Meetings/Community Meeting 2006-12-16/transcript

From openSUSE

18:03 -!- benJIman changed the topic of #opensuse-community to: Welcome to the openSUSE community meeting. http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/Community_Meeting_2006-12-16

18:03 <@benJIman> Well let's make a start & hope the others turn up later

18:03 <@fxrsliberty> ok here

18:04 <@benJIman> Welcome everybody to the first openSUSE community IRC meeting,thanks for turning up.

18:04 <@fxrsliberty> Nice to be here!

18:04 <@benJIman> You can see the meeting aims and agenda in the link in the topic, I'll summarize for those who havn't read it yet.

18:05 <@benJIman> This meeting is primarily organised for, and run by openSUSE community members

18:06 <@benJIman> The aims of the meeting are to: - Inform (of community projects) - Encourage (further involvement) -Enable (said involvement)

18:06 <@benJIman> This meeting will be composed of two parts, first part to inform you about some existing projects, second part a brainstorming session.

18:06 <@yaloki> sorry, 5min late ^^

18:06 <@benJIman> It looks like Narayan isn't here yet, so someone else can go first.

18:07 <@benJIman> cb400f: are you ready?

18:07 <@cb400f> yup

18:07 <@benJIman> go ahead

18:07 <@cb400f> I'll briefly present the translation efforts

18:07 <@cb400f> as you all probably translation is very important for spreading Linux, usability etc.

18:08 <@cb400f> translating does not require much wrt. technical skills, tools like kdesvn, kbabel etc. make it fairly easy

18:08 <@cb400f> it's not a very big job either

18:08 <@cb400f> here are some relevant links:

18:09 < Morlark> \o/

18:09 <@cb400f> the translation portal: http://i18n.opensuse.org/

18:09 <@cb400f> translation stats: http://i18n.opensuse.org/stats/

18:09 <@cb400f> teams: http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Localization_Teams

18:09 <@cb400f> localization guide distro: http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Localization_Guide

18:10 <@cb400f> localization guide wiki: http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Wiki_Translation_Guide

18:10 <@cb400f> mailing list: opensuse-translation@opensuse.org

18:10 <@cb400f> irc channel: #opensuse-translation@irc.freenode.org

18:11 < jdanield> it's not a very big job either - what an error!

18:11 <@cb400f> that's about it for now, if anyone is interested in getting involved, don't hesitate to ask, I'm around most of the time

18:11 <@cb400f> jdanield: you can get very far with 20-30 minutes a day on average.. especially if you start early in the development cycle

18:12 <@benJIman> cb400f: are there ongoing translation projects, or is most of the activity aproaching releases?

18:12 <@cb400f> most activity is close to release, but it's not like most strings in yast modules are changed for every release

18:13 <@cb400f> so it's very possible to work on it "all year around"

18:13 <@yaloki> this is obviously a topic where community can help a *lot* -- how well (or not) does it work with upstream to merge the translations ?

18:13 <@yaloki> i.e.: does it already work well as it is or is there something we can do to "push" ?

18:14 <@cb400f> yaloki: we only translate SUSE specific strings, we don't fork KDE, GNOME and other translations.. unlike Ubuntu

18:14 <@aka_druid> cb400f, do they accept help for tier-1 langs?

18:14 < jdanield> you said inform first - will discuss howto translate in the second part

18:14 < AlbertoP> well, if I'm not wrong some languages can't be translated by users, right?

18:14 <@aka_druid> AlbertoP, I thnk the tier-1 ones

18:14 <@cb400f> aka_druid: no, good point, Novell have professional translators for tier1 languages, that means en, es, de, fr, br-pt, cz, it and more

18:14 <@benJIman> jdanield: we'll have relevant questions for each person now, more general discussion later

18:14 <@aka_druid> thats why I asked heh

18:14 <@yaloki> AlbertoP: point is, tier-1 languages are already 100% translated by Novell

18:15 < AlbertoP> yaloki, ehm...

18:15 <@cb400f> I don't think that applies to the wiki, not sure I'm afraid

18:15 <@fxrsliberty> is there some possiblity of building a "translator" service, something along the idea of the "rosetta translation service"

18:15 < AlbertoP> let's look italian ;-)

18:15 <@aka_druid> cb400f, still, thik they would accept bugfixes, cause soetimes a details slips away heh

18:15 <@cb400f> yes

18:15 <@cb400f> I think that community translations are better in many cases.. cuz the translations are done by SUSE users

18:16 < AlbertoP> many minor apps (zen too) is not fully translated in italian, so it would be useful to help

18:16 <@cb400f> AlbertoP: they don't accept help, but do accept bug reports

18:16 <@yaloki> AlbertoP: that's an interesting point because it's supposed to be fully translated AFAIK

18:16 <@yaloki> ok, so they don't accept help _yet_

18:16 < rabauke> AlbertoP: They are neither in German. opensusewatcher is not either...

18:16 < AlbertoP> cb400f, hehe I did and the proper translation is still in bugzilla ;-)

18:16 <@yaloki> maybe there's something to do about it

18:16 < M3phistopl3s> i have an unrealted libary question regarding WxGTK

18:17 <@aka_druid> M3phistopl3s, well, its offtopic in here. Ask in #suse

18:17 <@yaloki> M3phistopl3s: please don't ask unrelated questions ;)

18:17 < M3phistopl3s> ok

18:17 <@benJIman> We'll brainstorm ideas later, any more specific questions related to translation for cb400f?

18:17 < metavoid> cb400f: we want to participate in official novell documentation translations, http://www.novell.com/documentation/opensuse102, is it possible to put them to svn on novell forge?

18:17 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty had a question too

18:17 <@cb400f> AlbertoP: ok, another good point. not all mistakes are caused by translators, sometimes the developers don't merge in time or correctly

18:17 <@aka_druid> cb400f, its important to people to read the translation guides, so they can tick to styles and common translations and stuff. It will give a mroe professional result

18:17 <@benJIman> metavoid: it's explained on the lists that they can't have a public SVN for the Novell documentation books, due to it being tied to their enterprise documentation, but they do accept patches

18:18 <@yaloki> one question at a time please

18:18 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty had one

18:18 <@fxrsliberty> is there some possiblity of building a "translator" service, something along the idea of the "rosetta translation service"

18:18 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: I don't know whether there are available tools for that

18:18 <@aka_druid> most people use kbabel, I guess

18:18 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: rosetta is not OSS and hence not an option

18:19 <@aka_druid> or just manually edit the file

18:19 <@yaloki> I guess fxrsliberty is more thinking about an online tool

18:19 <@yaloki> web-based

18:19 <@yaloki> right ?

18:19 <@aka_druid> yaloki, well, we can try to buy a license from canonical

18:19 <@fxrsliberty> yes

18:19 <@cb400f> fxrsliberty: I know KDE translators are working on a webinterface that's free, but it's not ready

18:19 <@fxrsliberty> i was only pointing to "rosetta" because they are well known

18:19 <@cb400f> another thing, Novell offer a helpful ressource http://www.novellglossaries.com/ login/pass for read only access is guest/guest

18:19 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: so, not yet at least

18:20 <@cb400f> more questions?

18:20 < AlbertoP> cb400f, that's nice...didn't know ^^

18:20 <@benJIman> fxrsliberty: perhaps you could go away and research anything like this existing, which could be adapted for our purposes

18:20 < Morlark> We should build our own rosetta! With esperanto! And klingon!

18:20 <@yaloki> it's not that trivial, you need something with peer review

18:21 <@yaloki> import gettext, export/merge gettext

18:21 <@fxrsliberty> some set of tools to paste test tell it "italian" and it does it

18:21 <@fxrsliberty> 's best to translate , then a human does the final

18:22 <@benJIman> Ok, we can brainstorm this further later, let's move on.

18:22 <@yaloki> maybe rather something that's based on existing, proven tools like poedit/kbabel/... coupled with SVN, but then we'd need good documentation to guide non-technical users who want to contribute (and it lacks peer review)

18:22 <@yaloki> ok

18:22 < jdanield> there are no real usable translation tools

18:22 <@benJIman> yaloki: do you want to go next?

18:22 <@yaloki> sure

18:22 <@aka_druid> whats the topic now?

18:22 <@yaloki> didn't really prepare something, but I can explain the current situation and how people can/could contribute

18:22 <@yaloki> packaging

18:22 <@yaloki> (in the scope of community)

18:23 <@yaloki> you probably already all know how things are currently, but I'll just quickly summarize

18:23 <@yaloki> Factory is a repository for the ongoing SUSE version, it has a lot more packages than what's on the final distro media

18:23 <@yaloki> problem with factory is currently that you don't have access to work on the packages, it's SUSE people only

18:24 <@yaloki> it is planned to move Factory to the openSUSE Build Service, but I don't know of any time frame yet

18:24 <@yaloki> The openSUSE Build Service is another very interesting tool where community can contribute.

18:24 <@aka_druid> yaloki, well, factory will be read only in BS too, right? or not?

18:24 <@yaloki> aka_druid: I don't know yet -- I guess the SUSE devs don't know yet either.

18:24 <@yaloki> but there's a lot to contribute through the build service

18:25 <@bill-barriere> well factory is availlable already as a build target isnt it ?

