Started at --> 19:00:07 captain_magnus: Australia dliang: Yes, I'll mail you at this weekend. I need to translate it to English. hpj: hey duncan :) jpr: Welcome to the weekly openSUSE GNOME team meeting! federico1: dliang: awesome :) jpr: of special interest this week jpr: is some initial discussion on openSUSE 11.0 and gnome jpr: so with out further ado jpr: let me move into that federico1: dliang: by the way, check out http://live.gnome.org/GnomeCookbook *duncanm sits in

Started at --> 19:01:14 jpr: as some of you may know jpr: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Ideas/11.0 ivanz: Subpixel hinting to be default jpr: is a rough list of ideas for 11.0 jpr: until the real feature workflow is worked out project wide duncanm: it'd be nice to get PulseAudio by default jpr: duncanm: read the list jpr: the initial list came from a list of things i had written down over a few months jpr: and has been augmented by others now jpr: i encourage others to add ideas there as well jpr: in one or two point chunks jpr: two other points i'd like to note before opening it up a bit jpr: 1) Workflow jpr: with the build service working well we should take advantage of it to build and test features jpr: before flowing them into factory jpr: to cut down on de-stabilization of factory jpr: 2) Priorities jpr: to me the things that we need to look at first have time and risk constraints jpr: either we need to investigate/solve early or its a big risk so getting it in early for lots of testing is appropriate jpr: my list of those items currently (in no particular order) jpr: is jpr: a) pulse audio jpr: b) packagekit jpr: c) compiz and default and with better integrated setup jpr: d) international clock (because we need to get the in to upstream GNOME) jpr: so federico1: jpr: accessibility should be tested early if we turn it on by default jpr: with that being said, it would be good to start getting an idea of who is interested in developing,testing,documenting jpr: the various features federico1: and anything related to printing jpr: and maybe walk away with a rough plan for 4-6 of these features jpr: federico1: good pint jpr: i'll open it up to the floor for discussion jpr: go :-) captain_magnus: Is accessibility going to impact performance? suseROCKS: I'll be glad to help out with documentation rodrigo: if it does, we should fix it :) captain_magnus: jpr: I'm keen to be involved in anyway I can... mtgordon: Is a11y going to impact stability? jpr: mtgordon: yes, possibly mtgordon: jpr: Including OOo? jpr: mtgordon: but we can't have it hiding in a dark corner forever mtgordon: jpr: Agreed captain_magnus: Does most OS's have it on by default? jpr: no jpr: its on by default in the gnome development cycle jpr: but off in the stable releases jpr: in ubuntu 7.4 jpr: they did a lot of work jpr: including an accessible installer jpr: i'm not sure if they had it on by default or not though suseROCKS: accessibility should be made to be seamless with default stability. if accessibility remains in a "dark corner" its hard for people who need it to get to it. So I think JPR has the right idea here. jpr: other thoughts captain_magnus: I would vote -1 for turning it on by default unless we see a huge demand for it, but with an option of making it riddiculisly easy to turn it on jpr: ok rodrigo: we are working in upstream control-center to merge the a11y settings into the other capplets cyberorg: it would be good to have an option to enable/disable at boot screen sreeves: is there another advantage of having it on by default past the development cycle besides just forcing bugs to be fixed ? mtgordon: It's reasonable to turn it on for testing. federico1: we also need a testing plan for a11y - if you just turn it on it stays mostly invisible, but you are not really using it... jpr: cyberorg: good point, vista has this now mtgordon: And we should make sure that the bits we own are stable/speedy rodrigo: that is, to make a11y part of the system, not a "dark corner" mtgordon: But if things beyond our control don't work, we should be prepared to turn it off when we ship. jpr: hpj: thoughts on a11y as you've been banging away on it? suseROCKS: or better yet, have an option in the yast installer for accessibility options right off the bat jpr: mtgordon: maybe this is a good candidate for a public testopia plan hpj: jpr: i think you pretty much said it jpr: ok hpj: