Meetings/Project Meeting 2008-08-13/transcript

[18:02:47] <notlocalhorst> grr, my op status is not working ... [18:03:43] <notlocalhorst> ok, so no change of topic :-( let's start [18:03:52] <notlocalhorst> agenda: [18:03:59] <notlocalhorst> 1 old action items [18:04:09] <notlocalhorst> 2 status questions [18:04:19] <notlocalhorst> 3 q&a [18:04:55] <notlocalhorst> 1) action items [18:05:00] <notlocalhorst> Bug #413544 [18:05:02] <bugbot> openSUSE bug 413544 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "[AI] Discuss inclusion of KDE 3.5.x within openSUSE 11.1" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=413544 [18:05:06] <notlocalhorst> michl? [18:05:35] <michl> wants to wait till the KDE guys are back from aKademy [18:05:48] <notlocalhorst> fair enough, so wip [18:05:50] <michl> will start the discussion latest on MOnday [18:06:13] <notlocalhorst> bug #164761 [18:06:15] <bugbot> openSUSE bug 164761 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "[AI] built service trust/rating system" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=164761 [18:06:20] <notlocalhorst> mjung? [18:06:28] <notlocalhorst> oh, its wip to [18:06:49] <mjung> ja. [18:07:08] <notlocalhorst> all others AI are open for me, execept the OBS screencast the are related to the wiki, which is also wip [18:07:42] <notlocalhorst> there is a problem with the database conversion, but we are working on it [18:08:26] <notlocalhorst> if there are no questions about the AIs, i will skip to 2) status questions [18:09:04] <Beineri_> what's the status of Factory? [18:09:24] <notlocalhorst> adrianS ? [18:09:33] <cooloTiger> as in how it works? [18:09:53] <adrianS> we are in the process of getting it generated by the OBS [18:09:57] * cooloTiger tested an USB image built from Factory and didn't find any problem [18:10:12] <adrianS> currently the ftp generation does not work, because of some not building packages [18:10:19] <adrianS> because non free packages are not available [18:10:27] <adrianS> we are in the process of cleaning this [18:11:23] <Beineri_> cooloTiger: also as in planning, there will be an additional Alpha 3? [18:11:30] Alias Beineri_ er nu kendt som Beineri. [18:11:54] <Beineri> and, any updates from the board? :-) [18:12:25] <AJaeger> beineri: I'm writing the election committee announcement this week... [18:12:42] <cooloTiger> Beineri: alpha3 was always planned. it just skipped out of the announcement for some unknown reason [18:13:05] <AJaeger> .. just have a problem to get hold of one member. [18:13:49] * Beineri ponders about a Communication / Event question ;-).. [18:14:01] <Beineri> mjung: enough volunteers for the FroSCOn booth? [18:14:12] <mjung> Beineri: yes. [18:14:18] <mjung> Beineri: right now we have 6 people [18:14:28] <AJaeger> mjung: cool! [18:14:41] <mjung> Beineri: today we got offered a talk. [18:14:57] <mjung> Beineri: most likely martin and I will give one on openSUSE 11 [18:14:57] <Beineri> mjung: in some developer room or main tracks? [18:15:27] <notlocalhorst> mjung: was there already something on news.o.o? if not please write something short, thanks [18:15:28] <mjung> Beineri: in HS05. It is a smaller room, but better than no openSUSE related talk. [18:16:06] <mjung> notlocalhorst: is now on my todo list. [18:16:16] <notlocalhorst> k [18:17:06] <notlocalhorst> let's skip to 3) Q&A ... there is one question on the wiki: "How can users move packages in the build service into Factory? How can we handle user-contributed packages?" [18:17:09] <notlocalhorst> adrianS: [18:17:36] <AJaeger> cooloTiger: What do you think? Where did the discussion on factory end? [18:17:52] * AJaeger was busy with a training the last three days [18:18:19] <cooloTiger> AJaeger: alex created a wiki page with the current status of the rules for a contrib repo proposed [18:18:36] <cooloTiger> next step would be to collect suggestions on what packages currently available in other repos would be included [18:18:44] <AJaeger> cooloTiger: do you