Meetings/Project Meeting 2009-03-11/transcript

From openSUSE

17:00 <@henne> Welcome to the openSUSE Status Meeting!
17:00 <@henne> This meeting is meant to discuss the latest developments in and around openSUSE.
17:00 <@henne> The topics for this meeting are:
17:00 <@henne>    1.  Old Action Items
17:00 <@henne>    2. Project Direction Discussion
17:00 <@henne>    3. Roadmap Discussion
17:00 <@henne>    4. Geeko needs you! by AlbertoP
17:00 <@henne>    5. Proposal for a community based testing team by AlbertoP
17:00 <@henne>    6. Feedback / Questions on Trademark Policy
17:00 <@henne>    7. Status Questions
17:00 <@henne>    8. Q & A
17:00 <@henne> hey ho lets go!
17:01 <@henne> first topic: Old Action items
17:01 <@henne> you can find the im bugzilla with this link: http://tinyurl.com/2pr9qs
17:01  * suseROCKs waves to michl
17:01 < michl> moin, moin
17:01 <@henne> Bug 238355
17:01 < bugbot> openSUSE bug 238355 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "[AI] status of cn wiki" [Normal,Needinfo] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=238355
17:02 <@henne> does anyone know anything about the mediawiki update?
17:03 <@henne> cool
17:03 < suseROCKs> :-)
17:03 <@henne> Bug #352722
17:03 < bugbot> openSUSE bug 352722 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "[AI] women.opensuse.org - get more women involved in openSUSE" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=352722
17:03 <@henne> is Kaity around?
17:03 < michl> henne: I assume not
17:04 < AlbertoP> hi all
17:04 <@henne> we gotta kill that idea again...
17:04 < michl> what about closing that bug, if interest is rising again in it, we can reopen it
17:04 <@henne> yes
17:04 <@henne> doing it now
17:04 < simon123> +1
17:04 < suseROCKs> well are we doing anything to promote the idea?
17:05 <@henne> suseROCKs: you want to drive this?
17:05 <@henne> its an AI. not something in the back of our heads or anything
17:05 < suseROCKs> I'm not officially volunteering just yet.  But I'll look into it and see if i can come up with some ideas.
17:06 < suseROCKs> So I guess close for now, and if I come up with some awesome idea, reopen
17:06 <@henne> okay. have fun. i close the AI anyway :)
17:06  * suseROCKs wonders if Chrysantine has any ideas
17:06 < Chrysantine> Regarding what?
17:07 < suseROCKs> Chrysantine:   Women of openSUSE
17:07 < oldcpu> hmmm  http://identi.ca/tag/opensusewomen
17:07 < Chrysantine> suseROCKs: None to contribute at the moment ;)
17:08 < suseROCKs> is uberChick Kaity?
17:08 <@henne> yes
17:08 < suseROCKs> yes she is.  Perhaps you should have said her nick to get her attention  :-)
17:09 < simon123> it can work without opened AI
17:09 < Chrysantine> I'm not too hot on the subject of dividing sections on gender lines - I'd rather remain gender neutral on things.
17:09 <@henne> of course
17:10 < suseROCKs> Chrysantine:   I'm not sure of its goals atm, but I don't htink its meant to divide, but rather to recruit more users of openSUSE
17:10 <@henne> people
17:10 <@henne> this is not brainstorming about an idea
17:10 <@henne> this is an action item
17:10 < jbrockmeier> crack that whip, henne
17:10 <@henne> which is clearly not done or even started since months...
17:10 <@henne> so its closed. the next wonderfull AI is Bug #397053
17:10 < bugbot> openSUSE bug 397053 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "[AI] Screencast about the collaboration features of the BS" [Normal,Assigned] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=397053
17:11  * suseROCKs suffers the image of henne in leather and 6-inch heels with whip
17:11 <@henne> does my fosdem talk count here? ;)
17:11 < oldcpu> I liked it :)
17:11 <@henne> or is that something that could be done by the marketing team?
17:12 <@henne> jbrockmeier?
17:12 < jbrockmeier> henne: Yeah. I've got to prep for an OSCON talk anyway
17:12 < jbrockmeier> I'll need Adrian's help with the storyboard / script
17:12 < jbrockmeier> to check for accuracy
17:12 <@henne> okay. the you do it? :)
17:12 < suseROCKs> why marketing?  I think it should be done by someone who is directly involved with BS
17:12 < jbrockmeier> suseROCKs: isn't marketing directly involved with BS?
17:12 < jbrockmeier> *cough*
17:13 < jbrockmeier> oh, you mean OBS...
17:13  * henne looks out of the window
17:13 < suseROCKs> jbrockmeier:    I realized as soon as I hit enter  :-)
17:13 < jbrockmeier> henne: yeah, load 'er up.