18:25 <@yaloki> you have to request an account because it's not publicly open to everyone - for obvious reasons

18:25 <@yaloki> bill-barriere: yes

18:25 <@yaloki> bill-barriere: but not working on the packages that are in factory

18:25 <@aka_druid> bill-barriere, yes, but factory is not built by the BS

18:25 <@bill-barriere> aka_druid, well it cant

18:25 <@bill-barriere> not everything work as-is in the bs

18:25 <@yaloki> Limitations of the build service are the legal problems around certain types of packages

18:26 <@yaloki> the kind of stuff that's in Packman or my repository (guru)

18:26 <@yaloki> That will remain like that, no chance of building e.g. libxine1 or other uncrippled packages in the Build Service.

18:26 <@yaloki> Which means there's still a lot of potential for repositories outside of the Build Service (such as Packman).

18:26 < vincenegri> Could the build service infrastructure be erected elsewhere?

18:27 <@yaloki> vincenegri: I can't answer that yet ^^

18:27 <@yaloki> sorry, I may not answer that yet

18:27 < vincenegri> ok ;)

18:27 < Morlark> Heheh. You said "erect"...

18:27 <@yaloki> problem is that the backend of the build service is currently proprietary

18:27 < vincenegri> aha, right

18:27 <@yaloki> the SUSE devs in germany have been pushing Novell to opensource it since quite some time

18:27 < Beineri> yaloki: currently

18:27 < rabauke> Could OpenOffice be build in the BS?

18:27 <@yaloki> there *might* be an outcome quite soon

18:28 <@yaloki> rabauke: yes

18:28 <@aka_druid> dudes, lets keep the techy details out for now

18:28 <@yaloki> *if* the backend is opensourced, there's obviously no problem for hosting it elsewhere, but that's still an open future, we have to wait and see

18:29 <@yaloki> unfortunately, the build service does not used a federalized build architecture, hence we cannot contribute hardware (build servers) as a resource

18:29 <@yaloki> OK, so, how could we contribute

18:29 < netmask> yaloki: unless it would be turned into a grid-like service :)

18:29 <@yaloki> 1) packaging: if you have good experience at building RPMs, that's the major contribution you can do

18:29 <@yaloki> netmask: yeah well, it's not ;))

18:29 <@yaloki> Problem is, packaging is a very difficult task.

18:30 <@yaloki> you need a lot of experience with compiling from sources, horrid things like GNU autofools.. erm.. autotools, etc...

18:30 <@yaloki> *and* experience with the SUSE itself, for somewhat more complex packages -- e.g. that require an init script, yast2 config files, etc...

18:30 <@yaloki> 2) testing

18:30 <@fxrsliberty> yes, I very new to this and I am struggling to catch up.

18:31 <@yaloki> testing, testing, testing and reporting bugs

18:31 <@yaloki> maybe that's something to document better

18:31 <@yaloki> but the bugzilla is there for bug reports

18:31 <@yaloki> Note that this is also valid for Packmand and my repository, as well as other community repositories outside of the build service.

18:32 <@benJIman> We can use bugzilla for those?

18:32 <@yaloki> Maybe a better infrastructure is needed for e.g. Packman (a bugzilla maybe).

18:32 <@aka_druid> yaloki, where would a newbie package go to get the jedi trainning or so?

18:32 <@yaloki> benJIman: hardly :\

18:32 <@yaloki> aka_druid: nowhere

18:32 <@yaloki> that might be an idea to jump into

18:32 <@benJIman> yaloki: just clarifying, your statement was slightly misleading

18:32 <@yaloki> it's very difficult though

18:32 <@yaloki> benJIman: ok ^^

18:32 <@yaloki> With bugzilla, I meant for packages in the Build Service

18:32 <@bill-barriere> aka_druid, he just hang round yaloki ;)

18:32 <@aka_druid> yaloki, maybe it could ahve like a qa team or addy without a forma bugzilla?

18:32 <@yaloki> (or, obviously, in Factory or the distribution)

18:33 <@yaloki> aka_druid: explain

18:33 <@aka_druid> yaloki, well, this bugzilla for packman has been a topic a little whie ago

18:33 <@yaloki> or maybe we should rather concentrate on explaining the current situation and we'll brainstorm later ;)

18:33 <@aka_druid> and I remember people werent sure if it was agood idea and stuff, or if the packagers would use it or not

18:33 <@aka_druid> ok

18:33 <@aka_druid> =X hehe

18:33 <@yaloki> yeah, depends on the packagers

18:33 <@yaloki> I'd love it but.. well... ;)

18:34 <@yaloki> So, to summarize, packaging is a very complex topic and it's not easy to become a packager, so we really have to put a lot of thinking into how we can contribute.

18:34 <@yaloki> 1) making packages

18:34 <@yaloki> 2) testing those packages (build service, packman, guru, ....) and reporting bugs

18:34 <@yaloki> Packman is open to new packagers too btw.

18:35 < netmask> yaloki: ops

18:35 <@yaloki> "ops" ?

18:35 < rabauke> yaloki: Every time I report a bug using packages from BS I am told not to report them because I use those packages on my own risk...

18:35 < netmask> sorry :)

18:35 <@yaloki> ok

18:35 < Beineri> rabauke: because they get reported against the release components in Bugzilla...

18:35 <@benJIman> rabauke: assign the bug to the maintainer

18:35 <@fxrsliberty> ther needs to be some form of package certification process

18:36 <@benJIman> yaloki: want to explain how to find out the maintainer?

18:36 <@yaloki> ok, so there's definitely a need to clarify how to report bugs against build service packages

18:36 < Beineri> rabauke: afaik someone already suggested to add a "build service" component to Novell Bugzilla?

18:36 <@aka_druid> benJIman, dont!

18:36 < apokryphos> should we ask questions now or after?

18:36 <@bill-barriere> fxrsliberty, testcase ...

18:36 <@fxrsliberty> can't think of onw

18:36 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: that's testing

18:37 < rabauke> Beineri: There are two problems. 1. If I get told to not report bugs for e.g. KDE from BS, that's not going to change, if I give them the label "BuildService" and 2. if those bugs do not get any attention, people are going to stop reporting them.

18:37 <@fxrsliberty> well , do we have the means of stress testing ?

18:38 <@yaloki> rabauke: true -- we need to clarify this

18:38 <@yaloki> ok, any particular question at this point ? anything else you'd like me to talk about ? ;) (sorry, I'm a little unprepared)

18:38 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: no

18:38 < apokryphos> one question (coming up)

18:39 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: testing the package, whether it installs/upgrades nicely, no conflicts and especially: does it work properly

18:39 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: harder part: differnciate between upstream bugs and packaging bugs

18:39 < apokryphos> I understand that there's of course a need still for packman (legal reasons), but why not have, at this point, the other 98% of packman packages in the build service?

18:39 <@benJIman> Sounds like the way bugzilla is used needs to be discussed on the packaging list and an announcement made with the results.

18:39 <@yaloki> benJIman: yes, AI

18:39 <@benJIman> yaloki: to you?

18:39 <@yaloki> ok

18:39 < rabauke> I would also like to see that there are rules for BS, e.g. do not implement any alpha/beta features in the "update" folders but only in playground. Otherwise you put people off if those packages are broken and do not get fixed because one uses them at one's own risk.

18:40 <@yaloki> apokryphos: well, I can give you my opinion about it and why I don't use the BS either

18:40 < apokryphos> sure :)

18:40 <@yaloki> IMO the BS is currently not compelling enough for end-users, no search interface, no nice UI, etc..

18:40 <@yaloki> and packman and I already have a good infrastructure in place

18:40 < Beineri> rabauke: so you want update of "Backports" from Factory only once every 8 months?

18:40 <@fxrsliberty> how about a peer review process like the kernel goes through?

18:40 <@yaloki> it's being worked on those things in the BS though

18:41 < apokryphos> so if it matures a little for the end user it's a possibility?

18:41 <@benJIman> fxrsliberty: the SUSE people are working ona trust/rating system they tell us.

18:41 < sjoos> fire911

18:41 <@yaloki> apokryphos: personally, it's a lot faster for me to build my packages with my infrastructure than to use the BS -- at least as it is now

18:41 < vincenegri> But ultimately, you would like to see the unencumbered packaman etc packages migrate to BS?

18:41 < vincenegri> ->packman

18:41 < rabauke> Beineri: no, but there are features that are tested by novell employees, these should be tested in playground.

18:41 <@yaloki> depends what the BS will look like

18:41 <@benJIman> If there are specific questions about the implementation of the build service can I suggest asking them at the status meeting next week.

18:41 < apokryphos> yaloki: Also, with regards to packman+guru. I understand you mentioned before that the reason guru packs aren't in packman is because of the huge amount of packs that would have to be moved

18:42 * aka_druid ties Beineri and rabauke

18:42 <@bill-barriere> rabauke, the buildservice IS a playground :/

18:42 <@cb400f> apokryphos: it's also nice to have a few large repos, and not many small.. for the stuff with many users

18:42 <@yaloki> apokryphos: yeah, planned since months that I migrate to packman but... awful lot of work

18:42 < apokryphos> yaloki: though, wouldn't it have been a good idea to start on a new distro (i.e. 10.2) with just packs in packman, or am I missing another techinical reason?

18:42 <@yaloki> apokryphos: long story ;)

18:42 < apokryphos> cb400f: would it necessarily have to be that way if it went into the build service?

18:43 < apokryphos> yaloki: the whole job of course is wonderful, I just think of this point when new users in a channel complain about having to add so many new sources

18:43 <@fxrsliberty> no offense to packman and guru , but the more people rely on the OpenSUSE name the more credibilty it gets

18:43 <@yaloki> apokryphos: sure

18:43 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: well, legal, we can't do anything about it

18:44 <@benJIman> Ok any more questions specifically about what yaloki said? we can come back to brainstorming for the future later.

