KDE/Meetings/2007 10 17-transcript

From openSUSE

Topic set to "Welcome to the informal and spontaneous openSUSE KDE IRC meeting: http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Meetings".

<Seli> spontaneous :)
<Beineri> Seli: well, as in "we thought yesterday it would be good to have one" :-)
<Bille> so, the clock just chimed 6 here
<Bille> and i'd like to start the first openSUSE KDE team meeting
<Bille> welcome, everyone
<Bille> actually i misread the topic as 'infamous'
<Bille> but i'll try to keep the contents decent
<dirk> morning
<rabauke> hello
<Bille> so, agenda: 1. Establish what we want to do
<Bille> 2. help people who want to get involved but don't know how, yet
<Bille> 3. find out what everyone thinks of KDE in openSUSE
<dirk> 4. get to know each other :)
<Bille> maybe make that 0. :)
<Bille> any more points? as you can see the agenda is ad hoc, i don't want to impose anything on this first meeting
<Beineri> http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Team meantions some names and IRC nicks
<Bille> Never heard of them.
<rabauke> 5. misc :)
<Bille> always a good one
<Beineri> 6. discuss when/how often to meet
<Bille> anyway, i am Will Stephenson, the most shy and retiring of the KDE team ;)
<dirk> and you just turned even older ;)
<Bille> Beineri has often had to beat me with a stick to get me to blog about what i do
<Bille> which is mostly kdepim and kdenetwork related
<apokryphos> Beineri needs a bigger stick ;)
* dirk doesn't feel beaten so I guess I have to beat myself
<Bille> oh and i'm now the voice of the openSUSE installer - see youtube.
<apokryphos> great/useful video :)
<metavoid> what videos? links are welcome :)
<dirk> are they porn related?
<apokryphos> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyYJoOu6DZ0
<apokryphos> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrMZ-rmNQ4w
<Bille> Seli, dirk and Beineri form the rest of the fulltime team
<metavoid> thanks
<Bille> and tpatzig is our new trainee
<Bille> dgollub graduated from that post quite recently
<Bille> also here from Nuernberg is andred and cornelius, and notlocalhorst.
<Bille> we'll excuse coolo's absence as he is probably looking after mini-coolo right now
<Beineri> cb400f is the famous author of http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php/opensuse-xgl-settings?content=51201
<Seli> actually I think he's here in prague helping beating the yast developers :)
<cb400f> !s/famous/infamous/
<Bille> applause!
<rabauke> clap clap clap
<Bille> rabauke i know from many years of tenacious bug reporting :)
<Beineri> yaloki/guru is sleeping, but when he is not the nalso does package some KDE stuff
<Bille> oh, and i should give a honourable mention to calvin, who is our colleague from the desktop team in provo, from the gnome side.
<dirk> brun0_ used to do an internship at suse in our team, working on KDE4 stuff (PIM related)
<Beineri> brun0_ did some internship here at SUSE recently
<Bille> snap
<Bille> right, goals.
<dirk> bugbot is annoying us day in and day out
<apokryphos> the most dedicated member ;)
* Beineri looks around for some other known faces. hi apokryphos, benJIman, richmoore2, mrdocs ...
<rabauke> hm, I think my reputation is not the best one because of bugzilla, but anyhow. :)
<Bille> my goals: get feedback from our users - not just bug reports - that help us continue to make KDE on openSUSE the best it can be, and reflect our users' needs, so they're happy bunnies
<Bille> also: turn users into developers (waves wand)
<Bille> because it's tough when you have 4 or 5 developers on one side and an infinity of bug reporters on the other side...
<Bille> who's next?
* Beineri wants to encourage people to contribute more KDE packages via the build service :-)
* dirk wants to make sure that openSUSE is the best platform to develop KDE on ;)
<Beineri> http://en.opensuse.org/Wishlist_KDE lists several stuff people are missing packages for
<richmoore2> Beineri: i think one way to do that is to make it clearer how to create the spec file etc. for the build service - the suse spec files are very complex
* Seli is just tagging along :)
<dirk> richmoore2: what in particular do you find coomplex?