17:13 < Chrysantine> Thar she blows.
17:13 < jbrockmeier> henne: can we put a mid-April due date on that?
17:13 <@henne> sure
17:13 < jbrockmeier> groovy
17:14 <@henne> next one. Bug #470181
17:14 < bugbot> openSUSE bug 470181 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "[AI] openSUSE Feature Team" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=470181
17:14 <@henne> michl?
17:14 < michl> feature team will meet early next week
17:14 <@henne> ah thatnks for the update :)
17:14  * henne pats michl 
17:14 < michl> we're just trying to find a decent time
17:15 < suseROCKs> yes  michl selected 7 a.m. my time.  Verrrry decent  :-)
17:15 < michl> NA, EMEA, APAC not easy to find a good time
17:15 < digitltom> free'michl: please collect missing features in openFATE for the feature team to do it's work
17:16 < jbrockmeier> suseROCKs: isn't everyone awake by 7 a.m.?
17:16 < michl> digitltom: will do but as explained this morning Fate doesn't love me anymore
17:16 < suseROCKs> Out of bed at 7 a.m. != actually awake
17:16 <@henne> okay next AI
17:16 < digitltom> free'michl: use openfate
17:17  * mrdocs|mob adds himself to openFATE
17:17 <@henne> oh oh
17:17 < michl> digitltom: what's openFate?
17:17 < suseROCKs> why is michl free?   I think he's invaluable.
17:17  * henne exiles suseROCKs to #opensuse-chat
17:18 < michl> henne: next AI please
17:18 <@henne> next AI Bug #470188
17:18 < bugbot> openSUSE bug 470188 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "[AI] Cleanup zh/cn/tw wiki situation" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=470188
17:18 < suseROCKs> while not knowing the actual status of this AI,  it might actually be a good AI for the proposed hackweek.
17:19 <@henne> cn seems up to date
17:19 <@henne> zh utterly outdated still
17:19 < oldcpu> its a big action :)
17:19 <@henne> michl: can you remember what this one was about?
17:19 < michl> henne: I know what the subject is telling
17:19 < localhorst> it's about that these guys cant get along ...
17:20 <@henne> you are dead!
17:20 < mrdocs|mob> !seen mrdocs|mob
17:20 < SUSEhelp> mrdocs|mob: mrdocs|mob said "!seen mrdocs|mob" in #openSUSE-project at Wed Mar 11 17:20:14 GMT 2009.
17:20 <@henne> its alive. its alive!
17:20  * henne runs
17:20 < oldcpu> old transcript is here:  http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/Project_Meeting_2009-01-28/transcript
17:20 < localhorst> the solution would be to make it as wikipedia, but they don't want to ... its a pita
17:21 < jbrockmeier> localhorst: who's "they"?
17:21 <@henne> localhorst: who is they?
17:21 < suseROCKs> What's the issue?
17:21 < localhorst> the cn,tw guys ...
17:21 < _Marcus_> china and taiwan? ;)
17:22 < localhorst> it should be one wiki with a language switch ...
17:22 < suseROCKs> oh, that's a UN matter
17:22 < Chrysantine> Hey now, they've been warming relations lately.
17:22 < oldcpu> proposal was to shut down inactive wiki?  ... but clear how inactive those were ?
17:22  * henne assigns to un@novell.com
17:23 < jbrockmeier> localhorst: are there any community members that are representing the cn,tw viewpoints?
17:23 < jbrockmeier> localhorst: and how does Wikipedia handle it?
17:23 < localhorst> iirc wikipedia hast the language switch, i proposed that but there was not much love for it :-)
17:24 < suseROCKs> who's leading the whole wiki stuff anyway?
17:24 < suseROCKs> (That part has been unclear to me and some others in the past)
17:24 < localhorst> good question :-)
17:25 < oldcpu> I think its classic Linux anarchy :)
17:25 < bgerber> It is not very cordinated
17:25 < suseROCKs> I'm subscribed to the wiki ML but there's barely ever a blip on it.
17:26 < jbrockmeier> I think suseROCKs is volunteering....
17:26  * jbrockmeier ducks
17:26 <@henne> wikipedia has no cn.
17:26 <@henne> we desperately need a way to close down language wikis
17:26 < localhorst> because cn is no language ... thats also part of the mess
17:26 <@henne> heh
17:26 < suseROCKs> crap!  I lost my internet connection.  Nothing's coming through....
17:27 <@henne> okay any takers for this one?
17:27 < suseROCKs> I suggest you put it out on the project ML and perhaps glean a wider audience for possible volunteers
17:27 <@henne> by you you mean you or me? ;)
17:27 < suseROCKs> We're much smaller in this meeting and keep taking on more tasks per person, thus defeating the purpose of community.
