Speaker: mw (18:02:00) mw has changed the topic to: Meeting starting now mw: Welcome to our weekly opensuse-gnome meeting, everybody FunkyPenguin: decriptor: sounds good to me mw: our first agenda item is a helping hands update

Speaker: suseROCKs (18:04:37) mw has changed the topic to: Meeting starting now: Helping Hands update (suseROCKs): http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/Current | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME mw: it looks like sr isn't here, though mw: so let's skip him for the time being and move on to the next item on the agenda

Speaker: decriptor/sontek (18:05:50) mw has changed the topic to: Meeting starting now: opensuse-tutorials for gnome update (decriptor/sontek) decriptor: looks like its me mw: indeed :) decriptor: so for anyone that hasn't taken a look or heard about it, opensuse-tutorials.com decriptor: there are several reasons for starting it, but the area of benefit that I see is its something with an rss feed decriptor: that way people can add it to their list on 'favorite aggregator' mw: so does a tutorial remain static once published? rodrigo_: and will the actual documentation be in o-tutorials, or in the OS wiki? decriptor: mw: unless it needs some major update. if it becomes irrelavent with the next release, I'd prefer there be a new article decriptor: we are planning on using the cat. and tags to allow easy searching mw: decriptor: ok, that sounds reasonable decriptor: rodrigo_: I don't plan on moving them to OS wiki, but there is nothing stopping someone else from doing that decriptor: in my mind the wiki is horrible to search and filter through unless you know what you are looking for rodrigo_: ok, just wanted to make sure there's no duplication, given we want more documentation on the wiki decriptor: something that I hope it being an rss feed and using cats and tags will make easier rodrigo_: on the wiki = on the main os site decriptor: right vuntz: yeah, having it on opensuse.org would be nice decriptor: we are looking for people to submit tutorials though rodrigo_: right, 1st thing 1st :) mw: is there a wishlist for tutorials? decriptor: mw: not right now, but there is no reason that there can't be. Maybe I'll setup a requests@opensuse-tutorials.com and generate a page from it decriptor: not sure of the best way to handle that decriptor: the site was announced a little ahead of it being ready :) mw: if it's done in wordpress, at least, you can create "pages" (as opposed to blog articles) that are more suitable for editing decriptor: we do have a channel #oS-T (been mostly for administration stuff), if anyone wants to request, submit, talk about it mw: one of them could be an invitation to contribute, with suggestions decriptor: mw: that's what I meant by static page :) mw: decriptor: ah, ok :) decriptor: mw: :( I haven't gotten around to finishing those pages jpr: how are contributors being advertised for? decriptor: ? decriptor: jpr: sorry, I'm confused decriptor: what do you mean? jpr: decriptor: how are you recruiting article contributors jpr: ? decriptor: jpr: are you talking about recognition for the post? decriptor: oh, I've resorted to begging :P jpr: ah jpr: ok :-) mw: decriptor: ok, anything else before we move on to the next topic? decriptor: seriously though, we are just asking around. decriptor: I might poke the kde guys and say, we need kde stuff only the gnome guys are contributing :P decriptor: mw: last thing, decriptor: if you do want to contribute, please create and accound and then let me know mw: ok :) decriptor: s/accound/account/ decriptor: ok, I'm good,

Speaker: vuntz, hpj, federico, jpr, rodrigo, and sreeves (18:17:40) mw has changed the topic to: Meeting on now: 11.0 updates review (vuntz, hpj, federico, jpr, rodrigo, and sreeves) mw: vuntz: what's the word on gnome-web-photo? vuntz: the update is done, afaik mw: good! vuntz: at least I received a "Your package was checked in in distribution "11.0"" mail jpr: i think its only in the test repo still tambeti: I did a NM update almost 3 weeks ago, received the same message, but the update is still not pushed vuntz: is there something that should be done to have it moved away from there? vuntz: or will it be automatically moved? mw: vuntz: the maintenance team takes care of that vuntz: ok mw: after a test update gets approved by QA, i guess jpr: tambeti: do you have the swamp id? tambeti: jpr: yes, a sec mw: hpj: any news on gvfs updates? tambeti: jpr: 18426 mw: federico1: you're listed as knowing about general updates vuntz: the general updates are blocked by anja/coolo right now hpj: mw: didn't submit it yet, since it's not critical - hopefully by end of week federico1: mw: yeah, I'm waiting on our internal updates process to approve those patches mw: (so clearly anybody pushing colonel updates is below you in the heirarchy) tambeti: turns out it was exactly a month ago +++federico1 checks the bug again mw: jpr: how about yast-gtk? mw: rodrigo_: and how about p.a.? vuntz: federico1: just waiting for feedback from coolo, iirc jpr: yast-gtk update - problems with the process, i poked the maintenance team again this morning hpj: mw: how about major updates? rodrigo_: mw: libesd needed another patch from fejj, so now it should be ok federico1: vuntz: yeah, exactly hpj: mw: still lower i guess rodrigo_: should we use the tracker bug for all updates? jpr: no, for non-critical ones jpr: ie nice-to-haves jpr: one good collection of this jpr: anything important should get its own swamp still rodrigo_: so should I include the Pa updates there? jpr: probably not rodrigo_: ok jpr: (btw for those wondering swamp id is a tracking id internally for an update) mw: anything else about updates for 11.0 before we move on to the developer topics? FunkyPenguin: im trying to get tasque updated to 0.1.6 in G:C mw: FunkyPenguin: running into problems? FunkyPenguin: and also submit it to factory FunkyPenguin: atm no, although the submission to factory may trip me up mw: it's usually not too hard :) +++FunkyPenguin is very simple ;) mw: anyway, moving along...