<Beineri> (some KDE-related stuff also hide in the other wishlist wiki pages)
<dirk> richmoore2: do you have general knowledge about spec files or is it the suse specific parts onyl that you're not familiar with?
<Bille> hm, haven't seen that list for a while, Beineri, some interesting stuff there
<metavoid> honestly when I'm looking at kde-apps.org I see mostly hackish things (often people reinventing the wheel), so I thing we should make a list with programs that really need to be packaged
<dirk> Beineri: it should probably be KDE/Wishlist ;)
<apokryphos> Beineri: maybe there could be a little 'kde packaging with the obs' howto day (like making the spec file), for people to get started with learning. There are things on that page and kde-apps that could be packaged nicely in K:C
<richmoore2> dirk: when i compare the suse spec files with the ones i write internally ours are much more simplistic (eg. we tend not to do the build root stuff properly and don't use many custom macros)
<Bille> cornelius mentioned earlier that there is no docu/tutorial for complete beginners
<Beineri> Wishlist_KDE contains mainly KDE-desktop specific stuff while Qt-/KDE based applications are listed by their topic in the other lists
<dirk> richmoore2: okay
<dirk> richmoore2: I've started http://en.opensuse.org/Packaging/SUSE_Macros/KDE4_Macros some time ago
<richmoore2> dirk: there's no question your spec files are better, it's just it's not clear how to get from a simple one to a nice suse one :-)
<dirk> richmoore2: but as you can see, the content is quite empty ;(
<dirk> richmoore2: what would help is to mention which specific tags/parts you need help on (perhaps in a wiki page)
<Bille> so an entry point for non-suse packagers as well as one for a complete beginner would help
<dirk> richmoore2: I want to make it easier for KDE4/Qt4 specs over time, we do have quite some hackish stuff
<apokryphos> definitely
<dirk> for older distros
<Bille> eg for somebody who has found sth on kde-apps.org and wants to roll a simple package in the build service to make keeping it installed easier
<metavoid> Beineri: thanks for the tip, there is a bit of them there
<dirk> richmoore2: but for thats it would definitely help to know what areas are lacking the most
<Bille> metavoid: i agree, there's a lot of stuff on kde-apps org which is mainly people learning to code or script a bit, and then putting it up for a bit of recognition - we all do that though
<dirk> as a general information: the beautiful, consistent formatting that suse spec files comes from a script ;)
<dirk> and as another general information: we have some basic quality checking of the packages in the internal build system, which do require the spec file to be at least a certain quality level
<dirk> it is a longer term goal to add those features to the build service, so that everyone can benefit from it
<dirk> I've started that here https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=297050
<bugbot> openSUSE bug 297050 in openSUSE.org (BuildService) "rpmlint integration" [Enhancement,New]
<dirk> but I probably have to kick some more people here (now that 10.3 is done) to make it actually happen
<Bille> speaking of rpmlint, for it to be useful to less experienced packagers, an error message-to-solution mapping would help a lot
<dirk> Bille: see my signature ;)
<richmoore2> dirk: sorry, i'll answer in a second just got dropped into a conference call
<dirk> richmoore2: np
<metavoid> another idea maybe it's worth making a short howto for KDE-specific packages and add it to http://en.opensuse.org/SUSE_Package_Conventions/Specific_Packages ?
<metavoid> examples, common macroses and such
<Bille> yeah, link dirk's page...
<dirk> metavoid: definitely
<metavoid> I think I can help extending it if someone more experineced starts :)
<dirk> metavoid: I'm there to fill the content, if somebody fills in the questions :)
<hype> good idea metavoid
<Beineri> in general, getting an openSUSE Build Service account is easy these days (no more need to justify why you need, it gets enabled automatically). if problems with packaging kde stuff appear we're in that channel 24/7 (well, almost ;-). everyone can try to package stuff in his home: repository but we will also add everyone who asks to the KDE:Community build service project
<dirk> .. which is also another topic we should address at some point: how to move forward with KDE:* repositories
<dirk> e.g. there are quite some home projects etc that have to link in libqt4 for example
<Bille> then you can get fame and fortune seeing your packages appear in everyone's yast after they turn on community repos :)
<dirk> we might want to make that easier
<Jejem> hi guys
<Bille> hi Jejem. we're talking packaging.
