henne: hm.. who were they assigned to?
18:32 @<henne> cboltz?
18:32 <aka_druid_> cboltz did created some in bugzilla.. need to check in the minutes
18:32 <adrianS> I saw assignements to different people in bugzilla
18:32 <localhorst> ys, for most are bugzilla entrys
18:32 <cboltz> yes, they are assigned to the people who took them
18:32 <cboltz> (community members)
18:32 <localhorst> nice
18:32 @<henne> so do we speak about that stuff now or in two weeks? :)
18:33 <cboltz> If you want to take one of them, just CC or reassign to yourself ;-)
18:33 <cboltz> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=229221 might be interesting here
18:33 <cboltz> [AI] organise IRC meeting for YaST enhancements / new features
18:34 <cboltz> Maybe the YaST developers can add a note when they have some time - it would be a good thing to have them in a YaST-related meeting ;-)
18:34 @<henne> well ok if the AI takers are not here then we dont have to speak about the AIs...
18:34 @<henne> next topic?
18:34 <adrianS> cboltz: I can ask the YaST people to come, however, they will complain about new work ;)
18:34 <aka_druid_> adrianS: use a whip
18:35 <cboltz> that's the trick - some people from the community offered to do some work on YaST ;-)
18:35 <adrianS> cboltz: that is great !
18:35 <adrianS> cboltz: do you know the bug ? can you reassign the AI to me ?
18:35 <cboltz> However, it would be good to know what the YaST team likes and what not
18:35 <cboltz> and duplicate work could be avoided, too.
18:35 <adrianS> about the YaST meeting ?
18:35 @<henne> scroll 5 lines up
18:36 <adrianS> ah, sorry
18:36 @<henne> okay anything else regarding the community meeting?
18:37 @<henne> not?
18:37 <cboltz> yes
18:37 <cboltz> [AI] clarify bugzilla usage for packages in build service
18:37 <cboltz> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=229213
18:37 <cboltz> short quoting from there:
18:37 <cboltz> It's unclear how to report bugs against packages in the build service, and
18:37 <aka_druid_> *if* bugzilla is goin to be used for BS
18:37 <cboltz> there is some confusion about this.
18:37 <cboltz> benJIman said: Sounds like the way bugzilla is used needs to be discussed on the
18:37 <cboltz> packaging list and an announcement made with the results
18:38 <cboltz> that's part of the question
18:38 <aka_druid_> I think its clear bugzilla usage. What is not clear if its a good thing to have it used to track bugs in BS packages
18:38 <Beineri> where "report bugs against packages in the build service" is about failures in the packages not about them not building please :-)
18:38 <cboltz> yes, of course
18:39 <aka_druid_> as for example, we dont even know if the packager will see he has bugs and stuff, or if he sees, if he is goin to fix. Or if he is goin to fix, how fast and with which priority
18:39 <cb400f> the point was also confusion about which component to file reports against iirc
18:39 <adrianS> cb400f: in doubt, use the openSUSE build service component for now
18:39 @<henne> we need to address some things in bugzilla probably anyway
18:39 @<henne> one thing is bugreports against packages instead of maintainers or something like that
18:40 @<henne> let yaloki take this to the list
18:40 <apokryphos> damn, I'm late
18:40 @<henne> it looks like we need this for the factory criteria/user|trust system
18:41 @<henne> anything else?
18:41 <apokryphos> are we still on the community issue?
18:41 <cb400f> yes
18:41 <apokryphos> I was wondering if we can talk a little about http://opensuse-community.org
18:42 <apokryphos> one of the things decided in the community meeting was that there are two many 3rd-party "community" type resources
18:42 <apokryphos> this is confusing to the new suse user, and all documentation should be on opensuse.org, and whatever can't go there should be in one place
18:42 <cb400f> apokryphos: see http://opensuseguide.org
18:42 <cb400f> ;-)
18:42 <apokryphos> who made that?
18:43 <cb400f> some guy
18:43 <apokryphos> and when? :/
18:43 <Beineri> some (Ubuntu) users not known to anyone
18:43 <apokryphos> hm, we already decided on -community.org, and work has started on it
18:43 <apokryphos> and there's nothing there
18:44 <aka_druid_> its not a problem, imho
18:44 @<henne> you _cant_, i repeat you _cant_, avoid duplication
18:44 <aka_druid_> if its not a problem, you dont need to worry or try to solve it
18:44 <aka_druid_> what henne said
18:44 <apokryphos> I know, but we can surely attempt to
18:44 <apokryphos> at the moment there's many resources, and none of them fit the bill
18:44 <apokryphos> hence we're trying to make a place that is. We plan on announcing it to the -project list soon, and contacting all authors of other sites
18:45 <apokryphos> we were wondering a little about licensing issues. Like whether we'd be able to use the opensuse logo; I imagine we could?