18:44 < apokryphos> yaloki: a summary? :P

18:44 <@yaloki> not much added ^^

18:44 < rabauke> what about a repo repo? ;)

18:44 < vincenegri> lol

18:44 <@yaloki> it's really a topic we can brainstorm about though

18:44 <@yaloki> possibly developing new tools as well

18:44 <@benJIman> Ok let's move on

18:44 <@yaloki> problem is always with hosting

18:44 <@bill-barriere> ok havent prepared anything either but lets give it a shoot

18:45 <@yaloki> referencing repositories like packman or guru on opensuse.org is very problematic

18:45 < apokryphos> I see

18:45 <@yaloki> that's a permanent pain in the ...

18:45 <@bill-barriere> i have/am doing a application that can communicate with api.opensuse.org to control/ work with the buildservice.

18:45 <@bill-barriere> you can take a look at http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/Rich_Client its not really complete atm, and was laking time to really work on it latelly, but it can already connect project, package etc

18:45 <@aka_druid> bill-barriere, what type of frontend/UI?

18:45 <@bill-barriere> its in QT and use couple lib from kde

18:45 <@bill-barriere> their awsome kio mainlly ;)

18:46 <@bill-barriere> if anyone is interested about helping me dont hesitate

18:46 <@benJIman> bill-barriere: is there a public SVN/CVS?

18:46 <@bill-barriere> would need to implement local build and syncing of data back to the server

18:46 <@bill-barriere> https://forgesvn1.novell.com/viewsvn/opensuse/trunk/buildservice/src/richclient/

18:47 <@bill-barriere> and it can be found in the BS there http://software.opensuse.org/download/openSUSE:/Tools/

18:47 < cboltz> FYI: the AI for bugzilla usage is https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=229213

18:47 <@aka_druid> bill-barriere, so its alpha-ish?

18:47 * bill-barriere nod

18:48 <@aka_druid> cboltz, bugzilla for the BS, you mean?

18:48 < cboltz> yes (since it's obvious for the "official" distribution)

18:48 <@fxrsliberty> would a KDE centric app cause any problems with the gnome?

18:48 <@aka_druid> orly

18:48 <@aka_druid> ok

18:48 <@benJIman> bill-barriere: what are the use cases of the tool, for those using the build service, what will it allow users to do?

18:48 <@yaloki> bill-barriere: so _testing_ would help as well ;)

18:48 <@aka_druid> note taken

18:48 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: no

18:48 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: why would it

18:49 <@fxrsliberty> don't know , newbie question i guess

18:49 <@bill-barriere> benJIman, well it should allow user to browse project and see package quickly and stuff but currently cant be done without an account

18:49 <@aka_druid> bill-barriere, does it overlap or provide the search functionality people are asking so much for?

18:49 <@benJIman> bill-barriere: so the aim is to provide the same facilities that are available through the web interface?

18:49 <@bill-barriere> yaloki, indeed that would be great ... dont think many tested it .. so any feedback is welcome

18:50 <@bill-barriere> benJIman, yep

18:50 <@yaloki> bill-barriere: AI: call for testing on the mailing-lists ;) (especially opensuse-buildservice)

18:51 <@fxrsliberty> I work from SLED would this be an issue?

18:51 <@bill-barriere> aka_druid, well i wouldnt say overlap, those search thingy aim at full built repo and not the content of the BS itself

18:51 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: no

18:51 <@benJIman> Ok, Any more questions for bill-barriere about the build service client?

18:51 <@bill-barriere> its another thing i could add tho, benJIman make it fit in a nice like kpart am i be happy :P

18:51 <@fxrsliberty> I will give it a try!

18:52 <@benJIman> ok fxrsliberty do you want to go next?

18:52 <@fxrsliberty> i can

18:52 <@aka_druid> topic;?

18:52 <@fxrsliberty> The Education site and it's goals

18:53 <@aka_druid> k

18:53 <@fxrsliberty> I have stated that I would like to revive the SUSE Linux School Server

18:53 <@aka_druid> (its for the minutes, in case you were wondering)

18:54 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: what's specific about it as compared to e.g. openSUSE 10.2

18:54 < _Marcus_> fxrsliberty: no need.

18:54 <@fxrsliberty> The goal being a "COTS" approach to data- warehousing for education

18:54 <@yaloki> "COTS" ?

18:54 < sPiN> COTS?

18:54 <@yaloki> kotz ? ^^

18:54 <@aka_druid> custom, off the shelf

18:54 <@fxrsliberty> Common OFF the Shelf

18:55 <@aka_druid> ready to use

18:55 <@yaloki> ok

18:55 < _Marcus_> fxrsliberty: extis.de, click on Schoolserver Tab

18:56 <@yaloki> well, still, please go ahead ;)

18:56 <@fxrsliberty> the tools are out there to combine the "OSS" from Extis with a CMS, SIS , and LAS to provide full data warehousing and interoperative login

18:56 <@yaloki> what's SIS and LAS

18:56 <@aka_druid> acronym per line limit exceeded: parse error

18:57 < judas_iscariote> :)

18:57 <@yaloki> and what's an interoperative login ?

18:57 * yaloki increases fxrsliberty's verbosity level ;)

18:57 <@fxrsliberty> SIS = student information system

18:57 <@aka_druid> fxrsliberty, can you give an overview so people can undersand the system and stuff?

18:57 <@fxrsliberty> cms = course management

18:58 <@yaloki> what would be the target ? for a server, for workstations, both ?

18:59 < judas_iscariote> yaloki: this is an intereseting topic but we need a clear roadmap and tasklist to see how hard is to implement and how much time/releases will take...

18:59 <@fxrsliberty> well if the "add-on" project could provide the patterns someone could set up an entire school including LTSP from one machine

19:00 <@aka_druid> judas_iscariote, its not a release, its an add-on repository... cold easily be a repo in BS, for example

19:00 <@fxrsliberty> login to ltsp client get access to CMS and LAS

19:00 < judas_iscariote> aka_druid: yup.

19:00 < judas_iscariote> fxrsliberty: pattern selection is the easy part..

19:01 * judas_iscariote fxrsliberty -vvvv please.

19:01 <@benJIman> Can we leave technical discussion to later and let fxrsliberty finish explaining the concept please.

19:01 <@fxrsliberty> correct , the hard part is enableing all the different databases for shared data

19:01 <@fxrsliberty> i'm a little overwelmed atm

19:02 <@yaloki> well, especially, what's the work involved ? I guess it's a lot about packaging

19:02 <@fxrsliberty> yes much packageing

19:02 <@fxrsliberty> -VVVV

19:02 <@yaloki> ok

19:02 <@fxrsliberty> -vvvv

19:02 <@bill-barriere> ...

19:02 < pitux> hello... I'm a math teacher from Chile... I was review the Education project it's nice :D

19:03 <@fxrsliberty> ok ,

19:03 <@yaloki> pitux: feedback is a very important contribution as well. what you'd like to have in the project, etc... what works and what doesn't (testing)

19:03 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: what's the current infrastructure ?

19:03 <@fxrsliberty> what needs to happen would be 1. package all the parts

19:03 < judas_iscariote> fxrsliberty: can you elaborate more, dunno, write an article or a post to the mailing lists describing the whole thing pŕoperly ?

19:03 <@yaloki> I image a lot could be done on that too

19:03 <@yaloki> sorry, didn't want to interrupt. go on please ;)

19:04 <@aka_druid> judas_iscariote, there is a page in opensuse wiki

19:04 <@fxrsliberty> 2: help set a standard to communicate between them

19:04 <@cb400f> fxrsliberty: do you have a link to the page?

19:05 <@fxrsliberty> en.opensuse.org/education

19:05 <@cb400f> think you need to market the project more, announce on lists, spam Novell marketing people

19:05 < pitux> for me is very important add a lot of packages that I use in the school... for example Geogebra, Jclick and exelearning...

19:05 <@fxrsliberty> I have been chatting with David Brower and Guy Lunardi

19:06 < judas_iscariote> yes I saw that page...

19:06 < AlbertoP> I agree with cb400f :-)

19:06 <@benJIman> AI fxrsliberty to announce project to mailing lists and summarize what you could use help with?

19:06 <@fxrsliberty> I will

19:06 <@fxrsliberty> which list?

19:06 <@benJIman> -project I would suggest

19:06 <@fxrsliberty> ok

19:07 <@cb400f> fxrsliberty: -project, opensuse@.. looks like Novell could have some commercial interest in this

19:07 <@fxrsliberty> I could really use help with getting "centre" packaged

19:07 <@aka_druid> fxrsliberty, ask in -packaging heh

19:07 <@fxrsliberty> yes they could

19:07 < cboltz> do you want/need an "official" AI in bugzilla? (If so, /msg me your mail address)

19:08 <@fxrsliberty> I am not sure what I have conveyed here

19:09 <@fxrsliberty> to much all at ounce LOL

19:09 <@fxrsliberty> s/ounce/once

19:09 <@yaloki> maybe summarize how you think ppl from the community can help/contribute

19:09 <@yaloki> it's the topic/goal of this meeting after all ;)

19:09 <@fxrsliberty> ok,

19:09 < judas_iscariote> yes, and then we can discuss the gory details of the implementation...

19:09 <@aka_druid> fxrsliberty, pitux I see you guys can talk to each other... for server apps and for client apps

19:10 < sPiN> im not sure i caught what you are wanting to do fxrs, do you want and education release?