<dirk> want to scare him away? ;)
<dirk> hey Jejem
<dirk> metavoid: wanna help me with getting those packaging quirks and knobs to know on a wiki page?
<metavoid> dirk: sure
<dirk> metavoid: great! :)
Part hurra has left this channel ("part").
<Bille> metavoid: are you already packaging things then?
<metavoid> Bille: for a half a year or so
<Beineri> http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-buildservice/2007-09/msg00047.html also requested for some repository to build against qt4
* richmoore2 returns
<Bille> cool. is anyone here who wants to start packaging, who might like to be mentored?
<richmoore2> dirk: looking at the gnome stuff in the Specific_Packages page i think something like that would be a big help
<dirk> Beineri: I've seen there are two ways to do that: via _agregate and via adding a custom repo (that layers over KDE:Qt for example)
<dirk> however I'm unsure which one is best suited for that job
<metavoid> yeah, I created home:nderkach:qt4 as we need a repostotory to build Qt4 packages (SUSE Linux 10.1 has some issues with libqt4, you know)
<apokryphos> Bille: it would be nice if there was a way to easily learn to package little kde things on i.e. appsy to scratch an itch (like for me)
<dirk> metavoid: what did you have to do in addition to what KDE:Qt does?
<Beineri> I think the point is to have some common repository like KDE:Community for stuff that depends on Qt4/KDE4
<Bille> apokryphos: right, that's what i'm thinking of - template spec files for KDE 3 and KDE 4 apps, kommander scripts, styles etc.
<dirk> metavoid: it is essentially supposed to provive a current and stable qt4 for any distro repo that is requested
<richmoore2> Bille: +1 on that
<apokryphos> right
<Bille> apokryphos: basically a KDE Packaging Cookbook
<Bille> (if anyone still collects o'Reillys)
* dirk uses krename.spec and throws everything out that he doesn't need ;)
<hype> i also agrees with apokryphos
<Bille> dirk: dang, i was using kdelibs3.spec ;)
<metavoid> dirk: nothng, just created several custom repositories on top of KDE:Qt
<dirk> that one is way too scary ;)
<apokryphos> Bille: especially since people who contribute a little for themselves originally sometimes will learn and then can do more
<metavoid> dirk: and then make aggregates in several projects poiniting to my packages
<dirk> metavoid: oh, now I see
<dirk> metavoid: so you used :qt4 for things that depend on qt4
<dirk> metavoid: there is a small glitch though: you had to link in cmake manually
<Bille> apokryphos: right, it's just to get a foot on the ladder
<rabauke> would it be useful to have packages for Qt and maybe even KDe that install into a user's home, if that is possible. I tried to setup a KDE4 environment using the system-wide Qt packages and on IRC sb. told me that it will still try to install the plugins into that syste-wide directory, i.e. one has to use KDE's qt-copy and cannot combine packages and self-compiled things.
<dirk> so we should do a KDE4:Devel (whatever the name is) that links in qt4, kde4-filesystem cmake and all the other packages you need to build a KDE4 app?
<metavoid> dirk: yes, cmake is there
<dirk> this would be very helpful in modularizing KDE:KDE4 (which is a huge package mess right now)
<dirk> so people could just aggregate KDE4:Devel then, and get cmake, Qt4, and all other dependencies in just the right version?
<metavoid> dirk: I second your idea
<Bille> rabauke: not sure, they'd have to be root to install the packages anyway, so you're still creating a packaged vs. unpackaged mess, just in /home
<dirk> rabauke: thats not actually true
<Bille> rabauke: afaik the only KDE4 thing installing qt plugins is qca2, if you let it
<dirk> rabauke: I am building KDE4 from source, but have the depending packages from binary packages
<dirk> Bille: which is not an issue, because libqca2 is packaged and available
<Bille> dirk: incl libqca2.rpm?
