KDE/Meetings/2008 04 16-transcript

From openSUSE

[20:06:41] Topic	dirk setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "Welcome to the openSUSE KDE IRC Meeting!".
[20:06:59] <dirk>	Topics:
[20:07:02] <dirk>	* old action items
[20:07:06] <dirk>	* status
[20:07:20] <dirk>	* KDE 4 blocker list revisited
[20:07:23] <dirk>	* misc
[20:07:26] <dirk>	anything else?
[20:07:55] <wstephenson>	+ organising community QA
[20:09:08] <dirk>	seems not.. lets start
[20:09:11] <dirk>	* old action items
[20:09:21] <dirk>	http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Meetings/20080326
[20:09:27] <dirk>	* improve kde building guide
[20:09:31] <dirk>	Bille?
[20:10:00] <wstephenson>	i'm working on it during the meeting. i have a virgin 10.3 install and am documenting the steps needed to build trunk using our qt44 and kdesupport packages.
[20:10:15] 	 * wstephenson looks for applause.
[20:10:27] <Seli>	clap, clap :) ?
[20:10:39] 	 * Beineri would rather say "concentrate on the meeting"
[20:10:41] <wstephenson>	Seli: you don't have to clap, you're injured. but thanks anyway
[20:10:54] <wstephenson>	next
[20:11:04] <dirk>	* topics for akademy talks
[20:12:00] <dirk>	I have not had time to think about it.. deadline is fairly soon though
[20:12:13] <wstephenson>	sharing stuff with gnome.
[20:12:49] <wstephenson>	i think we need to discuss this with upstream
[20:13:09] <Seli>	that doesn't really sound like a topic for talk though
[20:13:17] <wstephenson>	more a discussion
[20:13:59] <wstephenson>	in order to make this topic useful to both desktops we need broad acceptance
[20:14:15] <Seli>	I'll submit something about kwin effects if I don't get any better idea until the deadline
[20:14:36] <wstephenson>	also i'd like it if someone did a talk about design patterns in KDE development
[20:15:04] <wstephenson>	i say that with small d and p because i don't mean the GoF book, but rather the common patterns in our codebase
[20:15:12] 	 * dirk would like a talk about how rewriting code doesn't necessarily make it better
[20:15:24] <dirk>	:)
[20:15:27] <wstephenson>	with a goal of sharing what we know and improving the quality of code coming from newer contributors
[20:16:09] 	 * cb400f remembers carewolf blogging about "the development model or replacing something that works with a good idea".. could make an interesting talk also
[20:16:19] <dirk>	wstephenson: sounds more like a topic for a techbase reference though
[20:16:19] <wstephenson>	there's a lot of stuff we do that is more than a coding convention but still general purpose enough to teach as a technique that is generally applicable across KDE
[20:16:42] <wstephenson>	dirk: yes it would need to get a permanent home on techbase
[20:16:57] <wstephenson>	however presenting it at akademy is a great way to draw attention to it
[20:17:21] <wstephenson>	think about the debugging talk at kastle for example
[20:18:09] <wstephenson>	anyone else have an opinion?
[20:18:47] <wstephenson>	ah you've all alt-tabbed to youtube. fine ;)
[20:19:42] 	 * dirk listens to silence
[20:19:42] <dirk>	okay
[20:19:54] <dirk>	* script for watching homes for kde apps
[20:19:58] <wstephenson>	Beineri: kde on small screen devices?
[20:20:18] <Beineri>	what small screen? :-)
[20:20:44] <dirk>	I was tired of waiting for the necessary feature to be implemented in the OBS, so I wrote a hacky script that checks out all of the buildservice and reads through the buildrequires in the spec files
[20:21:19] <dirk>	so it can be considered done.. except that the list of projects need someone going through and contacting people to push their stuff into KDE*:Community
[20:21:23] <dirk>	I'll do that as time permits
[20:21:44] <wstephenson>	cool
[20:22:06] <dirk>	the script mostly DoS'es the build service host,  for about ~ 19 hours until it finished traversing all packages
[20:22:28] <dirk>	* add packaging guideline for kde4 packages
[20:23:06] <dirk>	looks like nobody did anything :(
[20:23:30] <wstephenson>	beta1.
