KDE/Meetings/2008 02 14-transcript

From openSUSE

<dirk>	* old action items / status report
<dirk>	* KDE:KDE4:STABLE:Community "default" pattern? (dirk)
<dirk>	* other stuff mentioned on above page until then
<dirk>	* increase the visibility of opensuse-devs' contribution
<dirk>	anything else?
<Beineri>	ETIMEDOUT
<dirk>	good
<dirk>	* schedule possible date for next packaging day (dirk)
<dirk>	done, packaging day has been scheduled: http://en.opensuse.org/Packaging/Packaging_Day
<Beineri>	also announced?
<dirk>	in some places, more announcements are needed :)
<dirk>	news.o.o story, mailinglist spam
<dirk>	any help appreciated :)
<Beineri>	AI dirk: announce packaging day in time widely
<Beineri>	also, why are only desktop teams participating?
<dirk>	* improve kde building guide (bille)
<Beineri>	why nobody from core service/packager team?
<dirk>	Beineri: I'll try to get more teams involved
<dirk>	the answer from henne was so far "I can't force anyone to participate"
<dirk>	bille's not here. lets do his ai later
<dirk>	*  ask about bug day and figure out the week day (beineri)
<Beineri>	dirk: are you sure that you look at the right old action items? :-)
<Beineri>	the first one should have been "announce next packaging day for two weeks before beta1 (dirk)" :-)
<dirk>	Beineri: oh, right. sorry
<Beineri>	according to http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Meetings/20080130
<dirk>	* announce kde bug day for day after beta 1, suggestion 19-20 April (beineri)
<dirk>	no announcement seen, right?
<Beineri>	a bit to early to announce it already imo :-)
<dirk>	* script for watching homes for kde apps
<Beineri>	keep that as reminder
<dirk>	not done yet, no time
<dirk>	* participate in Plasma IRC meeting on 9th February and request intermediate release 
<dirk>	participation happened :)
<dirk>	Beineri: any summary? I didn't follow until the end
<dirk>	anything interesting regarding kickoff?
<Beineri>	well, it will be rather two backports of single patches/features for 4.0.2 and 4.0.3
<Beineri>	cb400f: but that didn't happen yet, did someone now already ask translators for OK?
<Beineri>	s/backports/backports days/
<dirk>	Beineri: I've asked tsdgeos to take care of translator's ok
<Beineri>	I don't see anyone asking on kde-i18n-doc :-(
<dirk>	it was not announced yet. I think it goes via aaron
<dirk>	anyway, anything regarding kickoff?
<Beineri>	dirk: regarding kickoff, I will add some missing features of our kickoff back
<Beineri>	iirc I told jpallen two weeks of work (if doing nothing else ;-)
<dirk>	* anyone who wants to work on KDE related topics during hackweek, mail opensuse-kde
<dirk>	hackweek almost over, this ai is done :)
<dirk>	* discuss content of FOSDEM KDE talk before submission deadline 
<dirk>	-> we've discussed something, but I haven't started on slides yet. perhaps over the weekend
<dirk>	* add packaging guideline for kde4 packages
<dirk>	anyone has done anything in that regard?
<Beineri>	nobody had the action item :-)
<rabauke>	does that include their naming?
<Beineri>	rabauke: the kde4- prefix?
<dirk>	rabauke: what do you mean?
<dirk>	Beineri: I think skh wrote documentation for the buildservice. I've to ask her if she did anything in that regard
<rabauke>	things like kde4-kpat not being sensible names IMHO
<Beineri>	rabauke: it should be what instead?
<rabauke>	include cardgame/game and patience
<Beineri>	in the package name? we have summaries, descriptions and rpm groups for that
<rabauke>	IMO they should be next to each other in the yast2 list
<Beineri>	they are if you choose view by rpm group :-)
<rabauke>	I think some packages even include "game", let me check. if so it is not consistent that some do and others don't
<dirk>	in the name?
<dirk>	or in the summary?