<rabauke> Bille: yes, it was plugins/crypto
<Bille> dirk: exactly, that's what i do.
<dirk> so perhaps we should advertise more that this is possible, by providing a repo that provides just those packages (and not the KDE4 layer on top of it)
<Bille> aye
<rabauke> Is there anything to add to the techbase wiki in that regard?
<rabauke> I voudl do that
<rabauke> s/voudl/could
<dirk> rabauke: well, its more or less there afaik just people don't read it
<metavoid> what about stable packages for programs written in Qt4, I can't find a suitable place for them, any suggestions?
* Beineri thinks that we will not agree on a well thought repository now and here, but should move that discussion onto the opensuse-kde mailing list.
<dirk> that they basically shouldn't spent so much time on building qca, qt, cmake, or other things that are in kdesupport
<rabauke> dirk: the hint with the plugins?
<Beineri> repository layout even
<Bille> rabauke: you could expand the "building KDE4" guide with openSUSE bits so eg people know to use the kdesupport packages instead of building themselves.
* Bille agrees with Beineri and thinks we should move on from packaging
<Beineri> who will post his initial thoughs/proposal there?
<rabauke> Bille: I'll get back to you on that some time after this meeting.
<Beineri> dirk: you? :-)
<Bille> rabauke: yeah, just work through it once and record your experiences
<Bille> if you get stuck, ping me
<metavoid> well, is the KDE:Community for example an appropriate project for Qt packages? What do you think?
<rabauke> I did twice already, 10.2 and now 10.3 local isntall in a test-user's home
<Bille> cool
<dirk> metavoid: the problem with one buildservice project is that it has to decide on wether to buidl against the distro provided qt or the updated qt we layer on top
<metavoid> dirk: yes, you'd already explained me that earlier
<dirk> metavoid: I know, just recapitulating it again, sorry
<dirk> we've been tossing around with the idea of splitting that and reorganizing it in a better way
<dirk> just we have no big plan yet, and probably don't know all aspects
<dirk> so its one of the tops to start the discussion and then fix the problem
<metavoid> I think this is a major discussion and we should probably bring it to the ML
<Bille> agreed
<Bille> point 4.
<Bille> KDE on 10.3 feedback
<Bille> c'mon, don't be shy!
<Beineri> any annoying bug which doesn't get the attention it needs to have in your opinion?
<Bille> if anyone's not aware, we spent most of our time splitting packages so there was a chance to do the one-CD install, and KDE 4 stuff, so not many new radical features this time...
<Beineri> there should be a first kdelibs3 update these days now (or is it already out)?
<rabauke> except for the quanta bug it works really good. I like the "device is used by app xy" when trying to remove a usb-stick. did not work today though for a DVD that was in use by konsole :)
<Beineri> and we will do at least further updates for amarok (gstreamer playlist stops after one song) and kdebase3 (screenlock related problems) soon
<rabauke> are there known issues with nsplugin?
<Bille> i've got an update for a crash bug in kopete-yahoo!, courtesy of andred
<rabauke> because konqueror did lock up a few times.
<Beineri> krfb4 will also likely see an update once the bugs are fixed :-)
<Bille> rabauke: i'm not aware of any...
<dirk> rabauke: not really, no
<rabauke> I did not find a debuginfo package for it, so I'll try to compile it from the src.rpm.
<dirk> how are people feeling about the work we do in regard to responding to bugreports about KDE on bugzilla.novell.com?
<Bille> rabauke: kdebase3-debuginfo surely
<dirk> rabauke: there is a debuginfo source, but you can also use the one from KDE:KDE3
<rabauke> ah ok, I thought because it was a separate package.