19:10 <@yaloki> sPiN: mostly explain on the wiki page

19:10 <@yaloki> sPiN: product add-on

19:10 <@yaloki> I think a repository would be a first step, once the stuff is packaged

19:10 <@yaloki> I suppose that's the primary effort/need

19:10 < sPiN> ahh got the link

19:10 <@fxrsliberty> I want an add on cd that will build something like the Extis server with more add on software

19:11 <@benJIman> Ok, and what main areas will you need community help with?

19:11 < Spongebob> hi all - little prob with 10.2 and slow Internet download ? Can I trouble u for some advice ?

19:11 <@fxrsliberty> need to build the "add-on" cd structure

19:11 <@yaloki> Spongebob: on #suse please

19:11 <@aka_druid> Spongebob, in #suse

19:11 <@yaloki> Spongebob: online meeting here

19:11 < Spongebob> OOoooo ok thanx :)

19:12 <@fxrsliberty> need to build the packages for Centre, Moodle , Koha and work on making them talk to one another thrugh some ldap schema extension

19:13 < pitux> I think that is very important the opinion from teachers..... the problem with the education/opensources projects is that the projects are very technical and the education isn't very technical

19:13 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: can they already "talk to each other" ? or would that involve software hacking ?

19:13 <@fxrsliberty> yes hacking

19:13 <@aka_druid> yaloki, I was thinking about that... software hacking, or pre-install hax?

19:13 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: ok, so, they don't talk to each other yet, right ?

19:14 <@bill-barriere> yaloki, talking teacher ? gosh what a social hack

19:14 <@fxrsliberty> Moodle speaks LDAP, koha does to I believe, Centre fdoes not

19:14 <@yaloki> hm, ok

19:14 < pitux> exists a educational distro based in suse from cataluña... call "Linkat"

19:14 <@bill-barriere> mmm

19:14 < apokryphos> interesting

19:14 <@yaloki> I think you should talk to upstream

19:14 <@yaloki> to have them at least be supportive of the effort

19:15 <@yaloki> it's probably a non negligible amount of software development

19:15 <@fxrsliberty> most offerings already available do nothing for student management or testing results

19:16 <@yaloki> ok. could you please summarize so we can take on the other topics ?

19:16 * judas_iscariote nods

19:16 <@fxrsliberty> i guess I need to be more specific on the page?

19:16 <@yaloki> you started doing so ;)

19:16 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: wouldn't harm ;)

19:16 <@yaloki> 1) packaging

19:17 <@yaloki> 2) adding hacks/patches for having LDAP backend support on centre/moodle/koha, test interoperability etc..

19:17 <@fxrsliberty> 2) add on cd and patterns to install

19:17 <@yaloki> ok, that's the trivial part ;)

19:17 <@fxrsliberty> that's it mostly

19:17 <@yaloki> ok

19:17 <@benJIman> ok

19:17 < judas_iscariote> heheh :)

19:17 <@yaloki> to summarize from my POV

19:17 <@cb400f> 3) testing and feature requests

19:17 <@yaloki> you should really broadcast the effort more on the mailing-lists

19:17 <@cb400f> 4) promotion

19:18 <@yaloki> and be a lot more specific there about what's needed, how people can help, etc...

19:18 <@yaloki> maybe add that to the wiki page

19:18 <@fxrsliberty> will do

19:18 <@benJIman> Ok, let's move on.

19:18 <@yaloki> 'k, I think we should move on to the next topic ;)

19:18 <@benJIman> nnewton has't arrived, so it's my turn

19:19 < apokryphos> sounds really good, fxrsliberty, look forwarding to seeing more about it :)

19:19 <@benJIman> I'm going to talk about package search.

19:19 <@benJIman> It is a constant problem for users locating the software they require, especially when it is spread out across many repositories.

19:20 < pitux> I think that is very important receive the opinion from the teachers around the world..:D

19:20 <@yaloki> pitux: totally

19:20 <@yaloki> pitux: get in touch with fxrsliberty ;)

19:20 <@benJIman> Webpin is something I've been experimenting with recently. You can see its current state at http://benjiweber.co.uk:8080/webpin/

19:20 <@benJIman> The idea is to allow users to search the contents of all suse repositories to locate packages & files in packages they require.

19:20 < pitux> I'm math teacher and I'm working with students and others teachers everyday in Chile

19:21 <@benJIman> pitux: can we come back to this at the end please?

19:21 <@aka_druid> pitux, k dude, hold on this topic

19:21 <@benJIman> It is still very much experimental.

19:22 <@benJIman> The project may also become largly redundant when the build service search facility becomes available, but until then it is useful to have such a thing I believe.

19:22 <@benJIman> My experiments so far have been with different ways of providing accurate search results out of about 5million files in an acceptable time frame (<1s) on a less than fast server.

19:22 < apokryphos> (also, build service probably won't be able to index packman/guru)

19:23 <@benJIman> apokryphos: indeed

19:23 <@yaloki> apokryphos: s/probably//

19:23 <@benJIman> The basic idea is trawl rpm-md repositories from a list obtained from the build service api, and manually supplied list of repositories, parse the metadata and store in a format that allows easy searching, then provide a web frontend for searching.

19:23 <@benJIman> rpm-md is the format of all the repositories in the build service, and pretty much all suse repositories at least provide this format as an option now, for those who don't know

19:24 <@benJIman> The challenge has been that it requires some things relational databases do well such as aggregation, ordering of results, priority to packages from certain repositories, etc.

19:24 <@aka_druid> and excluding -debuginfo packages heh

19:24 <@benJIman> However, exact substring queries in databases are too slow, and full text search in databases or indexing engines which is sufficiently fast is inaccurate (eg won't match karamba in superkaramba).

19:25 <@benJIman> I won't go into the more technical details here, but I have several experimental implementations, using different techniques, if anyone is interested in discussing implementation or usability suggestions please contact me.

19:25 < sPiN> benJIman, how is this indexed info stored?

19:25 <@benJIman> sPiN: the one the web interface is using at present is stored in a mysql database, this is the best compromise so far, I actually have 4 backend implementations

19:26 <@benJIman> One searching the orginal XML (slowest), one that searches plain text dump (fastest but difficult to do ranking etc), one that uses lucene indexes (slow & limited).

19:26 <@benJIman> and the database one that is currently in use

19:26 < cboltz> BTW: There's a name collision - http://hitme.resetbutton.de/pin/ from Martin Lasarsch is also named "webpin" ;-) Since it has basically the same target, maybe you could work together?

19:27 <@benJIman> That was where the idea came from, when I started working on this it hadn't been updated in about a year

19:27 < sPiN> well im not an expert and i imagine you know as much or more about mysql than i do... but if you want a 2nd opinion on anything let me know

19:27 < judas_iscariote> benJIman: I think the database is your best bet atm...

19:27 * yaloki votes for postgresql 8.2 ^^

19:28 < sPiN> i think yaloki is the man when it comes to dealing with large databases

19:28 <@benJIman> I looked at postgresql but would need combinging with other technologies to do what mysql does out of the box

19:29 <@yaloki> ok, but something to explore, pg outperforms mysql, especially on many small lookups

19:29 <@yaloki> benJIman: do you have an SVN repo ?

19:29 <@benJIman> The source isn't currently publically accessable, simply because I havn't had time to clean it into a quality suitable for it, but if anyone wants to look at it just let me know

19:29 <@yaloki> ok ^^

19:29 <@fxrsliberty> I always vote for Postgres

19:30 <@yaloki> ok

19:30 <@benJIman> So in summary its there usable now, but still in stage of experimenting to find the best way of implementing this

19:30 <@yaloki> benJIman: how can we help/contribute ?

19:30 <@yaloki> I guess coding, and finding a good hosting option

19:31 <@bill-barriere> what is it writted in ?

19:31 <@benJIman> Can use help with suggestions for both technical design of the backend and usability design of frontend

19:31 <@yaloki> bill-barriere: java

19:31 < judas_iscariote> benJIman: I think we can help., just make the source available..

19:31 * yaloki can help, it would even be fun as it's java ^^

19:31 < judas_iscariote> :)

19:31 <@benJIman> ok I'll AI myself to tidy up the source and set up an SVN repository

19:32 <@yaloki> benJIman: I can help tidying it up

19:32 < apokryphos> when the opensuse BS search is out, is there any chance of adapting that one for webpin if it turns out to be superior?

19:32 <@benJIman> The other thing anyone can help with is if anyone wants to provide somewhere fast to host it :)

19:32 <@benJIman> Any questions?

19:32 <@yaloki> apokryphos: not that easy, depends how the BS search is accessible.. possibly through a WS/XMLRPC call as for the other stuff on api.*

19:33 < sPiN> as far as hosting goes, i can provide free hosting for as much data as we need

19:33 < judas_iscariote> I don't have JSP enabled hosting.. :(

19:33 <@yaloki> apokryphos: would need to aggregate WS results and database lookup results. not impossible, but possibly not as trivial as it might sound.

19:33 <@bill-barriere> well i *will* add that feature to my soft if it make it to the api.

19:33 < apokryphos> hm, I see

19:34 < apokryphos> it would be really nice to get it looking as sexy 8), as the packman search is

19:34 <@yaloki> bill-barriere: would also require anonymous WS calls too though

19:34 <@yaloki> apokryphos: thank you ^^

19:34 < sPiN> ohhh JSP? ill have to check on that

19:34 <@yaloki> apokryphos: I wrote that one ^^

19:34 <@bill-barriere> sPiN, nah you cant ...