[20:23:33] <dirk>	* talk to zonker / announce bug day
[20:23:49] <dirk>	Beineri?
[20:24:24] <Beineri>	only shortly, he hasn't gone forward with his bug day either ;-)
[20:24:49] <Beineri>	but he saw iirc no conflict in having two running at same time
[20:25:01] <dirk>	what is his bug day about?
[20:25:06] <dirk>	why can't we join it?
[20:25:57] <Beineri>	he wants to do certain topics for each, with "installation" the first one, next time "YaST" and so on...
[20:27:26] <Beineri>	dunno how to continue and if Beta 1 is the right thing to verify stuff working ;-)
[20:28:10] <dirk>	I see
[20:28:20] <dirk>	when is KDE in the list? :)
[20:28:26] <dirk>	(would it be post 11.0 release?)
[20:28:33] <Beineri>	dunno
[20:29:32] <Beineri>	next topic? :-)
[20:29:51] <dirk>	* announce/blog about new round of kdepim packages (bille)
[20:30:30] <wstephenson>	uh?
[20:30:41] <dirk>	I take that as "TBD"
[20:30:44] <wstephenson>	is that an old action item?
[20:30:56] <dirk>	* status
[20:31:10] <dirk>	I have two topics: openSUSE packaging day and the (larger) beta1..
[20:31:25] <Beineri>	wstephenson: no small resolution :-)... http://developer.kde.org/~binner/hp-mini-note.jpg
[20:32:54] 	 * dirk likes the broken knm4 in the panel ;)
[20:33:02] <wstephenson>	knm3 ;)
[20:33:18] <wstephenson>	knm4 just shows a [?] missing icon in the panel.
[20:33:40] <dirk>	regarding packaging day: There were a couple of smaller KDE things packaged, but I haven't seen anything interesting
[20:34:01] <dirk>	(unfortunately, I couldn't diff the output of the home: package list of before and after (see above), so I don't really knwo what was added)
[20:34:52] <dirk>	kdepepo packaged a kwin style at least :)
[20:35:04] <dirk>	.. and found packaging bugs.. which is great
[20:35:17] 	 * Beineri saw some plasma themes getting packaged :-)
[20:35:32] <wstephenson>	good. next time we should announce a wiki page and get ppl to enter themselves.
[20:35:41] <dirk>	really? any interesting? I'm tired of plasma-theme-aya
[20:35:56] 	 * wstephenson helped [slacky] get started with the OBS
[20:36:29] <Beineri>	dirk: http://software.opensuse.org/search?baseproject=openSUSE%3A10.3&p=1&q=plasma-theme
[20:36:56] 	 * toma hopes next time is in a weekend that I'm able to do something with it
[20:38:02] <dirk>	toma?
[20:38:12] <dirk>	it wasn't working for you? you didn't have time?
[20:38:28] <toma>	no time...
[20:39:40] <dirk>	Beineri: very cool :) I'll try them tomorrow :)
[20:39:55] <vanRijn>	Beineri: cool!! is that an eee?
[20:40:11] <wstephenson>	Beineri: any chance you could do a short interview with the kdevelop guy about how OBS helps him?
[20:40:13] <Beineri>	vanRijn: no, see image name :-)
[20:40:22] <vanRijn>	Beineri: heh. duh. =:)
[20:40:28] <Beineri>	wstephenson: mhm, why me? :-)
[20:40:57] <wstephenson>	you're our aseigo
[20:41:41] <Beineri>	mhm? I go regularly to the haircutter
[20:41:50] <wstephenson>	is it just me or do the latches on that hp thing glow blue?