also like federico says, we need someone to test it :) rodrigo: suseROCKS: that makes sense, given this: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9575 cyberorg: it should be on/available by default as people who need a11y wont be able to turn it on later jpr: i think we are looking at everyone for testing a11y and suseROCKS for doc/testing and hpj for dev *hpj tried closing his eyes and using the screen reader jpr: to nail down the big current issues at least suseROCKS: Rodrigo I'm not authorized to see the bug you pointed out. federico1: hpj: train like a ninja with a blindfold on jpr: ok, and time line for a11y is "now" jpr: since its kind of borked in 10.3 as it stands jpr: good btimothy: any focus from our team on these top issues: 1) networking (should just work), 2) graphics support (plug into a projector and it should just work), 3) fix package management (i know we're gonna look into PackageKit) rodrigo: suseROCKS: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=494610 (for the upstream version) bugbot: Gnome bug 494610 in gnome-control-center (Assistive Technology Preferences) "Warn about missing a11y tools" [Normal,New] jpr: btimothy: 3) you covered suseROCKS: rodrigo thanks jpr: btimothy: 2) *should* get covered by xrandr 1.3 and also it may be fixed by a bug rodrigo found solving the tablet problem hpj: i'm a little scared of the "everyone is responsible for testing" approach, to be honest btimothy: just trying to make the point that these are the biggest glaring "problems" in our distro and that adding other stuff won't make too much difference if these probs. still exist federico1: has anyone played with accersier (is that the thing that looks for non-accessible spots in programs?) hpj: when "everyone" is responsible, it easily becomes "no one" jpr: we were skipping automatic config of the projector munkii: what hpj said btimothy: federico1: yeah, i started looking at it at boston summit a little bit federico1: btimothy: oh, cool captain_magnus: hpj: suseROCKS os the main tester :-) He didn't object... rodrigo: hpj: we can do bug squashing/finding days btimothy: federico1: (with the a11y guys) ivanz: Plese someone poke me when it's appropriate to speak. I have something very short in relation to fonts suseROCKS: shoot, I volunteered to test? LOL jpr: btimothy: networking is a lot about the drivers, we need to make sure we list all the problematic ones on gregkh's driver page hpj: suseROCKS: you rock :) captain_magnus: suseROCKS: Not only test, but document as well :-) btimothy: i know that jframe (QA guys) felt hugely ignored when they submitted GNOME bugs for 10.3 btimothy: and they expressed interest in being more involved btimothy: jpr: not sure if jframe has talked with you more on the subject? jpr: btimothy: in general yes we care but we need to focus and packagekit seems to be an obvious spot to make our contribution federico1: ivanz: go ahead ivanz: I have 2 suggestions ivanz: default to 96 DPI in all cases jpr: btimothy: ok, but a bit off topic for this discussion ivanz: and default to SubPixel smoothing with Full hinting instead of Best Shapes munkii: jpr, i think we should add a voice recognition tool as an openSUSE accessibility advantage jpr: ivanz: there is a fonts section, please add jpr: munkii: please add to accessbility btimothy: jpr: only that hpj brought up "testing" which is why i mention it here jpr: btimothy: ok ivanz: also one thing about Networing I have jpr: psp250: can i interest you in getting involved with the pulseaudio stuff? I have a nice long todo list from lennart ivanz: ndisgtk ... anyone tried that? suseROCKS: Voice recognition as in speech to text? captain_magnus: The App Browser seems to be a place for improvement looking at the list etc... Any plans there? jpr: psp250: plus we have sreeves and rodrigo upstream control center guys to get gnome gui changes in which lennart is hoping someone would do jpr: let me track the meeting back a bit munkii: i have seen 3 main projects for linux voice recognition jpr: if you have simple suggestions, please add them to the wiki jpr: it will be a long meeting just to list individual items here :-) munkii: suseROCKS: no, voice recognition as in "voice recognition" jpr: (add your names to the wiki as the person who cares as well so it can be followed up) munkii: http://perlbox.org/ , http://cmusphinx.sourceforge.net/html/cmusphinx.php , http://marf.sourceforge.net/ jpr: btimothy, sreeves: are you still interested in PackageKit? jpr: and taking that work on? sreeves: jpr: yes munkii: someone should be assigned to get this into buildservice for opensuse 11 jpr: munkii: how about you :-) btimothy: jpr: yeah, but hesitant. looks to be very opinionated, but maybe that's a good thing. :) munkii: jpr: i don't package psp250: jpr: always count me as "optional" help, it depends on my schedule jpr: psp250: ok jpr: is anyone else interested in pulseaudio work? munkii: but it's along way 'til OS 11, who knows =) jpr: a big chunk is getting stuff packaged jpr: and then simply testing psp250: jpr: i can help with pulseaudio (implement, test) but don't take me as a maintainer or anything similar jpr: psp250: that would be great rodrigo: I can help in all the packaging issues btimothy: jpr: i'd be interested in that (pulseaudio) maybe just to keep an eye on it/test bradya: jpr: I will look at PackageKit for research, see how it hurts or helps for desktop virtualization jpr: bradya: ok dliang: jpr:I like PackageKit cyberorg: i would start using pulseaudio for kiwi-ltsp soon jpr: ok it seems like bradya, btimothy, dliang can form up on packagekit munkii: jpr: could we put these 3 projects to the test, and figure out which one is actually right for us, i might work on getting it into buildservice later *mw can look into packaging the speech recog stuff jpr: cyberorg: are you interested only in the core btimothy: jpr: and sreeves, yeah :) jpr: oh yes :-) jpr: federico1: how about international clock? its working with Matthias upstream cyberorg: jpr, i would do the compat mode, easy mode :) jpr: federico1: and vincent to replace the clock module jpr: federico1: hand off from calvin jpr: cyberorg: i meant are you interested in the applets, the gstreamer plugins, etc jpr: cyberorg: because perhaps you, psp250 and rodrigo could combine on that one cyberorg: jpr, eventually i would be using everything, if there is anything to test I would be happy to jpr: ok jpr: and last but not least compiz as default jpr: cyberorg: i believe you've done some work on this already? cyberorg: i have had pulse audio packages in home:cyberorg for almost a year now, gave it a try, will start using it again jpr: cool jpr: 0.9.7 is also in factory now jpr: with a lot of post 0.9.6 improvements cyberorg: dont know much about it though, except may be how to start the pulse audio server federico1: jpr: hmm, I don't know what's going on upstream with the clock. jpr: federico1: vincent will take it in darix: https://users.opensuse.org - first come first serve jpr: federico1: calvin can give you details jpr: darix: thanks (in our meeting!) jpr: so jpr: to wrap up this initial discussion federico1: jpr: neat! jpr: 1) add one/two point ideas to to http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Ideas/11.0 munkii: mw, see if this article can get you anywhere --> http://www.linux.com/articles/41723 jpr: 2) We've formed some small teams to kick start things jpr: I will write up something on/under http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Ideas/11.0 darix: oh darix: sorry jpr: listing the rough team members so we don't forget jpr: and jpr: AI: JP add features to task list jpr: AI: JP to list teams for feature creation jpr: any other comments on this? sreeves: jpr: the one big item we did not hit was printing sreeves: are we doing anything on this jpr: ah printing sreeves: or is this upstream work we are going to pull in insert-name-her1: How about re-design ideas listed in the Ideas-list jpr: ok, good point insert-name-her1: main-menu insert-name-her1: AsusTek's 'launcher' mw: munkii: i'll have a look at it jpr: insert-name-her1: its on the list - federico can you follow up with jimmyk about forming some work around the menu? captain_magnus: jpr: Only comment is that we need to revisit the list frequently and try to cover all the areas :-) fxrsliberty: could I ask a question? jpr: sreeves: so chris rivera looked at this captain_magnus: fxrsliberty: Ask federico1: jpr: sure jpr: fxrsliberty: if its about features for 11.0, it not there will be a Q&A section in a bit munkii: mw: thanks =) jpr: sreeves: lets add printing to the not sure yet list jpr: but as something to possibly tackle early munkii: i'll give it a spin next week too fxrsliberty: Gents, I am in need of some expansion of the "desktop profile editor" to include the ability to exclude the application browser for the EDU-cd is this possible jpr: anything else? jpr: fxrsliberty: ah, good news - you should take to federico1 after the meeting jpr: fxrsliberty: he is the upstream maintainer fxrsliberty: ok jpr: ok, thanks all psp250: jpr: device icons, possible to poke some ppl upstream to speed up things? jpr: we'll be talking more on 11.0 in the weeks to come! bradya: jpr, I would like to add simple backup and restore to the features list. I've been testing TimeMachine on the Mac and this utility just rocks, especially for the average joe user. I've looked a little into Dirvish and with some cleanup and a nice simple application to drive it, maybe jpr: psp250: yes, definitely captain_magnus: bradya: It's a wiki... Add it :-) jpr: bradya: please add - perhaps reference the slashdot article on something similar insert-name-her1: Very good! *psp250 so impatient (small change, huge visible impact on desktop) ;D

Started at --> 19:34:23 rodrigo: bradya: there's a backup tool in yast, shouldn't we try to work on thatr one? jpr: psp250: agreed jpr: ok mtgordon: OK, so.... jpr: time to move on jpr: go mtgordon munkii: bradya: it requires a massive amount of storage i think mtgordon: Things went very well last Friday. mtgordon: Went from ~140 old bugs to ~55 munkii: we cannot be sure everyone has that mtgordon: I'd call it a success. mtgordon: So this leaves us with two obvious questions: mtgordon: 1) What are we going to tackle next? mtgordon: 2) When are we going to do it? mtgordon: Proposed things to tackle next include (but are not limited to): mtgordon: - the rest of the old 10.1 and older bugs. mtgordon: - 10.2 ivanz: how many are the 10.2 mtgordon: - bugs previously resolved LATER to determine whether they've been fixed upstream. mtgordon: 160ish mw: mtgordon: how many bugs are there in each category? mtgordon: 10.1 and older: 50ish btimothy: if we don't complete the 10.1 squash, who will do it and will it get done? ;) mtgordon: 10.2: 160ish rodrigo: I vote for finishing the <= 10.1 bugs, then 10.2 and then 10.3... jpr: i think we are down to 37 bugs for 10.1 now mtgordon: Two arguments behind delaying the 10.1 bugs sreeves: the majority of the 10.1 bugs are evolution sreeves: so we need a lot of evo dudes on federico1: mtgordon: if you find stuff from 10.2 that still happens in 10.3, can you please add "opensuse-10.2, opensuse-10.3" to the status whiteboard? jpr: a couple of them we have to actually look at fixing mtgordon: 1) Give people enough of a chance to handle NEEDINFOs. federico1: mtgordon: we want to pay special attention to those mtgordon: 2) Give the Evo team its own chance to work in their bugs, which are the majority of those remaining jpr: federico1: thats already tracked jpr: federico1: in the impact field, we set the original OS jpr: federico1: so you can tell where it came from already ivanz: jpr: I won't take anything for now as I do not know how much time I will have in the next week federico1: jpr: oh, ok - I didn't know that munkii: being stuck in one distro bugs, could become draining, me thinks ivanz: *weeks btimothy: mtgordon: so what abt. the rest of the 10.1 bugs that aren't evo-related and haven't been looked at? munkii: we should move on to 10.2/3 ivanz: If I come up with something I will notify you federico1: jpr: so you set that, and then move the bug to the 10.3 product? jpr: ivanz: ok jpr: federico1: usually move it to 11.0, but yes mtgordon: I'm not making recommendations. I'm just laying out arguments for/against. jpr: i would vote for 10.2 federico1: jpr: ok - so I'll changethe Bugs page to note that jpr: a lot more bang for our buck mtgordon: We could put the 10.1 bugs on the back burner and handle them in a future bug day. jpr: and then maybe a clean up squash mtgordon: The other question is when we're going to have the next one. jpr: for remaining 10.1, 10.2 and NOREPSONSE btimothy: i would think a quick 10.1 and then move right on to 10.2 would be good too btimothy: all on the same day rodrigo: yes, sounds good jpr: i'd go for that btimothy: ...and leave the evo bugs for that team jpr: ivanz, psp250, munkii all you other rockstar bug squashers - thoughts? munkii: +1 for 10.2 ivanz: well all 10.1 bugs are evo ivanz: so I say lets move on to 10.2 ivanz: +1 for 10.2 jpr: mtgordon: i would vote for some sort of regularity - every 