Meetings/Project Meeting 2008-02-20/transcript

13:03 @<henne> Welcome to the openSUSE Project Meeting! 13:03 @<henne> This meeting is meant to discuss the latest developments in and around openSUSE. 13:03 @<henne> The agenda for this meeting is: 13:03 @<henne> 0. Old Action Items 13:03 @<henne> 1. Status Questions 13:03 @<henne> 2. Q & A 13:03 @<henne> first topic. old action items 13:04 @<henne> you can find a list of them here: http://tinyurl.com/2pr9qs 13:04 @<henne> Bug #164761 13:04 <bugbot> openSUSE bug 164761 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "[AI] built service trust/rating system" [Normal,Assigned] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=164761 13:04 @<henne> as rupert is gone who is going to take over adrianS? 13:05 <Beineri> michl should know... 13:06 @<henne> semms adrianS isnt there 13:06 <michl> I know that rupert is gone :-) 13:06 <michl> and guess Adian takes this task over agian 13:06 * adrianS is here 13:06 <adrianS> yes, we look for a person who can work dedicated on this soon 13:07 @<henne> means hire someone? 13:07 <adrianS> something like this .... 13:07 @<henne> okay 13:07 <adrianS> however, no progress for now, but hopefully good progress will happen this year 13:07 @<henne> would you mind updating the AI? 13:07 <adrianS> k 13:08 @<henne> Bug #223290 13:08 <bugbot> openSUSE bug 223290 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "[AI] better wishlist handling using FATE" [Normal,Assigned] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223290 13:08 @<henne> is there any progress? 13:09 <adrianS> we will have a meeting next week how to setup this together with IS&T 13:09 @<henne> okay 13:09 @<henne> Bug #238355 13:09 <bugbot> openSUSE bug 238355 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "[AI] status of cn wiki" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=238355 13:09 @<henne> notlocalhorst: is that darn thing working anytime soon? :) 13:09 <gerberb> This is openFATE right? 13:10 <notlocalhorst> as i said yesterday, everything on hold until we have the updated wiki 13:10 <notlocalhorst> in the status mail 13:10 @<henne> gerberb: yes 13:11 @<henne> notlocalhorst: so Bug #293726 too? 13:11 <bugbot> openSUSE bug 293726 in openSUSE.org (wiki) "[AI] Creation of Babel wiki" [Enhancement,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=293726 13:11 <notlocalhorst> yes 13:11 @<henne> k 13:12 @<henne> and i guess Bug #343444 is still blocked too 13:12 <bugbot> openSUSE bug 343444 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "[AI] bugzilla wizard to qualify bugreports" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=343444 13:12 * henne tries to reach sonja 13:13 @<henne> Bug #352722 13:13 <bugbot> openSUSE bug 352722 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "[AI] women.opensuse.org - get more women involved in openSUSE" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=352722 13:13 <Beineri> henne: AI track down uberChick? she is present :-) 13:13 @<henne> hm looks like she is not around 13:14 <[daemon]> prübably sleeping 13:14 @<henne> okay so next topic 13:14 @<henne> Status questions 13:15 <coolo> status for distribution btw is: "hackweek destroyed everything" 13:15 @<henne> you can find the status mails linked from the meeting page 13:15 @<henne> any questions regarding those? 13:16 * apokryphos hears the deafening silence 13:16 @<henne> okay 13:16 @<henne> then third topic :() 13:17 @<henne> Q&A 13:17 @<henne> as there are no questions from the wiki 13:17 <Beineri> nothing happened with http://en.opensuse.org/Code_of_Conduct page or discussion on opensuse-project since last meeting? 13:17 @<henne> feel free to ask general questions now :) 13:17 <apokryphos> darix: ping 13:17 <yaloki> Beineri: no 13:17 @<henne> why? 13:17 <yaloki> Beineri: status is still revoked, to be discussed 13:18 * Beineri somehow thought what we came up during the meeting should be asked for feedback on the list 13:18 <yaloki> busyness factor 13:18 * gerberb wonders if having this meeting this early is really helping? 13:18 * cb400f thought having meetings this early was to avoid American interference :-) 13:18 * benJIman prefers it early. 