[20:42:06] <wstephenson>	well, you're most visible on the opensuse public sphere
[20:42:21] <Beineri>	wstephenson: that are switches, left power, right wlan
[20:42:23] <toma>	agenda += packaging question akonadi toma ?
[20:42:35] <dirk>	toma: yup
[20:42:54] <dirk>	so... beta1
[20:43:32] <dirk>	we have 4.0.3 now in factory, with selected plasma backports
[20:43:44] <dirk>	I've added python and ruby bindings last week
[20:44:48] <cb400f>	is kde4 kpowersave there?
[20:44:57] <wstephenson>	no
[20:45:20] <dirk>	we have a ported kde4-opensuse-updater
[20:45:22] <wstephenson>	we need something involving danny and hot candle wax there.
[20:45:28] <dirk>	with packagekit backend
[20:45:36] <dirk>	+ a policykit authenticator for KDE
[20:45:54] <dirk>	which allows you to e.g. automatically install security updates (and only them) automatically without having to enter a password, ever
[20:46:10] <dirk>	while still having the choice about buildservice or recommended/optional updates
[20:46:16] <dirk>	this is a great new feature I believe
[20:46:43] <dirk>	I've also submitted the following things for late feature approval:
[20:46:47] <dirk>	* qt 4.4.0 final
[20:46:50] <dirk>	* soprano 2.1 packages
[20:46:54] <dirk>	* cmake 2.6.0
[20:47:08] <dirk>	* fingerprint stuff in kdm4
[20:47:35] <dirk>	* KDE 4.0.4 update
[20:47:48] <KMi>	does qt 4.4 mean that kde 4.0.3 is built against it?
[20:47:55] <Beineri>	yes
[20:48:05] <KMi>	cool
[20:48:25] <wstephenson>	or uncool, unless we get these rendering bugs fixed
[20:48:46] <wstephenson>	we need to sort out either qt or konq there
[20:49:13] <KMi>	don't most users use Firefox anyway?
[20:49:49] <wstephenson>	KMi: i would prefer that that was a matter of choice, not necessity
[20:49:52] <KMi>	at least my experiennce is that KHTML is pretty slow and I don't plan to use konqui until it supports webkit
[20:50:10] <dirk>	KMi: it does, actually :)
[20:50:15] <dirk>	there are even packages available
[20:50:46] <dirk>	we might want to sneak them into 11.0
[20:50:54] <KMi>	oh, what about konqui 4.0.3+qtwebkit? possible? would this resolve the rendering bugs?
[20:51:12] <dirk>	it would solve it but introduce new ones
[20:51:30] <dirk>	qtwebkit does not support the blended widgets (which are causing the rendering glitch with khtml)
[20:51:49] <dirk>	anyway, thats just a bug, so it will get fixed
[20:52:41] <dirk>	anything else to say about beta1? Beineri? Seli?
[20:53:07] <Seli>	nothing important from me
[20:53:18] 	 * Beineri didn't test it yet, but the DVD installation will also offer to install KDE 3.5.9 after long discussions...
[20:53:28] <Beineri>	easily offer that is
[20:53:56] <Beineri>	easily install :-)
[20:53:59] <dirk>	:)
[20:54:01] <cb400f>	\o/  ;-)
[20:54:06] <wstephenson>	i discussed with coolo about knm4
[20:54:24] <wstephenson>	he thinks it is better to fix bugs and release via the build service.
[20:54:46] <KMi>	well, not technicaly part of opensuse, but what about encouraging external packagers (PackMan) to offer opensuse  11 packages?
[20:55:04] <Beineri>	btw, I installed NetworkManager-gnome on about machine after having installed the default KDE setup and it said it would have to download additional 1.8MB iirc
[20:55:08] <Beineri>	above even
[20:55:09] <dirk>	KMi: I assume they will.. or do you mean beta packages?