19:34 < apokryphos> yaloki: yeah, really really great stuff :)

19:34 <@benJIman> I've not yet even heard what the build service search api will provide

19:34 <@bill-barriere> sPiN, need a dedicated host for that

19:34 <@benJIman> whether it will even allow searching inside packages

19:34 <@yaloki> right

19:34 < cboltz> benJIman, please /msg me your mail address used in bugzilla for the AI (cleanup/release source) ;-)

19:34 < sPiN> doh :(

19:34 <@cb400f> easier to remember url would help usability a lot

19:34 <@yaloki> but searching packages would be a great feature too

19:34 < apokryphos> they did say it'd be a deep search though

19:35 <@yaloki> ok. let's close the topic for now. last words ? ;)

19:35 < sPiN> i dont see how good the performance could be.. even do search with yast if you enable description can take a few seconds

19:35 <@benJIman> cb400f: yes that's another thing, could do with a domain name

19:36 < apokryphos> would it not be a good idea to have names of the repositories instead of the full URLs?

19:36 <@yaloki> sPiN: the server side can cache, etc... lots of options to optimize

19:36 < cboltz> benJIman: AI is https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=229218

19:36 <@benJIman> sPiN: not a huge issue actually , slow thing is getting close to exact search results for the contents, descriptions are text search which can be done very fast

19:37 <@benJIman> Ok then, let's move onto the brainstorming session.

19:37 < apokryphos> cool

19:37 < cboltz> (and the "announce education project" AI is https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=229216 - sorry for being a bit late with it)

19:37 < apokryphos> would now be a good time to raise some questions about the "community" wiki?

19:37 <@benJIman> Some suggestions to kick off discussion are mentioned in the agenda, otherwise throw some ideas out, please wait for one idea to be discussed if you have a new one

19:38 < judas_iscariote> bbl

19:38 <@yaloki> I think we could brainstorm a little on what we as a community can do to help the whole thing

19:38 <@benJIman> The results can be added to the wiki to help people who want to get involved

19:38 <@benJIman> So, someone kick off.

19:39 <@yaloki> what about noob-level documentation

19:39 < sPiN> we should convince google to do it for all distros :P

19:39 <@yaloki> screenshot decorated short guides on how to do stuff, on the wiki

19:39 <@benJIman> Btw incase anyone has to rush off, the transcript and minutes will be available later.

19:40 <@benJIman> yaloki: There are legal issues

19:40 <@benJIman> Many of the most FAQ are related to issues we can't talk about on the wiki.

19:40 <@yaloki> yes, and having another off-opensuse.org wiki for that stuff

19:40 < sPiN> on the opensuse.org ?

19:40 <@benJIman> (I was referring to opensuse.org wiki there)

19:40 <@yaloki> yep

19:40 <@cb400f> I agree with yaloki, especially things related to package management, the different frontends, what are repos, how to add them and such

19:41 <@yaloki> and.. umm, just to pick up something that was shortly mentioned an hour ago -- an online RPM packaging class ? ;)

19:41 <@fxrsliberty> how about this for a topic: implementing multimedia usability

19:41 <@yaloki> cb400f: yep

19:41 <@cb400f> actually stumbled across a howto on there referring to packman and mplayer

19:41 < sPiN> well i will continue to post my articles to my site to maintain the level of editoral control that i like

19:41 < apokryphos> I think we need to sort out the way we have our documentation

19:41 < sPiN> but i do like the idea of a wiki with acl's

19:42 < apokryphos> having multiple locations of documentation is confusing to the user

19:42 <@yaloki> indeed

19:42 <@bill-barriere> http://forgeftp.novell.com/lu4d/lu4d_ldt_build.htm

19:42 < apokryphos> everything should either be (i) on opensuse.org, or (ii) the community wiki.

19:42 <@yaloki> bill-barriere: interesting, I'll have a look

19:42 < sPiN> apokryphos, certainly

19:42 <@benJIman> apokryphos: the question is which community wiki

19:42 < apokryphos> thing is, the community wiki needs a big re-organisation. I mentioned the thought of having it organised into suse versions

19:42 <@yaloki> what is the community wiki

19:42 < apokryphos> http://susewiki.apanela.com/

19:42 < apokryphos> or we can centralise on another

19:43 <@yaloki> someone here from sweden?

19:43 < vincenegri> Bottom line is surely that the new user has to be able to find out about multimedia issues, even if the official wiki has to allude to the community wiki

19:43 <@yaloki> let's take opensu.se ^^

19:43 < apokryphos> hehe

19:43 <@fxrsliberty> how does the "board" at opensuse feel about adopting only one media player and enabling all legal forms of file extension

19:43 <@benJIman> yaloki: are you offering to buy it? :p

19:43 <@yaloki> ;)

19:43 < sPiN> since we are talkin about it, \

19:43 < apokryphos> the reason I think we need to organise it into suse versions is because a lot of the major things have changed

19:43 <@yaloki> apokryphos: right

19:43 <@bill-barriere> heh we also need to sell lizard plush :P

19:43 < apokryphos> no installation_sources in > 10.1

19:44 <@benJIman> apokryphos: it's back in 10.2

19:44 <@bill-barriere> got susegear.com rotting in a parking

19:44 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: only over my cold body

19:44 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: ;)

19:44 < apokryphos> hah, so I see 8)

19:44 < apokryphos> still, repository entries etc

19:44 < apokryphos> I don't think we need to have *that* much on the "extra" community wiki, so upgrading things for the new suse version shouldn't be too hard

19:44 <@benJIman> vincenegri: yes

19:44 <@fxrsliberty> yaloki: what if it's mplayer?

19:45 < apokryphos> particularly since it'll only be every 8 months

19:45 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: amarok is way better for audio

19:45 < sPiN> well you would be able to just copy paste the old one and edit where necessary

19:45 < apokryphos> exactly

19:45 <@benJIman> Let's not get into discussing the relative merits of media players please

19:45 <@yaloki> I think the major issue is to decide upon *one* community wiki

19:45 <@benJIman> yaloki: indeed

19:45 < apokryphos> yaloki: right

19:45 <@yaloki> stopping the spread across n sites and wikis and stuff

19:45 < vincenegri> yaloki: agreed

19:45 < sPiN> i agree with apokryphos, it should be separated by version, however... i do not know that i would like it to be separated at the top level for this

19:46 < apokryphos> maybe we should use the same actual wiki software as opensuse.org, too

19:46 < vincenegri> and then make it clear to a noob how to find it

19:46 < apokryphos> yeah

19:46 < apokryphos> vincenegri: we can edit factoid entries etc to comply

19:46 < sPiN> i think maybe each page should have a version heading

19:46 <@fxrsliberty> isn't this the goal of the documentation link on the home page?

19:46 <@cb400f> I vote for using opensuse.org for as much as possible, and using a community wiki for only the stuff with legal issues

19:46 < vincenegri> perhaps a first time wizard can detect you are in EU or something ;)

19:46 <@yaloki> we could ask if a link can be added on opensuse.org -- will need novell to clear up legal stuff

19:46 < sPiN> apokryphos, i really like dokuwiki more than mediawiki

19:46 < apokryphos> fxrsliberty: yes, but not all documentation can be put on opensuse.org -- that's the problem

19:47 < apokryphos> sPiN: still, for consistency I think it's better to use opensuse.org's

19:47 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: you may not mention stuff like packman or guru on opensuse.org

19:47 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: for legal reasons

19:47 < sPiN> apokryphos, good point

19:47 <@fxrsliberty> oo

19:47 <@fxrsliberty> ty

19:47 <@yaloki> but maybe a single link is possible, "novell is not responsible for the content" etc...

19:47 < apokryphos> yeah

19:48 <@yaloki> once we've got something going on at a larger scale on the community wiki, we can address that

19:48 < apokryphos> even though it's a shame how all other distros do it/get away with it :P

19:48 <@benJIman> So coming back to where to put this, are we going to need to set up a newwiki, or are we going to go for trying to utilize an existing one?

19:48 <@fxrsliberty> If there are legal reason for exempting topics, then work towards eliminating them with fully legal solutions

19:48 < apokryphos> ok, so what are the wiki candidates?

19:48 < apokryphos> http://susewiki.apanela.com/

19:48 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: impossible

19:48 < apokryphos> any others?

19:48 <@yaloki> uhm, there are

19:48 <@benJIman> susewiki.org

19:48 <@yaloki> right

19:49 < apokryphos> what's suseroot.com?

19:49 < sPiN> yea who does susewiki.org? anyone know?

19:49 < Beineri> http://wiki.suselinuxsupport.de/

19:49 <@benJIman> apokryphos: looks like it's run by houghi

19:50 < apokryphos> I see

19:50 <@yaloki> susewiki.org seems almost defunct

19:50 <@yaloki> and none of us have contacts with the owner

19:50 <@yaloki> so it's not a candidate, except if we can get in touch with him

19:50 < apokryphos> dang

19:50 < sPiN> i liked yaloki's opensu.se idea

19:50 <@benJIman> Ok so, we have several disparate unofficial wikis, Should we work towards getting the communities arround each to organise arround a new wiki?

19:51 <@fxrsliberty> why not opensusewiki.org

19:51 <@yaloki> just 2 things I don't like about susewiki.apanela.com: 1) the domain name, 2) the wiki software (but that's not that much of an issue ;)))

19:51 < apokryphos> yeah

19:51 <@yaloki> question is: hosting

19:51 < apokryphos> I think we can get a friendlier domain name

19:51 < sPiN> i got hosting covered

19:51 < apokryphos> and I think we really should use mediawiki

19:51 <@yaloki> do we really have the option of finding a good/other hosting option ?

