GNOME/Meetings/20080911/transcript

From openSUSE

Sep 11 12:07:32 *	mw has changed the topic to:  http://en.openuse.org/GNOME | Meeting: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/Current
Sep 11 12:08:51 <mw>	Ok, welcome everybody to this week's opensuse-gnome meeting
Sep 11 12:09:27 *	suseROCKs thinks meetings need special effects so we can hear crowd roarings and such
Sep 11 12:09:30 <mw>	Since as usual I have no introductory comments, let's get started with suseROCKs' Helping Hands update
Sep 11 12:09:37 *	mw has changed the topic to:  http://en.openuse.org/GNOME | Meeting: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/Current : Helping Hands update (suseROCKs)
Sep 11 12:09:49 *	suseROCKs raises eyebrow
Sep 11 12:10:07 <suseROCKs>	I thought we discussed last week that HH is now moved into the purview of Marketing team...
Sep 11 12:10:25 <mw>	yeah, we did
Sep 11 12:10:44 <mw>	it's on the agenda; shall we nix it?
Sep 11 12:10:54 <suseROCKs>	aww you guys just wanted me on stage so you could see a thing of beauty  :-)
Sep 11 12:11:00 <suseROCKs>	yeah
Sep 11 12:11:09 <abharath>	hehe
Sep 11 12:11:29 <mw>	ok, so
Sep 11 12:11:29 <suseROCKs>	ooh abharath is here.  We should have an evo topic somewhere...
Sep 11 12:11:40 *	mw has changed the topic to:  http://en.openuse.org/GNOME | Meeting: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/Current : Listing apps on the wiki (suseROCKs)
Sep 11 12:11:56 *	suseROCKs oofs...
Sep 11 12:12:28 <suseROCKs>	hobbsc is going to spearhead the wiki reogranizatoin effort and we'll insert the listing apps page in there.   He's been tied up this week though
Sep 11 12:12:38 <hobbsc>	that's an understatement
Sep 11 12:12:45 <hobbsc>	i've not really had any internet access, either
Sep 11 12:12:55 <hobbsc>	i'm having some demo done on my house, so no power/internet access
Sep 11 12:12:57 <hobbsc>	etc.
Sep 11 12:13:08 <hobbsc>	should be done soonish
Sep 11 12:13:12 <suseROCKs>	Fiance disconnect your internet cuz you didn't work enough around the house?
Sep 11 12:13:15 <hobbsc>	(in a few days)
Sep 11 12:13:21 <rodrigo_>	:)
Sep 11 12:13:24 <hobbsc>	ha
Sep 11 12:13:34 <hobbsc>	no, moron earth movers cut my cable line
Sep 11 12:13:36 <hobbsc>	zoom
Sep 11 12:13:48 <jpr>	the GNOME wiki or the opensuse wiki as a whole?
Sep 11 12:13:53 <decriptor>	hobbsc: what people like that never do things like that
Sep 11 12:13:54 <suseROCKs>	hobbsc:   I was talking to ademmer who is co-designer of the new openSUSE home page coming soon
Sep 11 12:13:55 <hobbsc>	GNOME was what i was going for
Sep 11 12:14:06 <jpr>	cool
Sep 11 12:14:14 <suseROCKs>	And next step they're going to address wiki cleanup.   I told him about your efforts and will hook you two up to coordinate
Sep 11 12:14:15 <jpr>	are there notes on the layou?
Sep 11 12:14:22 <jpr>	there were notes on the intiial
Sep 11 12:14:23 <jpr>	layout
Sep 11 12:14:24 <hobbsc>	suseROCKs: roger that
Sep 11 12:14:26 <jpr>	in the wiki
Sep 11 12:14:36 <hobbsc>	jpr: i was just going to make a request for ideas
Sep 11 12:14:47 <hobbsc>	what would make it easier to navigate
Sep 11 12:15:07 <hobbsc>	decriptor: heh, touche
Sep 11 12:15:31 <suseROCKs>	There has to be some actual support stuff on the main /GNOME page.  Right now it's all "come join us, be a part of us, participate with us" stuff
Sep 11 12:15:50 <decriptor>	hobbsc: used to work for a telcomm
Sep 11 12:16:04 <hobbsc>	decriptor: i don't envy you
Sep 11 12:16:17 <decriptor>	*used to*  :)
Sep 11 12:16:21 <hobbsc>	heh
Sep 11 12:16:26 <decriptor>	since then the twitches have gone
Sep 11 12:16:38 <hobbsc>	jpr: anyway, the whole thought was that the gnome wiki was difficult to navigate from a support perspective
Sep 11 12:16:47 <hobbsc>	i volunteered to post an email requesting ideas
Sep 11 12:16:48 *	suseROCKs sees decriptor as a 1950's telephone operator with bubble-gum hair pushing/pulling plugs and gossiping all day long
Sep 11 12:16:58 <hobbsc>	and then perhaps hold a "bug day" style event to clean it up
Sep 11 12:17:43 <decriptor>	we should hired a full time tech writer for the wiki
Sep 11 12:17:44 <decriptor>	only
Sep 11 12:17:53 <hobbsc>	not a bad idea
Sep 11 12:17:59 <mw>	yeah, i'd like to see that too
Sep 11 12:18:09 <hobbsc>	that would certainly streamline things
Sep 11 12:18:20 <decriptor>	but not tell anyone that he exists so that he can focus on that
Sep 11 12:18:33 <decriptor>	I hate our wiki, its not that great to use
Sep 11 12:18:47 <hobbsc>	ha, not tell the community about a maintainer?