[20:55:23] <cb400f>	KMi: not unlikely they'll start building a few packages for b1
[20:55:30] <wstephenson>	Beineri: ok. not too bad, if it comes to that.
[20:55:37] <cb400f>	they usually start to mess with it around this time
[20:55:43] <Beineri>	wstephenson: well, plan c
[20:55:55] <KMi>	i meant their regular repositories
[20:56:12] <KMi>	b1 seems like a good time to begin packaging
[20:56:34] <KMi>	+it would increase the chance for b1 adoption
[20:56:41] <KMi>	resulting in more bug reports
[20:57:09] <dirk>	possible.. it is unclear if beta1 will be good enough for daily use yet though
[20:57:18] <dirk>	there are many bugs at the moment that make it totally unfun
[20:57:27] <dirk>	but we'll see, I agree about this with beta2 definitely
[20:57:49] <dirk>	okay, can we quickly go over to the next topic?
[20:57:57] <dirk>	* kde on 11.0 blocker list revisited
[20:58:12] <dirk>	we're talking about http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/KDE_on_openSUSE11.0
[20:58:41] <dirk>	wstephenson: so I take your last comment as that you're no longer objecting to removing knm from the blocker list?
[20:58:51] <wstephenson>	dirk: correct
[20:59:13] <Beineri>	did will ever? :-)
[20:59:19] <dirk>	yep
[20:59:25] <dirk>	anyway.. so next topic
[20:59:29] <dirk>	* translation stuff (dirk)
[20:59:50] <dirk>	this is in flux.. I'm working on it but progressing slowly.
[21:00:02] <dirk>	I expect most of it to be done until next week monday though
[21:00:19] <dirk>	strings are almost extracting at least.. which means I can submit a pot file for opensuse translations today or tomorrow
[21:00:25] <cb400f>	about that.. what would be the "deadline" to translate kdepim41 upstream for openSUSE inclusion?
[21:00:29] <dirk>	we need to clean up the submitted pot list
[21:00:38] <dirk>	cb400f: goldmaster? :)
[21:01:00] <dirk>	cb400f: I plan to add kdepim translations with the next snapshot update
[21:01:30] <cb400f>	ok.. but when will be the last update of those from svn before gm?
[21:01:44] <dirk>	script is ready.. just that the package doesn't build yet due to filelist fiddling.. annoying and time consuming but I'll get it done (each run takes ~ 5 hours so I'm not getting that fast through it while the topic isn't complicated)
[21:02:10] <dirk>	cb400f: RC1
[21:02:17] <dirk>	cb400f: selected changes can be taken at any later time
[21:02:20] <cb400f>	ok
[21:02:53] <dirk>	* theming
[21:03:05] <dirk>	http://i27.tinypic.com/2jc8nzc.png
[21:03:25] <dirk>	this is our current theme, with the 10.3 artwork
[21:03:26] <Beineri>	is not fully up-date-date ;-)...
[21:03:30] <dirk>	(there is no 11.0 artwork)
[21:03:38] <Beineri>	kwin branding is missing and system tray looks different now
[21:04:12] <cb400f>	systray looks sweet on the HP mini image
[21:04:13] <dirk>	I think the panel looks differently grey than the rest of the apps
[21:04:25] <dirk>	I'm not sure if I like that
[21:04:40] <wstephenson>	kde4 kmail 'branding' is broken. is that an upstream problem or related to the branding plicy?
[21:04:43] <KMi>	the windows on the screenshot need more green
[21:04:51] <cb400f>	atleast much better than the icons with different coloured background
[21:05:17] <Beineri>	wstephenson: upstream
[21:05:18] 	 * Seli would prefer the panel with the same color like apps too
[21:05:22] <KMi>	-> replace blue with suse-compatible green
[21:05:43] <dirk>	KMi: you mean the window decorations?