13:19 <jbrockmeier> cb400f: well, if that's the goal, it's failed. :-) 13:19 * dirk doesn't like discussions before breakfast 13:19 * gerberb It seems to, as it is about 5:00 AM 13:19 <yaloki> 1320 here 13:19 @<henne> guys 13:19 @<henne> i asked this last week and we decided its usefull 13:20 @<henne> so about the CoC 13:20 <benJIman> Probably best to alternate times though. 13:20 <jbrockmeier> benJIman: yes -- it should rotate so that's it not inconvenient for the same people all of the time. 13:20 * Beineri could also mark the wiki page for deletion if Federico has no interest anymore ;-) 13:21 <gerberb> CoC could possibly work... 13:21 <yaloki> IMO we don't need it 13:21 <apokryphos> me and darix wanted to raise the cloak issue to hopefully resolve it now, but he doesn't seem to be around :/ 13:21 <yaloki> hence it's definitely to be discussed 13:21 <yaloki> the last status we agreed on is that the CoC would just be a summary of the Guidelines 13:21 @<henne> ARGH 13:21 <apokryphos> ah, still on CoC; /me waits 13:21 <yaloki> everyone present at the IRC meeting where it was discussed agreed with that 13:22 @<henne> we all agreed on the changes federico presented 13:22 <yaloki> right 13:22 @<henne> seen on the :talk page 13:22 <yaloki> that's also the current status on the wiki, but still tagged as proposal atm, IIRC 13:22 <Beineri> and has lots of FIXMEs 13:23 <yaloki> so we're just going to have a go on -project with it and then finalize it, whatever the result shall be ;) 13:23 @<henne> riight 13:23 @<henne> someone, preferable federico, needs to pick up the thread on -project 13:23 <yaloki> can't tell you an ETA right now, we're quite busy and the highest priority atm is "membership" 13:23 @<henne> any other takers for this "task"? 13:24 <Beineri> yaloki: that's about accepting more members, or something other (clarification of intention/naming)? 13:24 <yaloki> Beineri: accepting members 13:24 <apokryphos> requests are starting to quieten down now though 13:25 <Beineri> did something happen in the last board meeting btw? 13:25 <yaloki> Beineri: as of clarification and such, I think I've given plenty of background on the mailing-list -- we should certainly compile/summarize that on the wiki 13:25 <yaloki> Beineri: last board meeting was voting/accepting members 13:25 <apokryphos> Andreas will be sending some things from our last meeting to the list soon 13:26 <yaloki> Beineri: but as of clarification of the naming, I still haven't seen a productive counter-proposal (e.g. on -project) so.. sounds like we're going to stick with "member" atm 13:27 <apokryphos> (on decision making, meetings) 13:27 <yaloki> any other questions regarding CoC or membership ? 13:27 @<henne> okay then we need an AI for federico 13:27 @<henne> AI federico: pick up CoC thread on opensuse-project and present the new proposal 13:27 <yaloki> henne: yes, that would be a good idea 13:28 @<henne> where is cboltz if you need him... 13:28 <yaloki> ;) 13:28 * Beineri is sure he will read the log 13:29 @<henne> okay any other general questions? 13:29 <apokryphos> darix isn't here, but I can raise it anyway. I have a new proposal for cloaks (kind of half-way solution which I think is very good): 13:29 <Beineri> last time to ask questins about FOSDEM 2008 attendance :-) 13:29 <yaloki> Beineri: between 4000 and 5500 IMO 13:29 <yaloki> ;P 13:30 <apokryphos> allow users to have @opensuse/contributor or developer/ translator/ supporter/, but keep @opensuse/username as a standard one which people can choose to have 13:30 <apokryphos> I like it because it doesn't throw away 'specialisation' if people want to have it, but it also doesn't force people into one group when they might contribute to many 13:30 <Beineri> apokryphos: why not have the shorter cloak for members? :-) 13:31 <yaloki> or @opensuse/member/username 13:31 <Beineri> @opensuse/name for members and @opensuse/user/name for people in users directory 13:31 <apokryphos> Beineri: all cloaks except @opensuse/user/ would be for members under this proposal 13:31 <apokryphos> I like either, but darix is very against one cloak (or an @opensuse/username cloak at all), so I thought of this half-way 13:32 <benJIman> @opensuse/member/username allows for introducing more categories perhaps. 13:32 <fnmueller> benJIman, I support that idea 13:32 <darix> hm 13:32 <apokryphos> I don't like @o/member because Ubuntu have it everywhere ;-) 13:32 <apokryphos> darix: aha 13:32 <darix> apokryphos: and why should we care about ubuntu? 