Sep 11 12:18:55 <decriptor>	no
Sep 11 12:19:03 <decriptor>	don't tell anyone inside of novell :P
Sep 11 12:19:03 <hobbsc>	well, is that something i should bring up in the email/meeting?
Sep 11 12:19:18 <hobbsc>	"we're looking for someone to commit to keeping track of the wiki"?
Sep 11 12:19:21 <mw>	hobbsc: anyway, you think you'll be able to get to work on it within a few days?
Sep 11 12:19:37 <hobbsc>	mw: as soon as my cable is back up, that's looking like Monday
Sep 11 12:19:44 <mw>	hobbsc: ok
Sep 11 12:19:46 <suseROCKs>	I rather consider hobbsc  as the /GNOME maintainer
Sep 11 12:19:47 <hobbsc>	unless i can cobble something together on a lunch break here at the office
Sep 11 12:19:59 <hobbsc>	suseROCKs: ha, i didn't sign up for that :)
Sep 11 12:20:09 <decriptor>	too late
Sep 11 12:20:12 <decriptor>	mahahahaha
Sep 11 12:20:14 <hobbsc>	ha
Sep 11 12:20:22 <mw>	suseROCKs: anything else to bring up before moving on?
Sep 11 12:20:50 <suseROCKs>	I don't think it would be that difficult to maintain...   everyone still writes to the wiki.  Just have one person overview to make sure everything is consistent
Sep 11 12:21:08 <suseROCKs>	That's pretty much it mw.  It rather became hobbsc's topic  :-)
Sep 11 12:21:26 <mw>	suseROCKs: ok.  we should make next week's agenda reflect that :)
Sep 11 12:21:35 *	suseROCKs suddenly feels efficient having cut out one topic and hot-potatoed another topic
Sep 11 12:21:37 <hobbsc>	well, i would honestly volunteer to maintain it, but i'm going to be ridiculously busy in the next few months
Sep 11 12:21:41 <hobbsc>	(getting married and all)
Sep 11 12:21:51 *	mw has changed the topic to:  http://en.openuse.org/GNOME | Meeting: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/Current : 11.0 updates review : gvfs, puseaudio, and telepathy and empathy
Sep 11 12:21:51 <hobbsc>	at least the first two weeks in november, i'll be swamped
Sep 11 12:22:00 <hobbsc>	otherwise, i can step up
Sep 11 12:22:08 <jpr>	november is a good time
Sep 11 12:22:09 <rodrigo_>	yes, it's probably good to have 2 people
Sep 11 12:22:10 <mw>	hpj: rodrigo_: hub: any pending updates?
Sep 11 12:22:12 <jpr>	just ahead of 11.1
Sep 11 12:22:19 <rodrigo_>	no thing from pulseaudio
Sep 11 12:22:23 <jpr>	ie post wedding
Sep 11 12:22:25 <hub>	mw: not that I remember
Sep 11 12:22:28 <hobbsc>	jpr: i'm getting married november 8th and will be in breckenridge on my honeymoon until the 16th
Sep 11 12:22:36 <mw>	rodrigo_: hub: ok, didn't think so :)
Sep 11 12:22:49 <mw>	i'm going to assume that there are no pending updates for gvfs either
Sep 11 12:22:50 <hub>	hobbsc: congrats
Sep 11 12:22:51 <rodrigo_>	mw: nothing for 11.0
Sep 11 12:22:54 <jpr>	ah
Sep 11 12:22:55 <hobbsc>	hub: thanks
Sep 11 12:23:00 <decriptor>	hobbsc: congrats
Sep 11 12:23:10 <hobbsc>	thanks :)
Sep 11 12:23:21 <mw>	yeah, congratulations :)
Sep 11 12:23:22 *	srag has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
Sep 11 12:23:29 <hobbsc>	thanks again hehe
Sep 11 12:23:33 *	mw has changed the topic to:  http://en.openuse.org/GNOME | Meeting: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/Current : Dropping and adding packages (vuntz)
Sep 11 12:23:36 <mw>	vuntz: !
Sep 11 12:23:37 *	rodrigo_ will congrat hobbsc in november 8th :)
Sep 11 12:23:42 *	srag (n=sragavan@123.237.140.228) has joined #opensuse-gnome
Sep 11 12:23:43 <vuntz>	mw!
Sep 11 12:23:56 <suseROCKs>	hobbsc:    GNOME will go to hell in a handbasket during your absence.  I hope knowing that doesn't affect your performance on your wedding night.
