KDE/Meetings/2009 10 01-transcript

[18:09:29] <dirk> the meeting has started :-) [18:09:32] <dirk> this is the agenda: [18:09:37] <dirk> http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Meetings [18:09:49] <dirk> lets start with the old action items [18:10:05] <dirk> http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Meetings/20090903 [18:10:12] <dirk> * add packaging guideline for kde4 packages (wstephenson) [18:10:26] <dirk> Will is missing, does anyone know about progress? [18:10:29] <llunak> same old, same old :) [18:11:29] <initialZero> no idea [18:11:43] <dirk> * talk to docu and PM about artwork reqts (wstephenson) [18:11:48] <dirk> llunak to take care of artwork reqts for Wil [18:11:54] <dirk> whats the status here? [18:12:24] <llunak> artwork made it in time for the M7 deadline [18:12:34] <llunak> still probably needs some tweaks, but I haven't touched it since [18:12:51] <llunak> but generally done [18:13:18] <dirk> good :) [18:13:27] <dirk> * greeter and associated text (wstephenson) [18:13:43] <dirk> seems done? [18:13:43] <llunak> I think you are reading last meeting's old AIs [18:13:50] <dirk> * find a way to keep PA disabled by default even if something else pulls it in (llunak) [18:14:22] <llunak> bug #537780, it has patch from me, but it hasn't made it in M8 [18:14:28] <bugbot> openSUSE bug 537780 in openSUSE 11.2 (Sound) "setup-pulseaudio --disable does not actually disable PulseAudio" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/537780 [18:16:20] <dirk> * schedule a KDE session at the conference (llunak) [18:16:23] <dirk> I think it was done :) [18:16:39] <dirk> * investigate whether it's possible to disable auto-hide for file operations (llunak) [18:16:47] <llunak> not done [18:16:52] <dirk> * move desktop-data and kdebase-openSUSE to gitorous and mail the list when it's done (llunak) [18:17:15] <|tigerfoot|> auto-hide is already working no ? [18:17:48] <dirk> llunak: done? I'm not sure currently [18:17:53] <llunak> done, http://gitorious.org/opensuse/kdebase4-opensuse , http://gitorious.org/opensuse/desktop-data [18:18:07] <dirk> great :-) [18:18:12] <dirk> so done with action items.. [18:18:14] <dirk> * status report [18:18:31] <llunak> |tigerfoot|: see last meeting for details [18:18:46] <llunak> M8 just released [18:19:14] <llunak> ah, dammit, beineri is not here, he always remembers all these things, I don't [18:19:46] <dirk> M8 is the last milestone before the hot phase [18:19:55] <dirk> it contains KDE 4.3.1 with 4.3 branch updates from last week [18:20:17] <dirk> upstream I'll do a KDE 4.3.2 release shortly, but it won't get into OS 11.2 (more about this later) [18:20:40] <dirk> I have no other status other than that I need to work on libqt4 4.6 (titiacoke helped here a lot already) and UNSTABLE [18:20:53] <dirk> and the 5-6 criticial bugs assigned to me [18:21:43] <llunak> ah yes - we had this "little" problem with polkit-1+packagekit+kupdateapplet - we'll go with the gtk polkit authentication agent for 11.2 [18:21:51] <dirk> beineri started to twitter new KDE 4.4 unstable CDs - http://twitter.com/Beineri [18:22:01] <tittiatcoke> dirk: I think that I can send a SR with the latest changes later [18:22:29] <dirk> tittiatcoke: whops, sorry for misspelling your nickname (I had my fun with <tab> :-) [18:22:44] <tittiatcoke> dirk: no problem :-) [18:22:58] <dirk> ok, any more status? :-) [18:23:57] <dirk> seems not.. so [18:23:59] <dirk> * new items [18:24:18] <dirk> * openSUSE Air panel looks too flat and should be changed back to the original. Change too flatness was requested by llunak according to pinheiro [18:24:28] <dirk> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=540493 [18:24:40] <llunak> the answer to that is "huh?" [18:24:46] <dragotin> or hmmm [18:24:53] <llunak> unless it was actually Will asking for that [18:25:24] <llunak> I did not have any specific requirements, I was just picking up whatever was available when Will was ill and the deadline was imminent [18:25:46] <tittiatcoke> llunak: Maybe it would also be better if the background for the systray is a little darker [18:26:04] <llunak> I'm not an artist, not even close [18:26:26] <llunak> AI: sort out bnc#540493 somehow (llunak) [18:26:55] <dragotin> I think we should go with pinieros suggestions [18:27:09] <dirk> * KDE:43 repo change