2 weeks for now? at least until we catch up a bit mtgordon: I was thinking that tomorrow is insufficient notice. rodrigo: and after we catch up, once a month would be good jpr: the 16th would be two weeks right? btimothy: is there any way we could hold it on a day other than friday? would we get more people if it weren't on a friday (that's my guess at least) mtgordon: So if we like Fridays (we like Fridays?), that would make next week the first candidate. mtgordon: 16th, yes jpr: btimothy's suggestion is good for an experiment rodrigo: Wednesdays might be better, everyone is at work :) btimothy: ivanz, psp250, munkii: would a mid-week day work better/worse for you? munkii: best actually ivanz: midweek is okay yes mtgordon: So would we be looking at Wednesday of next week? mtgordon: 14th? btimothy: +21 *psp250 drops in whenever he is able to, no preference btimothy: + btimothy: +1 (sorry can't type) *rodrigo agrees jpr: +1 mw: +1 mtgordon: OK, so we're looking at 10.2 bugs on the 14th. mtgordon: Similar query to last time. jpr: mtgordon: anything else? munkii: we get the point, let's move on mtgordon: Wiki page will be loaded with a link to the query. mtgordon: I think we're set. jpr: great

Started at --> 19:45:56 jpr: federico1, rodrigo short and sweet please - lets discuss next meeting when to switch over to working off the plan priority wise rodrigo: go federico1 jpr: so a status on the tagging would be good rodrigo: we have been tagging more bugs rodrigo: and we've added a gnome-performance tag rodrigo: wiki page contains the new queries for the new tag federico1: yeah, a bunch of bugs are tagged now (between 1/3 and 1/2 of all the bugs) for 10.3 federico1: we still lack tags for 10.2 and 11.0 jpr: would it make sense to not tag 10.2 until after the next bug day? federico1: the idea is that once the bugs are tagged, we'll revise the severities/priorities within each category, and then work in that order. rodrigo: I have tagged a few 10.2 federico1: jpr: yeah... it's not going to happen anyway until 10.3 is done :) jpr: ok jpr: questions for federico1 and rodrigo? jpr: volunteers to help the tagging? jpr: munkii: you aren't a packager - maybe you're a tagger? :-) rodrigo: apart from volunteers, we really need people to tag the bugs as they file them suseROCKS: After things settle down a bit for me over the next week, I'll volunteer to search and tag gnome-accessibility bugs munkii: ok, count me in, but i won't be that active since i have some college stuff to do jpr: suseROCKS: awesome, thank you rodrigo: suseROCKS: great! suseROCKS: And I'll waive my usual fee :-) jpr: hehe federico1: for people not familiar with the tagging, it is described in http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Bugs jpr: ok, anything else on this? jpr: ok jpr: great federico1: jpr: It would be nice to start collecting more bug topics, like the multiscren / file chooser / fonts ones

Started at --> 19:50:34 jpr has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress - Meeting theme for Nov 22 (jpr) | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/20071108 | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME jpr: federico1: ok - i think that might be worthwhile after all bugs are squashed and we get a sense of the overall trends jpr: so jpr: themes jpr: we tried it once for bluetooth went very well jpr: btimothy gave me an idea earlier munkii: voice recognition ftw \o/ jpr: maybe we could invite either the X team jpr: on the topic of projectors jpr: and the new X stuff jpr: or have tambet discuss NM 0.7 btimothy: either one of those would be cool :) jpr: or someone talk about the driver project jpr: if we can't do all the heavy lifting ourselves mw: i'd be more interested in learning about what's new in networkmanagerland psp250: ^^ +1 jpr: at least we can find out whats planned jpr: and if we need to do any integration work jpr: tambet: what do you say? :-) btimothy: nm +1 jpr: (if you're around) captain_magnus: nm +1 jpr: btimothy: be aware NM generally doesn't extended to the drivers btimothy: right suseROCKS: the 22nd is Thanksgiving in the US... you may h ave trouble with attendance jpr: but maybe we can double team with joachim gleissner jpr: who is our wireless driver guru jpr: suseROCKS: hrm jpr: suseROCKS: well tambet i can organize more quickly (i hope) btimothy: thanksgiving. i'm hungry now :) sreeves: ah yes, thanksgiving is bad jpr: so the 15th then? mw: sreeves: thanksgiving is delicious jpr: ok jpr: done on theme sreeves: s/bad/great for food - bad for meeting *jpr hands it over to the task master