13:33 <darix> not doing something just because ubuntu does it that way is stupid. 13:33 <apokryphos> ...but I also prefer the simpler @opensuse/username 13:33 <darix> and a very weak argument 13:33 <apokryphos> darix: it's not the only reason 13:33 <darix> apokryphos: other big distro projects use categories aswell. 13:34 <apokryphos> but I'm not *very* against the idea; definitely very against only developer/ translator/ etc 13:34 * yaloki votes for @opensuse/member/username and possibly @opensuse/user/username 13:34 <darix> how about 3 categories for now 13:34 <apokryphos> benJIman: what do you mean? 13:34 <yaloki> not sure about specialized categories, they're typically not that easy to determine 13:34 <darix> opensuse/(user|member|developer|board)/<username> 13:34 <darix> so 4 actually 13:35 <yaloki> most people contribute to several "categories", not just one so.. I wonder how many people will easily match a single category cloak 13:35 <apokryphos> members can be developers 13:35 <fnmueller> yaloki, @opensuse/user/username would come out as @opensuse/fnmueller/fnmueller for me (and that is a waste of space) 13:35 <darix> maybe add supporter later for people doing support mainly. 13:35 <yaloki> fnmueller: no, @opensuse/user/fnmueller 13:35 <gerberb> is developer reserved for internal Novell? 13:35 <apokryphos> gerberb: no 13:35 <yaloki> fnmueller: literal "user", not $user ;) 13:35 <fnmueller> ahh, I thought wikiuser 13:35 <darix> gerberb: who ever brought up that idea should be really shot. 13:36 <darix> there should really be no difference between novell employee or not 13:36 @<henne> so anyone against opensuse/(user|member|developer|board)/<username> ? 13:36 <cb400f> what happened to translator? 13:36 @<henne> they all got shot 13:36 <darix> developer includes translators, testers 13:36 <cb400f> .. or maybe others.. /artist .. or whatever? 13:36 <Beineri> henne: how would one qualify for developer? who would judge? 13:36 @<henne> oh we missed you :P 13:36 <darix> artists too 13:37 <apokryphos> so member/ becomes the standard cloak? 13:37 @<henne> Beineri: how would i know? :) 13:37 <apokryphos> *shrug* 13:37 <fnmueller> apokryphos, in fact, anyone with OBS access is a developer 13:37 <apokryphos> fnmueller: but we only want openSUSE members really to have cloaks... 13:38 <darix> Beineri: the board does. 13:38 <apokryphos> in which case it's slightly confusing that members have non-member/ cloaks 13:38 <darix> for the moment 13:38 <apokryphos> (if one exists) 13:38 @<henne> dont we make this a little bit too complicated? :) 13:38 @<henne> its irc cloaks and not rocket science... 13:38 <fnmueller> apokryphos, so it is opensuse/(user|member|translator|board)/<username> 13:38 <yaloki> agreed, to complex 13:38 <darix> henne: what makes it too complicated in your eyes? 13:38 * Beineri thinks just (user|member|board) should be fine 13:38 <yaloki> *too even 13:38 <yaloki> Beineri: +1 13:38 * gerberb I agree about were making this to complicated 13:39 <Beineri> (dunno why we need board though ;-) 13:39 <apokryphos> we don't 13:39 <yaloki> yeah, board isn't needed 13:39 @<henne> darix: that i need to follow a 6 folded argument to understand the cloaks :) 13:39 <yaloki> user|member 13:39 <apokryphos> I'd prefer not to have it in that scenario 13:40 <darix> henne: actually what really bothers me is that we again try to reinvent the wheel instead of using something that seems to be proven to work for other distros 13:40 <apokryphos> I still definitely prefer @opensuser/username and opensuse/(developer|translator|supporter|user)/username 13:40 <darix> but of course we have to use something different 13:40 <yaloki> cmon folks, our logo isn't a swirl, let's do something straightforward and easy to apply ;) 13:40 <apokryphos> darix: other projects have it both ways 13:41 <darix> apokryphos: i only know kde for project/username 13:41 * fnmueller personally wishes for user|member|expert so new IRC users can distunguish between new helpers and known to be good ones (but than again, they might never check the cloak) 13:41 <apokryphos> darix: so you prefer user|member? 