17:27 < suseROCKs> you as in y'all
17:28 <@henne> meaning not you
17:28 < suseROCKs> y'all!   :-)
17:28 <@henne> or do you volunteer? :)
17:28 < suseROCKs> I'll write an email to the project ML
17:28 <@henne> okay
17:28 < suseROCKs> I want to do another one anyway for Hackweek
17:29  * suseROCKs goes to wiki to read "How to compose an email in 3 easy steps!"
17:29 <@henne> whats your bugzilla login?
17:29 < suseROCKs> bryeny
17:29 <@henne> thanks
17:29 < suseROCKs> You're very welcome, you kind and gracious man.
17:29 <@henne> so next one is Bug #470189
17:29 < bugbot> openSUSE bug 470189 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "[AI] Send mail to opensuse-wiki to get rid of dead wikis" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=470189
17:30 <@henne> can you combine those two?
17:30 < mrdocs|mob> fugly jb :S
17:30 < suseROCKs> I was about to say
17:30 < mrdocs|mob> fugly job :S
17:30 < suseROCKs> fugly jbrockmeier???
17:30 < mrdocs|mob> whoops
17:31 < suseROCKs> henne:   Okay next?
17:31 < mrdocs|mob> there is a feature to drop dead pages in wikipedia
17:31 < mrdocs|mob> but you need sysop rights
17:32 < suseROCKs> ok so we AI henne  then  >:)
17:32 < bgerber> or localhorst
17:32 <@henne> next and last AI is Bug #479632
17:33 < bugbot> openSUSE bug 479632 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "[AI] Organize openSUSE Hackweek" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=479632
17:33 <@henne> michl?
17:33 < suseROCKs> No movement yet, but I was thinking the other day that I should post a mail to the ML to get wider discussion of hackweek ideas
17:34 < suseROCKs> Perhaps we should at least today, vote for agreement of the proposed date by michl?  (April 13-18)
17:35 < suseROCKs> I'm not sure how the idea for that date came about though.
17:36 <@henne> i guess michl and jbrockmeier can answer that
17:36 <@henne> if they would get their fingers out of their noses...
17:36 < jbrockmeier> henne: probably has something to do with it being a good date after SLE launch
17:37 <@henne> okay :)
17:37 < jbrockmeier> Hmmm. Though I wonder if tax week is a good time
17:37 < jbrockmeier> :-)
17:37 <@henne> tax week?
17:37 <@henne> do i want to know?
17:37 < jbrockmeier> or if everyone's going to be doing their taxes 4/13-4/15 and crying afterwards.
17:37 < suseROCKs> it also coincides with my A11y Hack Day   But that's unrelated to openSUSE  ;-)
17:37 < jbrockmeier> henne: We file taxes on 4/15 here in the U.S.
17:38 < jbrockmeier> which usually means a bunch of scrambling and paperwork the week prior.
17:38 < suseROCKs> Isn't each hour we participate in hackweek a tax deduction?  :-)
17:38 < jbrockmeier> suseROCKs: I wish. First we'd have to be a 501c3
17:38 <@henne> suseROCKs: i guess you have to include the date finding in your discussion
17:39 < jbrockmeier> and I don't know how the tax code works with volunteer time.
17:39 < simon123> jbrockmeier: that's idea to (501c3)
17:39 < jbrockmeier> suseROCKs: I used to volunteer for Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic, I can't recall if my time was tax-deductable.
17:39 <@henne> okay can we continue?
17:39 < suseROCKs> henne:   Well  we'll figure something out, and then I'll AI myself to mail to the project ML
17:39 < jbrockmeier> henne: please :-)
17:39 <@henne> ok
17:39 <@henne> thats it for AIs ten
17:39 < suseROCKs> jbrockmeier:   was the blind person dyslexic?
17:39 <@henne> then
17:40 <@henne> second topic is  Project Direction Discussion
17:40 <@henne> jbrockmeier
17:41 <@henne> or who?
17:41 < jbrockmeier> henne: this is actually a discussion I'd been having with JPR, AJ, & michl
17:42 <@henne> ok
17:42 <@henne> tell us about it :)
17:42 < jbrockmeier> henne: and we'd talked about putting up a wiki page and getting input. I'm not actually sure where we're at right at the moment.
17:42 < suseROCKs> oh is this the review team idea?
17:42 < jbrockmeier> michl might be more up to date than I am at the moment.
17:42 < jbrockmeier> suseROCKs: no - that's openFate
17:43 < suseROCKs> ok
17:43 <@henne> is michl awake?
17:43  * michl sleeping
17:44 < michl> 2 things: the Prague guys brought in their brainstorming that the goals of the project are unclear
17:44 < metalgod> jbrockmeier: whats the openfate # ?