Speaker: captain_magnus (18:28:21) mw has changed the topic to: Meeting on now: Pattern Review (captain_magnus) mw: captain_maGNUs: still awake? decriptor: FunkyPenguin: I sit next to the tasque guys :) mw: i'll assume not mw: vuntz: shall we skip your bit on policy stuff? vuntz: yeah mw: ok vuntz: nothing to say mw: jpr: your turn

Speaker: jpr (18:29:44) mw has changed the topic to: Meeting on now: Feature Review (jpr) 18:30 jpr: ok jpr: not much progress unfortunately jpr: i need to do it though jpr: so i can have the moral authority to bug vuntz about the policy stuff jpr: the feature update at the end of the meeting jpr: will give you an idea of novell internal resourcing however jpr: if anyone knows they want to own testing/writing/documenting a feature please let me know jpr: mw: thats its for today :-/ mw: ok mw: now feature updates FunkyPenguin: jpr: is there talk on including new apps for 11.1?

Speaker: vuntz (18:32:37) mw has changed the topic to: Meeting on now: Feature Update: printing (vuntz) vuntz: heh vuntz: didn't know it was a topic but cool :-) vuntz: so not quite sure where to start vuntz: first, I package system-config-printer in home:vuntz:factory-playground vuntz: it'd be nice if people could test the package jpr: FunkyPenguin: pattern review/wishlisht really vuntz: the goal is to have this replace gnome-cups-manager FunkyPenguin: kk, thanks vuntz: (rationale for replacing gnome-cups-manager: old & unmaintained) mhwork|gone is now known as mhutch mw: good reason :) mw: vuntz: how testable is it if you don't have a printer? vuntz: I've started investigating the implementation of PolicyKit helpers to add/remove printers vuntz: mw: err, well, you can at least launch it and be happy about it ;-) vuntz: mw: but having a printer certainly helps mw: i was afraid of that ;) rodrigo_: test the avbout dialog vuntz: heh vuntz: the end goal of all this will be to be able to add/remove (and edit?) printers without the root password decriptor: vuntz: has there not been a valid build of it yet? mw: tbh, i never understood why it was ever needed to begin with, but that's another discussion for another time vuntz: and also work a bit more with what everybody else is using (system-config-printer). And do some work on there vuntz: decriptor: there was an old one decriptor: vuntz: not any more :) vuntz: mw: it's a security issue, it seems vuntz: cups is weird, I guess vuntz: anyway