<rabauke>	most kde4 packages did not have one last time I checked
<Beineri>	well, if the source package is called gnome-games, bsd-games or kdegames then the package is called so :-)
<rabauke>	so why not call them kdegames-kpatience?
<Beineri>	rabauke: and that you know it's a card game? :-)
<Beineri>	kdegames-kpatience-cards-single-player.rpm
<dirk>	rabauke: how's that different from bash.rpm?
<Beineri>	kdegames-kpatience-cards-single-player-coolos-favorite.rpm
<rabauke>	I would like that but it makes it a bit longer and people looking for cardgames know patience, yet not "pat"
<dirk>	regarding kpat I agree: especially as the gui visible name is "KPatience" iirc
<Beineri>	by default name and summary are searched in yast, and "patience" finds kde4-kpat (as only hit :-)
<dirk>	can we go with renaming kde4-kpat and be done?
<dirk>	to kde4-kpatience?
<rabauke>	yes, stick to the actual app's name
<Beineri>	dirk: I don't think there is a need to rename it
<dirk>	rabauke: any other examples? can you make a list?
<rabauke>	the app is called kpatience so you need a reason not to use it.
<rabauke>	I did not search for any, it just occired to me that I could not select the packages as easy as for kde3, because they are not next to each other in the list.
<rabauke>	but I'll look out for more.
<dirk>	rabauke: we do have patterns
<dirk>	rabauke: so you want a KDEgames pattern, right?
<Beineri>	we have one
<rabauke>	yes, those are better than rpm-groups since those are too many, mixed language and hidden in collapsed trees
<dirk>	AI: rabauke: write a mail to opensuse-kde@ with a proposal/list
<dirk>	* realize new structure for build service repositories we agreed on
<dirk>	done
<dirk>	* announce and document new structure of build service repositories 
<dirk>	done
<dirk>	* ask for addition of new Bugzilla categories for KDE4
<dirk>	done
<dirk>	* discuss with mls what to do with the nsplugins package on x86_64 problem
<rabauke>	kde4-games scheme is "desktop functionality" :) does not sound like games
<dirk>	rabauke: please write a mail, we'll deal with it then. okay? :)
<Bille>	hi all
<dirk>	hi Bille 
<rabauke>	desktop functions to be precise
<dirk>	did anyone see the kdebase3-nsplugins64 post?
<Bille>	sorry i'm late, i've gotten forgetful.
<rabauke>	dirk: yes, that was not meant to continue the topic.
<Beineri>	dirk: where?
<dirk>	good question
<dirk>	on some opensuse mailinglist
<dirk>	basically somebody pointed out that he has flash support by installing the kdebase3-nsplugins64.x86_64 package from buildservice
<dirk>	and coolo confirmed that it worked
<dirk>	which means that we don't have to jump through all the loops we do right now - the flash plugin is laodable in 64 bit context
<dirk>	I don't know exactly why that would work though.. I guess somebody has to double check that
<dirk>	but it would mean that we can get rid of the 32bit nspluginviewer hack
<dirk>	anyone want to grab this AI?
<Beineri>	coolo says it uses nspluginwrapper then
<Bille>	i can check it out, since i've got an x86_64
<Beineri>	dirk: anyway, back to second action item ;-)
<Bille>	dirk: remember which mailinglist?
<dirk>	http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2008-02/msg00084.html
<dirk>	okay, bille gets the ai
<dirk>	AI: Bille: doublecheck and 64bit flash player thing
<dirk>	* improve kde building guide (bille)
<Bille>	no progress. still digging myself out of the work that built up while i was off.
<dirk>	okay, done with old ai's
<dirk>	anything regarding status report?
<Beineri>	Alpha 2 is out :-)
<dirk>	yep
<Beineri>	with KDE 4.0.1 as default desktop
<dirk>	the shower of incoming bugreports is refreshing
<Beineri>	and people are reporting bugs :-)
<Beineri>	dirk: don't complain, that's what we wanted :-)
<dirk>	Beineri: there was no complain
<dirk>	I like bugreports against a fresh codebase much more than one against a code base that is essentially only kept alive by us
<Beineri>	some people couldn't use the CD because of its size, that will be hopefully fixed with Alpha 3
<dirk>	I also like the new bugzilla categories, looks like people found them and use them correctly
<dirk>	too bad that we can't do that retroactively for 10.3
<Beineri>	dirk: why not?
