KDE/Meetings/2009 07 09-transcript

[18:28] <Beineri> Welcome to the openSUSE KDE community IRC meeting! Please wait with other discussion until the meeting is over. This meeting is logged. [18:29] * Beineri announces the meeting is starting [18:29] <Beineri> Agenda so far [18:29] <Beineri> 1) old action items [18:29] <Beineri> 2) status report [18:30] <Beineri> 3) "Applications in default KDE installation" summary [18:30] <Beineri> 4) What to do with Quanta [18:30] <Beineri> 5) Q&A, misc [18:30] <Beineri> anything to add? [18:30] <remur_030> sounds complete [18:31] <Beineri> so, first old action items: [18:31] <Beineri> * add packaging guideline for kde4 packages (wstephenson) [18:31] <Beineri> Bille_: ? [18:32] <Beineri> not done [18:32] <remur_030> Beineri: [18:12] <Bille_> remur_030: i'm here, but i'm not in the IRC meeting, in a real meeting. have fun and i'll read the logs later. [18:32] <Beineri> * figure out license repo dialogs and other ways how to notify the users about our bug reports policy (wstephenson) [18:32] <Beineri> afaik not done [18:32] <Beineri> * put together a howto for cross distribution packaging of kde applications (bittin`) [18:32] <Beineri> !seen bittin' [18:32] <SUSEhelp> Beineri: Sorry, no such luck! I don't remember seeing bittin'! [18:33] <Beineri> SUSEhelp: bad memory? [18:33] <MathStuf> !seen bittin` [18:33] <SUSEhelp> MathStuf: bittin_ said "yes" in #opensuse-kde at Sat May 02 07:54:48 BST 2009 before quitting with message "K-lined" at Tue Jul 07 11:03:58 BST 2009. [18:33] <MathStuf> backtick not apostrophe :) [18:33] <Beineri> his action item must be newer than may imo :-) [18:33] <Beineri> so not done [18:34] <Beineri> * find out about branding, upstream vs openSUSE (wstephenson) [18:34] <Beineri> <Bille_> regarding my shared branding AI: I'm in discussion with the oxygen guys and jimmac. nothing to report yet, i need to get oxygen to send a suggestion to jimmac so he knows we don't want to just stick KDE logos everywehre. [18:34] <Beineri> sounds wip [18:34] <Beineri> * post your favorite screenshots for each topic here KDE/Meetings/CommunityWeek2009/DefaultDesktop11_2 (everyone) [18:34] <Beineri> four now, still not many [18:35] <Beineri> if we continue with one more each two weeks... ;-) [18:35] <Beineri> * check what is needed for epub support in okular (llunak) [18:35] <Beineri> no progress, bug report is now assigned to Seli [18:35] <Beineri> * make sure plasma notify firefox add-on and Firefox Oxygen skin are packaged, for evalution of inclusion (javier_) [18:36] <Beineri> did anyone watch this? [18:36] <remur_030> cb400f said firefox oxygen is comming [18:36] <remur_030> hsitter is on it afai understood [18:37] <remur_030> what's the plasma notify add-on btw? [18:38] <Beineri> afaik it puts the "download finished" etc. notifications into plasma systemtray info thingie [18:38] <remur_030> k, no update I take it? [18:38] <remur_030> well no status update on the AI =) [18:38] <Beineri> seems so [18:39] <Beineri> * find out why 'show space information' in dolphin is not enabled by default in upstream (javier_) [18:39] * Beineri has the answer of Peter Penz somewhere... [18:39] <Beineri> > There are no technical reasons for this. There is just too less space in [18:39] <Beineri> > the status bar to show the space information and the zoom slider in [18:39] <Beineri> > parallel (at least for the default window size and considering that the [18:39] <Beineri> > statusbar requires enough space for the text). [18:39] <Beineri> so found out :-) [18:40] <Beineri> * organize somebody to run the next meeting (cb400f) [18:40] <Beineri> well [18:40] <Beineri> !fail [18:40] <SUSEhelp> http://tinyurl.com/3ybguf [18:40] <bitshuffler> :D [18:40] <remur_030> heh [18:40] <Beineri> * drop katalog, hk_classes, knoda from 11.2 (llunak) [18:41] <Beineri> hk_classes and knoda got dropped today. katalog not, and I don't see a pending drop request for it? [18:41] <remur_030> Beineri: he added the drop requests last time [18:41] <remur_030> maybe rejected? [18:41] <Beineri> was there one for katalog? [18:42] <Beineri> drop requests got dumped or not