Sep 11 12:24:04 <vuntz>	just want to quickly discuss package drops
Sep 11 12:24:39 <vuntz>	banshee, helix-banshee, evolution-python, tapioca-sharp, telepathy-sharp
Sep 11 12:25:06 <mw>	vuntz: well, the first two are no-brainers in my opinion
Sep 11 12:25:08 <vuntz>	I was also wondering why we have eiciel (could probably be moved in G:C)
Sep 11 12:25:38 <jpr>	eiciel is for SLED
Sep 11 12:25:40 <vuntz>	so, yeah, we reached agreement on banshee & helix-banshee
Sep 11 12:25:42 <jpr>	so veto :-)
Sep 11 12:25:53 <decriptor>	wow, what power
Sep 11 12:25:55 <vuntz>	jpr: you're cheating ;-)
Sep 11 12:26:03 <jpr>	fast-user-switch-applet and resapplet
Sep 11 12:26:07 <jpr>	need dropping I think
Sep 11 12:26:13 <vuntz>	oh, yeah
Sep 11 12:26:24 <jpr>	with proper provides/obsoletes
Sep 11 12:26:39 <jpr>	is gdm and gnome-settings-daemon
Sep 11 12:26:55 <vuntz>	same for evolution-python (with in gnome-python-desktop)
Sep 11 12:27:19 <mw>	in general i would like to see lots of packages dropped from the distro and moved to G:C or similar
Sep 11 12:27:26 <jpr>	or to contrib
Sep 11 12:27:30 <mw>	yeah
Sep 11 12:27:37 <jpr>	we should talk about what to do about contrib next week
Sep 11 12:27:44 <mw>	but for a lot of apps, one update every 6-9 months seems like the wrong model
Sep 11 12:27:56 <vuntz>	ok
Sep 11 12:27:57 <vuntz>	so
Sep 11 12:28:23 <vuntz>	I'll do the stuff for banshee, helix-banshee, evolution-python, tapioca-sharp, telepathy-sharp, fast-user-switch-applet, resapplet
Sep 11 12:28:34 <decriptor>	why telepathy stuff?
Sep 11 12:28:35 <vuntz>	(ie, drop in pdb, and remove from G:F)
Sep 11 12:28:42 <mw>	vuntz: i think federico did the needful for resapplet already
Sep 11 12:28:48 <decriptor>	maybe move them to G:C
Sep 11 12:28:49 <vuntz>	good
Sep 11 12:28:59 <vuntz>	decriptor: sure, we can move them to G:C
Sep 11 12:29:00 <rodrigo_>	yes, I think resapplet should be ok, but double check
Sep 11 12:29:24 <decriptor>	do we have a list of packages that need some help being updated on a regular basis
Sep 11 12:29:39 <decriptor>	I can try and help out in that area (submitting updated packages)
Sep 11 12:29:41 <jpr>	i would like to propose dropping transmission to G:C as well
Sep 11 12:29:43 <vuntz>	decriptor: see next topic :-)
Sep 11 12:29:44 <rodrigo_>	I guess the packages in G:C are a good start
Sep 11 12:29:47 <jpr>	if we are keeping monsoon
Sep 11 12:29:50 <decriptor>	vuntz: :)
Sep 11 12:30:48 <vuntz>	so moving tapioca-sharp, telepathy-sharp to G:C and dropping the rest
Sep 11 12:31:05 <jpr>	and transmission?
Sep 11 12:31:58 <rodrigo_>	if we are keeping monsoon, I'd move it to G:C
Sep 11 12:31:59 <vuntz>	jpr: we can move it out, sure (although I prefer it over monsoon, but that's another topic)
Sep 11 12:32:15 <jpr>	i'm fine either way
Sep 11 12:32:21 <jpr>	just a suggestion really
Sep 11 12:32:24 <vuntz>	decriptor: oh, one reason I wanted to drop tapioca-sharp and telepathy-sharp is that I couldn't find any upstream information about them
Sep 11 12:32:38 *	Riggwelter has quit ("Leaving")
Sep 11 12:32:40 <vuntz>	which makes me wonder if there's some work, or if it's just dead
Sep 11 12:33:00 <decriptor>	vuntz: oh, I can see if I can figure stuff out about it (can you email me a reminder?)
Sep 11 12:33:51 <vuntz>	I tried hard already, but yeah. Mail address?
Sep 11 12:34:04 <jpr>	ajorg might know more
Sep 11 12:34:18 <decriptor>	I'm thinking of gallaxium
Sep 11 12:34:22 <decriptor>	(sp?)
Sep 11 12:34:54 <vuntz>	I'll take a look at the list of modules and see which ones would be good candidates for gnomeicu
Sep 11 12:35:07 <vuntz>	s/gnomeicu/contrib
Sep 11 12:35:08 <decriptor>	galaxium
Sep 11 12:35:09 <vuntz>	heh
Sep 11 12:35:27 <vuntz>	unless somebody else wants to do this?
Sep 11 12:35:48 <ajorg>	which might I know?
Sep 11 12:36:05 <decriptor>	the state of telepathy-sharp
Sep 11 12:36:10 <decriptor>	and tapioca
Sep 11 12:36:19 <ajorg>	nope, don't know
Sep 11 12:36:41 <ajorg>	I thought tapioca was also being obsoleted by empathy though
Sep 11 12:36:50 <decriptor>	that could be
Sep 11 12:37:21 *	glunard1 (n=glunardi@nat/novell/x-37292eaf56b70bae) has joined #opensuse-gnome
Sep 11 12:37:39 <vuntz>	(G:C vs contrib should really be a topic for next meeting)
Sep 11 12:37:46 <jpr>	yes
Sep 11 12:37:49 <mw>	vuntz: indeed; it's not clear what the diff is at all
Sep 11 12:37:52 <suseROCKs>	heyyy  I know glunard1   :-)
Sep 11 12:37:57 <decriptor>	empathy depends on telepathy
Sep 11 12:38:10 <suseROCKs>	probably the only guy in this channel I've ever actually met in person  :-)
Sep 11 12:38:44 <vuntz>	also, do we want to move projecthamster to Factory? Or should it just go to contrib?