<dirk>	didn't you say that? rename of components doesn't work?
<Beineri>	dirk: well, KDE was also renamed to KDE3 for 11.0 while it already exists
<Beineri>	and adding KDE4 to 10.3 doesn't required KDE/10.3 renamed to be KDE3/10.3
<Beineri>	respective KDE4 Workspace and KDE4 Applications
<Beineri>	but we should check all KDE4 reports against 10.3 if they also apply to 11.0 and move them
<dirk>	Beineri: agreed
<dirk>	so, this week was "hackweek II". anything interesting to report? beineri? bille?
<Beineri>	coolo: any objection against also adding KDE4 Bugzilla categories to 10.3?
<dirk>	I mostly did 4.0.62 update, updating libqt4 to a working 4.4 snapshot, branch updates for KDE 4.0 packages in the buildservice
<dirk>	I've also started kio_sysinfo and kiosktool portings to KDE4
<Beineri>	dirk: and you don't have a hack week project? :-)
<dirk>	and I looked a bit at knetworkmanager 0.7. it will be still a long way to go I'm afraid.
<dirk>	it was more a rewrite than a port, nothing of the old code is there, and a lot is just widgets with no functionality behind it
<rabauke>	dirk: please declare that image in the kiostool "die schranke" as unportable. ;)
<dirk>	Beineri: I don't have a week of time for one project :)
<dirk>	rabauke: yes
<dirk>	rabauke: will be gone
<rabauke>	:D
<Bille>	rabauke: it's being replaced by a little box with a guy selling curried sausages insteadl.
<dirk>	actually, I played on monday with writing it in python, but that needed to fix python-kde4 package
<Beineri>	coolo hacked kdm4 theming to work btw...
<coolo>	Beineri: not just themeing, all of our patches
<dirk>	I've starting packaging kde4 python bindings properly, but the build service is sooo slooooow
<rabauke>	Bille: anything is better than that image. ;)
<dirk>	so I decided against that for now
<dirk>	coolo: did you test 3.5.9 meanwhile? :)
<Beineri>	that is http://idea.opensuse.org/content/ideas/kde-developer-kit
<dirk>	oh, I also helped with KDE 3.5.9 packages
<dirk>	which finally merge kdepim enterprise back into KDE 3.5
<Beineri>	if anyone has ideas what should be on such an image/CD please comment :-)
<Bille>	i've been catching up on akonadi and nepomuk development to write a demo app showing semantically related pim data
<dirk>	.. which means translations for everyone again :)
<coolo>	dirk: no, for some reason I can't rsync over ras
<dirk>	Beineri: pyhon-kde4 :)
<dirk>	coolo: wrong mss size?
<dirk>	Beineri: with a t, even
<coolo>	dirk: I rather think my broken ras setup is the problem
<Beineri>	typo-kde4?
<coolo>	dirk: but you could help me to get kaffeine to work on factory@x86_64 when the meeting is done :)
<dirk>	coolo: It is valentine's day, and I'm not married yet
<Beineri>	some screenshot of the application installer from last year: [1](didn't change much though :-)
<dirk>	coolo: but if it goes quick.. :)
<Bille>	dirk: saying something about romance and married people?
<dirk>	Beineri: I like it :)
<dirk>	Bille: do you need any other proof?
<coolo>	dirk: well, kaffeine can't find a handler for /home/coolo/.kaxtv or the like
<coolo>	it can scan but it can't decode
<Beineri>	coolo: small version (without application icons) would be 200KB
<coolo>	Bille: valentine's day is not romance, but expensive flowers
<Bille>	dirk: maybe coolo wants kaffeine to work so he can sit down and watch romantic comedies with his wife.
<coolo>	Bille: you wish
<coolo>	I got the job to keep the baby calm in the cold sleeping room
<dirk>	Beineri: I've saved 1.6MB from the CD by adding 3 lines to coreutils.spec
<coolo>	and all I have to keep me amused is the laptop
<Beineri>	dirk: add some more!