executed in-between, but all should be replayed by now... [18:42] <remur_030> puh no idea, seli said so but maybe forgot it [18:42] <Beineri> 2) status report [18:43] <Beineri> kde 4.3 rc1 got finally checked into Factory today - mostly, some packages were rejected (because of legal reasons?) [18:43] <Beineri> so there might occur some dependency problems [18:44] <remur_030> coolo: ? [18:44] <bitshuffler> what legal reasons? [18:44] <Beineri> partial checkin may also caused problems with dropping of kde4- prefixes (as those changes were also not checked in for last two weeks) [18:45] <Beineri> bitshuffler: dunno, got no answer today. kdebase4-workspace, kdepim4-runtime and kdegames4 are suddenly on "Production: no" state which usually are only for non legally approved packages [18:46] <remur_030> well without the first two there will be no real usable desktop eh? [18:46] <bitshuffler> Beineri: I see, thanks :) [18:46] <Beineri> kde 4.3 rc2 packages are in KDE:KDE4:Factory:Desktop, but not all built (like python, kdeutils4, plasma-addons) [18:46] <Beineri> unfortunately what build synced out before a fix built or publishing got disabled, so also some dependency problems there too [18:46] <Beineri> s/what/that/ [18:47] <Beineri> and OBS is quite busy atm, and libqt4 changes retriggers everything, so it will take some time/days [18:48] <Beineri> and finally KDE:KDE4:UNSTABLE:Desktop is building KDE 4.3.60 packages [18:48] <Beineri> first KDE 4.4 development snapshot [18:48] <bitshuffler> \o/ [18:48] <Beineri> some people have been/are at GCDS [18:49] <Beineri> the Kopete/Yahoo fix doesn't work... [18:49] <Beineri> anything missing? [18:49] <remur_030> Beineri: what's broken about the yahoo fix? [18:50] <remur_030> I wonder why so many people complained, looks like yahoo ain't too popular [18:50] <Beineri> remur_030: the bug report (a new dupe) was reopened that the KDE:42 backport doesn't work [18:50] * Beineri has no Yahoo account :-) [18:50] <remur_030> or people stick to kde3 kopete... [18:50] <remur_030> *why so few people complained [18:50] <Beineri> remur_030: I doubt that Yahoo still works there [18:51] <remur_030> Beineri: i think the kopete author said exactly that in the blogpost [18:51] <Beineri> what? [18:52] <remur_030> that it keeps working with kopete 0.12, can't open his blog now though [18:53] <Beineri> 3) "Applications in default KDE installation" summary [18:53] <Beineri> so most people replied in this thread that they want mc no live-cd/default install ;-| [18:54] <Beineri> iirc the only other popular thing was yakuake [18:54] <Beineri> or any other mass votes for something other here? :-) [18:54] <remur_030> Beineri: yeah, what about krusader, split out -lang? [18:55] <Beineri> wasn't mc more popular than krusader? :-) [18:55] <remur_030> Beineri: depending on the mc voices there should be a mc live cd ;-) [18:56] <Beineri> now every live cd will be a "mc live cd" [18:56] <bitshuffler> e2fsprogs & fdisk are on the live cd, right? (my main issue would them being a fully useable rescue system but that's not directly kde related) [18:56] <Beineri> bitshuffler: dunno, check yourself :-) [18:56] <Beineri> cb400f wanted also more tools to make it a "rescue cd" [18:56] <remur_030> bitshuffler: cb400f suggested these as well, coolo wants a bugreport for it, cb400f didn't post an update on the issue [18:56] <remur_030> like a filed bugreport [18:57] * bitshuffler files one to put fdisk on the disk [18:57] * remur_030 goes check his menu for candidates [18:57] <Beineri> offtopic AI: cb400/bitshuffler, file bug report about missing rescue tools [18:58] <Beineri> and I suggest AI to add yakuake to KDE CD :-) [18:58] <remur_030> Beineri: okteka? [18:58] <remur_030> I like it, but I guess it's a quite special tool [18:58] <Beineri> !tell tittiatcoke I still would like to see choqok (and arora) in Factory/on DVD. So feel encouraged to submit! [18:58] <SUSEhelp> Beineri: Okay, will tell upon next speaking. (Sent to 1 person.) [18:59] <Beineri> remur_030: not even text file comparision (kompare) got feedback :-) [19:00] <remur_030> Beineri: isn't kompare or kdiff3 on