19:51 < apokryphos> for consistency

19:51 * yaloki votes for mediawiki too ;)

19:51 <@fxrsliberty> i'm in

19:51 <@benJIman> sPiN: you can host mediawiki? it has some requirements

19:51 * vincenegri seconds that

19:52 <@benJIman> docuwiki will run on nearly anything

19:52 < sPiN> certainly benJIman

19:52 <@benJIman> excellent

19:52 < sPiN> infact i can install it with 1 click

19:52 <@yaloki> ok

19:52 <@benJIman> So how shall we go about this?

19:52 <@yaloki> let's assume hosting is fine

19:52 < apokryphos> cool. So other wikis (if we have rights to them), should always point to this new one

19:52 <@yaloki> what about the domain name ?

19:52 <@benJIman> Discussion on lists & attempt to contact authors of aforementioned pages?

19:52 < sPiN> godaddy.com

19:52 <@yaloki> I mean, we could use a paypal

19:52 < vincenegri> opensuse-community.org?

19:52 < apokryphos> I like that

19:52 <@yaloki> vincenegri: that sounds pretty good to me

19:53 <@fxrsliberty> me too

19:53 <@yaloki> opensu.se is the coolest IMO but involves a lot of issues ;))

19:53 < apokryphos> I think we should have opensuse, instead of just suse

19:53 <@yaloki> yep

19:53 <@yaloki> opensuse-community.org sounds perfect to me

19:53 < apokryphos> cool. All in favour?

19:53 <@benJIman> Do we have a guarantee from Novell that they wouldn't enforce their trademark against a community wiki domain name?

19:53 < sPiN> i liked fxrsliberty suggestion of opensusewiki.org

19:53 <@yaloki> benJIman: no, but true, we have to address that

19:53 < vincenegri> benJIman: good point

19:54 <@yaloki> sPiN: maybe it won't be just a wiki

19:54 <@benJIman> I doubt it would be an issue, but would be worth getting that in writing beforehand

19:54 <@yaloki> sPiN: if it involves into something else... ;)

19:54 < sPiN> benJIman, that would be a terrible move, they would never do that

19:54 <@yaloki> benJIman: 100% ACK

19:54 <@yaloki> sPiN: sure, but has to be ack'ed by them

19:54 <@benJIman> hmm I guess it might be unlikely that they'd give up the right to enforce it, even over a specific site

19:55 < apokryphos> yeah

19:55 < vincenegri> I would suggest formally notifying that the name is going to be used

19:55 < apokryphos> I think we should just set it up and see how it goes

19:55 < vincenegri> and giving them the chance to object

19:55 <@yaloki> vincenegri: right

19:55 < sPiN> i suggest buying it before they do ;P

19:55 < vincenegri> that would at least create an estoppel-ish situation

19:55 < apokryphos> someone needs to delegate responsibilities now =)

19:55 < sPiN> i think we can come up with 8 bucks between us

19:55 < vincenegri> sPiN: or MS does ;)

19:55 <@benJIman> How will the wiki be run?

19:56 <@benJIman> I mean will we have free-for-all? I would rather some sort of meritocracy

19:56 <@yaloki> yep

19:56 <@benJIman> to maintain quality levels

19:56 < sPiN> i think they way we discussed it before... moderated

19:56 < vincenegri> agreed

19:56 < apokryphos> right

19:56 <@yaloki> definitely moderated

19:56 < sPiN> benJIman, yes definitely

19:56 < vincenegri> you don't want a nutter like me on the loose ;)

19:56 <@benJIman> But it should be made clear we want to include those involved with the other wikis

19:56 <@benJIman> when we announce the plan

19:56 <@yaloki> yep

19:57 <@benJIman> Ok so we need some AIs, someone to announce plan to the list and try and contact the authors of the mentioned wikis

19:57 < apokryphos> idea for the look: steal opensuse.org's theme and make it blue :P

19:57 <@cb400f> green!

19:57 <@yaloki> "our blood is green" ;)

19:57 < AlbertoP> ^^

19:57 < apokryphos> it can't look *exactly* the same as opensuse.org :P

19:57 <@bill-barriere> green !

19:57 < apokryphos> and they've got a lot of nice styles to build off

19:57 <@cb400f> idea for the look: steal opensuse.org's theme and make it greener

19:57 <@benJIman> sPiN has kindly agreed to provide hosting

19:57 < apokryphos> hehe

19:57 <@yaloki> we should also ask ACK to use the logo

19:58 < apokryphos> cool

19:58 < apokryphos> sPiN: will you set up the domain name as well?

19:58 <@benJIman> and someone to look at getting a domain name, and getting donations for that if neccessary

19:58 < vincenegri> cb400f: racing green>

19:58 <@benJIman> so, volunteers?

19:58 <@cb400f> hehe, another good idea

19:58 < apokryphos> I can set up the domain name if need be

19:58 < vincenegri> I'm happy to chip in for fees

19:58 * yaloki votes for "greener than red" for the motto ^^

19:58 < sPiN> well it needs to be registered to an individual

19:59 <@benJIman> ok AI apokryphos to investigate getting an appropriate domain name

19:59 < sPiN> and i suggest we get private registration

19:59 < apokryphos> any preferred domain registrar, otherwise I'll go with godaddy, just because I have other domains there

19:59 <@benJIman> Who is going to start discussion on list, and contact wiki owners?

19:59 < sPiN> https://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/registrar/search.asp?se=%2B&ci=164

20:00 < sPiN> $7.50

20:00 < apokryphos> no problem

20:00 <@benJIman> I would rather someone else do this, as I have potentially a lot of post-meeting stuff to do already.

20:00 < sPiN> i can do handle that

20:00 <@benJIman> excellent

20:00 < apokryphos> cool

20:01 < sPiN> are there any other wikis besides the ones already mentioned?

20:01 <@benJIman> AI Spin to contact wiki owners and announce proposal on list

20:01 < sPiN> which list is this?

20:01 <@benJIman> Probably -project again

20:02 < vincenegri> makes most sense

20:02 < apokryphos> right

20:02 < sPiN> what was the domain name?

20:02 < apokryphos> opensuse-community.org

20:02 * vincenegri bows

20:02 < vincenegri> ;)

20:02 <@benJIman> leave off the domain name from public announcements until it's been registered, might have to censor it from logs

20:02 <@cb400f> sPiN: maybe -wiki too

20:02 < apokryphos> it's available, so I'll set it up now

20:03 <@benJIman> apokryphos: ok, let spin and myself know when it's actually registered

20:03 < sPiN> ns1,ns2,ns3.dreamhost.com apokryphos

20:03 < apokryphos> thanks spin

20:03 <@benJIman> ok I think that ties up that idea, anyone want to start another topic?

20:03 < instlux> I'd like to discuss about a project for installing opensuse from windows...

20:04 <@benJIman> Interesting idea.

20:04 <@yaloki> instlux: show me the code ^^

20:04 <@benJIman> instlux: have you any ideas about how this would be achieved technically, simply extracting an image?

20:04 < instlux> I am the mantainer of a project for installing OpenSuSE from Windows, actually (http://instlux.sourceforge.net)

20:04 <@benJIman> interesting

20:05 < instlux> the opensuse version has been downloaded 8556

20:05 <@benJIman> How does it work / what needs to be added ?

20:05 <@yaloki> would be worth mentioning on opensuse.org IMO

20:05 <@benJIman> indeed

20:05 < instlux> translated to 20 languages ....

20:06 <@benJIman> Is there already a page on opensuse.org about it instlux ?

20:06 < instlux> Actually, the interesting thing will be to have instlux and OpenSuse distro in the same dvd released together but do not "where to propose that?"

20:06 <@benJIman> I was wondering about that

20:06 < instlux> benJIman: no there is not.

20:06 < vincenegri> Does it repartition the drive, or use something like the old umsdos?

20:07 < instlux> it uses grub4dos in order to boot

20:07 < instlux> actually, the point is to avoid configuring the BIOS

20:07 < vincenegri> yeah, I just read the docs... sorry

20:07 * vincenegri apologises for not rtfm

20:08 < instlux> so, using the GRUB4DOS, it boots from the hard disc and then the installation process (YaST) is started from the CD...

20:08 <@yaloki> instlux: want to do a lightning talk about it at FOSDEM ? ;)

20:08 < vincenegri> .. or the network, right?

20:09 < instlux> yaloki: it would be great. Where and when will be this year FOSDEM?

20:09 <@benJIman> instlux: you might want to attempt integration with a custom suse install media, send a mail to the list if you would need help with this

20:09 <@yaloki> instlux: http://fosdem.org/2007/lightningtalks

20:10 < vincenegri> ok, cool

20:10 < instlux> benJIman: I am sorry I do not understand. Could you explain a little bit more?

20:10 <@yaloki> instlux: (Brussels as always, 24+25 feb)

20:11 <@yaloki> reminds me of a topic I'd like to address

20:11 * yaloki takes the next ticket

20:11 <@benJIman> instlux: so take an install dvd (or cd) and produce a customized media with instalux included so that the user can install from windows or boot off the media, with the same media?

20:11 < instlux> yaloki: How do I do this? Do I register at the homepage?