17:44 < michl> see also: http://en.opensuse.org/BrainStorming_Prague#Unclear_goals_of_the_project
17:45 < michl> an aj set up a page about distribution focus
17:45 < michl> http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Distribution_Focus
17:45 < michl> I've been in Prague today and we had yesterday vibrant discussion about the project, the distribution etc.
17:46 < michl> the result imo opinion is that we need to live the goals and the focus more
17:46 < jbrockmeier> michl: where do we stand now - are we still going to push this page & discussion?
17:47 < jbrockmeier> michl: or stand on the existing goals?
17:47 < jbrockmeier> ah
17:47  * AlbertoP hopes suseROCKs brought sandwitches :P
17:47 < michl> jbrockmeier: imo the existing ones stand
17:47 < michl> http://en.opensuse.org/Project_Overview
17:47 < michl> but eg., the target group should be prioritized
17:48 < michl> the experienced user is prio1 as he may act as multiplier and get new users to the distro and the project
17:48 < michl> and from a distro focus we are what we are: server, desktop & sw development kit
17:49 < michl> one point eg. was brought up by many people:
17:49  * henne is saying since ages that thats a good thing
17:49 < michl> our feature lists are always long but we don't advertise the top 3 of them
17:49 < suseROCKs> anything on customized versions, which I think can also serve as a multiplier?  Like AlbertoP's proposed Home Server appliance,  openSUSE-EDU, and possibly many more focuses out there?
17:50  * AlbertoP btw found some nice backup stuff...not exactly easy to configure for a "normal user" though. They all require text editing ¬¬
17:51 <@henne> so can someone please tell me what the purpose of this is?
17:51 < michl> there are even Personas existing for the distribution - we (=michl and other internal guys) need to publish them in the wiki
17:51 <@henne> technical direction of the distro?
17:51 <@henne> direction of the project overall?
17:52 < michl> henne: its as usually both
17:52 < metalgod> i would like to express my opinion here, i think we should focus on bringing some tools for developers
17:52 < metalgod> developers bring new users
17:52 < metalgod> i.e. we don't ship multiple versions of automake
17:52  * michl couldn't agree more
17:52 < metalgod> which is a pain to build bleeding edge software from source as i do
17:53 < AlbertoP> metalgod, could I add broken java out of the box. benJIman can confirm I guess
17:53 < AlbertoP> and eww, IDE's ¬¬
17:53 <@henne> metalgod: thats a feature
17:53 <@henne> AlbertoP: thats a bug
17:53 < benJIman> Java itself is ok, java server stuff and development tools are all broken.
17:53 < metalgod> i have to build automake 1.4, 1.7 etc... to be able to run some stuff i need to work
17:54 < metalgod> we got to stick to "we need to inovate" theme
17:54 < AlbertoP> henne, right, a bug that has been there since ever though, and everytime I ask for a working eclipse and stuff I get horrible answers
17:54 < darix> metalgod: one could also fix the apps.
17:54 < michl> jbrockmeier: do you have something to add for goals and focus?
17:54 < darix> normally newer automake versions just got more strict
17:54 < metalgod> darix: no, you don't want to fix gtk+ autotools stuff :)
17:55 < jbrockmeier> michl: I think we still have some work to do on being more focused and also stating it more clearly
17:55 < jbrockmeier> michl: after the Prague summit, I don't know how relevant the page is anymore.
17:55 <@henne> AlbertoP: like?
17:55 < jbrockmeier> but I think it's still a discussion we need to have on -project.
17:55 < prusnak> AlbertoP: we have 0.8 people working on java, it takes 1 person to take care of maintainance only ...
17:55 < michl> jbrockmeier: yes, statint it more clearly but don't event the wheel again
17:55 <@henne> and i still think that this discussion is useless
17:55 < AlbertoP> henne, like "download it and install it from the eclipse site"
17:55 < benJIman> prusnak: Good thing it's not the most popular development platform in the world.
17:55 <@henne> unless there are conrete tasks arising from this
17:56 < michl> invent the wheel  - of course :-(
17:56 < jbrockmeier> henne: I don't disagree with that.
17:56 <@henne> i was not involved at all in this
17:56 < AlbertoP> prusnak, can I reply that you should tell who is responsible for resource assignment that he should rebuild the priority list? ;-)
17:56 <@henne> and i must say i kind of dont get it....
17:56 <@henne> not that i was not involved but what it is about
17:56 <@henne> of course :)
17:57 <@henne> its like AlbertoP has a bug and metalgod a feature and someone thinks we should do home server
17:57 <@henne> and now what exactlyhas that to do with the technical direction of the distro? :)
17:57 < metalgod> henne: no it's not a feature
17:57 < jbrockmeier> henne: sort of about that
17:58 < jbrockmeier> henne: everyone has an opinion of what openSUSE should be
17:58 < jbrockmeier> henne: usually based on what they want to do with Linux
17:58 <@henne> metalgod: of course. multipleautomake versions is a feature. trust me...