<Bille>	put the laptop on the baby, and he'll be nice and warm.
<coolo>	dirk: ... that still need to pass the schwabscranke :)
<coolo>	Bille: we have pillows for that
<Beineri>	any more status updates?
<dirk>	hmm, meeting with zonker next week?
<dirk>	okay, thats not a status update
<Bille>	dirk: you mean the meeting in GW i setup?
<dirk>	yep
<dirk>	I'm thinking loudly if there is anything we should not forget to mention
<Beineri>	and we had KDE 4.0.1 packages - surprise!
<dirk>	coolo: before you joined there was the suggestion to rename kde4-kpat to kde4-kpatience btw, to match the user-visible appname
<dirk>	Beineri: we even have 4.0.1 packages iwth branch upates
<dirk>	and 4.0.62 packages!
<Beineri>	kill -SIGCONT `pidof dirk`
<dirk>	 * KDE:KDE4:STABLE:Community "default" pattern? (dirk)
<dirk>	I was trying to remember what that meant
<dirk>	oh right, we wanted to do a pattern for recommendable community packages
<Bille>	that's what i guessed
<dirk>	I didn't do anything regarding that, not even thinking about it if it is a good idea
<Beineri>	what would make a package recommended?
<dirk>	I'll write a mail about it to opensuse-kde
<dirk>	Beineri: for example a package that we might want to add to extra-apps or to default selection
<dirk>	Beineri: or that is being asked but we don't maintain ourselves
<dirk>	for example
<Bille>	Beineri: and our good judgement, whether it is solid and well maintained.
<Beineri>	Bille: "our?"
<dirk>	Bille: no judgement from us for community packages
<Beineri>	anyone write access to KDE:Community can start/change a pattern...
<Bille>	since making a pattern is an endorsement from us. opensuse-kde@
<Beineri>	+with
<Bille>	oic
<Beineri>	Bille: this is about pattern for build service repositories, not in the distribution obviously
<Bille>	Beineri: of course
<dirk>	anyone want to start a pattern?
<dirk>	rabauke perhaps?
<rabauke>	I've never sone anything like that before. But even if, until the middle of march I have no time to spent on non-uni stuff.
<rabauke>	s/sone/done
<Bille>	how about we put it on opensuse/KDE that we're looking for a community pattern maintainer
<dirk>	fair enough :)
<Bille>	then if someone picks it up before rabauke gets out of uni, fine
<dirk>	Bille: good idea, wanna do it?
<Bille>	dirk: sure
<dirk>	* increase the visibility of opensuse-devs' contribution
<rabauke>	that was me, who put it there.
<dirk>	rabauke: your topic :)
<rabauke>	yes
<Bille>	remind me, was that visibility in the community?  from low earth orbit?
<rabauke>	I just noticed that I did not notice any patches submitted by opensuse to e.g. plasma
<Bille>	well, beineri tried...
<Beineri>	rabauke: because there are none? ;-)
<rabauke>	so either there were none, or they were not visible for people reading the ml and being in #plasma consistently.
<rabauke>	hm, ok, then there is not contribution yet. are there no plasma patches from opensuse or why are they not submitted upstream?
<Beineri>	rabauke: there are, but not all are interesting for upstream or there was no time to submit them...
<rabauke>	But then you end up with two püatches for the same issue, in some cases.
<Beineri>	(and to parts of them Plasma god had a negative opinion)
<Beineri>	rabauke: so are you really worried about contributions not visible or patches not being pushed upstream aggressive enough? :-)
<rabauke>	both
<dirk>	I think the general point is right
<dirk>	given that we all have direct svn commit access, we usually commit stuff on our own instead of posting it somewhere
<dirk>	and then again, bugfixes are rarely getting mentioned in the commit digest, only new fancy stuff or flamewars are :)
<rabauke>	I would like to see more of the work you people do on the mailinglists and less opensuse-sepcific patches that establish the need to think about whether an issue is suse specific or not.