[21:05:52] <dirk>	KMi: they were always blue though.. :)
[21:06:00] <dirk>	a darker / different blue though
[21:06:19] 	 * dirk doesn't particularly like the window deco buttons
[21:06:19] <Beineri>	Seli: create a new plasma theme :-)
[21:06:34] <KMi>	yes, i mean window decorationa nd "select" color. that blue annoyed me in 10.3. as well
[21:06:49] <dirk>	Beineri: the discussion is not about Seli's own plasma colorisation but about our default
[21:07:02] <Beineri>	dirk: someone has to do the work
[21:07:04] <dirk>	Beineri: so if you don't like the suggestion then you should say why
[21:07:33] <wstephenson>	Seli: has there been any interaction since the fork with the oxygen team?
[21:07:35] <Beineri>	no sense in discussing switching to something that doesn't exist
[21:07:37] <dirk>	KMi: but you need something that has a contrast to the wallaper background.
[21:07:51] <Seli>	wstephenson: no, except for tackat complaining
[21:07:53] <dirk>	KMi: agree?
[21:08:12] <Beineri>	and Jimmac, as artist and supposed to have taste, doesn't feed us
[21:08:15] <Seli>	wstephenson: but since it'll show up in the commit digest this weekend, I expect something after that again
[21:08:24] <^^MAg^^>	making panel gray and having white icons in system tray is ugly
[21:08:43] <wstephenson>	Beineri: let's invite jimmac to our next meeting then
[21:08:56] <Beineri>	wstephenson: that's post Beta2 dead lineß
[21:08:57] <Beineri>	?
[21:09:11] <wstephenson>	^^MAg^^: you mean the icon backgrounds?
[21:09:23] <wstephenson>	that's not intentional
[21:09:27] <KMi>	dirk: no, i don't. i've set it to green and imho it now looks more natural
[21:09:28] <^^MAg^^>	yes, on dikr screenshot they are not transparent
[21:09:30] <wstephenson>	Beineri: ok, we'll have to do it sooner
[21:09:44] <KMi>	the windows are still distiguishable from the wallpaper
[21:10:05] <dirk>	KMi: want to submit your palette for enhancement? :)
[21:10:10] <KMi>	default kde has blue deco and blue wallaper ;)
[21:10:23] <dirk>	I'm not tied to the blue at all.. a decent green would be fine as well
[21:10:31] <dirk>	(except that artists don't like green.. )
[21:11:04] <^^MAg^^>	good artwork is now 50% value when people compare distributions :>
[21:11:43] <KMi>	stupid question: were is the color file saved?
[21:12:19] <dirk>	I think it is part of kwinrc.. Seli, do you know off-hand?
[21:12:35] <Seli>	let me check, I think it's kdeglobals
[21:12:42] <KMi>	or can i just post my hex values here?
[21:12:53] <dirk>	fine as well
[21:13:07] <KMi>	selection background: #349C49
[21:13:19] <dirk>	^^MAg^^: I agree.. now, can you write that in an email and post it to opensuse-project@opensuse.org? :)
[21:13:23] <KMi>	selection inactive text: #7BB67E
[21:13:41] <dirk>	^^MAg^^: artist resources are fairly minimal for openSUSE, to put it positive
[21:13:41] <KMi>	fine with me
[21:13:57] <Seli>	kdeglobals:[WM]
[21:16:38] <KMi>	sent the email. subject is "Greenish color theme for openSUSE"
[21:16:58] <dirk>	to opensuse-kde@ ?
[21:17:32] <KMi>	um, you said opensuse-project@opensuse.org a few minutes ago
[21:17:41] <dirk>	oh, I was talking to ^^MAg^^ :)
[21:17:42] <KMi>	oops
[21:17:46] <KMi>	that was to mag
[21:17:50] <dirk>	yep
[21:17:58] <dirk>	regarding "good artwork is 50% value"
[21:18:22] <KMi>	selection background: #349C49
[21:18:22] <KMi>	selection inactive text: #7BB67E
[21:18:22] <KMi>	focus decoration: #329B3C
[21:18:22] <KMi>	hover decoration: #63E96E
[21:18:22] <KMi>	active titlebar: #46A14F
[21:18:33] <KMi>	now you have it here
[21:19:10] 	 * dirk likes it.. a bit too dark though for my taste
[21:20:19] <KMi>	oh, btw: i didn't try how those colos blend with the themeable yast. i still use 10.3
[21:21:07] 	 * dirk will try
[21:21:13] <dirk>	okay.. next topic..