the image? [19:00] <bitshuffler> how about chromium? ;D [19:00] <remur_030> they kinda cover the same usecase... [19:00] <Beineri> cd? don't think so [19:00] <remur_030> well then you have my vote for either of them =) [19:01] <Beineri> remur_030: you can volunteer to look what qt/kde stuff is missing on the DVD :-) [19:01] * Beineri can give a list of last milestone dvd content [19:01] <Beineri> qt-creator sounds eg like a good candidate [19:01] <remur_030> it's not even on the DVD? well I don't know thought space is limited there as well now [19:02] <Beineri> remur_030: dvd patterns are mostly still 11.2 state, eg referencing dropped koffice1 - so there is no koffice on dvd [19:02] <Beineri> 11.1 [19:03] <Beineri> (but the question is, should the "2.0 technology preview" be on the DVD) [19:03] <Beineri> remur_030: neither kdiff3 not *kompare on DVD [19:03] <remur_030> -1, I don't think koffice devs would approve [19:03] <Beineri> remur_030: not okteta, so do you volunteer? :-) [19:03] <remur_030> ah alright [19:04] <Beineri> AI: suggest list what Qt/KDE apps to add to DVD [19:04] <Beineri> 4) What to do with Quanta [19:05] <Beineri> what is on last milestone DVD due to Quanta is btw kdesdk3 ;-| [19:05] <bitshuffler> does anyone use it anyways? (sure, I guess some do but those can get it from obs as well) [19:05] <Beineri> Quanta is the only app on the KDE/Ideas/11.2 page which shows no porting progress at all [19:05] <Beineri> and it depends on some library/service packages in kdesdk3 [19:06] * bitshuffler votes for dropping it [19:06] <bitshuffler> use the space for kdevelop or qt-creator ;D [19:06] <MathStuf> its waiting on kdevplatform PHP support IIRC [19:06] <Beineri> while most other applications of kdesdk3 and kdeweb3 are ported and available as single kde4 app packages [19:07] <Beineri> so, there are several solutions: [19:07] <Beineri> a) drop both kdesdk3 and kdewebdev3, and have them only available in KDE:KDE3 in OBS [19:07] <rabauke> quanta is used by me, e.g. [19:08] <Beineri> b) build Quanta without cvsservice plugin/support, drop kdesdk3 (and maybe don't build kde3 versions of klinkstatus etc. on Factory/11.2) [19:08] <rabauke> can the alternatives upload to a certain webfolder? [19:08] <Beineri> c) split out cvsservice from kdesdk3 to keep fully functional quanta [19:08] <Beineri> d) mhm, do nothing - keep booth kdesdk3 and kdewebdev3 [19:08] <bitshuffler> cvsservice == cvs support? [19:09] <Beineri> bitshuffler: sounds like. ask rabauke ;-) [19:10] <Beineri> rabauke: what alternatives? for kde? [19:10] <bitshuffler> well, if they didn't even started to port it to qt4 keep it fully functional in kde:kde3 - less work & best results [19:10] <rabauke> I don't use cvs support, so I'm fine with dropping that. cvs is not that popular anymore anyways, is it? Yet quanta features an easy to use edit+upload interface for normal users, which I think is important enough to keep it. [19:10] <bitshuffler> eclipse & jboss tools - although that has nothing to do with kde [19:10] <rabauke> those are out of scope for "normal users" are they not? [19:11] <remur_030> cheers for eclipse! [19:11] <bitshuffler> well, that may be right ;D [19:11] <rabauke> it's about people handling their private website [19:12] <remur_030> rabauke: could you check a non cvsservice quanta and see what works/what doesn't? [19:12] <bitshuffler> but those are somehow the minority as well - so if there's something more general that could use the space ... [19:12] <rabauke> remur_030: I can. [19:13] <remur_030> Beineri: could you try b) in your home: so rabauke can check? [19:13] <Beineri> remur_030: it builds, I already did a test-build [19:13] * Beineri guesses it works then too :-) [19:14] <remur_030> is it still around? for simple homepage stuff why not, we don't need it on dvd nor cd [19:14] <Beineri> so try c)? [19:14] <Beineri> uhm b) [19:14] <remur_030> Beineri: if you did that already as well, I guess cvsservice ain't too big [19:14] <remur_030> nvm [19:14] <Beineri> who wants fully functionally Quanta has to use KDE:KDE3 repository [19:14] <remur_030> +1 [19:14] <rabauke> yep [19:16] * Beineri has another topic btw :-) [19:16] <Beineri> 4.5) Remaining kde4- prefixes [19:16] <remur_030> wait [19:16] <Beineri> for? [19:17] <remur_030> well what to do now? [19:17] <remur_030> push b) into factory? [19:17] <Beineri> remur_030: I thought c [19:17] * Beineri is confused [19:17] * remur_030 as well [19:17] <Beineri> no, b) :-) [19:17] <Beineri> b) == who wants fully functionally Quanta has to use KDE:KDE3 repository [19:18] <remur_030> alright, you do the stuff for KDE4:Factory eh? [19:18] <Beineri> AI: drop kdesdk3, build kdewebdev3 without cvsservice (and other kde3 apps) [Beineri] [19:18] <Beineri> remur_030: happy? :-) [19:18] <remur_030> very =) [19:19] <Beineri> about kde4- prefixes, debatable mostly for non application packages :-) [19:20] <Beineri> and for some we better keep it so people have a clue what it's about: kde4-filesystem, kde4-l10n-*, kde4-printer-applet, kde4-webkitpart, ... [19:20] <Beineri> but what about the other like kde4-plasma-addons, kde4-plasmoid-*, kde4-konqueror-plugins, ... ? [19:20] <Beineri> do people know that plasma-* and plasmoid-* are for kde4? :-) [19:21] <remur_030> drop them, no one nows metacity is gnome either [19:21] <remur_030> well people don't know ;-) [19:21] <Beineri> metacity works without gnome ;-) [19:21] <rabauke> the advantage of the kde4- is that they appear in the package list next to the other kde packages [19:21] <bitshuffler> does it matter if they know or not? if they search the package name shows up so if there's no such package in kde3 then drop the prefix [19:21] <Beineri> rabauke: next to kde4-l10n, yes ;-) [19:21] <rabauke> next to k* [19:21] <remur_030> rabauke: most are dropped already, der drops ist gelutscht [19:22] <Beineri> rabauke: and most new kde application names don't start with k anyway [19:22] <rabauke> kdelib starts with kde even without prefix [19:23] <Beineri> kde4-konqueror-plugins should likely follow the rename of kde4-konqueror to konqueror :-) [19:23] <rabauke> make sure that searching for "kde" in yast finds them. not like the subversion package which was not found if one searched for "svn" [19:23] <Beineri> rabauke: the summary is searched by default imo [19:24] <Beineri> "This is foo plasmoid for KDE Plasma" ;-) [19:24] <rabauke> I'm checking that ATM [19:25] <Beineri> but no problem to change the package summaries [19:25] <rabauke> yep, summary is searched by default [19:25] <remur_030> btw where is the difference from plasma-* to plamoid-*? [19:26] <rabauke> "theme for plasma (KDE)" would be another alternative [19:26] <Beineri> s/kde4-plasm/plasm/g/ [19:26] <remur_030> javier_: ping [19:26] <javier_> here i am [19:26] <rabauke> plasmoid=widget I guess [19:26] <Beineri> remur_030: the upstream module tarball is called "plasma-addons" - it's a bundle of plasmoids :-) [19:26] <Beineri> remur_030: and some theme in build service are called plasma-theme-* [19:26] <Beineri> resp. plasma-theme-aya in factory [19:27] <rabauke> plasma widget= plasmoid, plasma theme = palsma theme... [19:27] <bitshuffler> Beineri: well, that's a theme and not a plasmoid [19:27] <Beineri> rabauke: plasma theme != palsma theme ;-) [19:27] <bitshuffler> personally I really like -theme -style -whatnot since it groups all the different stuff [19:27] <rabauke> yep [19:27] <Beineri> nobody talks about dropping "-theme" :-) [19:28] <remur_030> javier_: about your AIs, do you know about the plasmoid for firefox-plugin? [19:28] <bitshuffler> oh well, got you wrong then, sry :) [19:28] * remur_030 got confused [19:28] <javier_> regarding PlasmaNotify, ademmer told me that he will make a package as soon as possible [19:28] <Beineri> if nobody objects ;-) [19:28] <remur_030> javier_: * make sure plasma notify firefox add-on and Firefox Oxygen skin are packaged, for evalution of inclusion (javier_) [19:28] <remur_030> javier_: thanks =) [19:29] <javier_> np :) [19:29] <Beineri> AI Beineri: s/kde4-plasm/plasm/g/ package names, rename kde4-konqueror-plugins [19:29] <rabauke> are we at misc topics yet? [19:29] <Beineri> if nobody objects to the AI ;-) [19:30] <Beineri> 5) Q&A, misc [19:31] <javier_> remur_030: the other AI [19:31] <javier_> Beineri: did you talk about it? [19:31] <rabauke> would it make sense to offer a one-click that has the community and maybe even the playground repo available, i.e. not active but in the list of repos? [19:31] <javier_> sorry for being late :( [19:31] <rabauke> currently one has to add those two repos before one can use the one click to update [19:31] <remur_030> javier_: the others are covered, Beineri said about the space thing, cb400f about the oxygen ff theme [19:32] <rabauke> if possible one could add a text to the one-click to explain what those repos are. [19:32] <Beineri> rabauke: didn't you open a fate request about it already? [19:32] <javier_> ok, I was referring to the space thing (dolphin) [19:32] <rabauke> Beineri: no. [19:32] <rabauke> Beineri: and that was about setting priorities. [19:33] <Beineri> oh, that was about KDE:KDE3 @ https://features.opensuse.org/306733 [19:33] <remur_030> I suggested :KDE3 added to the community repository list, why not do the same for KDE4:Community and Playground? [19:33] <remur_030> Beineri: yes that one [19:34] <rabauke> is that really the same issue I am refering to? [19:34] <remur_030> I am not sure, you want the 1-click modified as i understood it [19:34] <Beineri> rabauke: anyone can write .ymp, or let the build service produce them in kde:kde4:community for you :-) [19:36] <remur_030> rabauke: the community and playground repository organisation is somewhat messy anyway, do we want people to add these with 1click? [19:36] <rabauke> if one has community and playground repos for KDE42 using the one click for KDE:Factory won't work because there might be apps that need the old kde version and are not updated because those repos are lacking. so the one-click for facotry should incluide the community (and playground) repos. the user would only need to tick them. [19:36] <Beineri> remur_030: what's messy about community/playground split? [19:36] <remur_030> Beineri: not the split between these, that's good, I mean the different build targets [19:37] <remur_030> there is not really a better solution, but it's not casual user friendly, the target group for .ymp [19:37] <rabauke> a lot of people are using community, e.g. for plasmoids [19:37] <Beineri> one-click is not really good for (corner) upgrade cases :-( [19:38] <rabauke> the priorities are another issue but offering the community repo would help already. [19:38] <remur_030> rabauke: well in this setting the 1click install can't remove the other repositories anyway [19:38] <Beineri> and even works less if you have some other kde obs repositories additional to distro repo [19:39] <Beineri> rabauke: osc meta pattern KDE:KDE4:Community [19:40] <Beineri> rabauke: osc meta pattern -e KDE:KDE4:Community Rabaukes-YMP [19:40] <rabauke> remur_030: it does not have to since the version is lower anyway. only prios are still an issue. [19:40] <Beineri> and bug benJIman about priorities etc if one-click doesn't support it :-) [19:41] <remur_030> rabauke: how is the version lower, it's the same on all repositories, but the rebuild number is different [19:41] <rabauke> remur_030: kde 4.2 against kde factory [19:41] <rabauke> i.e. 4.3 [19:42] <rabauke> or 4.1.3 aka STABLe against factory [19:42] <remur_030> yes, but what about krusader2.0.0-17 (:42) vs. krusader2.0.0-12 (:Factory) [19:42] <rabauke> that's a corner case ;) [19:43] <remur_030> I don't know, this sounds like just another layer of patches but not fixing the general problem [19:43] <Beineri> everything should be backward compatible :-) [19:44] <remur_030> I am no fan of the .ymp anyway so I guess it's not my call, but this just creates a mess in peoples repository list they never learned to handle [19:44] <rabauke> I'll try to edit a ymp and file fate request for the rest [19:44] <Beineri> so, will we solve all those problems now - or are there any other questions? [19:45] <Beineri> then let's end the meeting and have the next one in two weeks at same time. [19:46] <Beineri> hopefully with some people more ;-) [19:46] <remur_030> +1, it was productive though, you were right Beineri