Speaker: rodrigo (18:37:46) mw has changed the topic to: Meeting on now: Feature Update: pulseaudio (rodrigo) jpr: (cups runs as run and filters can be anything - do the security math :-) ) vuntz: (and if people have printers: don't hesitate to send me mails to tell me what you need to do to configure them) FunkyPenguin: vuntz: scream shout and beat the daylights out of it sometimes works mw: rockdrigo! decriptor: vuntz: patch failed? rodrigo_: heh vuntz: decriptor: sorry? rodrigo_: pulseaudio is being integrated into gnome 2.23/24 rodrigo_: along with libcanberra for sound events decriptor: rodrigo_: does that mean that it will work? :) rodrigo_: and a new volume control is in the works rodrigo_: decriptor: well, can't promise it will work for everyone, given the amount of bugs we get :) FunkyPenguin: rodrigo_: are you aware of a conflict between oS PA packages and packman PA packages jpr: when will glitch free be in factory? jpr: ie 0.9.11 rodrigo_: FunkyPenguin: no, which conflicts? rodrigo_: jpr: it already is jpr: excellent decriptor: the release notes for the 0.9.11 mentioned that you had to have a patched latest alsa in the kernel and alsa 1.0.17 mw: jpr: didn't lennart recommend against using 0.9.11 for anything other than testing decriptor: not sure why it would work on 11? mw: jpr: i was a bit worried that 0.9.12 wouldn't make it out in time FunkyPenguin: rodrigo_: let me check again now jpr: mw: ask rodrigo :-) jpr: rodrigo_, vuntz: do we need to have sound branding then? and can we clean up gnome-audio decriptor: https://tango.0pointer.de/pipermail/pulseaudio-discuss/2008-July/002083.html decriptor: the release notes jpr: the mostly useless gnome package :-) jpr: urgh rodrigo_: mw: that was before he released it, there are still problems, but it's mainly working jpr: that does sound problematic for SLE rodrigo_: there are problems with flash which should be fixed by a flash player update jpr: report bugs i guess mw: yeah mw: when is 0.9.12 supposed to come out? rodrigo_: I don't know of any dates vuntz: jpr: sound branding? Ideally, no: we'll just have an openSUSE sound theme vuntz: jpr: well, that's a yes, but we don't need a branding package jpr: ok mw: rodrigo_: anything else that needs mentioning? vuntz: jpr: but we might need to patch a few things to have them use libcanberra rodrigo_: mw: that's all I think mw: ok

Speaker: federico (18:45:10) mw has changed the topic to: Meeting on now: Feature Update: multiscreen (federico) mw: federico1: ! +++mw hears a pin drop mw: ok, next

Speaker: hpj (18:46:59) mw has changed the topic to: Meeting on now: Feature Update: gdm (hpj) mw: hpj: you're up hpj: ok, so hpj: i'm working on getting the new gdm in hpj: i've submitted a preliminary package hpj: but there are a couple of bugs i need to fix hpj: for instance, i discovered a crasher on a new install i made federico1: mw: put me up next hpj: that makes it impossible to log in :/ hpj: i think that's all i have to say for now unless there are questions hpj: oh hpj: i've also asked upstream for a new release since 2.22.0 is quite old hpj: and mccann promised one hpj: (- cut here --- mw: any questions for hp? suseROCKs [n=bryen@opensuse/member/Byunashko] entered the room. mw: i guess not :)

Speaker: federico (18:51:22) mw has changed the topic to: Meeting on now: Feature Update: multiscreen (federico) federico1: ok federico1: tomorrow we'll have a Helping Hands episode dedicated to multihead setups jpr: nice jpr: (not on the schedule though!) federico1: I'll be helping people to set up their multihead machines. Desktop + two monitors, laptop + projector, etc. decriptor: federico1: +1 decriptor: :) federico1: that's all from me, I think suseROCKs: hey guys... sorry I'm late. Just got home decriptor: suseROCKs: your fired decriptor: what time is helping hands? mw: federico1: ok, good stuff

Speaker: tambeti (18:53:54) mw has changed the topic to: Meeting on now: Feature Update: NetworkManager (tambet) suseROCKs: decriptor: HH is tmw at 15:30 UTC +++decriptor wonders if we can convince federico1 to turn that into a tutorial afterward for oS-T mw: tambeti: anything new and exciting in nm? tambeti: yes, glad you asked! federico1: decriptor: oooh, good idea tambeti: I announced ModemManager project today (http://mail.gnome.org/archives/networkmanager-list/2008-July/msg00274.html) tambeti: it's the modem driving code from NM moved out of process to a dbus system activated service bugbot: New openSUSE 11.0 (GNOME) bug 413665 filed by casualprogrammer@gmail.com. bugbot: Bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/413665 Normal, P5 - None, NEW, clock applet freezing gnome-panel on left click tambeti: and added loadable plugins support for nonstandard cards and operations mw: cool tambeti: so it's really easy now to add custom code for your modem +++mw reads the announcement vuntz: tambeti: sounds exciting tambeti: just derive from the generic class and override the method for your non standard card tambeti: it already supports signal quality monitoring etc for my card :) rodrigo_: tambeti: this "replaces" the mobile-manager thing? tambeti: it's out of process because there are many interested parties who have wanted to integrate their modem projects with NM and all of them have been written in python tambeti: so now they can, by implementing the same dbus api rodrigo_: ah great vuntz: tambeti: when will it go in factory? tambeti: also, it's out of process because I don't trust module writers, and crashing NM with a bad modem plugin is not cool :) tambeti: vuntz: it'll be a bit, I'll probably set up a repo in my obs home directory for now tambeti: the reason for that is that we're really close to 0.7 release and I can't land such a big change at the moment +++vuntz is interested in writing a plugin for his icon225 key wolfiR: vuntz: (reading scrollback) haven't had time today to apply your branding changes tambeti: vuntz: I'll be more than happy to help if you have any questions! vuntz: wolfiR: no problem wolfiR: vuntz: and yesterday OBS was down (when I'd have had time) vuntz: tambeti: well, just send a mail when you get packages ready :-) vuntz: then I'll look at all this tambeti: ok :) tambeti: (that's it from me) mw: good stuff mw: the other feature updates would be scott's, but he's out this week mw: if anyone knows what's up with them, now would be a good time to chime in :)