have the URL of that page? [18:18:53] <cooloTiger> I asked adrian to look at the thread to give his input if it's technically feasible [18:18:58] <cooloTiger> not on OSX, no :) [18:19:11] <cb400f> http://en.opensuse.org/User:FenixNBK [18:19:12] <cooloTiger> but Beineri has the recent changes always open in a tab... [18:19:30] <cooloTiger> and there are already 3 people that volunteered of masters of the jungle [18:19:50] <cooloTiger> I'm pretty happy how quickly a thread starting with frustration turned into something constructive [18:20:07] <Beineri> cooloTiger: do you mean http://techbase.kde.org/Special:Recentchanges ? :-) [18:20:33] <cooloTiger> who's missing on that page is Cristian R [18:20:37] <AJaeger> cb400f: I wouldn't have expected there - checked recent changes but did not look there [18:20:48] <cgoncalves> Beineri: rather en.opensuse.org/Special:Recentchanges? :-) [18:20:49] <AJaeger> Let's move that page into the normal wiki space... [18:21:15] <cooloTiger> once we have that repo, we'll review our current factory if not more stuff should be moved into contrib [18:21:25] Forbind FunkyPenguin er gået med i kanalen (n=andrew@forcev.demon.co.uk). [18:21:50] <cooloTiger> we need factory as a pool to create products/media from [18:22:22] * AJaeger just looked over the page and considers it a good idea, let's start with it and refine the concept... [18:22:25] <cooloTiger> but all the other packages that are currently in factory, can easily live only "outside" of Novell - of course not preventing Novell from contributing to contrib [18:22:58] <AJaeger> adrianS: Any technical problems from your side? [18:23:11] <cooloTiger> I briefly looked and only ~20% of the packages in repos/oss are on DVD [18:23:23] <cb400f> still need a good name.. maybe "oss-extra".. or something.. universe or contrib gives too much credit to competitors ;-) [18:23:49] <FunkyPenguin> cb400f: so does extra [18:24:34] <AJaeger> cb400f: No problem with the credit, those are not the real competition. Such names might help others to recognize what we do. [18:25:01] <cooloTiger> I like contrib more than universe. And extra is pretty - well, saying nothing [18:25:14] <cooloTiger> contrib might too light, depending on what we'll end up having in there [18:25:25] <FunkyPenguin> +1 for contrib [18:25:29] <cooloTiger> but that should be the least of our problems I hope, let's vote :) [18:25:39] <cooloTiger> (not necessarly right now) [18:26:24] <adrianS> AJaeger: no problems and even less when we really can build openSUSE in external OBS ;) [18:26:30] <notlocalhorst> right, so is there an ai to write down or will the discussion go on on the ml? [18:26:37] <cooloTiger> but the general consensus is: we build factory in OBS and we build contrib in OBS and we make it very easy to contribute patches to factory and packages to contrib [18:26:45] <cooloTiger> and little less easy to contribute packages to factory [18:27:20] <adrianS> so, it would basically a openSUSE:Contrib project like openSUSE:NonFree ? [18:27:26] <cooloTiger> the rules for new packages in the product need to stay as they are - unless someone wants to sign a contract to mainain the package 2 years (to name one reason) [18:27:57] <cooloTiger> adrianS: yes. with community members as maintainer [18:28:29] <cooloTiger> and I guess it would build on top of nonfree [18:28:29] <adrianS> hm, if too many people can write to it, it might become a problem that it never ends building [18:28:43] <adrianS> but we can face it when it occurs ... [18:28:51] <adrianS> also possible ... [18:29:09] <AJaeger> So, we have basic consensus and the community members should work on the details and start with it... [18:29:12] <cooloTiger> adrianS: well, in my model most packages live somewhere else (in home:) and ~5 people take submitreqs [18:29:27] <adrianS> okay, that works in any case [18:29:46] <cooloTiger> adrianS: the challenge is to have one for every release frozen [18:30:00] <adrianS> but external community members can be