Meetings/Project Meeting 2008-07-30/transcript

[14:01] <Beineri> Welcome to the openSUSE Project Meeting! [14:01] <Beineri> This meeting is meant to discuss the latest developments in and around openSUSE. [14:01] <AJaeger> Oh, finally some action, I feared everybody was asleep - thanks Beineri for chairing, I'll shutup now ;) [14:01] <Beineri> The agenda for this meeting is: [14:01] <Beineri> 1. Old Action Items [14:01] <Beineri> 2. Status Questions [14:01] <Beineri> 3. Q & A [14:02] <Beineri> first topic: Old Action Items [14:02] <Beineri> you can find the action items in bugzilla [14:02] <Beineri> with this link: http://tinyurl.com/2pr9qs [14:02] <Beineri> bug 164761 [14:02] <bugbot> openSUSE bug 164761 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "[AI] built service trust/rating system" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=164761 [14:02] <Beineri> mjung: any news/progress? :-) [14:03] <mjung> Yes. I started working on an implementation to [14:03] <mjung> run first tests on the presented user ratings and to support the decision which [14:03] <mjung> algorithms i will later use to compute the values for requests/packages and repos [14:04] <Beineri> mjung: ok, please keep us/the AI up-to-date :-) [14:04] <mjung> I will update the wiki page during the next days. [14:05] <mjung> The video of the presentation will be available soon. [14:05] <cwh> moin [14:05] <Beineri> bug 223290 [14:05] <bugbot> openSUSE bug 223290 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "[AI] better wishlist handling using FATE" [Normal,Assigned] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223290 [14:05] <Beineri> cwh: any news? :-) [14:05] <AJaeger> Beineri: This is now with Michl and myself [14:06] <adrianS> We have a basic installation to follow existing features [14:06] <Beineri> AJaeger: what are you two doing? :-) [14:06] <adrianS> we lack on support to create new features [14:06] <AJaeger> We need to define how features will be added... [14:06] <AJaeger> Beineri: Far too much ;) [14:06] <Beineri> AJaeger: just stick to the topic ;-) [14:07] <cwh> adrianS: actually it supports creating new features - but it is not yet activated [14:07] <adrianS> right ;) [14:07] <Beineri> Comment #23 states that "we have features.opensuse.org up and running. " [14:07] <cwh> which is right [14:07] <Beineri> So anyone can follow the first features besides the opensuse-features mailing list there [14:08] <Beineri> and comment already too? [14:08] <adrianS> if they are flagged as openSUSE.org features, yes [14:08] <adrianS> commenting works as well [14:08] <Beineri> adrianS: other features are not visible at all :-) [14:08] <Beineri> so this sounds like good progress [14:09] * dirk suggests that the AI is done and close it [14:09] <Beineri> or reassign to AJ :-) [14:09] <adrianS> right, so one might need to ask people to flag it as openSUSE.org feature in bugzilla [14:09] <FunkyPenguin_mob> is there going to be an announcement about features.o.o? [14:09] <adrianS> if the bug got closed saying it is in Fate #xxx, but this one is not accessible [14:09] <Beineri> AJaeger: ok, you had time to object! ;-) [14:09] <Beineri> bug 397053 [14:09] <bugbot> openSUSE bug 397053 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "[AI] Screencast about the collaboration features of the BS" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=397053 [14:09] <adrianS> FunkyPenguin_mob: we wait for the feature adding for this [14:10] <Beineri> says "ETA Week 26" :-) [14:10] <FunkyPenguin_mob> ok [14:10] <Beineri> localhorst is not here anyway [14:10] <Beineri> bug 293726 [14:11] <bugbot> openSUSE bug 293726 in openSUSE.org (wiki) "[AI] Creation of Babel wiki" [Enhancement,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=293726 [14:11] <Beineri> Whiteboard says "Blocked (No time)" [14:11] * Beineri guesses this will stay true until after LWE's openSUSE day at least [14:11] <Beineri> bug 238355 [14:11] <bugbot> openSUSE bug 238355 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "[AI] status of cn wiki" [Normal,Needinfo] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=238355 [14:11] <Beineri> is "blocked by MediaWiki update" [14:12] <Beineri> also localhorst's AI [14:12] <Beineri> so, second topic: Status Mails [14:12] <Beineri> you can find the sent status mails linked on http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/Current [14:12] <Beineri> are there any questions to the non existing and not-linked status mails? 