Sep 11 12:39:07 <AlbertoP>	suseROCKs, that's why others are not trying to meet you :P
Sep 11 12:39:11 <decriptor>	what is the difference between contrib and community
Sep 11 12:39:11 <decriptor>	?
Sep 11 12:40:20 <vuntz>	it's unclear -- that's why we should discuss it
Sep 11 12:40:23 <mw>	next topic
Sep 11 12:40:26 <rodrigo_>	that's what we need to discuss on next meeting, it's not clear :)
Sep 11 12:40:31 *	mw has changed the topic to:  http://en.openuse.org/GNOME | Meeting: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/Current : The lauded osc gnome plugin (vuntz)
Sep 11 12:40:44 <vuntz>	oh, it's me again
Sep 11 12:40:59 <decriptor>	vuntz: its always you :P
Sep 11 12:41:10 *	suseROCKs retitles GNOME meeting to VUNTZ meeting
Sep 11 12:41:43 <vuntz>	so, as users of 'osc gnome todo' (or of http://tmp.vuntz.net/opensuse-packages/obs.py) noticed, we now have upstream information about lots of modules
Sep 11 12:41:57 <vuntz>	which is quite cool
Sep 11 12:42:20 <vuntz>	if you go to the webpage, you'll still notice a few yellow cells (around 20)
Sep 11 12:42:37 <vuntz>	we need people to find where upstream tarballs for those packages live
Sep 11 12:43:13 <vuntz>	or we accept that we will have to live with yellow cells
Sep 11 12:43:33 <vuntz>	now, we need to be careful
Sep 11 12:43:44 <vuntz>	by default, we have the latest upstream tarball
Sep 11 12:43:55 <vuntz>	which can be a tarball from a development/unstable branch
Sep 11 12:44:02 <suseROCKs>	vuntz:    If I were to take up the task of looking for the upstreams, how would I update this?
Sep 11 12:44:08 <mw>	vuntz: how hard would it be to do some filtering in "osc gnome todo"?  for example, something like "osc gnome todo --group=platform" which would only list gnome platform packages
Sep 11 12:44:33 <vuntz>	mw: not really hard. We just need to define platform
Sep 11 12:44:44 <mw>	vuntz: your package list already does, doesn't it?
Sep 11 12:44:56 <mw>	gnome-opensuse-match.txt
Sep 11 12:44:58 <vuntz>	suseROCKs: send a mail to opensuse-gnome (or use git to get the repo)
Sep 11 12:45:28 <vuntz>	mw: yeah. We can use this
Sep 11 12:45:35 <vuntz>	mw: file a bug :-)
Sep 11 12:46:00 *	suseROCKs decides to do just that...
Sep 11 12:46:35 <vuntz>	example of cases where being careful was important: latest poppler is 0.9.0, but is unstable. Latest gq is 1.3.5 (or something like this) but is unstable
Sep 11 12:47:01 <vuntz>	so I added a mechanism to say "no version higher than 0.9" or "no x.y.z where y is odd"
Sep 11 12:47:31 <ajorg>	where is this osc gnome thing I keep hearing about?
Sep 11 12:47:38 <suseROCKs>	slightly-off-point:  Is this a list of everything that will be in the GNOME pattern?
Sep 11 12:47:41 <vuntz>	the thing is that there's not a lot of such rules right now (5). So we might need more. Hence the need to be careful :-)
Sep 11 12:47:58 <vuntz>	ajorg: git diff http://www.vuntz.net/git/osc-plugins.git/
Sep 11 12:48:04 <vuntz>	s/diff/clone/
Sep 11 12:48:07 <ajorg>	vuntz: thanks
Sep 11 12:48:56 <decriptor>	thanks
Sep 11 12:49:01 <decriptor>	I was wondering the same thing
Sep 11 12:49:08 <vuntz>	also, in other osc gnome news: we have 'osc gnome update' and 'osc gnome setup' now
Sep 11 12:49:14 <jpr>	you will never use anything else :-)
Sep 11 12:49:23 <vuntz>	'osc gnome update' will do most of the magic to update a package to a new version
Sep 11 12:49:31 <decriptor>	?
Sep 11 12:49:35 <vuntz>	it's not complete yet, but at some point, it will download the tarball, edit the .spec, etc.
Sep 11 12:49:37 <suseROCKs>	amazing how vuntz has changed jpr's life so dramatically
Sep 11 12:49:58 <vuntz>	it of course branches the package, checks it out, etc.
Sep 11 12:50:34 <decriptor>	vuntz: so you have a mini tutorial on this right :)
Sep 11 12:50:38 <vuntz>	'osc gnome setup' does the first part of 'osc gnome update' (reserve, branch, check out). It's for cases where you just want to work on a package
Sep 11 12:50:43 <vuntz>	decriptor: not yet
Sep 11 12:50:53 <vuntz>	will write one in the next few days, I guess
Sep 11 12:51:45 <decriptor>	cool
Sep 11 12:51:47 *	suseROCKs gits the osc and sees alot of walking on his screen  :-)
Sep 11 12:51:48 <decriptor>	that'll be nice
Sep 11 12:52:17 <vuntz>	mw: I guess we should move osc-gnome.py with the other plugins, so that it gets packaged?
