Started at --> 06:03:23 PM jpr: Welcome to the openSUSE GNOME Team Meeting! jpr: minus our rapidly expanding, turkey eating american friends rodrigo: :) jpr: i expect a somewhat shortened meeting as we can't get all the topics covered with the right people today

Started at --> 06:04:39 PM (06:04:45 PM) jpr: so lets move a head (06:04:54 PM) jpr: in place of mtgordon today (06:05:08 PM) jpr: I'd like to report that the last bug day was very successful despite the late notice (06:05:56 PM) jpr: we reviewed nearly 100 10.2 bugs. There are about 70 left and these plus 10.1 remaining bugs (06:06:04 PM) jpr: should be all reviewed in one more bug day (06:06:14 PM) jpr: what did people think about wed vs friday? (06:06:20 PM) jpr: in terms of day of the week (06:06:56 PM) rodrigo: wednesday seems better (06:06:57 PM) jpr: bueller? (06:06:59 PM) jpr: yes? (06:07:06 PM) jpr: ok (06:07:08 PM) jpr: others? (06:07:18 PM) jpr: psp250, ivanz, cyberorg : thoughts on wed. vs friday? (06:07:32 PM) cyberorg: wed is fine (06:07:43 PM) psp250: wed > fri (06:07:44 PM) jpr: any better or worse than friday though? (06:08:00 PM) jpr: looks like wed. is a multiple + (06:08:05 PM) jpr: any objections there? (06:08:09 PM) jpr: or concerns? (06:08:28 PM) jpr: ok, done (06:08:41 PM) jpr: i'd suggest we stick to bi-weekly as planned before (06:08:53 PM) ivanz: Both are fine with me (06:09:01 PM) jpr: and try and convince mtgordon to set one up for 6 days from now (06:09:09 PM) jpr: to clean up all remaining pre 10.3 bugs (06:09:12 PM) ivanz: but if there is one next week I won't be able to attend. I will be attending the Mono summit in spain that week (06:09:19 PM) jpr: nice (06:09:27 PM) mw: qué envidia (06:09:44 PM) jpr: ivanz, psp250 : don't forget I'm still looking for addresses to send t-shirts too :-) (06:09:47 PM) jpr: jpr@novell.com! (06:10:00 PM) ivanz: do you want them in CVS format :)) as the one for the box (06:10:02 PM) jpr: AI: JP to request mtgordon set up bug day next wed. (06:10:04 PM) psp250: jpr: sent a mail yesterday (06:10:10 PM) jpr: nice (06:10:14 PM) jpr: (behind on mail) (06:10:21 PM) jpr: ivanz: sure :-) (06:10:32 PM) jpr: anything else on bug squash days?

Started at --> (06:10:55 PM) jpr: federico1 and rodrigo : take it away (06:11:01 PM) federico1: well (06:11:12 PM) federico1: to be honest, I haven't categorized any bugs this week :) I've been busy hacking intlclock (06:11:19 PM) ChrisJaege1 [n=usr01@92.226.210.113] entered the room. (06:11:43 PM) federico1: so no progress from me on the bug plan (06:12:26 PM) jpr: rodrigo: anything to add to that? (06:12:32 PM) rodrigo: neither from me, I just categorized a couple at the beginning of the week, not much more (06:12:43 PM) jpr: ok (06:12:56 PM) jpr: i will note we have one open 11.0 showstopper (06:12:57 PM) rodrigo: wehn we're done with <= 10.2 bugs, it would be good to do some categorization on a bug squash day (06:13:07 PM) jpr: rodrigo: good suggestion (06:13:09 PM) jpr: in firefox (06:13:14 PM) jpr: mw: ^^ :-) (06:13:26 PM) jpr: 3 reports plus i see it too (06:13:49 PM) jpr: just a reminder our policy is to have zero tolerance today (06:13:55 PM) jpr: (it was just added today though) (06:14:12 PM) mw: oh? (06:14:27 PM) jpr: mw: yah, see the query at http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Bugs (06:14:32 PM) jpr: for 11.0 (06:15:01 PM) jpr: rodrigo, federico1 : so you'll probably continue tagging next week?> (06:15:07 PM) rodrigo: yes (06:15:29 PM) jpr: any other questions on the bug plan? (06:15:30 PM) rodrigo: oh, I see that showstopper too (06:15:47 PM) federico1: jpr: yeah (06:15:52 PM) federico1: jpr: oh, is that a gcc bug? (06:16:02 PM) jpr: maybe (06:16:06 PM) federico1: fun fun fun (06:16:15 PM) jpr: i'm sure mw would love help tracking it down if so :-)