communications [18:27:18] <dirk> Ok, I guess I should talk about this :-) [18:27:27] <dirk> I started to copy KDE:KDE4:Factory:Desktop into KDE:43 [18:27:46] <dirk> the reason for that is that I plan to put KDE 4.3.2 into that project [18:27:57] <dirk> as KDE:KDE4:Factory:Desktop will remain on 4.3.1 plus patches until 11.2 is released [18:28:15] <dirk> I think we should announce the new repo to those who are interested.. [18:28:22] <dirk> anyone interested in helping with that? [18:28:36] <dirk> there is the wiki page to update at least - mail to opensuse-kde@, anything else? [18:29:09] <initialZero> I don't get the whole kde:version thing. when I suggested way back that we have kde:release to match upstream everyone rejected it saying it was too much work. [18:29:16] <|tigerfoot|> dirk how much time estimated for the "what to do" [18:29:19] <initialZero> but that's what we are doing here [18:29:49] <dirk> initialZero: let me explain the idea [18:29:57] <llunak> dirk: KDE:43 will be dumped again after KKFD is again opened? [18:30:02] <dirk> KDE:KDE4:STABLE:Desktop is containing the KDE that shipped with the last openSUSE release [18:30:11] <dirk> KDE:KDE4:Factory:Desktop contains the KDE that will be shipped in the next openSUSE release [18:30:29] <dirk> to make other versions of KDE available, we started to host them in KDE:42 and now in KDE:43 [18:30:38] <dirk> is this not a good solution for everyone? [18:30:50] <dirk> llunak: I would disable it from build and let it rest in peace, like KDE:42 [18:30:52] <initialZero> It certainly is [18:31:05] <initialZero> its just a lot of extra work [18:31:42] <llunak> initialZero: it doesn't add more work now, it will simply only take the work that would have otherwise happened in KKFD for the 2 months now [18:31:51] <dirk> everybody who's interested to get it to work can help :-) [18:32:16] <initialZero> I guess I thought it was maintained every minor version [18:32:26] <llunak> a good AI for everybody "I'd like to help but I'm not a developer/packager" people [18:33:02] <tittiatcoke> true :-) [18:33:04] <|tigerfoot|> Can help but need time estimate ... and clear mission [18:33:12] <|tigerfoot|> :-) [18:33:29] <initialZero> thanks for the clarification. done with kde:version [18:33:59] <llunak> dirk: KDE:42 has still build enabled - so there we disable the build now and just keep it as it is? [18:35:43] <dirk> |tigerfoot|: time estimate for what exactly? sorry I don't understand [18:36:08] <dirk> llunak: I think publishing is disabled iirc. at least that was beineri's plan [18:36:26] <dirk> I don't spend any time on KDE:42 - but I will not prevent anyone else from keep maintaining it [18:36:34] <dirk> I think disabling the build will put out that message though [18:37:01] <llunak> dirk: I will then mention in the minutes that KDE:42 is unmaintained now [18:37:03] <tittiatcoke> tigerfoot: I am helping out with UNSTABLE (which I assume cost more time) and I am spending there maybe 6 to 7 hours per week [18:37:38] <dirk> |tigerfoot|: ah, for maintaining KDE:43? I don't think it is much work, just looking at it once in a while and fix any new build failures [18:38:04] <dirk> there will be a bigger set of those everytime I dump in a new KDE 4.3.x release, but between that the effort should be low (1-2 hours per week) [18:38:06] <|tigerfoot|> ok + changing the wiki could be in my cords ... [18:38:19] <dirk> oh, that would be awesome :) [18:38:24] <dirk> can we put that down as an action item? [18:39:14] <|tigerfoot|> thanks titiatcoke get a window [18:39:30] <dirk> so.. [18:39:45] <|tigerfoot|> I can spend 2 to 4 hours by week on any kde missions :-) [18:39:45] <dirk> AI: update en.opensuse.org/KDE/Repositories for KDE:42 (|tigerfoot|) [18:39:56] <dirk> sorry, KDE:43 [18:40:08] <dirk> * Agree policy for adding newer versions than in KKFD to KDE:Backports [18:40:16] <|tigerfoot|> and leaving a notice that 42 isn't build anymore ... [18:40:32] <llunak> how about "AI: updates about the status of KDE:42 and KDE:43 in en.opensuse.org/KDE/Repositories and opensuse-kde@ (|tigerfoot|)" :) ? [18:41:34] <|tigerfoot|> ok llunak. do it before sunday ok ? [18:41:50] <llunak> that'd be great [18:42:05] <|tigerfoot|> (sorry first IRC use, so a bit loss with specific command :-)) [18:42:17] <llunak> dirk: do you know what this one is