Sep 11 12:52:29 <rodrigo_>	yes
Sep 11 12:53:29 <vuntz>	that's all from me
Sep 11 12:53:49 <vuntz>	feedback & patches for 'osc gnome' welcome, as usual
Sep 11 12:54:17 <nagappan>	hello all
Sep 11 12:54:29 <mw>	vuntz: my repo (unpushed) just has a symlink
Sep 11 12:54:57 <vuntz>	mw: oh, cool, perfect
Sep 11 12:55:08 <mw>	vuntz: i'd like to clean up some of the plugins i'm doing and call it 0.4.0
Sep 11 12:55:47 <mw>	vuntz: anyway, policy stuff?
Sep 11 12:55:54 *	mw has changed the topic to:  http://en.openuse.org/GNOME | Meeting: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/Current : Policy stuff (vuntz)
Sep 11 12:56:05 <vuntz>	policy: no news, didn't even think about policy in the last week
Sep 11 12:56:18 <vuntz>	not sure if we need to keep the topic
Sep 11 12:56:33 <mw>	ok, we should remove it for next week
Sep 11 12:56:50 *	mw has changed the topic to:  http://en.openuse.org/GNOME | Meeting: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/Current : Feature update : printing (vuntz)
Sep 11 12:56:54 <mw>	vuntz: you're almost done :)
Sep 11 12:57:49 >sbrabec<	ping
Sep 11 12:57:49 *	[sbrabec] is away (Teď tu zrovna nejsem)
Sep 11 12:57:54 <vuntz>	still me?
Sep 11 12:58:03 <mw>	anything new in printing?
Sep 11 12:58:06 <vuntz>	system-config-printer submitted to factory
Sep 11 12:58:19 <vuntz>	it's blocked in autobuild and/or legal
Sep 11 12:58:20 <mw>	woo
Sep 11 12:58:22 <mw>	ok
Sep 11 12:58:28 *	mw has changed the topic to:  http://en.openuse.org/GNOME | Meeting: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/Current : Feature update : pulseaudio (rodrigo)
Sep 11 12:58:31 <vuntz>	I'll drop gnome-cups-manager once it's accepted
Sep 11 12:58:34 <jpr>	vuntz: do we need to drop gnome-cups-manager and update the patterns too?
Sep 11 12:58:53 *	thindil has quit ("Ex-Chat")
Sep 11 12:58:59 <vuntz>	jpr: I told cthiel about the pattern already. But I'll remind him
Sep 11 12:59:17 <vuntz>	just waiting for the package to really reach factory
Sep 11 12:59:57 <rodrigo_>	for pulseaudio, 0.9.12 has just been submitted to G:F
Sep 11 13:00:14 <rodrigo_>	and I have updates for the other PA tools coming in (paprefs, pavu*, etc)
Sep 11 13:00:27 <rodrigo_>	this should fix many of the problems in 0.9.11
Sep 11 13:00:48 <decriptor>	does this mean that audio will work correctly again on linux?
Sep 11 13:00:50 <mw>	rodrigo_: i accepted pa into G:F earlier today and sent it on to o:F
Sep 11 13:00:58 <rodrigo_>	mw: cool :)
Sep 11 13:01:09 <rodrigo_>	decriptor: it will work better :)
Sep 11 13:01:20 <suseROCKs>	I'm kind of against fixing PA
Sep 11 13:01:32 <decriptor>	suseROCKs: you would be
Sep 11 13:01:44 <suseROCKs>	I'ts about the only topic ever brought up in #suse.  Without it, GNOME almost never gets mentioend there.  :-)
Sep 11 13:02:05 <rodrigo_>	well, 11.1 will have a better mecvhanism for enabling and disabling it
Sep 11 13:02:23 <rodrigo_>	but even though I know it causes many headaches to some people, I see it as the future
Sep 11 13:02:49 <rodrigo_>	it supports HD audio and other niceties that we won't be able to live without in a few years :)
Sep 11 13:02:59 *	suseROCKs sees rodrigo_ standing atop a bluff with a long grey beard pointing to the promised land
Sep 11 13:02:59 <rodrigo_>	so yeah, I think we want to fix it
Sep 11 13:03:15 <rodrigo_>	even though, really, it would be easier for me to just drop it and move to other stuff :)
Sep 11 13:03:27 <rodrigo_>	suseROCKs: :-)
Sep 11 13:04:04 <rodrigo_>	the problem really with PA is not really PA itself, it's the "others" sound systems
Sep 11 13:04:17 <rodrigo_>	if everyone used PA, we would be living in a better world :)
Sep 11 13:05:13 <suseROCKs>	Even us Deafies?
Sep 11 13:05:14 <rodrigo_>	anyway, nothing else from me on this
Sep 11 13:05:22 <tambeti>	what's (except flash) does not use it yet?