8) [14:12] <Beineri> or the linked ones [14:13] * Beineri looks around [14:14] <Beineri> adrianS: build service will be back tomorrow? [14:14] <adrianS> Beineri: yes [14:14] <lejo> imo it would be nice if there is a status page somewhere about the .opensuse.org infrastructure? Or does it exist somewhere? [14:16] <Beineri> https://users.opensuse.org/ displays kind of a status... :-D [14:16] <Beineri> (or build.o.o that is) [14:16] <Beineri> adrianS: any comment? [14:16] <adrianS> I can update the page ... [14:17] <lejo> hmm well, just a simple page with all public services listed (maybe a red or green led) and perhaps also future announcements... [14:18] * Beineri sees huge interest to have it ;-) [14:19] <Beineri> ok, so let's go to next topic... [14:19] <Beineri> ... which is actually one not on the agenda: "Marketing" (as there is no seperate meeting about it) [14:19] <Beineri> mjung wanted to say something about Froscon :-) [14:20] <jbrockmeier> Beineri: we'll have a marketing meeting scheduled soon... [14:20] <mjung> As aleady posted in the forum (which was not that easy) and on my blog+planet, I will try to get [14:20] * FunkyPenguin_mob was busy speaking to a very pretty PM, but would also like to see a status.opensuse.org [14:20] <mjung> a community-driven booth for FrOSCon (http://www.froscon.org). [14:20] * yaloki too (status.o.o) [14:20] <Beineri> jbrockmeier: I hope you don't mind a short coverage today? :-) [14:21] <jbrockmeier> Beineri: no, not at all [14:21] <Beineri> mjung: any link to forum/blog/... ? [14:21] <mjung> Beineri: give me a sec. [14:21] <mjung> http://blog.markojung.net/2008/07/opensuse-froscon-call-for-volunteers/ [14:22] <mjung> http://forums.opensuse.org/general/391295-opensuse-booth-froscon-volunteers-wanted.html [14:22] <mjung> I have set-up a wiki page for coordination: http://de.opensuse.org/Events/FrOSCon/2008 [14:22] <yaloki> mjung: the appropriate place, IMHO, would have been opensuse-marketing@ ;D [14:22] <Beineri> so that's 23th to 24th August [14:22] <mjung> yaloki: I also posted it there. [14:22] <yaloki> ok ok :) [14:23] <Beineri> so everyone interested please contact mjung and ensure that we will have a booth there :-) [14:23] <mjung> I hope we can find enough volunteers to get the booth staffed. [14:23] <yaloki> mjung: IIRC you already have a confirmation for a booth, right ? [14:24] <mjung> yaloki: sure, i know the organizers, but they said they do not wish to see only Novell employees at the booth. [14:24] <yaloki> np, I'll be there [14:24] <mjung> Please spread the word so that we have at least 3 people per day there. [14:24] <FunkyPenguin_mob> any chance Novell could pay my fare? if so then i'll be there ;) [14:25] <Beineri> fine, already next week is LWE SF. I guess jbrockmeier also wouldn't mind more volunteers at the booth? :-) [14:25] <FunkyPenguin_mob> Beineri: same goes for LWE for me :) [14:25] <FunkyPenguin_mob> jbrockmeier: is now a good time to mention the blip.tv thing? [14:25] <jbrockmeier> No, I have a few volunteers, and we have several folks that are attending LWE already that can help, assuming Lufthansa actually flies them to NA [14:26] <jbrockmeier> FunkyPenguin_mob: sure, go right ahead. [14:27] <Beineri> so that should be the next upcoming events (there will be no booth at Akademy) [14:27] <FunkyPenguin_mob> ok, i asked the question on -marketing about setting up a blip.tv channel for opensuse and didn't get too much response so i went ahead [14:27] <Beineri> what is blip.tv? :-) [14:28] <FunkyPenguin_mob> it's a web based video thing kind of like youtube, but better [14:29] <Beineri> FunkyPenguin_mob: do we have any videos/screencasts to host there? [14:29] <FunkyPenguin_mob> my idea on doing it is to give opensuse users/interested parties a place where they can view videos of talks/screencasts/tutorials etc [14:30] <FunkyPenguin_mob> Beineri: there are going to be some screencasts soon from some of the GNOME team, but i was also thinking about videos from events (like FOSDEM/LinuxTAG etc) [14:30] <Beineri> we have http://tube.opensuse.org :-) [14:30] <FunkyPenguin_mob> oh do we? now i didnt know that [14:31] <FunkyPenguin_mob> but does that do streaming? [14:31] <Beineri> no [14:31] <adrianS> well, it does, like any http server [14:31] <adrianS> it does not p2p stuff or alike [14:31] <FunkyPenguin_mob> ah, ok there's one big difference blip.tv does streaming and embeddable video (yes i know it's flash and evil) [14:32] <yaloki> adrianS: not quite [14:32] <yaloki> to stream FLVs you need specific software [14:32] <mjung> Why do we not use all of them? tube.o.o is not this well known like the big video platforms. [14:32] <michl> is streaming that important to us? [14:32] <yaloki> .oO(a video with "how to install MPlayer from the packman repo" on tube.o.o ?) [14:32] <adrianS> but we have simple .ogg files there [14:33] <adrianS> if your client allows streaming from $URL , it just works [14:33] <yaloki> michl: it is in order to provide youtube-alike videos embedded into flash [14:33] <adrianS> and kaffeine, xine and mplayer are supporting this [14:33] <mjung> But if I am looking for a video, i search at Youtube or Google Video and _not_ tube.o.o. [14:33] <yaloki> mjung: indeed [14:33] <yaloki> and, as said above, hosting on o.o has drawbacks (legal) [14:34] <mjung> I think we should publish the ogg-videos at tube and upload them to the big platforms. [14:34] <FunkyPenguin_mob> one other advantage of blip is the ability to subscribe to the channel via RSS/Miro/Banshee/etc [14:34] <yaloki> and why pay for the infrastructure and bandwidth if it can be hosted elsewhere for free [14:34] <yaloki> mjung: yeah, that could be the best option. have the big fat high-quality theora videos on tube and have them as flash embeddable rubbish on youtube or blip or whatnot [14:35] <adrianS> but you will force users to use closed source stuff by this [14:35] <adrianS> and default distro installation will not be able to play it [14:35] <mjung> no, the hardliners can go to tube, the masses use a flash-player ;-) [14:35] <yaloki> adrianS: it's the opposite IMO [14:36] <FunkyPenguin_mob> adrianS: i would say have it as an option, we're not forcing anyone to do anything they don't want [14:36] <yaloki> adrianS: do you really think screencasts will be useful for experts ? [14:36] <FunkyPenguin_mob> well apart from using openSUSE :) [14:36] <adrianS> having it is an option is okay of course [14:36] <yaloki> adrianS: primary target audience are recent converts or people who aren't even using opensuse yet, IMHO [14:36] <yaloki> and I would tend to say that those prefer to use the youtube-style stuff [14:37] <adrianS> sure, but we should also keep in mind that our default distro should be able to play it also [14:37] <yaloki> and we have *cough* gnash anyway ;) [14:37] <FunkyPenguin_mob> as it stands we have http://opensuse.blip.tv but no content [14:37] <yaloki> FunkyPenguin_mob: content is the biggest issue anyway, hosting options are plenty ;) [14:37] <Beineri> yeah, let us talk about content first ;-) [14:38] <mjung> FunkyPenguin_mob: how can we contribute? [14:38] <Beineri> mjung: make a screencast eg [14:38] <FunkyPenguin_mob> well, getting videos of opensuse events (FOSDEM/LWE/etc) screencasts [14:38] <Beineri> there have been threads about starting a screencast project on opensuse-marketing list [14:39] <FunkyPenguin_mob> if it is ok with the powers that be, I would like to start to upload some of the content on tube.o.o [14:39] <Beineri> who is contact for tube.o.o? [14:39] <digitltom> FunkyPenguin: the openSUSE FOSDEM videos are already on google video [14:40] <FunkyPenguin_mob> we can create series (like in the tv sense) [14:40] <digitltom> Beineri: me [14:40] <FunkyPenguin_mob> digitltom: ok, what quality is google like? blip is fairly high quality [14:41] <Beineri> ok, so we now know that several people are interested in getting started something, can we take it to opensuse-marketing list? :-) [14:41] <yaloki> yes please [14:41] <Beineri> okay, so then the last topic!: Q&A [14:41] <FunkyPenguin_mob> digitltom: would you mind if i did a sample with the FOSDEM videos? [14:42] <Beineri> there is one in the wiki, ra100 asks "Which one KDE are you plannig to use by default in 11.1? Or will it be the same as in openSUSE 11.0, both will be optionally on install dvd? Thanks." [14:42] * Beineri pokes dirk :-) [14:42] <yaloki> when is feature freeze for 11.1 ? [14:43] <dirk> I think it hasn't been decided yet [14:43] <dirk> we will ship KDE 4.1.1 at least :) [14:43] <Beineri> yaloki: 15th September with Beta 1 [14:43] <yaloki> ok [14:43] <dirk> yaloki: September 12th [14:43] <jbrockmeier> dirk: do we have a decision on KDE 3.5.x? [14:43] <yaloki> dirk: could this be discussed with the community, e.g. on -project or -factory ? [14:43] <jbrockmeier> whether that will be on the