Started at --> 19:54:57 jpr has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress - Task Review (btimothy) | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/20071108 | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME btimothy: well, not much to say this time. btimothy: i'd recommend if you haven't looked this week at the tasks page (http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Tasks) captain_magnus: The GNOME Live CD has been available for a while... btimothy: ...that you do it now btimothy: and update anything that has your name on it! captain_magnus: sreeves: rodrigo, bradya... :-) sreeves: just finished testing the Live CD in vmware and it works great rodrigo: btimothy: what do we do with the recently completed tasks? munkii: i'd like us to discuss ambiguous tasks btimothy: and preferably the day before/morning of this meeting sreeves: I will move it to done tasks btimothy: rodrigo: we need to drop them eventually bradya: sreeves: yes, thumbs up on Live CD rodrigo: captain_magnus: yeah, saw your message last night, will download the new live CD now :) btimothy: i was going to reorganize the page, but was working on bugfixing and didn't get around to it captain_magnus: sreeves: So nothing we need to change (add missing packages etc)? munkii: especially the iCal task btimothy: you'll notice i set an ETA for that by next Thurs. rodrigo: btimothy: I mean, in the future, what/when do we remove them? rodrigo: if not, the list gets huge btimothy: rodrigo: no idea? suggestions? btimothy: do we need to keep them around as an archive? rodrigo: don't know, maybe add a completion date, and remove the ones older than a week? jpr: i'd say a month rodrigo: well, yeah, we might want an archive, not sure btimothy: i can imagine that some of them might be useful for people to look at jpr: yah jpr: true btimothy: i guess we could just make a GNOME/Tasks/Archive and move them off after a month jpr: i show them off to my boss :-) captain_magnus: We could move them to an archive... I'd like to keep them almost forever... btimothy: that way people can always see them jpr: +1 for archive btimothy: AI: btimothy -> make tasks archive page munkii: what about iCal people? i need to review our tasks every time i open evo rodrigo: btimothy: for an archive, we might need to categorize the tasks captain_magnus: munkii: It's up for grabs :-) btimothy: jpr: anything you want to say abt. feature process? btimothy: i notice it still doesn't have any sort of ETA jpr: no, still blocked jpr: they made some progress internally last week jpr: haven't heard more btimothy: jpr: will you update that on the tasks page so we know next time? jpr: sure btimothy: thanks captain_magnus: jpr: It's blocked on some presentation by Klaas... captain_magnus: Was in the last project meeting btimothy: i'll send out a reminder next week on wed to remind everyone to update their ETA on theTAsks btimothy: mtgordon: i think you can move the bugsquashing off the list munkii: captain_magnus: where? and is it up to do date with the wiki tasks list? mtgordon: btimothy: OK btimothy: munkii: looks like you have an overdue item too that oculd use some updating btimothy: mw: spec file sample? btimothy: done with posting a library? mw: 1/2 done mw: that part isn't btimothy: mw: k, please readjust ETA captain_magnus: munkii: It is.. In "Tasks up for grabs", the last item munkii: btimothy: it can't help when i don't really know what i am suppose to do =P jpr: drop the item then mw: mkay btimothy: really quick... btimothy: any other suggestions on how we could make this Tasks page more effective? btimothy: with regards to organization? captain_magnus: By not using a wiki? :-) rodrigo: categories, as for the archives, might be a good idea btimothy: rodrigo: yeah, possibly btimothy: captain_magnus: and use ____ ? captain_magnus: Something that's designed for having tasks... (http://en.opensuse.org/User:MBoman#Publishing_the_GNOME.2FTasks_via_iCal) btimothy: (i think we debated this lightly in the past) munkii: captain_magnus: i know about RTM, but why is nobody taking it seriously? btimothy: AI (btimothy / captain_magnus): look at alternative to TASKS page btimothy: anything else?