Sep 11 13:05:40 <rodrigo_>	suseROCKs: yes, we'll add a deaf-enalling plugin soon :)
Sep 11 13:05:46 <tambeti>	well, flash and skype
Sep 11 13:05:55 <rodrigo_>	tambeti: directly nothing uses it, except now GNOME
Sep 11 13:06:08 <suseROCKs>	rodrigo_:   actually, (not kidding) we DO deserpately need that.  OSX has one
Sep 11 13:06:11 <tambeti>	rodrigo_: I thought there were patches for pretty much everything
Sep 11 13:06:16 <rodrigo_>	outside of GNOME, all apps use it but indirectly, though the alsa/oss/etc apis
Sep 11 13:06:19 <tambeti>	rodrigo_: like gstreamer, mplayer, ...
Sep 11 13:06:25 <suseROCKs>	deserpately?!?  wtf..   "Desperately'    ahh better
Sep 11 13:06:59 <rodrigo_>	tambeti: yeah, for some apps, but there are also backends for alsa/oss, so apps that use those continue to work without changes
Sep 11 13:07:12 <rodrigo_>	tambeti: those are the problematic ones
Sep 11 13:07:27 <rodrigo_>	suseROCKs: oh, really? didn't know that, quite interesting indeed
Sep 11 13:07:35 *	Spyhawk (n=Spyhawk@opensuse/member/Spyhawk) has joined #opensuse-gnome
Sep 11 13:08:00 <tambeti>	rodrigo_: reading http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/PerfectSetup , it doesn't look like there are all too many of apps that we care about and don't have patches to use PA directly
Sep 11 13:08:02 <suseROCKs>	rodrigo_:   let's talk after the meeting about it.
Sep 11 13:08:56 <rodrigo_>	tambeti: right, everything in factory should be ok
Sep 11 13:09:24 <rodrigo_>	suseROCKs: after the meeting I'll go out to get some fresh air, so send me mail, please :)
Sep 11 13:09:37 <tambeti>	ok, so we do live in a perfect world :)
Sep 11 13:09:45 <rodrigo_>	suseROCKs: pr poke me later/tomorrow
Sep 11 13:09:58 <rodrigo_>	tambeti: not from user's perspective though :)
Sep 11 13:10:03 <suseROCKs>	ok
Sep 11 13:10:12 <tambeti>	rodrigo_: hmm:
Sep 11 13:10:13 <tambeti>	20:04 < rodrigo_> if everyone used PA, we would be living in a better world :)
Sep 11 13:10:37 <rodrigo_>	tambeti: people install vlc, mplayer and other apps, without the pulse plugins, from packman, etc
Sep 11 13:10:37 <tambeti>	everything in factory does use PA and stuff still doesn't work?
Sep 11 13:10:57 <rodrigo_>	and no, KDE in factory still does'nt use PA
Sep 11 13:11:09 <rodrigo_>	in 11.1 it will probably, so we should be much better
Sep 11 13:11:12 <tambeti>	so we need to get packman to include PA plugins?
Sep 11 13:11:21 <rodrigo_>	yes
Sep 11 13:11:54 <tambeti>	that's easy, let's remove pa-alsa plugin :)
Sep 11 13:12:03 <rodrigo_>	and apps setup to use PA
Sep 11 13:12:14 <rodrigo_>	but as I said, in 11.1 everything will be much better
Sep 11 13:12:24 <decriptor>	promise
Sep 11 13:12:24 <decriptor>	?
Sep 11 13:12:29 <rodrigo_>	yes
Sep 11 13:12:33 *	rodrigo_ crosses fingers
Sep 11 13:12:37 <rodrigo_>	:)
Sep 11 13:12:55 <mw>	ok
Sep 11 13:13:06 *	mw has changed the topic to:  http://en.openuse.org/GNOME | Meeting: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/Current : Feature update : multiscreen (federico1)
Sep 11 13:13:14 <mw>	federico1: anything new in multiscreen land?
Sep 11 13:14:17 <mw>	...
Sep 11 13:14:20 <mw>	apparently not
Sep 11 13:14:33 *	mw has changed the topic to:  http://en.openuse.org/GNOME | Meeting: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/Current : Feature update : gdm (hpj)
Sep 11 13:14:41 <mw>	hpj: anything new and exciting in gdm?
Sep 11 13:14:56 <jpr>	not much
Sep 11 13:14:59 <mw>	(those jalapeños need to pay more attention to the meetings :))
Sep 11 13:15:01 <jpr>	just ensuring it works :-)
Sep 11 13:15:04 <jpr>	can drop that topic
Sep 11 13:15:05 <jpr>	its in
Sep 11 13:15:27 <mw>	jpr: is it safe to update to 2.23.92?
Sep 11 13:16:01 *	ensonic (n=ensonic@pdpc/supporter/active/ensonic) has joined #opensuse-gnome
Sep 11 13:16:08 <suseROCKs>	A Norwegian Jalapeno.  Now I've seen it all...
Sep 11 13:16:37 <jpr>	mw: working on it
Sep 11 13:16:47 <mw>	jpr: oh, you're updating it already?
Sep 11 13:16:52 <jpr>	in general yes, but there are some bugs to fix while doing it
Sep 11 13:16:54 <mw>	ah, indeed
Sep 11 13:16:56 <jpr>	osc gnome lr dude
Sep 11 13:16:57 <mw>	i just noticed that it's resv'd
Sep 11 13:17:12 <mw>	mw@engraver:~ % osc gnome lr dude                                                           [12:16]
Sep 11 13:17:13 *	sbrabec has quit ("Leaving.")
Sep 11 13:17:15 <mw>	Too many arguments.