Started at --> 06:16:46 PM) jpr: tasks (06:16:49 PM) jpr: the overdue (06:17:01 PM) jpr: sbrabec: can you update the ETA for GNOME:STABLE in your task? (06:17:07 PM) jpr: or close it if we won't do 10.1 (06:17:25 PM) Nat_: jpr: sure (06:17:29 PM) jpr: mw: library sample spec? presumably we have a hard deadline of next week (06:17:40 PM) jpr: friday that is (06:18:22 PM) mw: i'll try to do it today (06:18:26 PM) ***jpr is bad on the features on the task list (06:18:39 PM) hpj: i'd like to mention that i started the directory at http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Directory (06:18:52 PM) hpj: and moved my task to "completed" (06:18:59 PM) jpr: ah (06:19:01 PM) jpr: very good (06:19:02 PM) hpj: but we still need people to add themselves (06:19:12 PM) hpj: to flesh out the list (06:19:37 PM) hpj: more items under Topics, too (06:19:56 PM) jpr: mw: can we mark as done the scratch the itch item? (06:20:03 PM) jpr: the one with no ETA (06:20:33 PM) jpr: rodrigo, federico1 : also need to get the zero tolerance plan written down on the bug policy still (06:20:36 PM) mw: jpr: yes (06:20:49 PM) jpr: great (06:20:59 PM) rodrigo: jpr: yes, just added the task today, sorry, I had forgotten the minutes of last meeting (06:21:04 PM) jpr: any other questions about the task list this week? (06:21:08 PM) jpr: rodrigo: np (06:21:22 PM) jpr: (man this new format of captain_magnus' is pretty sweet to follow up with) (06:21:29 PM) rodrigo: yeah (06:21:40 PM) sbrabec: jpr: I am afraid, that fixing for 10.1 would be a time intensive task - it is going to be broken faster than I am able to fix it. (06:21:50 PM) Gothica_ [n=pavel@87.251.157.6] entered the room. (06:22:12 PM) jpr: ok, side discussion on this task then (06:22:20 PM) jpr: should we disable 10.1 and close the task? (06:22:26 PM) mw: yes (06:22:27 PM) jpr: i am for closing 10.1 (06:22:36 PM) federico1: jpr: sure (06:22:45 PM) mw: if someone wants to take it up, cool, but for my part, i don't think it's worth the effort (06:22:58 PM) sbrabec: Or not disable and keep it as is. Many packages are there, but no guarantee to have all available. (06:23:31 PM) jpr: if we do that we should write down that fact in the wiki (06:23:34 PM) jpr: to avoid bug reports (06:23:39 PM) mw: does it waste a lot of resources keeping the target active? (06:24:22 PM) sbrabec: I guess that no. It does not recompile often. But it could waste a week man-work to fix all packages. (06:24:36 PM) sbrabec: And it can break again in subsequent submit. (06:24:49 PM) mw: right -- for old distros, only things whose dependencies change are rebuilt (06:25:11 PM) sbrabec: It needs special patches to be able to run with older version of many libraries - hal, dbus,... (06:25:31 PM) jpr: ok, sounds like the main question is to just let it rot (06:25:36 PM) jpr: or really disable it completely (06:25:55 PM) jpr: i'm +1 on disable completely, not worth the hassle to explain to people (06:26:06 PM) mw: i agree (06:26:21 PM) rodrigo: yeah, and I guess it depends what gets built, it might even be useless (06:26:29 PM) mw: it's possible to disable in general but override for specific packages that do build (06:26:32 PM) rodrigo: that is, you might be able to install gtk, but nothing that uses it (06:26:36 PM) mw: ...but i don't know if that's really a good idea (06:26:39 PM) rodrigo: or what gets built without patches? (06:27:06 PM) jpr: sbrabec: your vote on this? you have been maintaining it after all :-) (06:28:01 PM) sbrabec: Well, just now SUSE_Linux_10.1: (06:28:05 PM) sbrabec: Succeeded 255 (06:28:11 PM) sbrabec: Failed 43 (06:28:19 PM) sbrabec: Expansion error: 31 (06:28:23 PM) sbrabec: Disabled: 11 (06:28:42 PM) sbrabec: https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=GNOME%3ASTABLE (06:29:34 PM) jpr: i guess it would remain fairly stable for now (06:29:40 PM) jpr: since it won't get 2.21.x (06:29:46 PM) jpr: how about (06:30:05 PM) jpr: "make its stanislav's call but don't require 10.1 to be built for G:S" (06:30:07 PM) jpr: +1 (06:30:21 PM) rodrigo: +1 (06:30:30 PM) sbrabec: +1 (06:30:44 PM) jpr: sbrabec: ok, close out your task in the wiki :-) (06:30:49 PM) jpr: anything else on tasks? (06:31:25 PM) jpr: ok