18:46 <adrianS> well, strictly speaking you need the permission for it
18:46 <apokryphos> who should we contact about that?
18:46 @<henne> just do it[tm]
18:47 <adrianS> but you can of course use it until someone has a problem
18:47 <apokryphos> ok, cool
18:47 <adrianS> michl is the right person to ask officially
18:47 * Beineri would think the rules of http://en.opensuse.org/Buttons apply unless told otherwise
18:47 <aka_druid_> if you ahvent received a letter to cease distribution, just do it
18:47 <apokryphos> also, we want to make it look like opensuse.org, but with of course differences, so there isn't too much of a clash for a new user going between them
18:48 <apokryphos> would there be a problem with us using some of the stylesheets, but changing a little on colour etc?
18:48 <adrianS> apokryphos: ask fs@suse.de for the wiki theme, if you need it
18:48 <aka_druid_> apokryphos: another useless work. A wiki needs to have content. All rest is bla
18:48 <apokryphos> the wiki won't be having *that* much content, since there aren't that many legally questionable things you can do, I hope :P
18:48 <apokryphos> adrianS: thank you, will do
18:49 <aka_druid_> I hope it to be more organizes than opensuse.org, which is a reason I dont use it.
18:49 <aka_druid_> to publish
18:49 <apokryphos> I think opensuse.org is quite organised actually :P
18:49 <aka_druid_> organized*, even
18:49 @<henne> well can we take this discussion onto the lists?
18:49 <aka_druid_> why not
18:49 <apokryphos> yeah, we plan on posting the announcement about it as soon as possible really
18:50 <apokryphos> to get community feedback
18:51 @<henne> okay
18:51 @<henne> anything else regarding the community meeting?
18:52 @<henne> alright
18:52 @<henne> Next Topic: Q&A
18:52 <adrianS> I think we can not answer the questions here ...
18:52 @<henne> To Michael Joyner: ask on opensuse-translation@opensuse.org
18:53 <adrianS> right
18:53 <adrianS> is IMHO the best way
18:53 @<henne> any other general questions?
18:53 @<henne> none?
18:53 <Beineri> -translation?
18:54 * Beineri doesn't think translators can do something about fonts or keyboard definitions
18:54 @<henne> what?
18:54 @<henne> oh well then on opensuse-m17n :)
18:54 <adrianS> right, -factory might be better
18:55 @<henne> or that one
18:55 <cb400f> bugzilla enhancement?
18:55 <adrianS> also possible ...
18:55 @<henne> you see. there are numerous ways :)
18:56 @<henne> any other questions?
18:56 <mesmero> Are there any good and up to date rpm packaging guides?
18:57 @<henne> what specific topic are you interested in?
18:57 <aka_druid_> !makerpms
18:57 <SUSEhelp> Startup for that in: y2pmsh-guide > http://opensuse.org/SUSE_Build_Tutorial * build.rpm > http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/feature/11793.html * If you want a complete guide, ask me for maxrpm , and convention for SUSE RPM Conventions.
18:57 <aka_druid_> erm, ask in #suse ?
18:57 <mesmero> ok, ty.
18:57 @<henne> alright, any other questions?
18:57 @<henne> (except the one you all have to ask yourself: "what do i send henne as a christmas gift?")
18:58 <apokryphos> another opensuse 10.2 box
18:58 <Tsuroerusu> henne: Are any questions accepted?
18:59 <cboltz> yes: "what will henne send me?" *SCNR*
18:59 @<henne> Tsuroerusu: anything general yes
18:59 <adrianS> okay, thanks a lot all ! have a nice christmas and a great new year !
18:59 <Tsuroerusu> henne: Great
19:00 <aka_druid_> *EOM*
19:00 @<henne> nothing more?
19:00 <Tsuroerusu> I still have problems with sound on my PowerPC Mac mini, is a patch gonna be available sometime soon or is that a new year prediction :P ?
19:00 <aka_druid_> no, EOM
19:00 <aka_druid_> EOM is end of meeting, btw
19:00 @<henne> Tsuroerusu: as we said last time. ask in bugzilla :)
19:01 @<henne> alright
19:01 @<henne> So that was it. If you have more dont hesitate to bring it up on the mailinglists.
19:01 <Tsuroerusu> henne: Well, I looked and it seems like people are talking about it, but nothing is happening :P Oh well, I don't wanna bug you guys too much
19:01 @<henne> Thank you all for participating. Good night and good luck!