17:58 < AlbertoP> henne, ok sorry for mixing stufff (btw, I've no bugs)
17:58 < jbrockmeier> henne: as a project, we need to focus on certain uses
17:58 < metalgod> i'm just telling you an example of why i think openSUSE should be more "developers friendly"
17:58 < jbrockmeier> henne: we can't "boil the ocean"
17:58 < jbrockmeier> henne: the OBS, SUSE Studio, etc. let people make openSUSE pretty much whatever they want
17:58 < metalgod> the tools are already here
17:58 < jbrockmeier> henne: but as a project, and Novell's internal eng. teams, we can only do so much
17:59  * AlbertoP nods
17:59 < nadvornik> I think that the main problem is this: http://en.opensuse.org/BrainStorming_Prague#Distribution_is_hacker-unfriendly
17:59 < jbrockmeier> henne: so we have to say 'we're going to do X, Y, and Z"
17:59 < jbrockmeier> and leave the rest of the alphabet to the community
17:59 <@henne> metalgod: i know. im talking about the technical implementation...
17:59 < jbrockmeier> and if someone wants to do something that we're not doing, they have the tools.
17:59 < jbrockmeier> and we will (to the best of our ability) support that too.
17:59 < metalgod> nadvornik: right that's my vision
18:00 < jbrockmeier> henne: is that any clearer?
18:00 < jbrockmeier> michl: did I misstate anything?
18:00 < michl> jbrockmeier: not from my point of view ;-)
18:00 < metalgod> opensuse somewhat scares hackers away
18:01 <@henne> why?
18:01 < metalgod> henne: because other distros provide easy access to hacker tools
18:01 < metalgod> like i said before the automake example
18:01 < AlbertoP> I think the cz guys said that clearly in one of their points too
18:02 < AlbertoP> also because its config is "different" and "not standard"
18:02 < digitltom> henne: because you can't for example do java development with only suse rpms
18:02 < AlbertoP> (not saying worse)
18:02 <@henne> digitltom: that scares java hackers away yes
18:02 < jbrockmeier> AlbertoP: 1) would being standard break openSUSE current development?
18:03 <@henne> digitltom: and thats a concrete example which is fixable
18:03 < jbrockmeier> AlbertoP: 2) have you filed bugs on this?
18:03 <@henne> scares hackers away is not
18:03 < AlbertoP> jbrockmeier, well...one of the complaints on the cz list was that yast is intrusive in user settings, and indeed it is something I hear often
18:04 < prusnak> henne has a point here, we are not trying to solve particular problems here, we have openfate/bugzilla for that
18:04 < Stano> AlbertoP: unfortunatelly, this tends to be urban legend in most of the areas
18:04 <@henne> exactly
18:04 < tacit> So they didn't read the manual and hacked the config file instead of putting it in the appropriate inlcuded file?
18:04 < AlbertoP> Stano, not really...
18:04 < nadvornik> hackers have a choice to fill hundreds of bugreports or install debian
18:05 < Stano> AlbertoP: if you have examples, file bugs - I'm aware of sax e.g., but there is not all over the place - but we are getting into too much technical detail here
18:05 < AlbertoP> Stano, take a look at how well samba module does if you change stuff in your config without using yast for example...
18:05 <@henne> AlbertoP: and you think thats different on debian?
18:05 < Stano> AlbertoP: good point, we should discuss how to improve that
18:05 < AlbertoP> Stano, I won't file anything because it was filed long time ago :)
18:05 < Stano> AlbertoP: I've written the original samba module ;-)
18:06 < AlbertoP> henne, I'm saying it's a problem, not that someone else does better :P
18:06 <@henne> AlbertoP: i know what you are saying. im just saying its not true :)
18:06 < AlbertoP> Stano, plus ehm...what should we do to convince security guys that those damn ports MUST be open to have samba work? ;-)
18:07 < Stano> AlbertoP: what's the focus of the distro? - if you have technical vision, you can then argue about stuff like open ports
18:07 < AlbertoP> henne, well...that's what others say too, and it's on the cz brainstorming list, so I'm not alone :)
18:07 < AlbertoP> Stano, well...I think it's well defined in the slogan
18:07 < suseROCKs> crikey the time...
18:07 < jbrockmeier> Stano: agreed
18:07 <@henne> AlbertoP: i know. i just miss concrete examples
18:07 < Stano> AlbertoP: slogan?