Started at --> 06:31:45 PM jpr: one wiki question this week (06:31:52 PM) jpr: Q: Any ETA on Bug 310208 - missplaced panel on widescreen displays? Widescreen + intel driver can't be that uncommon a scenario... (06:31:54 PM) bugbot: openSUSE bug 310208 in openSUSE 10.3 (GNOME) "missplaced panel on widescreen displays" [Major,Assigned] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=310208 (06:31:55 PM) jpr: from JosefAssad (06:31:59 PM) jpr: federico1: care to comment (06:32:15 PM) jpr: btw, its possible that bug is an x problem (06:32:16 PM) JosefAssad: that's me :) I'm not sure if whining there is appropriate... (06:32:22 PM) jpr: JosefAssad: its fine (06:32:37 PM) jpr: i was shown yesterday that 'xrandr --auto' after login fixes the problem (06:32:39 PM) jpr: for that session (06:32:49 PM) jpr: sndirsch may know more (06:32:50 PM) JosefAssad: I looked at the labeling; obviously it isn't a _showstopper_ , but it's got me locked into KDE. :\ (06:32:53 PM) federico1: jpr: keithp says it's an X driver bug. We can implement a little workaround in the panel, but that bug really needs to be fixed (06:33:24 PM) jpr: federico1: the backend and stuff is affected as well (06:33:45 PM) federico1: jpr: what backend? (06:34:04 PM) ***JosefAssad trundles off to try xrandr --auto (no worries, irssi inside GNU screen) (06:34:06 PM) jpr: rodrigo,hpj: the Xsesssion stuff that gdm runs now again doesn't happen to run anything that might fix this? (06:34:21 PM) jpr: federico1: err, "background" (06:34:24 PM) jpr: ie nautilus (06:34:25 PM) jpr: and gdm (06:34:30 PM) hpj: jpr: i doubt it (06:34:41 PM) federico1: jpr: oh, yes - nautilus gets the WM struts from the panel, but the panel sets them wrong (06:34:58 PM) jpr: ok (06:35:08 PM) jpr: federico1: so sndirsch might know more (06:35:11 PM) jpr: so i think (06:35:28 PM) jpr: A: yes, there has been progress, but there is no fix available yet (06:35:29 PM) hpj: i also have a widescreen display - no intel driver, though (06:35:48 PM) jpr: thoenig: showed it to me on an intel widescreen as well (06:36:02 PM) jpr: other questions this week? (06:36:38 PM) JosefAssad: one more (06:36:43 PM) JosefAssad: sorry, this just occurred to me (06:37:21 PM) JosefAssad: in that bug listing, there's two bugs listed at the bottom as dependencies. I got access deined for those two. Was just wondering what's up with that. (06:37:55 PM) rodrigo: it's just open for novell employees :( (06:38:03 PM) JosefAssad: hm, okay. (06:38:12 PM) jpr: they are tracker bugs (06:38:14 PM) jpr: fwiw (06:38:19 PM) JosefAssad: I guess thatcould be one openFate selling point, assuming it will be more transparent (06:38:21 PM) jpr: just for internal tracking purposes (06:38:25 PM) jpr: no additional information (06:38:31 PM) JosefAssad: alright. Was just curious (06:38:32 PM) jpr: (tracking for SLE ) (06:38:38 PM) JosefAssad: yes, I thought so... (06:38:41 PM) jpr: any other questions? (06:38:45 PM) JosefAssad: that's it for me! Thanks