Sep 11 13:17:18 <mw>	;)
Sep 11 13:17:27 <mw>	ok
Sep 11 13:17:35 *	mw has changed the topic to:  http://en.openuse.org/GNOME | Meeting: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/Current : Feature update : NetworkManager (tambet)
Sep 11 13:17:39 <mw>	tambeti: anything new in nm?
Sep 11 13:17:57 <tambeti>	not much to add. Stuff is mostly ready for the checkin tomorrow
Sep 11 13:18:07 <tambeti>	have been holding back to get more goodies in
Sep 11 13:18:08 <mw>	great
Sep 11 13:18:21 *	mw has changed the topic to:  http://en.openuse.org/GNOME | Meeting: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/Current : Next meeting's agenda (everyone)
Sep 11 13:18:27 <tambeti>	so expect to have scanning-signal-quality-showing NM in the next beta
Sep 11 13:18:40 <jpr>	ooh
Sep 11 13:19:21 <mw>	ok, so this week we skipped right over the following: helping hands update, 11.0 updates, and policy stuff
Sep 11 13:19:28 <mw>	they should go :)
Sep 11 13:19:32 *	suseROCKs thinks he's going to summon tambeti to do a Helping Hands NetWork Manager presentation in the future...
Sep 11 13:19:45 *	pygi (n=mario@catv-89-132-114-153.catv.broadband.hu) has joined #opensuse-gnome
Sep 11 13:19:59 <tambeti>	suseROCKs: if it's needed we've failed somewhere :)
Sep 11 13:20:09 <suseROCKs>	+1 to assign the task to pygi
Sep 11 13:20:13 <decriptor>	tambeti: is the new networkmanager something we can install on 11.0 and test?
Sep 11 13:20:17 <mw>	i'd like to talk next week about starting to use rpm2git and git2rpm, publishing branches, and the like
Sep 11 13:20:28 <pygi>	suseROCKs, hi from Budapest
Sep 11 13:20:30 <mw>	... under developer topics, of course
Sep 11 13:20:35 <decriptor>	mw: oooo, do share
Sep 11 13:20:50 <suseROCKs>	tambeti:    HH sessions aren't just about helping users resolve problems, but also glorifying the features of openSUSE.    Don't you wish to be glorified?
Sep 11 13:20:54 <tambeti>	decriptor: yes, I have a build service project which has 11.0 as well. Ask again next week (it's out of date at the moment)
Sep 11 13:21:05 <tambeti>	suseROCKs: meh :)
Sep 11 13:21:08 <tambeti>	suseROCKs: sure!
Sep 11 13:21:14 <suseROCKs>	hehe
Sep 11 13:21:25 <decriptor>	tambeti: I have to wait until next week :(
Sep 11 13:21:30 <decriptor>	:-)
Sep 11 13:21:34 <suseROCKs>	You guys are such publicity whores
Sep 11 13:21:47 <mw>	any other burning issues to talk about next week?
Sep 11 13:22:29 <suseROCKs>	umm  don't know about next week per se... but
Sep 11 13:22:47 <rodrigo_>	the contrib/G:C diff stuff
Sep 11 13:22:59 <suseROCKs>	we should probably take the time soon to start thinking of good ways to promote openSUSE-GNOME with the 11.1 release.   We brought up this issue rather closely to the 11.0 release last time.
Sep 11 13:23:20 <suseROCKs>	According to the survey results, gnome usage is up.  So keep up the momentum.
Sep 11 13:23:35 <mw>	rodrigo_: yep, definitely
Sep 11 13:23:54 <federico1>	oops
Sep 11 13:24:00 <federico1>	mw: sorry, I just came back from the shower
Sep 11 13:24:06 *	federico1 has a multiscreen update
Sep 11 13:24:37 *	suseROCKs smells federico1.... Oooh nice.  Jean Nate'?
Sep 11 13:24:49 <sreeves>	mw - probably should talk about how beta1 looks in next weeks meeting (first post feature freeze release)
Sep 11 13:25:07 <mw>	sreeves: nod, good point
Sep 11 13:25:39 <decriptor>	what's up with having non usable/installable alphas and then moving the a feature freeze beta?
Sep 11 13:26:04 *	federico1 sends some pheromones in suseROCKs's general direction
Sep 11 13:26:19 <decriptor>	is beta1 going to be installable
Sep 11 13:26:20 <bugbot>	New openSUSE 11.1 (GNOME) bug 425587 filed by ch.kamal@gmx.net.
Sep 11 13:26:22 <bugbot>	Bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/425587 Normal, P5 - None, NEW, after Gnome start the clock applet crashs
Sep 11 13:26:37 <mw>	any other agenda items?
Sep 11 13:26:39 <suseROCKs>	decriptor:   usability has no bearing on release schedules.  What does usability have to do with anything?  :-)
Sep 11 13:26:46 <mw>	well, they can be added to the wiki over the next week
Sep 11 13:26:51 <federico1>	decriptor: this is unfortunately very common with suse alpha releases :(  we need to find a way to test them better before they go out to the public
Sep 11 13:26:59 *	mw has changed the topic to:  http://en.openuse.org/GNOME | Meeting: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/Current : Multiscreen (federico1)
Sep 11 13:27:02 <mw>	federico1: go
Sep 11 13:27:05 <federico1>	ok
Sep 11 13:27:07 <decriptor>	federico1: 11.0 wasn't this bad
Sep 11 13:27:20 <suseROCKs>	+1 federico1   That's why I gave up in the last round.  And I'm hearing worse in this round.