[21:21:20] <dirk>	* first-time KDE4 configuratio migration wizard
[21:21:45] <dirk>	I've started thinking about it a bit during the kdevelop meeting last weekend, and I made a sort of ugly mockup
[21:22:01] <dirk>	it doesn't have any functionality yet, but it launches by starting "kde4-migrate" (no menu entry)
[21:22:09] <dirk>	something for beta2..
[21:22:28] <dirk>	I wouldn't like to put it as blocker though
[21:22:39] <dirk>	I treat it as important/nice to have.. comments?
[21:23:08] <wstephenson>	how do you plan to do app data/wallet migration?
[21:23:45] <dirk>	by a configuration file
[21:24:06] <dirk>	it will list the number of files to copy and optionally adjust (e.g. path adjust, config key etc)
[21:24:34] <dirk>	the wizard allows the user to select/deselect and investigate what it will do, and then let it perform that operation
[21:25:25] <dirk>	* kdepim 4.1
[21:25:37] <dirk>	a long list.. anything in particluar we want to discuss?
[21:25:56] <dirk>	hmm, most of the stuff is explanation, not action items
[21:26:11] <dirk>	Seli: did you backport the spellchecker stuff?
[21:26:30] <dirk>	wstephenson: did you finish the functionality tests?
[21:27:40] <wstephenson>	dirk: i've been using it 100% this week.
[21:27:46] <wstephenson>	so far so good actually
[21:28:09] <Seli>	dirk: no
[21:28:15] <wstephenson>	apart from the branding and it seems to check mailboxes periodically even if disabled
[21:28:28] <wstephenson>	but i need to test the rest of pim apart from kmail
[21:28:34] <Seli>	what spellchecker stuff, actually, I can't remember at the moment?
[21:29:02] <dirk>	Seli: "backportg by kdepim 4.1 used kdelibs 4.1 api to kdelibs 4.0"
[21:29:14] <dirk>	it is assigned to you in the wiki, not sure why. it was assigned to wstephenson afaik
[21:29:55] <dirk>	okay.. "important to have"
[21:30:00] <dirk>	* kpowersave port
[21:30:05] <Beineri>	because we discussed that Seli would do it? :-)
[21:30:09] <Seli>	I think I said I would help ... I just didn't recognize this when called as 'spellchecker stuff'
[21:30:34] <dirk>	Seli: ah, okay. as far as I know it is only spellchecker interface and "random bugfixes noone knows about"
[21:30:46] <Beineri>	bug T[h]omas
[21:30:55] <dirk>	but wstephenson will find those bugs I guess
[21:31:13] <dirk>	wstephenson: does the spell checking work btw?
[21:32:07] <dirk>	there's not a lot to say about kpowersave port other than "see you with beta2"
[21:32:07] <wstephenson>	dirk: dunno, will check
[21:32:17] <dirk>	* plasma icon on desktop implementation
[21:32:24] <dirk>	Beineri: you improved that quite a bit, whats the status?
[21:32:51] <Beineri>	two things outstanding at least:
[21:33:10] <Beineri>	delete files from ~/Desktop if you delete icons on desktop pointing to them
[21:33:33] <Beineri>	copy files to ~/Desktop if you create/drop an icon
[21:33:59] <cb400f>	duplication of icons is fixed?