Started at --> 06:39:09 PM jpr: moving to the developer portion (06:39:20 PM) jpr: i think we have some *fantastic* updates (06:39:34 PM) Nat_ left the room (quit: Read error: 113 (No route to host)). (06:39:42 PM) jpr: fyi i've been in germany this week walking around with a laptop demoing to people (06:39:57 PM) jpr: all the cool stuff that happened in the last couple of weeks (06:40:04 PM) jpr: rodrigo: pulseaudio status? (06:40:25 PM) rodrigo: yes (06:40:42 PM) rodrigo: basic packages are built, and in a way that no change is needed in the apps linking to libgnome (06:40:59 PM) rodrigo: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Ideas/11.0/PulseAudio contains packages and 1-click install, thanks to cyberorg, for testing (06:41:07 PM) jpr: cyberorg: where's that screenshot you had? (06:41:16 PM) rodrigo: cyberorg: btw, could you add a 1-click install thing for factory also, please? (06:41:31 PM) cyberorg: (06:41:38 PM) rodrigo: and well, basic stuff is working, just a few small problems in the packaging that need to be solved (06:41:43 PM) cyberorg: rodrigo, it should come up for both (06:41:51 PM) jpr: cyberorg: can you give us a summary of whats in the screenshot (06:41:54 PM) rodrigo: like user permissions for pulseaudio (06:42:03 PM) rodrigo: cyberorg: oh, can't see it (06:42:05 PM) ***rodrigo reloads (06:42:19 PM) rodrigo: ah, there it is, it was not there before though (06:42:34 PM) cyberorg: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/rodrigomoya:/pulseaudio/openSUSE_Factory/pulseaudio.ymp (06:43:12 PM) cyberorg: jpr, what you are seeing in the shot are all the pa apps, information shows that they are connect to pulse server, and volume control app shows banshee as client (06:43:42 PM) hpj: nice! (06:43:56 PM) Nat_ [i=nat@nat/suse/x-f398331689337a9e] entered the room. (06:43:58 PM) jpr: cyberorg: so that's per app volume control? (06:44:04 PM) cyberorg: any application using pulse will show up in volume control app, below banshee and you can control all of them from there individually (06:44:10 PM) jpr: woot (06:44:54 PM) jpr: cyberorg, rodrigo, psp250 - that is darn awesome! (06:45:10 PM) jpr: hpj: any a11y update? (06:45:23 PM) jpr: cyberorg, rodrigo : i see blogs in your future (06:45:27 PM) rodrigo: yes :) (06:45:29 PM) jpr: (hopefully) (06:45:44 PM) cyberorg: it is all ready to go, but my blog is down (06:46:01 PM) rodrigo: jpr: one thing that I don't know yet is what KDE thinks for 11.0 and PA, so who should I contact? (06:46:24 PM) jpr: rodrigo: will stephenson, dirk mueller or stephan binner (06:46:27 PM) jpr: i'm not sure which (06:46:29 PM) rodrigo: ok (06:46:58 PM) cyberorg: this is banshee and xine (06:47:50 PM) rodrigo: I can see a DJ-app with this :) (06:47:54 PM) jpr: federico1: intl clock update? (06:47:56 PM) hpj: jpr: bryen (suseROCKS) and I have been talking about a11y (06:48:37 PM) hpj: jpr: we'd like to extend it to usability to some degree (06:49:11 PM) hpj: jpr: bryen has some ideas (06:49:53 PM) hpj: he's started filing bugs (06:50:07 PM) jpr: great (06:50:19 PM) hpj: and i'm looking at the broader tasks from the list (06:50:34 PM) jpr: are we looking at mostly bug fixing still? (06:50:43 PM) jpr: or is there some cool new stuff to do? (06:50:44 PM) munkii [n=munkii@217.54.184.168] entered the room. (06:51:02 PM) munkii left the room. (06:51:59 PM) jpr: federico1: intl clock update? (06:52:12 PM) jpr: while waiting for that (06:52:22 PM) hpj: i'll be prioritizing new features from today (06:52:28 PM) jpr: ok (06:52:29 PM) hpj: starting with enabling a11y by default (06:52:47 PM) jpr: awesome! (06:52:49 PM) hpj: the gnome-terminal feature should be easy to do too (06:53:32 PM) jpr: For packagekit, unfortunately btimothy and sreeves are not here but (06:53:33 PM) jpr: http://boyd.musipal.com/2007/11/packagekit-gets-zypp-backend.html (06:53:53 PM) jpr: they have a backend that can list repos, enable/disable repos (06:54:03 PM) jpr: and even install a package now (06:54:10 PM) jpr: natively with libzypp (06:54:25 PM) ivanz: who is they (06:54:36 PM) jpr: btimothy and sreeves wrote it (06:54:45 PM) ivanz: ah okay I misunderstood (06:54:48 PM) jpr: its in the upstream PackageKit repo (06:55:05 PM) jpr: Duncan MVP the yast lead and Klaas Kampf were excited to see it today (06:55:24 PM) jpr: it has nice PolicyKit usage, a command line tool and a gui (06:55:27 