Speaker: no sreeves (19:02:13) mw has changed the topic to: Meeting on now: Feature Update: PackageKit + main-menu (no sreeves) hardlife: he submitted PackageKit 0.2.3 afaik to factory mw has changed the topic to: Meeting on now: Feature Update: PackageKit + main-menu (not sreeves) hardlife is now known as psp250 mw: ok mw: well, that's something :) jpr: its kind of broken though jpr: libzypp api changed psp250: hmm it works, the libzypp changes have been merged upstream federico1: main-menu is getting bugfixes steadily; I guess we can wait for sreeves to do another tarball release mw: ok

Speaker: mw/everybody (19:04:37) mw has changed the topic to: Meeting on now: Agenda for next week's meeting (mw/everybody) jpr: psp250: there were more after that i believe jpr: pattern review jpr: feature review jpr: feature update jpr: all again FunkyPenguin: rodrigo_: the conflicts im getting are jpr: updates review mw: jpr: nod, thought so :) jpr: policy review jpr: captain's two items as well mw: ok mw: ok, before Q&A... rodrigo_: FunkyPenguin: oh, 0.9.10/0.9.11 version mismatch it seems mw: suseROCKs: do you have anything to bring up about helping hands? suseROCKs: mw: this week, federico1 presents multi-screen. In two weeks, jimmac presents inkscape. And I'm hoping to line up lewing next week for f-spot decriptor: suseROCKs: is there a page on the wiki with a list of these? decriptor: maybe a schedule? suseROCKs: decriptor: I haven't updated it yet, but info about the program can be found at http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/HowTos FunkyPenguin: rodrigo_: that would make sense then :) rodrigo_: suseROCKs: btw, any news on the pages structure? (re: the HowTos/GNOME , GNOME/HowTos thing)? suseROCKs: rodrigo_: No new postings were made to -wiki so I assume its not being discussed. However... suseROCKs: I would like to poiint you to a new resource... opensuse-tutorials.com  :-) decriptor: lol rodrigo_: ok :) rodrigo_: I'll move my article there once it's finished suseROCKs: rodrigo_: it will be much easier for submitting articles there. No one has to know wiki syntax. suseROCKs: And most importantly... people will be able to FIND the topic of their interst.  :-) rodrigo_: yeah decriptor: suseROCKs: maybe create a schedule page on oS-T for helping hands decriptor: draw even more attention to opensuse and helping hands suseROCKs: decriptor: we could do that yes. Possibly next week or the week after I'm going to do a big call out for volunteers to mobilize HH to a higher level. +++decriptor notes that oS-T has had several hits from an ubuntu site :) mw: suseROCKs: good stuff. anything else before we move on to Q&A? suseROCKs: no but I would like to briefly bring up a new topic. Very briefly... mw: shoot suseROCKs: okay... +++decriptor ducks suseROCKs: As many of you know, I recently started a thread on the -ml called "Go Elsewhere?" suseROCKs: It appears that some people have misunderstood the thread and I'm somewhat sorry I ever brought it up. suseROCKs: But to make it clear, for anyone who wonders, the thread was NOT about whining about KDE vs. GNOME. +++rodrigo_ doesn't get any os mail :( rodrigo_: could you summarise what it was about? vuntz: suseROCKs: fwiw, many of us are not receiving mailing lists mail suseROCKs: Instead, I merely wanted to bring to our attention that I noticed some people in #suse saying that if you want to use GNOME, you should go to another distribution. vuntz: suseROCKs: (as in: all people using a novell.com address...) federico1: oh, so it's not just me that is not getting mail? mw: rodrigo_: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-gnome/2008-07/msg00058.html rodrigo_: federico1: all of us it seems ;( federico1: brilliant suseROCKs: And I felt that particular line of notion was of concern and when we see it, we should confront them before new users assume they can't use GNOME with openSUSE. suseROCKs: That's all. suseROCKs: Un fortunately, I have been ridiculed by some for having brought up that awareness to you all.. rodrigo_: ah, I guess it's jsut the old 'suse is kde-only' thing rodrigo_: ridiculed? who dared doing that?? :) suseROCKs: mw end of topic  :-) decriptor: any words, comments about the upcoming openSUSE day at Linux World Expo? decriptor: http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Day_at_LinuxWorld_Expo