about? [18:42:25] <llunak> tittiatcoke: ^ ? [18:42:26] <dirk> llunak: no, sorry, I have no idea :-( [18:42:46] <dirk> I guess it is about [18:42:48] <tittiatcoke> Policy for adding newer version, you mean ? [18:42:56] <llunak> "[17:55:57] <Bille> and that we document what the policy for Backports is until 11.2 is released" - but I don't get what it actually is supposed to be about [18:43:00] <tittiatcoke> That one must have been raised by wstephenson. [18:43:03] <dirk> * KDE:Backports should not contain newer versions of the package than those in KDE:KDE4:Factory:Desktop [18:43:12] <dirk> but I'm not really sure [18:43:21] <dirk> ok, I suggest to postpone this item to the next meeting? [18:43:22] <Beineri> why not? [18:43:38] <tittiatcoke> dirk: The situation is as follows. Amarok 2.2 has been released and the question is where to put it ?? KKFD is frozen, so where ? [18:43:50] <tittiatcoke> Or do we use Backport for this ? [18:44:00] <dirk> tittiatcoke: ah, thats what it is about. hmm [18:44:12] <Beineri> tittiatcoke: yes. like done for other updates already... ? [18:44:13] <llunak> I would simply use KDE:43, when it is a KKFD replacement until 11.2 release [18:44:34] <dirk> llunak: but then installing amarok 2.2 would require you to update to KDE 4.3 [18:44:59] <dirk> if it is possible to install amarok on KDE 4.1 or whatever KDE version we shipped on openSUSE X.Y, then we should provide that [18:45:05] <Beineri> llunak: wasn't it us discussing to park never versions in KDE:Backports? [18:45:06] <dirk> tittiatcoke: do you know if it actualyl builds against KDE 4.1? [18:45:10] <llunak> it can be in Backports too, but 43 should be now the primary location [18:45:41] <llunak> just like KKFD was the primary location until now [18:45:57] <llunak> Beineri: I don't know, I don't remember [18:46:07] <tittiatcoke> dirk: It only build currently against KKFD and KKUD [18:46:20] <tittiatcoke> dirk: It will not build against 4.1 or 4.2 [18:46:32] <dirk> ok, so amarok 2.2 cannot be put into KDE:Backports anyway [18:46:59] <Beineri> dirk: for openSUSE_11.1 it can and will build [18:47:04] <Beineri> dirk: typo, for openSUSE_11.2 it can and will build [18:47:09] <tittiatcoke> Another example is smb4k. version 0.10.3 has been released. Where to put that one ? Bille was so nice to accept it for Backports, but was this correct ? [18:47:30] <Beineri> tittiatcoke: KDE:Backports, yes [18:47:42] <dirk> I think the original idea of KDE:Backports was to be a repo of source links to openSUSE:Factory (or KKFD) [18:47:51] <dirk> do we want to change this? [18:48:04] <dirk> e.g. allow all kinds of newer vresions in there, even though they're not yet in factory? [18:48:18] <Beineri> dirk: for periods of Factory/KKFD being feature frozen we said 'yes' [18:48:20] <tittiatcoke> I guess the bigger question is if we want to supply newer version of programs during the freeze ? [18:48:26] <Beineri> s/feature/version/ [18:48:31] <llunak> Beineri: but now there is KDE:43, so I see no point in that [18:48:41] <dirk> Beineri: okay. so, what should we decide here? :-) [18:48:47] <|tigerfoot|> backport isn't the new software, compiled against the stable (shipped version) branch ? [18:49:02] <dirk> |tigerfoot|: backport is KDE software build against the plain distro [18:49:06] <Beineri> llunak: what das KDE:43 help 11.1 users who want new smb4k but not want to upgrade their KDE (which is the whole point of having KDE:Backports)? :-) [18:49:16] <dirk> |tigerfoot|: so you can install it as addational components without having to update anything else [18:49:22] <llunak> Beineri: that doesn't matter [18:49:28] <Beineri> llunak: ? [18:49:40] <llunak> let me ask this way: what is the reason we need to discuss Backports now? [18:49:57] <Beineri> someone added it to agenda? :-) [18:50:17] <llunak> funny, but I am serious [18:50:21] * dirk suggests to postpone the item [18:50:32] <tittiatcoke> Because of the fact that we have a number of programs that have been version updated and the question is where does these need to be placed in order to make them available to our users ? [18:50:47] <llunak> if the reason was the KKFD is frozen, then KDE:43 takes temporarily place of that, so nothing really changes, except for KKFD->K43 [18:51:00] <Beineri> lets postpone until after feature freeze and continue until