13:41 <yaloki> the cloak is only really useful when you go to non-opensuse rooms IMO 13:42 <apokryphos> mostly 13:43 <darix> yaloki: really? i think it is also important for people looking in opensuse channels 13:43 @<henne> whatever 13:43 <benJIman> Most people won't even see them. 13:43 <darix> e.g. when you want to discuss a bug you dont want to discuss this with a random user but look for devs. 13:43 @<henne> we want to decide on a cloak layout 13:43 @<henne> not discuss about the use of them 13:43 <benJIman> Unless you start whoising everyone in the channel. 13:44 <darix> benJIman: /who #channelname 13:44 * cb400f registers his vote for user|member .. member being a common denominator for dev/trans/supporter/board 13:44 <benJIman> darix: Spammy 13:44 <apokryphos> not my favourite idea but I don't really object 13:44 @<henne> so anyone against user|member? 13:45 @<henne> good. looks like we do it this way then :) 13:45 @<henne> anything else? 13:45 <Beineri> so when can we get cloaks? :-) 13:45 * apokryphos prepares a list of irc nicks for darix ;-) 13:46 <darix> i would add some 3rd option for people actively working on improving the product/infrastructure. 13:46 @<henne> Beineri: you never. you have to prove that you do anything remotely usefull, which you will never succeed in 13:46 <darix> Beineri: you got one already 13:46 <apokryphos> Beineri: asap 13:46 <cb400f> darix: don't all members do that by definition? 13:46 <Beineri> darix: mhm, so how do I switch between kde and opensuse cloak? :-) 13:47 <darix> Beineri: with bothering some freenode staffmember for each change 13:47 @<henne> yes. no need for a third category 13:47 <darix> and i bet after the 5th change you get your cloak removed. 13:47 @<henne> imho 13:47 <apokryphos> Beineri: you can have: @kde/opensuse.member.binner 13:48 @<henne> darix: anything else? 13:48 <darix> while i really appreciate people doing support for opensuse and helping other users, i do that aswell everyday, i still value active contribution as in patches/packages/translations

              still higher.

13:48 <apokryphos> I don't think we have to be very concerned about ranking users 13:49 <jbrockmeier> darix: providing support is just as important as patches, etc. 13:49 <apokryphos> if they're helping, then they're helping 8) 13:49 <jbrockmeier> darix: putting one above the other just devalues the efforts of supporters who aren't developers and discourages people. 13:50 @<henne> yes this is the general result of all these discussions 13:50 <darix> jbrockmeier: my proposal above had a category for each of them and would have put them on the same level 13:50 <gerberb> +1 13:50 <jbrockmeier> darix: "i still value active contribution as in patches/packages/translations still higher" 13:50 <jbrockmeier> providing support is active contribution 13:51 <darix> so lets stick to user|member for now so we can get something done. 13:51 @<henne> yes please 13:51 <Beineri> !s/for now/ 13:51 <Beineri> !s/for now// 13:51 <SUSEhelp> Beineri thinks darix meant: so lets stick to user|member so we can get something done. 13:52 <darix> Beineri: i bet the topic will come back to us. 13:52 <darix> sooner or later 13:52 * Beineri hopes later 13:52 @<henne> it might. we decide now on user|member 13:52 @<henne> anything else we need to talk about? 13:53 <cb400f> will kde4 be ready for 11.0? :-) 13:53 <darix> cb400f: most likely not? 13:53 <Beineri> cb400f: wrong meeting week, next week again ;-) 13:53 @<henne> yepp 13:53 <cb400f> hehe.. just joking 13:54 <darix> cb400f: i was told 4.1 might be usable and that is scheduled for in 6 months. 13:54 @<henne> objection. heresay 13:54 @<henne> so no other topic? 13:55 <Beineri> meeting *time* of next meeting? :-) 13:55 @<henne> why? do we turn of DST? 13:55 <Beineri> evening? early or late? 13:55 * gerberb hopes for a later time 13:56 <gerberb> too early for us in the US. 13:56 @<henne> its 18:00 GMT 13:56 @<henne> whatever that is in your timezone :) 13:56 <gerberb> about 10 or 11 which is better 13:57 @<henne> what are we talking about now? 13:57 <apokryphos> darix: sent you the list to forward to the staffer 13:58 @<henne> alrighty 13:58 <gerberb> post meeting times in GMT 13:58 @<henne> Okay that was it then. If you have more, dont hesitate to bring it up on the appropriate mailinglist. 13:58 * apokryphos out 13:58 @<henne> The next project meeting will be at the 5th of March. Same channel but this time at 18:00 GMT!!! 13:58 @<henne> The next meeting is the KDE meeting at the 27th at 19:00 GMT in #opensuse-kde. 13:58 @<henne> Thank you all for participating. Good night and good luck!