18:08 <@henne> AlbertoP: because if you ask concrete stuff it usually boils down to something fixable
18:08 < AlbertoP> if you want to be the "most usable linux distro", your module to config samba MUST make samba work, not that you need to hack the firewall with obscure settings
18:08 < michl> Stano: don't know - but it might be "Have a lot of fun!"
18:08 < AlbertoP> I asked these things long ago, I keep asking them at each release...
18:08 < jbrockmeier> AlbertoP: at each release, or before? :-)
18:09 < AlbertoP> jbrockmeier, I joined here at 9.3 times >:)
18:09 <@henne> AlbertoP: and thats just policy
18:09 < AlbertoP> henne, policy? what do you mean?
18:09 < suseROCKs> henne:   what other topics do we have left?
18:09 <@henne> AlbertoP: that we enable a firewall by default :)
18:09 <@henne> suseROCKs: a lot
18:10 < metalgod> henne: should i open a feature for automake stuff ?
18:10 <@henne> metalgod: yes please :)
18:10 < metalgod> will do
18:10 < AlbertoP> henne, I'm not asking to turn it off, just that when you click in the samba module "open ports bla bla" it actually does that...
18:10 <@henne> metalgod: please cc me and i put the right people in cc
18:10 < Stano> AlbertoP: then it's a bug
18:10 < AlbertoP> henne, the current functionality is partial
18:10 <@henne> AlbertoP: there we go. if the samba module does not do that then its a bug that needs to be reported :)
18:10 < AlbertoP> Stano, no it is refused by security team waiting for some stuff whatever >:)
18:11 < Stano> AlbertoP: strange, but I cannot comment on that, I don't have the facts at hand
18:11 < AlbertoP> conntrack if I remember the name correctly :)
18:11 < AlbertoP> Stano, dig in bugzilla, it's related to highports and samba
18:11 <@henne> AlbertoP: please reopen that bug and take me to cc
18:11 < AlbertoP> ooook
18:12 < Stano> AlbertoP: me too, thanks!
18:12 <@henne> and Stano too ;)
18:12 < AlbertoP> ehm addresses?
18:12 <@henne> okay i guess its reallyhard to wade trough all this
18:12 <@henne> AlbertoP: hvogel@novell.com
18:12 < Stano> AlbertoP: visnov@novell.com
18:12 <@henne> i hate that
18:13 <@henne> mv visnov stano
18:13 <@henne> okay next topic?
18:13 < suseROCKs> yes please.
18:13  * AlbertoP has to run now though...so well, testing team/geeko wants you...feel free to talk without me or to move at another meeting
18:13 <@henne> or can someone summarize what we will do now?
18:13 < jbrockmeier> AlbertoP: can you bring up on -marketing?
18:14 <@henne> AlbertoP: ill move it. thanks
18:14 < jbrockmeier> and at the marketing meeting next week?
18:14  * michl makes the kids dinner
18:14 < AlbertoP> jbrockmeier, well meetings are in office hours, so it depends...ML for sure
18:14 <@henne> michl: i want fischstäbchen and pommes
18:14 < jbrockmeier> AlbertoP: groovy. Thanks
18:15 <@henne> okay no summary for the Project Direction Discussion then
18:15 <@henne> next topic: Roadmap Discussion
18:15 <@henne> whats left to discuss?
18:16 < suseROCKs> We need a Fichte song  :-)
18:16 < jbrockmeier> henne: I put that in in case someone was unclear on the roadmap
18:16 < jbrockmeier> any Q's?
18:16 <@henne> ah i c
18:17 < suseROCKs> There are some people out there who are alluding to our roadmap being 8 month cycles as a direct result of the layoffs.
18:17 <@henne> will we hand out free copies of ISBN#3485011614
18:17 <@henne> suseROCKs: there are people out there smoking crack too
18:17 < suseROCKs> I think its important for all of us to remind people that this roadmap is borne of the discussion provided  via the community.
18:17 < AlbertoP> will file the samba issue again, it's probably too old to be on bugzilla
18:17 < Chrysantine> mMmm.. This some good crack.
18:18 < suseROCKs> We ARE a community and its important that we remind people of the existence of our community.
18:18 <@henne> suseROCKs: people that think that the roadmap is a result of the layoffs?
18:18 < suseROCKs> the ones who smoke crack, yes  :-)
18:18 <@henne> suseROCKs: i dont think you need to remind them of anything
18:18 < jbrockmeier> suseROCKs: yeah, that's a big NO
18:19 < jbrockmeier> suseROCKs: if people have issues with the roadmap, that's one thing, but just because they were announced in the same time period doesn't mean they're connected
18:19 < suseROCKs> I'm just saying, we should be proud of ourselves for being a part of the discussion.   Don't be afraid to remind others of that  :-)
18:20 < suseROCKs> jbrockmeier:   I totally agree and personally see no connection whatsoever.