then as until now ;-) [18:51:06] <tittiatcoke> :-) [18:51:40] <llunak> tittiatcoke: why is that question not answered by the KDE:43 topic? [18:52:29] <dirk> llunak: good point [18:52:42] <dirk> I think we conclude that we keep KDE:43 as a KKFD replacement until KKFD is unfrozen [18:52:46] <tittiatcoke> Because that repo will only help those that are running 4.3 or are upgrading to it. [18:52:57] <initialZero> we are approaching one hour for this meeting [18:53:11] <dirk> tittiatcoke: yes, he means that you can put the newer version into KDE:43, and then sourcelink it in KDE:Backports [18:53:12] <Beineri> initialZero: so half time? :-) [18:53:12] <tittiatcoke> But I guess this is the majority. This means however that we need to take care of KKUD also with different links (pointing to KDE:43 instead of KKFD) [18:53:16] <llunak> tittiatcoke: no, you don't get what I'm saying - what was the rule until now? use the same rule, just do KKFD->K43 replace in the rule [18:53:43] <tittiatcoke> Ok. That part I got :-) [18:53:53] <initialZero> Beirneri dirk has a limited amount of time to lead ther meeting [18:53:58] <llunak> so why doesn't that solve the Backports problem? [18:54:18] <llunak> initialZero: I or somebody else will take over if necessary [18:54:19] <tittiatcoke> If we link Backports then from KDE:43 then the issue is indeed solved [18:54:37] <dirk> great :-) [18:54:40] * dirk moves to the next item [18:54:43] <tittiatcoke> :-) [18:54:49] <dirk> * Firefox KDE integration demo/article [18:55:42] <dirk> who brought that topic up? [18:55:49] <dirk> who knows what it is about ? :-) [18:55:52] <llunak> I did - it'd be nice to properly announce this [18:56:24] <Beineri> just do it? :-) [18:56:32] <llunak> would there be a volunteer to redo the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyp5bX_NV6k video on M8, showing everything from http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/FirefoxIntegration and writting something for news.opensuse.org and dot.kde.org ? [18:56:48] <llunak> Beineri: yes, but who? [18:56:52] <|tigerfoot|> It's working like a charm for the last 4 hours of test I made. Would be a nice replacement for Kgtk [18:57:48] <llunak> if nobody steps up, I'll just add it in the minutes and do as/if time permits [18:58:22] <|tigerfoot|> Has someone a scenari for the what we must show, more precise than the youtub video ? [18:58:39] <llunak> no, details up to whoever does it [18:58:55] <alin> may I ask something about firefox? [18:59:09] <|tigerfoot|> add the line if time permit I wiil try a capture. [18:59:19] <llunak> alin: in the Q&A topic, unless the question is "can I take this item?" [18:59:44] <alin> why do we sheep the 32 bit flash when adobe offers a proper 64 bit one [19:00:43] <initialZero> alin we are in a meeting please wait till it is finished for questions [19:01:00] <alin> llunak: if i take this item nobody will use firefox [19:01:19] <llunak> dirk: next item [19:01:31] <dirk> * Are there some important backports for 11.2 already? [19:01:37] <dirk> e.g. https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=178973 [19:01:44] <bugbot> KDE bug 178973 in amarok (Collection) "Collection get messed up after adding new folders" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] [19:02:11] <dirk> how to move forward on this? [19:02:28] <dirk> where to announce that important backports ar emissing? [19:02:36] <dirk> is opensuse-kde@opensuse.org a good place? [19:02:51] <llunak> what do you mean exactly? what should that be announced? [19:03:01] <llunak> "why should" [19:04:19] <dirk> maybe I misunderstood the agenda item [19:04:35] <llunak> whose item is this then? [19:04:46] <dirk> I interpreted as if: if any user knows (e.g. because he gets told by upstream) that our packages are missing something, where should they announce it so that it is put into 11.2? [19:05:00] <llunak> "bugzilla"? [19:05:01] <dirk> I guess "just file a bugreport" would be the valid answer [19:05:43] <llunak> |tigerfoot|: you already have one action item, I will mail opensuse-kde about firefox, in case somebody else volunteers, otherwise you can if you find the time [19:06:03] <llunak> next item then [19:06:24] <dirk> * Q&A [19:07:08] <dirk> any questions ? :-) [19:07:26] <dirk> next meeting will be on October 15th, right? [19:07:36] <llunak> yes