20:11 <@yaloki> instlux: just send an email to lightningtalks@lists.fosdem.org to apply :)

20:12 < sPiN> http://en.opensuse.org/Making_a_SUSE_based_distribution instlux

20:12 < cboltz> FYI: the opensuse community wiki AI is https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=229219

20:12 < instlux> yaloki: I'll do it!

20:12 <@yaloki> instlux: great :)

20:12 <@benJIman> instlux: does that clarify my suggestion?

20:12 < instlux> benJIman and ssPiN: I'll give a try!

20:13 < instlux> benJIman: yes

20:13 <@yaloki> ok, topic closed ?

20:13 <@benJIman> instlux: please report back to the list, or beforehand if you need help, if there's a working example we can have the discussion about whether it would be something good to have on official media

20:13 < instlux> benJIman: actually I have some experienced on making derived distros, so I know how to do it. I have try it the make_suse_dvd script, but I'll give a try

20:14 <@benJIman> Excellent, shall we make that an AI ?

20:14 <@benJIman> yaloki: what was your topic?

20:14 < instlux> So I will report back on the list (opensuse@opensuse.or?)

20:14 < instlux> topic closed :)

20:15 <@yaloki> yeah, just a quick one

20:15 <@yaloki> it's not announced yet, but I'd like to do it anyway

20:15 <@yaloki> openSUSE will have a developer room at FOSDEM 2007

20:15 <@yaloki> we should have some community driven talks in there

20:15 <@bill-barriere> mkay so who pay my plane ticket ;)

20:16 <@yaloki> last year it was 95% novell talks

20:17 <@yaloki> and they would like us to contribute more talks, definitely

20:17 <@yaloki> so if we do see some topics as being worthy of a talk in there, let's do it

20:17 < instlux> you already have one:instlux :-)

20:17 <@fxrsliberty> if I could get there I would talk about opensuse and education :)

20:17 < vincenegri> instlux: use the opensuse-project list

20:17 <@yaloki> instlux: it's an option as well, to do it in the opensuse devroom

20:18 <@yaloki> fxrsliberty: yes, would be an interesting topic

20:18 < instlux> vincenegri: thanks

20:18 <@bill-barriere> ;)

20:18 < apokryphos> benJIman: sPiN: just a note that nameservers are set up now. It'll just take however long .org domains take to propogate

20:18 <@benJIman> apokryphos: ok, no problem with publishing the name then

20:18 <@benJIman> thanks for doing that

20:19 <@yaloki> I'll be at FOSDEM, obviously, as an organizer, I could do a talk to summarize current community efforts

20:19 <@fxrsliberty> yes please!

20:19 <@yaloki> I could play proxy for those who have interesting things going on and who can't be there

20:19 < sPiN> i have the acct setup and im going to setup media wiki shortly

20:19 <@benJIman> Someone want to start another topic?

20:19 < apokryphos> sPiN: nice

20:19 < }-Tux-{> yaloki: you cold give a (short) talk about packaging (something like a quick howto)?:)

20:19 <@cb400f> I have some ideas for projects

20:19 <@yaloki> }-Tux-{: argh, that's a 3 day workshop ;)

20:19 < vincenegri> there was something about the YaST Guis, wasnt there?

20:19 < }-Tux-{> maybe so it's possible to find new packagers..

20:20 <@cb400f> libzypp updater applet for gnome

20:20 <@benJIman> vincenegri: yes that was one of the suggestions

20:20 < }-Tux-{> yaloki: well.. it depends on the package;)

20:20 <@yaloki> }-Tux-{: ;)

20:20 <@yaloki> }-Tux-{: a live demo for a simple package could be an option, or maybe just for one package and show how to integrate it into SUSE properly

20:20 <@benJIman> vincenegri: are you interested in helping with sch a project?

20:21 < }-Tux-{> yep

20:21 <@fxrsliberty> yast subtopic: yast for squid and squid guard?

20:21 < vincenegri> Yes, also something along similar lines would be a "machine roles" YaST thing

20:21 < }-Tux-{> that's what i meant

20:21 <@benJIman> ok, so it would be nice to tidy up some existing yast modules, and create some more, they are ideal for community participation as they're relatively small and self contained projects

20:21 < vincenegri> Shall I elaborate?

20:21 < apokryphos> another point to eventually discuss: having this community meeting again :)

20:22 < vincenegri> apokryphos: ack

20:22 <@fxrsliberty> vincenegri: something like Netware does "build patterns"

20:22 <@yaloki> BTW there's a very good session about writing yast modules from last year's FOSDEM, video recording is available

20:22 < apokryphos> vincenegri: you don't think they're a good idea? :P

20:22 <@bill-barriere> yeah like the irda module tried it yesterday, its imho useless atm

20:22 < vincenegri> I mean ack as in yes, acknowledege ;)

20:22 < vincenegri> acknowledge :)

20:22 <@bill-barriere> it need a list of hardware with preset config like ie the printer scanner module

20:22 <@benJIman> It might be an idea to have a meeting dedicated to proposals for new and existing yast modules, for those interested in that, what do people think?

20:22 < vincenegri> benJIman: I agree

20:22 <@yaloki> big one, 2GB: http://ftp.belnet.be/mirror/FOSDEM/FOSDEM2006-openSUSE-10-Writing_YaST_Modules-2006-02-26-video_full.ogg

20:23 < vincenegri> yaloki: thanks

20:23 <@fxrsliberty> sure thing Bill

20:23 <@yaloki> smaller one, 300MB: http://ftp.belnet.be/mirror/FOSDEM/FOSDEM2006-openSUSE-10-Writing_YaST_Modules-2006-02-26-video_small.ogg

20:23 <@benJIman> vincenegri: do you want to volunteer to set up such a meeting?

20:23 < apokryphos> benJIman: just for proposals? Might be good to just have it as part of another community meeting

20:23 < vincenegri> benJIman: Formulate and post to the list? sure

20:23 <@benJIman> apokryphos: well it would allow more technical planning and colaboration perhaps

20:24 <@benJIman> vincenegri: read the meeting creation guidelines on en.opensuse.org/Meetings

20:24 * vincenegri reads rapidly

20:24 <@benJIman> anyone else interested in participating in such a meeting? It's good to have a core few people

20:24 < instlux> what about a YaST module for importing windows settings and documents?

20:25 <@yaloki> instlux: interesting idea

20:25 < cboltz> vincenegri: /msg me your mail address used in bugzilla so that I can enter the AI ;-)

20:25 <@benJIman> instlux: great idea

20:25 < apokryphos> I'd definitely be interested in attending

20:25 <@yaloki> maybe a wiki page that lists ideas/wishes for yast modules

20:25 < instlux> benJIman: I'd be interested in attending to

20:25 <@bill-barriere> yaloki, isnt that already there

20:25 <@bill-barriere> min

20:25 <@cb400f> http://en.opensuse.org/Feature_Wishlist/YAST_related

20:26 <@benJIman> ok perhaps if anyone interested /msg vincenegri contact details

20:26 <@bill-barriere> hah yes there

20:26 < apokryphos> yast module for webcams :P

20:28 <@benJIman> Ok, if we're having another meeting for that we can probably leave the yast module discussion there.

20:29 < judas_iscariote> benJIman: there are other module proposals.. f.e yast LAMP

20:29 <@benJIman> One thing I think it would be good to raise at the next status meeting is a way of managing such work so we don't duplicate work with people at suse.

20:29 <@benJIman> judas_iscariote: yeah

20:29 <@yaloki> no excuse

20:29 <@yaloki> _Marcus_ and Beineri are here, now they know ;))

20:30 <@benJIman> _Marcus_: but it would be usefult to have somewhere with projects & features currently being worked on and who by, to help collaboration and avoid duplication of work

20:30 <@benJIman> * yaloki

20:30 <@yaloki> yep

20:31 < judas_iscariote> benJIman: indeed, that would be very helpful.

20:31 <@yaloki> maybe have that list on opensuse-community.org

20:31 <@benJIman> ok when we assign someone to feed back to the status meeting later they can be responsible for mentioning this.

20:31 < apokryphos> maybe in the next meeting we could get houghi to do a talk on making an opensuse-based distro (with makesusedvd). That'd be nice.

20:31 <@benJIman> yaloki: I'm not sure just a list will be sufficient, needs some feature tracking tool possibly

20:32 <@yaloki> yeah

20:32 <@yaloki> host our own bugzilla on opensuse-community.org ? ;)

20:32 <@benJIman> Well whatever is done it needs to be in collaboration with suse employees

20:32 < instlux> apokryphos: I'll be very interested on that

20:32 < cboltz> Or (ab)use bugzilla.novell.com ;-)

20:33 < judas_iscariote> yaloki: I think we should ask novell to cxreate a category in bugzilla...

20:33 <@benJIman> the Novell bugzilla has a few issues which make it rather difficult for this in its present state

20:33 <@benJIman> but yes it's a possiblity

20:33 <@yaloki> instlux: maybe that one could be interesting for you too: http://ftp.belnet.be/mirror/FOSDEM/FOSDEM2006-openSUSE-12-Live_CD-2006-02-26-video_full.ogg

20:33 <@benJIman> for example, the user search only works for Novell employees, so it's very difficult for others to find other users to assign stuff to

20:33 <@benJIman> This might be a data protection thing.

20:34 < instlux> yaloki: I have tried to used but I had some difficulties so at the end I used an OpenSuSE live DVD as a base, and changed what I was needed.

20:34 <@benJIman> So, any more ideas people want to discuss?