Started at --> 20:04:50 jpr has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress - Q&A - Non Developer | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/20071108 | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME jpr: sweet jpr: no wiki questions these week jpr: random musings? munkii: yay Q&A jpr: aka jpr: ask you questions :-) jpr: just ask don't ask to ask captain_magnus: You mentioned bulding stuff in BS for future GNOME before moving it to Factory... captain_magnus: Will that be a separate repo or G:S or...? jpr: i see that as being separate jpr: ie someone's home project *btimothy has been using BS (home project) for building all packages before submitting to factory mw: captain_magnus: it would be in GNOME:UNSTABLE, but i've been very sidetracked munkii: what about the gtk yast improvement patch is it up any time soon? mw: oh, individual packages, never mind captain_magnus: We need to have a repo that people can add if they want to test... Can jpr: munkii: it shipped a while ago, its uncertain if we will do more for 10.3 or what exactly we will do captain_magnus: 't have it spread across multiple ones jpr: munkii: give feedback to btimothy if you have specific requests jpr: captain_magnus: that won't work for something like PackageKit becuase it might clash with other feature development btimothy: munkii: you should have seen an update btimothy: munkii: i haven't submitted anything else for yast2-gtk since jpr: captain_magnus: but it will feed into stable once its reasonable captain_magnus: jpr: Then we should probably have a page on the wiki with "Call for testing" where you guys add the new feature/repo? jpr: captain_magnus: err factory munkii: jpr: gtk yast installer still lacks alot of features jpr: yes or a mail to the list jpr: or in the feature tool munkii: btimothy: just tell me where to look jpr: but yes jpr: somewhere btimothy: munkii: the regular opensuse 10.3 update channel btimothy: munkii: just like all other updates/patches munkii: btimothy: i meant "to look" for features? jpr: other questions? btimothy: munkii: not sure what you mean jpr: munkii: lets take it post meeting

Started at --> 20:09:49 munkii: i mean what has been improved exactly jpr: Moving to the developer section jpr: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Submitting_Bugs jpr: got a lot better already this week jpr: but there is still lots we could add captain_magnus: Nice... jpr: like for NetworkManager jpr: gnome-screensaver jpr: for instance munkii: jpr: what about bug submitting? munkii: ah btimothy: - Include patches from SVN head to fix various package selector bugs. Included are fixes for bugzilla.novell.com bugs: 300390 300750, 300737, 330235, 330467, 336124. jpr: gstreamer apps can dump gstreamer output jpr: evolution has a load of debug stuff munkii: me likes jpr: so remember to update that for any apps you can think of jpr: it only helps solve problems faster and with less hassle jpr: mtgordon: anything to add? mtgordon: It would be good for this page to be discussed more in channel. mtgordon: Outside of meetings. jpr: ok mtgordon: "How do I debug this?" is a frequent enough topic. captain_magnus: Perhaps add something that it'd be nice for you guys if the debug package is installed when doing the gdb stuff? munkii: jpr, we need a more organized /GNOME page, people can't find anything there unless they know it is actually there mtgordon: So we should keep that in mind outside the meeting. mtgordon: captain_magnus: That's already mentioned, at the top. jpr: munkii: see btimothy's tasks - if you have suggestions, I'm sure he'd welcome them mtgordon: Nothing else to add. jpr: munkii: "make gnome more visible in opensuse wiki" jpr: ok captain_magnus: mtgordon: Oh, ok... Skipped everything above the "Content" :-)