DVD, etc. [14:44] <yaloki> because AFAICR you guys were going for KDE4 only on 11.0 at first [14:44] * Beineri thinks KDE 4.1.x will be default KDE desktop and KDE 3.5.10 maybe included too but not on desktop selection screen. [14:44] <dirk> jbrockmeier: no [14:44] <dirk> jbrockmeier: KDE 3 could be as ftp, buildservice or on dvd only [14:44] <yaloki> Beineri: are you really that confident that KDE 4.1.1 will be stable ? [14:44] <dirk> it could also be available as a livecd, if anyone does it [14:44] * benJIman thinks that it might be too early for that. [14:44] * yaloki too [14:44] <dirk> yaloki: I think the openSUSE KDE status meetings are the best place to discuss it [14:44] <Beineri> benJIman: for what? [14:45] <benJIman> Removing 3.5 from installation options. [14:45] <dirk> yaloki: do you know why it won't be stable? [14:45] <benJIman> 4.1 is nowhere near usable on my desktop either performance or features, even though it's getting more stable. [14:45] <yaloki> dirk: I know your argumentation [14:45] <yaloki> push unstable KDE 4 to users to make it stable by getting bug reports [14:45] <yaloki> and if people keep using KDE 3, bugs will never get fixed [14:46] <benJIman> A lot of openSUSE users will be using nvidia drivers. [14:46] <dirk> thats the truth, unfortunately [14:46] <benJIman> Nvidia drivers + kde4.x = unusable. [14:46] <yaloki> personally, I couldn't disagree more [14:46] <yaloki> only KDE4 = lots of people switching away from openSUSE [14:46] <Beineri> nah, maybe not updating to 11.1 [14:46] <yaloki> that, unfortunately, is a truth as well [14:46] <dirk> yaloki: nobody said that KDE3 will not be an offer [14:47] <yaloki> 14:44:36 < dirk> jbrockmeier: KDE 3 could be as ftp, buildservice or on dvd only [14:47] <cb400f> kubuntu will ship both.. mandriva will have kde3 in some contrib repo with kde4 being default.. fedora have of course gone kde4 only [14:47] <yaloki> 14:44:15 * Beineri thinks KDE 4.1.x will be default KDE desktop and KDE 3.5.10 maybe included too but not on desktop selection screen. [14:47] <dirk> yaloki: but do you think that people switch away from opensuse if they have to use KDE:KDE3 (for example)? [14:47] <yaloki> dirk: not having it on the DVD might indeed be a major issue [14:47] <Beineri> or select a pattern during installation? [14:47] <dirk> yaloki: is it a major issue not being available on dvd if there is a KDE3 live cd? [14:48] <yaloki> dirk: anyhow, my point is just that I would really appreciate you guys discussing this publicly on a mailing-list before it's decided internally [14:48] <michl> will do [14:48] <yaloki> great, then I'm happy :) [14:48] <dirk> yaloki: its discussed in the openSUSE KDE community irc meetings [14:48] <lejo> next ;) [14:48] <Beineri> michl: want to have an AI for that? ;-) [14:48] <benJIman> Do you think that less than 50% of the openSUSE total userbase is now using KDE 3.x? [14:48] <dirk> yaloki: 2-3 times :) [14:48] <dirk> yaloki: feel invited to join the discussion [14:48] <yaloki> dirk: that's not a mailing-list ;) [14:48] <jbrockmeier> dirk: might be good to open it up beyond IRC [14:49] <jbrockmeier> dirk: give time-zone and job-challenged folks an opportunity to comment :-) [14:49] <yaloki> dirk: from what I can remember, or at least what I noticed, the decision for 11.0 was first to only include KDE4, or at least not have KDE3 as an option during the installation [14:49] <yaloki> dirk: it was only quite late in the process that some people did notice it and started a thread about it, which finally gave us KDE3 in the install screen [14:49] <Beineri> AI michl: have product manager discuss KDE 3.5.x inclusion [14:50] <yaloki> dirk: I would just like to make sure that this time it will be discussed openly and early enough ;) [14:50] <Beineri> yaloki: iirc we never said that KDE3 would not be included in 11.0 [14:50] <dirk> yaloki: while I think the discussion is necessary and useful,I think it shouldn't happen during an opensuse-project meeting [14:50] <yaloki> Beineri: yeah, could have been "just" not to have it in the install screen [14:50] <yaloki> dirk: agreed [14:50] <yaloki> next :) [14:50] <Beineri> so michl has the AI and to move ;-) [14:50] <Beineri> any other question? [14:51] <yaloki> seems not [14:52] <Beineri> then let's end [14:52] <Beineri> The next project meeting will be in two weeks. Same channel but this time at 16:00 GMT!!! [14:52] <Beineri> Thank you all for participating. Good afternoon and good luck!