responsible for review and approval ? [18:30:02] <cooloTiger> I mean the technical challenge you need to answer [18:30:06] <cooloTiger> sure! [18:30:15] <adrianS> k [18:30:40] <Jonathan_R> AJaeger, would yall mind if i wrote a book on zypper [18:30:56] <adrianS> I would recommend that we have a rule that a package in openSUSE:Factory should not again exists in :NonFree and :Contrib [18:31:07] <adrianS> we can support this be checks on the server side [18:31:14] <adrianS> s,be,with, [18:31:47] <cooloTiger> that should be a given. the cascade is factory->nonfree->contrib [18:32:08] <AJaeger> Jonathan_R: not at all and if you need some review, feel free to ask on the yast and zypp mailing lists. [18:32:23] <Jonathan_R> i will [18:32:31] * cooloTiger notes AJaeger is not in IM :) [18:32:38] <Jonathan_R> i tried getting people to review the book i'm doing for smart [18:32:39] Afslut erikja har forladt denne server ("Leaving"). [18:32:46] <adrianS> the point is, technically it is possible to "overwrite" packages [18:32:49] <Jonathan_R> but found very few reviewed it [18:32:59] <adrianS> for example replacing kernel-default in Contrib [18:32:59] <AJaeger> cooloTiger: Now I am [18:33:04] <adrianS> I thing we do not want this [18:33:06] <adrianS> think [18:33:11] <Jonathan_R> but i do want to do some serious documentation for zypper [18:33:23] <cooloTiger> yes, this should not be done - if you read the rules. That's why the maintainers of the project should be pretty limited [18:33:55] <adrianS> and we will support it in OBS Server later on with automatic tests ... [18:34:00] <adrianS> to prevent this situation [18:34:10] <adrianS> we need such a thing anyway ... [18:34:18] <cooloTiger> good [18:34:28] <cooloTiger> ok, then - no problem left beside to [18:34:33] <cooloTiger> a) write up the rules [18:34:35] <cooloTiger> b) find a name [18:34:43] <cooloTiger> c) find candidate packages [18:34:49] <cooloTiger> d) engage! [18:34:58] <AJaeger> Jonathan_R: We appreciate any books regarding openSUSE and zypper is really something I do not want to miss anymore... [18:35:06] <Jonathan_R> ok [18:35:16] <Jonathan_R> it'll take me time [18:35:20] <cooloTiger> and we have volunteers. topic done? [18:35:23] <Jonathan_R> but i'll get it done [18:36:02] <AJaeger> Jonathan_R: Glad to hear. [18:36:10] <Jonathan_R> didnt zypper evolve from red carpet [18:36:29] <AJaeger> Jonathan_R: Please let's not discuss this during the project meeting! [18:36:36] <Jonathan_R> sorry [18:36:55] <notlocalhorst> np, but lets go on ... any other general questions? [18:36:57] <AJaeger> cooloTiger: Yes, I think done for today. I look forward to a status update in 2 weeks ;) [18:37:11] * adrianS needs to leave [18:37:17] <javier_> hello guys... im the es.opensuse.org sysop and i was wondering what happened with #opensuse-wiki [18:37:46] <notlocalhorst> not very crowded :-) [18:37:46] <cooloTiger> good, suspend [18:38:19] <javier_> hehe [18:38:39] <notlocalhorst> i never used the channel, maybe ask on the wiki ml ... dunno if there is need for a channel, but why not [18:38:45] <notlocalhorst> maybe nobody knows ... [18:39:20] <javier_> it could be a way to coordinate efforts [18:39:23] <javier_> ok [18:39:35] <notlocalhorst> yeah .. and welcome to the wiki team! :-) [18:39:57] <AJaeger> so, let's make the channel more known [18:40:08] <notlocalhorst> yes, other questions? [18:40:21] <javier_> thanks :-) [18:41:15] <javier_> AJaeger: dont we have to register that channel first? [18:41:38] * AJaeger is not an IRC expert - notlocalhorst is one... [18:41:51] <javier_> ok [18:41:58] <notlocalhorst> not really ... maybe it's already registered, i will find out [18:42:11] <javier_> i think it isn't [18:42:38] <notlocalhorst> if not we should do it, and than announce it ... [18:43:09] <javier_> i think it is announced somewhere on the wiki [18:43:28] <notlocalhorst> than we should make sure its registered [18:43:31] <notlocalhorst> so, let's call it a day, see you in 2 weeks .. thanks & bye