20:34 < apokryphos> getting the live+install DVD on a torrent :D

20:34 < cboltz> benJIman: yes (I already complained about this and can offer some details in a minute if you are interested)

20:35 < apokryphos> that's something to ping the novell guys about, though

20:35 < cboltz> The AI for the YaST meeting is https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=229221

20:35 < instlux> does anyone knows about the rebranding project?

20:35 <@benJIman> instlux: what rebranding project?

20:35 < apokryphos> rembrand

20:36 <@benJIman> oh, allowing derivative distributions which don't infringe trademarks/

20:36 < instlux> benJIman: I've read it at the lists about it. I understood it was a project for removing the novell trademarks, so that an derived distribution could be made.

20:36 < apokryphos> yeah, some info on distribution

20:36 <@benJIman> I havn't been following it, but yes

20:36 < apokryphos> http://en.opensuse.org/Making_a_SUSE_based_distribution

20:36 < apokryphos> maybe houghi could give a talk on that stuff.

20:37 < instlux> apokryphos: that will be great too ;)

20:37 <@benJIman> would be good to see if we can get houghi involved in the next meeting

20:37 < apokryphos> date for the next meeting?

20:38 <@benJIman> Can discuss that now if you want, it was down for the end

20:38 <@yaloki> 6 or 20 Jan ?

20:38 < apokryphos> maybe a few weeks. We can evaluate/expand more on opensuse-wiki.org, maybe get a few more talks in too

20:38 <@benJIman> There's quite a lot of AIs coming out of this meeting, plus another meeting at some point, so don't need another one very soon I would suggest

20:39 < instlux> yaloki: I would prefer 20 Jan ...

20:39 <@yaloki> ok

20:39 <@yaloki> not 15 I have a FOSDEM meeting ^^

20:39 < apokryphos> yeah

20:39 <@benJIman> shall we plan for late january?

20:39 < apokryphos> sounds good

20:39 <@benJIman> If people are interested in helping organise the next one contact me

20:39 <@yaloki> +1

20:40 < judas_iscariote> +1

20:40 <@benJIman> Did anyone have any further ideas for brainstorming, or shall we finish up now with the few admin things?

20:40 <@fxrsliberty> agrees with benJIman

20:41 <@benJIman> ok I'll take that as an answer

20:41 <@cb400f> I had a couple.. gnome libzypp updater and desktop agnostic xgl-switch

20:41 <@benJIman> I'll do minutes & transcript unless someone else wants to

20:41 <@benJIman> ok sorry

20:42 <@cb400f> nothing concrete.. will add it to the feature-wishlist wiki-page

20:42 <@benJIman> Gnome libzypp updater would be useful for enabling the gnome users to drop zmd

20:42 < apokryphos> thing with the xgl-switch is that there's still no tool in kde for handling compiz

20:42 < judas_iscariote> gnome users can also use opensuse.updater

20:42 <@benJIman> judas_iscariote: yes they can, some may not want to of course, being a KDE user such a project doesn't personally interest me.

20:43 < apokryphos> so atm the switch is necessarily called gnome-xgl-switch, but it does work fine for kde users too

20:43 < AlbertoP> well yes, a gnome updater would be nice

20:43 <@benJIman> The switch can still be controlled with sysconfig?

20:43 < apokryphos> it can, yeah

20:44 < AlbertoP> I've an idea about testing, but not sure how realizable...

20:44 <@benJIman> so making afrontend for any DE shouldn't be particularly complex.

20:44 < apokryphos> all gnome-xgl-switch does is change the entry in sysconfig/displaymanager, and activate compiz in gnome control center (which brings in the tray icon)

20:44 < apokryphos> benJIman: the issue is having a KDE front-end to the compiz settings

20:44 < sPiN> well actually it used to do some fancier things than that apokryphos

20:44 < sPiN> it might still do some fancy stuff...

20:45 < sPiN> such as on ati cards it would add some lines to your xorg

20:45 < apokryphos> I'm pretty sure that's almost all it does. It's just a bash script

20:45 <@benJIman> apokryphos: well kwin in kde4 has its own opengl compositing

20:45 < apokryphos> oh, ok, perhaps a few things like that

20:45 < sPiN> it took into acct specific issues with certain drivers/hardware

20:45 < apokryphos> nothing too complex though

20:45 < apokryphos> benJIman: yeah, but kde4 isn't so close 8)

20:46 < sPiN> apokryphos, it seems most people want beryl these days

20:46 < apokryphos> and it's not entirely decided if kde4 will use kwin's compositing, though it probably will

20:46 <@benJIman> So cb400f is going to add those to the feature-wishlist.

20:46 < apokryphos> still, zack rusin was talking about using another WM. I don't think it'll happen, but hey.

20:46 < sPiN> and the beryl-settings manager works well enough...

20:46 <@benJIman> What was your idea about testing AlbertoP ?

20:47 < apokryphos> sPiN: and yet no distributions are distributing it :P

20:48 < AlbertoP> benJIman, considering the last two releases (10.1 and 10.2) I think opensuse needs more testing during development than now. I was thinking about some sort of coordination of community testers

20:48 <@benJIman> AlbertoP: you mean test plans etc?

20:48 < AlbertoP> yes

20:49 <@benJIman> I don't think 10.2 measures up badly to any other version of suse, but more testing is always better

20:49 < AlbertoP> 10.2 is full of minor but noisy non-critical bugs which probably will never be addressed by patches

20:49 < AlbertoP> yes...10.2 is not bad, but still annoying imo (I know, I'm demanding ;-))

20:50 * cb400f wonders when we'll see SUSE Linux Home Desktop

20:50 <@benJIman> I've seen this brought up on the lists before, was it you AlbertoP ?

20:50 < AlbertoP> nope

20:50 <@benJIman> the test-plans thing

20:50 <@benJIman> I can't rememeber the outcome offhand.

20:50 <@cb400f> I think it would be worked on

20:51 < AlbertoP> no...never wrote about it...it's an idea which came to me 10 mins ago while discovering two problems ^^

20:51 <@cb400f> but it's not enough.. test plans don't solve everything with only 5-6 weeks testing after feature freeze

20:51 < judas_iscariote> I think the actual timeframe is too short.

20:51 <@benJIman> Is there a mailing list where bugs assigned to opensuse are posted yet?

20:51 < AlbertoP> true, but better than nothing...some parts of 10.2 seems not tested at all

20:52 < cboltz> benJIman: opensuse-bugs@opensuse.org - very high traffic ;-)

20:52 < AlbertoP> the cups/gnome-cups/yast-printer and similar is a good example ;-)

20:53 < judas_iscariote> AlbertoP: will be nice to identifie what parts "are not tested at all".

20:53 < judas_iscariote> so, we can try to get some poeple to test them no ?=

20:53 <@benJIman> AlbertoP: What can be done to help make testing more effective in the time available?

20:53 < AlbertoP> judas_iscariote, yes

20:54 < apokryphos> ok, I'm out. See you guys :)

20:54 < AlbertoP> benJIman, maybe divide the things to test and assigns tasks

20:54 < judas_iscariote> apokryphos: later

20:54 <@benJIman> see you

20:54 < sPiN> later apokryphos

20:54 < sPiN> thanks for getting the domain

20:55 < AlbertoP> of course it's almost impossible to cover all the cases...but it would be a nice start

20:55 < AlbertoP> bye apokryphos

20:56 < vincenegri> back to say goodnight all

20:56 <@benJIman> AlbertoP: yes, probably seomething we need to come back to after it's been considered more.

20:56 < AlbertoP> yes

20:56 <@benJIman> I think we should probably wrap up the meeting now, I'm sure people will be around after anyway

20:56 < vincenegri> see you guys at the YaST meeting

20:56 < AlbertoP> ^^

20:57 <@benJIman> So I'll write the minutes & post transcript unless anyone else desperately wants to

20:57 < AlbertoP> hehe no one I think :-)

20:57 <@benJIman> Can I get a volunteer to feed back from this meeting to the status meeting next week?

20:58 <@benJIman> Probably means giving a summary (where minutes are etc, and also bringing up the topic of collaboration with Novell/suse guys to avoid duplicating effort on implementation of features

20:58 <@benJIman> I'm at work during status meetings, so can't do it myself

20:59 <@cb400f> most likely I'll be there

20:59 <@benJIman> Status meeting is at 17:00GMT next wednesday

21:00 < AlbertoP> sigh...wed....I can't be here

21:00 < AlbertoP> 2nd year exam^^

21:00 <@benJIman> cb400f: well if you are able to that would be great.

21:00 <@benJIman> noone else can say with more certainty that they can be there?

21:01 <@cb400f> I'll take it on.. there's a slight possibility I have to work.. but in that case I'll put the relevant info in QA on wiki or something

21:01 <@benJIman> ok

21:01 <@benJIman> I might be able to make the end anyway, depends how long it is

21:02 <@benJIman> I think we've covered the other task assigning.

21:02 <@benJIman> Any other Business?

21:03 <@benJIman> Ok then, I'd like to thank everyone for coming and contributing, it has been far more successful than I predicted.

21:04 <@cb400f> yup, nice meeting

21:04 < judas_iscariote> benJIman: you are welcome.

21:04 <@benJIman> Oh one more thing to mention

21:05 <@benJIman> Henne requested that future community meetings be held in -project, and any required access priviledges can be sorted out to allow that.

21:05 <@cb400f> sounds reasonable

21:05 < judas_iscariote> looks fine

21:06 -!- benJIman changed the topic of #opensuse-community to: Meeting was at 18:00GMT - 21:00GMT 2006-12-16 | Transcript and Minutes coming soon.