Speaker: everbody (19:19:31) mw has changed the topic to: Meeting on now: Questions and Answers (everbody) decriptor: I have a few vuntz: stupid question: do we have plans to get rid of ggreeter? :-) mw: ask away suseROCKs: I have one... "Why is it that I always have 100 questions, but when Q&A comes up, I forget what they are?" decriptor: why don't we have a public update-beta channel decriptor: suseROCKs: I wrote mine down :P mw: decriptor: what do you mean? mw: decriptor: to test updates for released distros? decriptor: so on ubuntu for example, you can pull unreleased updates to test them mw: decriptor: we have those :) suseROCKs: I think we already have a test repo suseROCKs: ok I'll follow that with another question... if we DO test from the test repo. How do we get back to where we were if the test update is crap? decriptor: mw: I'm freakin out of the loop :( mw: suseROCKs: well, the rpm will say it's a fix for bug #12345 decriptor: mw: where is the repo? mw: suseROCKs: so i guess you'd go to that bug and say that the test package is no good suseROCKs: mw, I guess I'm looking for a nicer revert process. You'll gain more testers if we can do it that way. decriptor: mw: I think he was talking about reverting mw: oh.. does zypper let you specify where an installed package comes from? suseROCKs: mw: read the zypper how-to on opensuse-tutorials.com  :-) mw: decriptor: http://download.opensuse.org/update/ mw: suseROCKs: hehe :) decriptor: mw: thanks decriptor: mw: I heard the tutorials up there are pretty good :P rodrigo_: I heard the guy who wrote them is not nice though :) federico1: oh, one question decriptor: though general and not gnome, has opensuse thought about an opensuse hosted projects site? decriptor: rodrigo_: very likely :) and since he isn't here to defend himself, yes federico1: mw: I want to start publishing rpm2git repositories with our patches. In the process, we'll have to edit our patches to include meaningful comments about what they do (possibly just cut&paste from specfiles into the top of the patches themselves)... how should we submit those updated patches? autobuild or build service? mw: federico1: build service suseROCKs: so there is currently no easy way to revert to an older package? rodrigo_: mw: so now that things are fixed, we should all be using the BS right? mw: rodrigo_: yeah suseROCKs: or previously-installed package I should say. federico1: mw: ok mw: rodrigo_: expect a bumpy ride for a while, of course rodrigo_: mw: and what about the process for submitreq'ing to O:F? decriptor: rodrigo_: osc branch decriptor: right? rodrigo_: suseROCKs: zypper in -f -r $REPO vuntz: rodrigo_: you want to submitreq to G:F vuntz: rodrigo_: it will be sent to O:F mw: rodrigo_: i have a plugin that shows what's different between two repos mw: rodrigo_: based loosely on jp's linksame plugin, but it's a way to check which packages need to be sent back to factory rodrigo_: I mean who accepts the submissions to G:F and forwards them to O:F? mw: rodrigo_: so far i've been doing it rodrigo_: mw: you mentioned having a process for it mw: rodrigo_: it's still kind of rough, but i guess i ought to write it up decriptor: mw: that would make a great oS-T tutorial decriptor: in all seriousness decriptor: getting people in the community aware of being able to contribute to 11.1 decriptor: (factory) mw: decriptor: well, what i'm talking about is more for repo maintainers... mw: decriptor: and i'm still playing it by ear... decriptor: ah decriptor: gotcha mw: decriptor: but i agree that the process of contributing something to a package can and should be written up mw: decriptor: that part i understand well enough :) decriptor: mw: I believe you :) decriptor: it would be cool to add something that made nvidia and ati driver installs even easier decriptor: in 11.1 mw: yeah decriptor: that and broadcom. it seems to be a sore point for opensuse mw: anyway... any more questions? decriptor: lots and lots and lots of help requests in #suse for that stuff decriptor: mw: would something like that be possible for 11.1 decriptor: ? mw: decriptor: dunno :) decriptor: :( +++decriptor was hoping for more of a 'yeah, let do it!'  :P decriptor: I'm good though +++suseROCKs was hoping decriptor would take up the lead and do it.  :-)

Speaker: mw (19:37:32) mw has changed the topic to: Meeting done; transcript up soon! | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME mw: ok, I guess that's it mw: thanks everybody :)