18:21  * henne says it out loud: i'm roadmap and proud
18:21 <@henne> okay next topic
18:21 <@henne> Feedback / Questions on the Trademark Policy
18:21 <@henne> anything?
18:22 <@henne> not everyone together. one by one
18:23 < suseROCKs> henne:   Now everyone stops because they're waiting for someone else to go first  :-)
18:23 < Chrysantine> Why is the guideline only available in pdf.
18:23  * Chrysantine pokes henne 
18:23 < jbrockmeier> Chrysantine: it's not
18:23 < Beineri> why does it try (and fail) to list every -branding-openSUSE package?
18:24 < jbrockmeier> http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Trademark_Guidelines
18:24  * Chrysantine feels correcetd.
18:24 < Chrysantine> And now even more so corrected.
18:24 < Chrysantine> jbrockmeier: Just clicked the announcement link it seems. /slap self.
18:25 <@henne> Beineri: which one s missing?
18:25 < jbrockmeier> Beineri: we lack your perfection
18:25 < Stano> IMO it's wrong to try to list them
18:25 < Beineri> henne: all KDE stuff. but the question is, do you want to have to update the guidelines for every new release?
18:25 < Stano> in the guidelines
18:26 < jbrockmeier> Beineri: we plan to update the guidelines, not necessarily with the next release
18:26 < prusnak> yes, isn't it sufficient to say remove all *-branding-openSUSE packages?
18:26  * Stano agrees with Beineri
18:26 < Beineri> jbrockmeier: but if the next release introduces a new foo-branding-openSUSE package?
18:26 < jbrockmeier> Beineri:  we said from the outset that we knew we'd need to update them
18:26 < jbrockmeier> Beineri: then make a positive suggestion :-)
18:26 < prusnak> just 3 days ago I renamed xfce4-desktop-branding-openSUSE to xfce4-branding-openSUSE
18:26 < Beineri> jbrockmeier: if it's not clear to you, prusnak just said it
18:27 < jbrockmeier> prusnak: there's no reason why that wouldn't work.
18:27 <@henne> jbrockmeier: *-branding-openSUSE sounds sufficent
18:27 < prusnak> zypper understands wildcards
18:27 < jbrockmeier> henne: I don't disagree
18:27 <@henne> jbrockmeier: thats the naming scheme thats equal for every branding package
18:28 <@henne> jbrockmeier: okay so you change it? :)
18:28 < jbrockmeier> henne: I can put it in the list for the next change, sure.
18:28 < prusnak> thanks
18:28 <@henne> jbrockmeier: ok
18:28 <@henne> anything else regarding the guidelines? :)
18:28 <@henne> sorry policy
18:29 < suseROCKs> I'd take that as a no and move on.
18:29 < Beineri> is there a service to have one's CD checked against the policy? :-)
18:30  * Beineri is too lazy to think against what he might violate
18:30 < suseROCKs> Beineri delayed his question for dramatic effect  :-)
18:30 <@henne> Beineri: of course not :)
18:30 < Beineri> or I just wait until the complaint letter ;-)
18:30 < jbrockmeier> Beineri: it's a self-service policy
18:31  * Chrysantine chuckles.
18:31 <@henne> next topic?
18:31 < jbrockmeier> if you're in doubt, you can ask permission@novell.com but what will likely happen is we'll respond and ask what you think violates the policy
18:32 <@henne> jbrockmeier: who is that btw?
18:32 <@henne> jbrockmeier: permission
18:32 < jbrockmeier> henne: it goes to one of Novell's paralegals, who forwards the requests to the appropriate people
18:32 < jbrockmeier> Sue Goodwill if I recall correctly.
18:32 <@henne> ok
18:33 < jbrockmeier> henne: if you send it to permission@novell.com it will go to me if it's openSUSE related
18:33 < jbrockmeier> and I'll get the board involved and Novell legal if necessary.
18:33 <@henne> that i know. i just wondered where that goes to
18:33 <@henne> :)
18:34 <@henne> okay so next topic
18:34 < jbrockmeier> henne: I had to send a query and ask. :-) "OK, who's getting this?"
18:34 <@henne> a quick one
18:34 <@henne> status questions
18:34 <@henne> you CANT find the status mails ANYWHERE
18:34 <@henne> so you CANT have questions
18:34 <@henne> next tlopic
18:35 <@henne> topic
18:35 <@henne> 8)
18:35 < Beineri> AI find someone to add the status mails to meeting page?
18:35 <@henne> eheh
18:36 <@henne> jbrockmeier: can you do that next time?
18:37 < jbrockmeier> henne: shouldn't that be up to each person doing the status reports?