Started at --> 19:00:07 jpr has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress - Wishlist Packaging (maw and Riggwelter) | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/20071108 | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME jpr: i kind of sprung this on mw mw: like everything else jpr: mw: but i was hoping we could use this as a spring board for a packaging day btimothy: munkii: i'd love help with exposing GNOME/ jpr: and/or packaging clinic jpr: mw: but we can punt it if you want to next week mw: ok, so if we held a packaging day, who would be interested in attending? munkii: jpr: i'll work on a new wiki design for /GNOME somewhere under user:munkii mw: and what would you expect to happen / to learn / to etc? jpr: munkii: btimothy is in charge of the design currently, so bounce it off him please suseROCKS: I'd definitely go to a packaging day if it is about learning how to package stuff into rpms rodrigo: a packaging days sounds great munkii: btimothy: exposing it how? after all we can't edit the front page after all, or can we? jpr: i liked this jpr: http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Packaging/Cookbook captain_magnus: mw: I'd be interested... And I would like to learn how to package :-) (Say I have something I can build with ./configure, make... How to I package it?) rodrigo: we could use it for fixing G:C packages apart from new packages jpr: something like that and then help people with the vagaries of real packages on a day munkii: s/after all// jpr: would be great mw: yeah mw: it would be cool to break up the wishlist mw: "everyone, take 2 packages and let's see where you get with them" or something captain_magnus: mw: +1 rodrigo: yeah +1 also jpr: +1 munkii: +1 from me too btimothy: do i smell a wishlist day (similar to bugsquash day)? ;) suseROCKS: +1 from me too (assuming this is how we vote?) munkii: suseROCKS: apparently =) munkii: democracy fails every where else though munkii: =P suseROCKS: I think a wishlist day would bomb. I'd suggest a wishlist Hour or whatever in specific categories captain_magnus: Mondays: Wishlist day, Wednesdays: Bugsquash: Thursdays: Meeting: Fridays: New in 11.0... We got 3 days unaccounted for :-) jpr: suseROCKS: oh? how come? fxrsliberty: Could I ask that some of you put a little time into qualifying the gnome packages in the EDU/Desktop repo? jpr: wishlist day probably needs to happen like 1/per month if that mw: any suggestions for when? suseROCKS: I just think it would be hard to keep track as people have so many creative ideas out there jpr: fxrsliberty: are they packages not in 10.3? fxrsliberty: some jpr: fxrsliberty: should we look at moving them in for 11.0? munkii: suseROCKS: it's more of a "packaging" day suseROCKS: ok jpr: fxrsliberty: i'd be interested in helping with that captain_magnus: mw: I want to suggest sometime on the weekend (thanks to my timezone) but I'd probably be the only one :-/ fxrsliberty: well, you could drop them and maintain them in the desktop repo jpr: mw: maybe space it out a bit - in a couple of weeks? fxrsliberty: TY JPR maw: mw is very lagged jpr: hehe jpr: mw: probably don't need an exact date today maw: (i thought i was getting the silent treatment...) jpr: maw: you'll come up with a plan? maw: yeah jpr: for next week's meeitng? maw: yep jpr: ok, cool jpr: last agenda item

Started at --> 20:14:06 jpr: any other development questions? munkii: about slab.. jpr: (all those participating in the new feature projects i assume you are on #opensuse-gnome) jpr: err jpr: opensuse-gnome@ jpr: i will mail some details and links there munkii: will we see anything new in 10.3 munkii: ? jpr: one bug fix jpr: that i know of jpr: but thats probably it jpr: although something will probably go to G:S jpr: for 10.3 jpr: other Q's? munkii: yes.. fxrsliberty: Any chance we are gonna see some app browser enhancement? munkii: any plans to make a gtk installer for 11.0 considering that we have a gtk yast now jpr: fxrsliberty: talk to sreeves jpr: munkii: undecided, at least for the live installer probably jpr: (it just had a few bugs this time so it was skipped) jpr: maintaining 2 installers seems like a pain though captain_magnus: snorp: Didn't you have something for a live installer? snorp: captain_magnus: yeah munkii: same as maintaining to yasts =) munkii: two* jpr: not quite, the installer crops up extra problems captain_magnus: snorp: Fully working or need work? munkii: ah, i see snorp: captain_magnus: needed lots of work snorp: captain_magnus: yast does a lot of setup in a normal install snorp: captain_magnus: like HW detection

jpr: any others questions? munkii: i'm fine Meeting ended at --> 20-26-31