[21:34:06] <cb400f>	(on startup)
[21:34:31] 	 * dirk couldn't ever reproduce that .. and I start it up quite often
[21:34:33] <Beineri>	that (always both in sync) should solve the confusion, no implementation of more file management planned
[21:34:48] <Beineri>	dirk: do you use an English desktop? :-)
[21:35:03] <cb400f>	dirk: I have two icons "trash" and "my computer".. only "my computer" is duplicated on every startup
[21:35:20] <dirk>	cb400f: ah, thats why.. I don't have "my computer" :)
[21:35:23] <Beineri>	cb400f: that's a bug(fix)
[21:35:27] <dirk>	Beineri: german actually
[21:35:33] <dirk>	at least for testing
[21:36:07] <dirk>	cb400f: we have to lower user expectations with beta1 to surprise them with beta2, you know :)
[21:36:57] <cb400f>	hehe.. I thought we had to lower expecatations to avoid people running away screaming :-)
[21:37:44] 	 * dirk always suggested to have a slider which the user can adjust based on how much pain he wants to suffer during installation of beta's
[21:38:15] <dirk>	so... do we have new things to add to the blocker / important to have list?
[21:38:32] <toma>	ask for ssh key on login ;-)
[21:38:40] <toma>	passphrase
[21:38:55] <dirk>	toma: do you know "keychain" ?
[21:38:56] <Beineri>	ask for credit card number
[21:39:18] <toma>	dirk: no
[21:39:26] <dirk>	toma: try it :)
[21:39:33] <toma>	thnxs ;-)
[21:39:47] <dirk>	toma: I agree its not a solution, but writing a kde app (well, porting pwmanager) is something for upstream..
[21:39:57] <KMi>	personally I'd like to see that tetris or a similar game is embedded into the installer to keep the user occupied while installing the system (like Caldera Open Desktop did years ago) but I hardly think that that's a blicker ;)
[21:39:59] <dirk>	toma: so you don't want to put mailody on the list? :)
[21:40:17] <dirk>	KMi: try the secret easter egg :)
[21:40:22] <cb400f>	KMi: according to rumours installation is lightning fast now :-)
[21:40:32] <dirk>	KMi: btw, did you see that we made installation faster by 2854498% ?
[21:40:34] <toma>	dirk: if i do, are you guys going to actively hack on mailody?
[21:40:39] <Beineri>	KMi: you can play KPat etc during installation already?
[21:41:05] <Beineri>	just use the live cd :-)
[21:41:13] <KMi>	lightning fast: not if the dvd offers to pull updated packages from the internet while installing
[21:41:27] <KMi>	Beineri: haha
[21:41:50] 	 * cb400f actually played kmines while installing 10.3 on his laptop
[21:41:56] <dirk>	toma: if it can do imap, I might consider switching to it :)
[21:42:28] <dirk>	cb400f: yeah.. adding a flash game while downloading the iso would be the next step
[21:42:41] <toma>	dirk: you can even read newsgroups with it, i just need to finish some details
[21:42:53] <dirk>	toma: can it post to newsgroups? :)
[21:42:57] <cb400f>	:-)
[21:43:09] <Seli>	ok, is that all, as far as the meeting is concerned?
[21:43:13] <Beineri>	any more old/new blockers?
[21:43:13] <toma>	dirk: of course not, nobody does that
[21:43:26] <dirk>	* question and answers
[21:43:28] <dirk>	Seli: almost
[21:43:30] <KMi>	well, i just liked the concept of the old Caldera installer (doing the neccessary configuration while files are copied and later offering to play tetris) but i don't want to waste time with stupid request. ;)
[21:44:01] <dirk>	toma: your akonadi q?
[21:44:18] <dirk>	oh, I forgot one thing
[21:44:30] <dirk>	* organising community QA (wstephenson)
[21:45:52] <wstephenson>	yes, i will put up a wiki page tomorrow for each kde4 module where we summarise how much QA was done so far
[21:46:11] <dirk>	module?
[21:46:14] <Beineri>	there was QA? :-)
[21:46:15] <wstephenson>	so we have a clue where the problems might be and to concentrate our efforts
[21:46:16] <dirk>	or each package?