18:37 < jbrockmeier> I'm not sure that the various mails have been sent...
18:38 < jbrockmeier> henne: assuming the mails have been sent, I'll add them for the next meeting
18:38 <@henne> jbrockmeier: i guess its easier to tell them to have a specific string in the subject
18:38 <@henne> jbrockmeier: so you can find them with the lists search
18:39 <@henne> like use "^Status:"
18:40 < jbrockmeier> henne: feel free to put me down on that one, I suppose - unless someone else has a burning desire to do so
18:40 <@henne> you then can use http://lists.opensuse.org/cgi-bin/search.cgi?query=Status%3A&metaname=subject&list=all&timeframe=month
18:40 <@henne> okay
18:40 < jbrockmeier> (Not to confuse with a burning sensation)
18:41 <@henne> so then the last topic
18:41 <@henne> general Q&A
18:41 <@henne> nothing on the wiki so  any general questions here?
18:42 < metalgod> regarding to Roadmap will we get the usual BETAs in time ?
18:42 < metalgod> i mean so we can have people testing before GM and Final
18:43 <@henne> ?
18:43 <@henne> do you if we plan to be in time or if we promise to be in time? ;)
18:44 < metalgod> depending of how much time before final
18:44 < metalgod> 2 months before would be good
18:44 < Beineri> henne: there are two question under 2) in the wiki
18:44  * Beineri will not answer though :-)
18:44 < Chrysantine> I do have one as well - would it be possible to get a fuzzy matching logic implemented for the Wiki a'la Wikipedia?
18:45 < Chrysantine> For example if I type en.opensuse.org/woot it would automatically redirect to the closest match, for example wootfoot
18:45 <@henne> Chrysantine: features.o.o? :)
18:45  * Chrysantine makes note.
18:46 <@henne> we would need to find someone to implement so dont hold your breath but thats the place :)
18:46 < Chrysantine> Isn't that built into Mediawiki?
18:46 < metalgod> another question: there will be a wiki page for the official features for 11.2 ?
18:46 <@henne> Beineri: i thought they were for the direction discussion
18:46 < suseROCKs> I'm taking off for a little bit, but we, the Board, have  ameeting later today.   Is there anything you guys wish for the board to discuss?
18:47 <@henne> metalgod: you mean high level features?
18:48 <@henne> metalgod: can you elaborate?
18:48 < metalgod> henne: well fedora does have a cool wiki page with the features accepted for every new release
18:48 <@henne> Chrysantine: i dont know but still someone would need to do it
18:48 < metalgod> it could be interesting if we have the same
18:48  * Chrysantine nudges.
18:48 <@henne> metalgod: we have openfate. thats way cooler than any wiki page can be :)
18:49 < digitltom> metalgod: but we can generate this list on the fly with openfate now
18:49 < jbrockmeier> metalgod: we've done that for 11.0 and 11.1, don't see any reason not to for 11.2
18:49 < metalgod> and where can we see the ones that will go to 11.2 ?
18:50 <@henne> metalgod: https://features.opensuse.org/query/run?type=find
18:50 <@henne> oops
18:50 <@henne> just query for 11.2 and status done :)
18:50 < metalgod> ok
18:51 <@henne> im sure digitltom can generate a link...
18:52 <@henne> okay any other general questions?
18:52 < metalgod> ok we have 6 not bad :)
18:52 < digitltom> i can, but the result is not very big for 11.2 right now
18:52 < digitltom> https://features.opensuse.org/query/run?type=find&search_products[]=PROJ_00000455&search_status[]=done
18:52 <@henne> digitltom: not your fault ;)
18:53 < jbrockmeier> 6 features? Well, it will make writing the release notes very fast.
18:53 < digitltom> metalgod: "will go to 11.2" is a bit hard to query
18:54  * Beineri suggests do add another 8 month to the 11.2 development for 6 more features
18:54 < jpr> hehe
18:54 <@henne> hahahahaha
18:54 < jbrockmeier> lol
18:54 < metalgod> of course features like "disable pulseaudio" are unacceptable :)
18:54  * metalgod runs
18:54 <@henne> digitltom: if you want the truth its 11.2 and done :)
18:55 <@henne> on the day of GM of course
18:55 <@henne> okay enough of this. any other questions not related to digitltoms baby?
18:55 < digitltom> there should be more features already be evaluated by the managers and in state implementation
18:56 <@henne> shoulda woulda coulda ;)
18:56 < digitltom> yes!
18:57 <@henne> Okay that's it then. If you have more, don't hesitate to bring it up on the appropriate mailinglist.
18:57 <@henne> The next project meeting will be in two weeks. Same channel but this time at 13:00 CET!!!
18:57 <@henne> Thank you all for participating. Good night and good luck!