PM) jpr: really sweet (06:55:40 PM) jpr: captain_magnus: main menu update? (06:55:45 PM) jpr: federico1: intl clock update? (06:56:02 PM) ***hpj thinks federico needs to enable sound notifications (06:56:11 PM) rodrigo: :) (06:56:46 PM) jpr: intlclock is in the build service with PolicyKit enabled timezone and time setting (06:56:57 PM) mw: that would open himself up to a Denial Of Concentration attack ;) (06:56:59 PM) jpr: so you can actually turn off need root to set the timezone (06:57:12 PM) jpr: or you can require root password (06:57:19 PM) jpr: or there person's own password (06:57:26 PM) mw: neat (06:57:27 PM) ***jpr should blog on PolicyKit (06:57:40 PM) ivanz: a lot of niceness being developed and becoming stable lately (06:57:42 PM) mw: sounds like it has many potential applications (06:57:45 PM) jpr: its *really* useful (06:57:48 PM) jpr: yes (06:58:11 PM) jpr: for main menu i know Michael Meeks found a problem in the gnome-menus code (06:58:16 PM) jpr: that backs the app browser (06:58:24 PM) jpr: that was a big win and sent a patch (06:58:35 PM) jpr: not sure how the UI redesign is going (06:58:56 PM) jpr: anything else on the new dev front? (06:59:06 PM) jpr: mw: eta on GNOME 2.21.x going in? (06:59:23 PM) mw: jpr: stanislav and i (and mauro) still need to talk about that (06:59:31 PM) jpr: ok (06:59:35 PM) jpr: anything else anyone? (06:59:39 PM) mw: i'm not totally comfortable with the automagic build requirements hack (07:00:09 PM) mw: packaging day is in 8 days, nov 30 (07:00:17 PM) jpr: how timely

Started at --> 07:00:23 PM jpr: :-) (07:00:26 PM) mw: hehe (07:00:36 PM) mw: there isn't a whole lot to report. (07:00:53 PM) mw: dirk and i have sent mails to relevant mailing lists, posted to our blogs, and got an entry on news.o.o (07:01:04 PM) mw: (we didn't actually add that news entry, so thanks to apok for doing it) (07:01:50 PM) mw: if you can't attend, you should still add packages you'd like to see, because maybe someone else will be able to do work on them (07:02:47 PM) jpr: mw: sweet - anything else to add? (07:02:52 PM) mw: can't think of anything

Started at --> 07:03:03 PM jpr: any questions on any of the development topics? (07:03:10 PM) jpr: or development in general for 11.0? (07:04:01 PM) rodrigo: what should we do with the new features to get them to the main distro from our BS projects? (07:04:26 PM) rodrigo: that is, the PA should be ready soon for wide testing (07:04:32 PM) jpr: mostly once they are stabilized i think you just move them in (07:04:42 PM) jpr: for PA you'll have to talk to some package maintainers (07:04:47 PM) rodrigo: and we need to solve some problems (liek the user permissions) where other people from opensuse might have something to say (07:05:02 PM) jpr: mailing opensuse-factory@ would be the way to go for that (07:05:06 PM) rodrigo: ok (07:05:29 PM) jpr: other questions? (07:05:41 PM) psp250: Are the NM 0.7 packages up in OBS yet? Was there an SUSE/Novell board decision to head for PA? (07:05:49 PM) psp250: *a (07:06:25 PM) jpr: ooo (07:06:29 PM) jpr: good questions (07:06:51 PM) rodrigo: the board should not take technical decisions, AFAIK (07:06:55 PM) jpr: A: NM 0.7 will be in factory soon, its being submitted in the next day or too (07:07:16 PM) jpr: dhcp is now updated for it (07:07:23 PM) jpr: and that was the last blocker i think (07:07:37 PM) jpr: i would wait for those packages (07:07:47 PM) psp250: kk (07:07:56 PM) jpr: A: no, no board decision, but i did discuss it with Takashi Iwai (07:08:07 PM) jpr: who is the kernel sound guy today and a couple months ago (07:08:11 PM) jpr: he is positive on it (07:08:21 PM) rodrigo: yes, he even packaged it :) (07:08:24 PM) jpr: its a software mixer so it does not remove alsa (07:09:01 PM) jpr: other questions?

Started at --> 07:09:42 PM) jpr: its schnitzel time for me then