[21:46:26] <wstephenson>	dirk: packages, grouped by module
[21:46:41] <mrdocs>	that would be useful, so folks running the alphas can poke where needed... often hard to know
[21:46:47] 	 * dirk will test kde4-filesystem :)
[21:47:03] 	 * Beineri did fix it today ;-)
[21:47:23] <dirk>	it would be nice to tag our bugreports by package/module
[21:47:32] <dirk>	then we can generate the list of "todo"s
[21:47:33] <wstephenson>	good idea
[21:48:44] <dirk>	AI: wstephenson: wiki page for kde4 QA
[21:49:28] <toma>	Just a bit of info about akonadi: in the past everything was in kdepim.
[21:49:29] <toma>	A couple weeks back the kde specific lib was moved to kdepimlibs. Soon the 'akonadi/server' part in kdepim will move to kdesupport. This part has no dependencies on KDE.
[21:49:44] <toma>	What's left in kdepim are mainly runtime specific akonadi tools. I would like to ask if you can make sure the resources are packaged seperatly from kdepim (similar to the kio's for example), so external applications can depend on that package, not on the whole kdepim.
[21:50:08] <toma>	You can also package every resource seperatly of course. Might make sense for a news reader not to depend on a package which includes a calendar resource.
[21:51:02] <dirk>	toma: you know the file list of akonadi.rpm?
[21:51:03] <wstephenson>	toma: so kdepim4-akonaditools?
[21:51:25] <toma>	dirk: no
[21:51:37] <toma>	wstephenson: or akonadi-runtime
[21:53:00] <dirk>	toma: http://pastebin.com/m127c0416
[21:53:21] <dirk>	toma: when is the move happening roughly?
[21:54:21] <toma>	dirk: kevin was already working on it, but had to leave to the desktop summit, i think he will wrap it up soon ( < 4 weeks )
[21:55:15] <dirk>	how about we split off an akonadi-server package tehn that has no kde dependency?
[21:55:16] Notice	-christel- [Global Notice] Hi all, There will be some slight disturbance as I attempt to kick a desynced server back into the correct dimension, hopefully this will take but a minute. Thank you for using freenode and have a great day!
[21:55:22] <toma>	dirk: ok, that file list looks good to me
[21:55:36] <dirk>	toma: it contains resources though
[21:55:56] <dirk>	toma: I suggest you file a bugreport about how we should split the package
[21:55:57] <toma>	ah this is all of kdepim, right?
[21:56:28] <dirk>	toma: we can't do it in 4 weeks.. we have to get it roughly right within the next 2 weeks if it is supposed to be anything for opensuse 11.0
[21:56:41] <dirk>	toma: but imho its something we can fix after 11.0 anyway..
[21:56:53] <toma>	dirk: oki, i will ask kevin
[21:57:07] <dirk>	toma: it doesn't have to be done upstream until then
[21:57:13] <dirk>	toma: just the packaging from our side, to be clear
[21:57:21] <toma>	exactly
[21:57:22] <dirk>	it can still be built as part of kdepim, no problem with that
[21:57:45] <toma>	i will file a br if needed
[21:57:46] <dirk>	* anything else?
[21:58:01] <toma>	do you want the resources in one packages or separate ?
[21:58:24] <dirk>	separate, probably per dependency
[21:58:30] <dirk>	(e.g. those that pull in kde sutff and those that don't)
[21:59:00] <toma>	roger
[21:59:22] <dirk>	okay, no other topic..
[21:59:25] <dirk>	see you in two weeks then
[21:59:32] <dirk>	April 30th, 18:00 UTC
[21:59:59] Topic	dirk setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "The channel for the KDE community in openSUSE | Next meeting: April 30th, 18:00 UTC | http://opensuse.org/KDE4 | http://opensuse.org/KDE/Upgrade | http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kde/".