Sep 11 13:27:40 <federico1>	yesterday I committed soeren's code to gnome-settings-daemon, so that on a laptop you can press Fn-F7 (or the appropriate laptop-specific hotkey) to switch the display outputs:  external/internal/both/etc
Sep 11 13:27:55 *	wolfiR has quit ("Leaving")
Sep 11 13:28:21 <federico1>	the only missing user-visible feature for multiscreen/RANDR is support for the Rotation hotkey in tablet notebooks; I'll work on that shortly
Sep 11 13:28:48 <federico1>	and the missing non-user-visible stuff is just plumbing for xorg.conf, and special-casing laptops for their display-related hotkeys
Sep 11 13:28:56 <federico1>	that's all for now
Sep 11 13:29:04 <decriptor>	is there any hope in getting this stuff working with the nvidia driver?
Sep 11 13:29:08 <suseROCKs>	Then I'm definitely making my tabletpc 11.1 based!
Sep 11 13:29:26 <benJIman>	Switching with fn key always worked on my thinkpad, what's new?
Sep 11 13:29:40 <decriptor>	benJIman: it doesn't work in 11.0 on a t61p
Sep 11 13:30:10 <decriptor>	not sure about others, didn't have this laptop when 10.3 was out
Sep 11 13:30:16 <sreeves>	federico1: hmm, if that starts working what will we do for entertainment at guadec lightning talks :).   mocking the presenters trying to sync up is a ritual
Sep 11 13:30:19 *	mhwork|gone is now known as mhutch
Sep 11 13:30:25 <federico1>	decriptor: probably not :(  nvidia's proprietary driver doesn't support RANDR 1.2, and I don't know about nouveau
Sep 11 13:30:36 <decriptor>	:(
Sep 11 13:30:41 *	decriptor wants to cry
Sep 11 13:30:42 <benJIman>	decriptor: WFM on a x40
Sep 11 13:30:50 <benJIman>	decriptor: And my t41
Sep 11 13:31:07 *	decriptor used to be so excited about his laptop
Sep 11 13:31:37 <federico1>	benJIman: I'm not really sure what happens on "older" laptops... they may just have a hardware switch to mirror the output.  What we do now is handle this in software, so you can have different contents on the different outputs
Sep 11 13:31:53 <federico1>	benJIman: (it never worked out of the box on my T41p, FWIW)
Sep 11 13:32:05 <mw>	nor mine
Sep 11 13:32:13 <federico1>	sreeves: we can move to mocking their non-working wifi :)
Sep 11 13:32:21 <suseROCKs>	nor mine, and I never even owned a t41p
Sep 11 13:32:30 <mw>	heh
Sep 11 13:32:33 <mw>	ok, q & a
Sep 11 13:32:41 *	mw has changed the topic to:  http://en.openuse.org/GNOME | Meeting: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/Current : Q & A (everybody)
Sep 11 13:33:10 <suseROCKs>	federico1:   will mouseTrap go into 11.1?
Sep 11 13:34:35 <suseROCKs>	mw:   great job on the meeting moderation
Sep 11 13:34:48 <suseROCKs>	I'll definitely return for seconds next week.
Sep 11 13:35:18 <mw>	heh
Sep 11 13:35:20 <bugbot>	New openSUSE 11.1 (GNOME) bug 425595 filed by ch.kamal@gmx.net.
Sep 11 13:35:22 <bugbot>	Bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/425595 Normal, P5 - None, NEW, Gnome: graphical applications don't start, no error message if started from desktop menu
Sep 11 13:35:34 <sreeves>	mw - if I update to the latest factory will all the nasty python problems when trying various osc builds go away
Sep 11 13:35:41 <sreeves>	mw - or will it get worse
Sep 11 13:35:51 <mw>	sreeves: not sure.  i haven't dupped in a while
Sep 11 13:36:42 <mw>	sreeves: but i doubt it; i don't see anything that looks relevant recently
Sep 11 13:38:52 <federico1>	suseROCKs: uh, I haven't packaged it yet :(
Sep 11 13:39:14 <federico1>	hmmm, didn't we have some specfile templates for GNOME modules?
Sep 11 13:39:27 <mw>	yes
Sep 11 13:40:02 <mw>	osc createspec
Sep 11 13:40:04 <federico1>	suseROCKs: I'm trying to get my nautilus patches ready for the deadline tomorrow, and it's looking quite good... if I have time this afternoon, I'll package it
Sep 11 13:40:36 <federico1>	mw: nice, thanks
Sep 11 13:41:03 <mw>	(use --standard=gnome)
Sep 11 13:41:18 *	decriptor moves that we get rid of GUIs
Sep 11 13:41:34 <decriptor>	though they are good for having tons of open terminals :)
Sep 11 13:43:08 *	abharath (n=abharath@59.92.227.210) has left #opensuse-gnome
Sep 11 13:43:52 <mw>	hehe
Sep 11 13:43:56 <mw>	i think we're done :)
Sep 11 13:44:09 *	mw has changed the topic to:  http://en.openuse.org/GNOME | Meeting done.  Transcript available soon.

Category:GNOME