<Beineri>	additional point, new features cannot be commited to 4.0 branch (to make it comparible ;-)
<dirk>	(often enough problems that can only be triggered on opensuse are still not opensuse specific though)
<rabauke>	dirk: yes, that's why I think that a lot of contribution foes unnoticed. Although I might be wrong, since I can only talk about plasma.
<dirk>	rabauke: I agree that it is a concern
<dirk>	valid +=
<dirk>	I'm just not sure how to solve it, without even adding a lot of extra work for us
<rabauke>	if you want people to see opensuse as a good kde distro, it might help if they see you fixing lots of things, which you do already, but people don't see.
<Beineri>	and in general, I think some team members could blog more about the stuff they/we are doing ;-)
<Bille>	opensuse-kde-commit-digest
<rabauke>	for plasma you would have to submit a patch to the review board or ml.
<Beineri>	rabauke: and that gets seen by how many people? 10?
<rabauke>	I do not know how many people read the panel-devel
<Beineri>	well, subscribed are 368
<dirk>	rabauke: do you really think however that people choose opensuse because there are a lot of contributions to kde from opensuse?
<dirk>	(that doesn't work with kubuntu that way btw)
<rabauke>	I just know that there are patches and fixes for plasma and I did not see any of them, so that work is not noticed as opensuse contribution to kde. if that cannot be compared to kde in general, fair enough.
<Beineri>	so? we promise each other to blog more and will submit more patches upstream? everyone happy?
<Beineri>	AI dirk: blog
<Beineri>	AI bille: blog
<Beineri>	AI beineri: blog
<Beineri>	AI seli: blog
<Beineri>	;-)
<rabauke>	dirk: I do not know, but kubuntu gets mentioned a lot in regard to spreading kde
<Beineri>	rabauke: for submitting patches?
<rabauke>	no, but patches are a frequent possibility to drop the opensuse term on blogs/mailinglists etc.
<Bille>	community pattern maintainer call AI is done: http://en.opensuse.org/KDE#Packaging - mail to follow.
<dirk>	good point
<dirk>	* misc
<Beineri>	rabauke: only if people know for whom/what distro someone is working. you don't see it in the commit mail
<rabauke>	e.g. there was this blog post by riddell and when I had a look at the comments nobody mentioned opensuse, yet fedora.
<rabauke>	about kubuntu and LTS
<Beineri>	rabauke: well, I didn't feel like attacking him/kubuntu anymore ;-)
<mrdocs>	KDE/QT for that matter and more importantly *not* breaking stuff ;-)
<benJIman>	Planetkde has a very high readership, and lots of suse developers are aggregated there, but it's usually only beineri who blogs about it.
<rabauke>	Beineri: I was thinking more about users telling that they use opensuse.
<Beineri>	rabauke: and you found that's the cause because they didn't identify commits on lists as suse contributions? :-)
<rabauke>	mrdocs: if patches are not send upstream you cannot get credit ;)
<dirk>	Beineri: don't attack him please
<Beineri>	blogging helps
<dirk>	so coolo should blog about kde4 kdm being themed for opensuse?
<Beineri>	why not?
<dirk>	rhetoric question :)
<rabauke>	Beineri: I found that if I would not use opensuse I would not see much of its contribution to KDE and would read more about kubunut etc.
<dirk>	can we keep this as an open topic for next meeting
<dirk>	I'd like to wrap it out..
<dirk>	mrdocs: what?
<mrdocs>	dirk: join #scribus  and ask which distro for Scribus.. you will get not so subtle hints to use suse, gentoo or maybe fedora because Qt generally is not broken
<mrdocs>	whereas on others it can be horribly broken
<dirk>	mrdocs: thanks. after the hours of work we put into it, thats good to hear :)
<Bille>	i'd like to wrap too.
<Beineri>	benJIman: because he writes stories about kde applications sometimes
<mrdocs>	question: when can i feel free to add new kde/qt packages to Community ? criteria ?
<Bille>	but i thought that at long last opensuse was beginning to get more props for what we do, in kde-world.