<dirk> (but then you have to update all of KDE, of course)
<rabauke> This time I'll try not to use the build-service, at least for the core packages. I got hit too often when reporting bugs with the "it's your own risk" stick ;)
<metavoid> dirk: what do you mean by responding? It's rather risky for example to close bugs as duplicates... you mean just commenting, right?
<Beineri> if anyone is happy - has anyone tried already the unofficial/mostly untested KDE 3.5.8 and noticed major regressions in there needing attention?
<rabauke> that quanta bug which slows it down to the state of no use will only be fixed in 11.0?
<hype> Beineri: everything works here in this laptop and my desktop...
<Bille> hype: great, means we hid the bugs really good this time ;)
* Bille is Chief Bug Adder in the team ;)
<dirk> rabauke: no, we'll push it out in one of the next online updates
<hype> yep is there anything i should test and report?
<rabauke> regarding your answers. to annoying people like me, you are still one of the friendliest groups that report bugs to.
<dirk> rabauke: if the reporter (that was you?) confirms that the provided test rpm fixes the issue
<dirk> metavoid: I mean just general remarks.. e.g. if we're lazy, unfriendly, not clear enough ec
<rabauke> dirk: I did not yet get a mail from bugzilla with any package-link, let me check
<dirk> rabauke: hmm, I did not either. I'll update it in a second
<dirk> rabauke: probably I forgot to press submit :-)
<harri> dirk: kde4 question: are there many distro-specific utilities that will need to be rewritten before kde 4 could be shipped?
<dirk> sorry, we're trying to hack on KDE4 this week :)
<dirk> and I just returned from vacation and have over 770 bugzilla emaisl to followup to
<metavoid> dirk: I have to say that it's not the case, as for bug reports the KDE Team is the most active
<Bille> harri: hopefully not, since 4.0 won't be complete we'll be able to run things like eg kinternet from KDE 3
<Bille> longer term things like kinternet (if NetworkManager continues not to do everything that people need) and the scpm applet will need rewriting of course
<harri> Bille: if it works standalone that's nice. if it needs to be embedded into the panel(???) that would be different.
<dirk> harri: we have a couple of open tasks, yes
<dirk> harri: knetworkmanager, kpowersave, kerry, kickoff, compiz integration
<metavoid> Bille: so will kiniternet be rewrited for 11.0?
<dirk> harri: although the plan is to do that work upstream
<harri> dirk: power managment would have been one of my questions after using gnome for the first time since years.
<Bille> metavoid: i sincerely hope NM will offer the features we need by 11.0
<Beineri> well, upstream has a rewrite of kickoff as default kde menu
<harri> dirk: that would be really great of course! makes sense for most of the items.
* Bille yays
<metavoid> Bille: your are excessively optimistic :)
<dirk> metavoid: for us the biggest problem is however priorizing the bugs
<rabauke> are you guys also responsible for the suse-windeco?
<Bille> rabauke: uh, yeah
* Beineri started touching Kerry today, porting first
<Bille> Beineri: petting the dog?
<dirk> metavoid: e.g. finding the "important" bugs and fix them first
<rabauke> Bille: ok, it lacks a button, I think the "always keep on top" one, is there a reason for that or should I file it as an enhancement request?
<Seli> rabauke: file a bugreport
<rabauke> ok
<Bille> i can't imagine it's hard to add, i see it's marked (unavailable)
<dirk> rabauke: its actually a community person maintaining it, but I'm helping with it as I have time
<dirk> rabauke: but again, make it a bugreport
<rabauke> will do
* Beineri thinks we will have enough todo to help KDE4 and port our additions to make a KDE4 desktop on openSUSE 11.0 have the same functionality as the default KDE 3.5 setup on 10.2...
<Bille> is anyone using the yauap engine with amarok?
<Bille> also, how is kdepim enterprise branch working for you?
<dirk> Bille: did you read your bugzilla folder? ;)
<Beineri> ... still is there anything that you think is missing in KDE desktop on 10.3 which we/someone else should target for KDE on 11.0?
<Bille> free ponies for everyone?
<metavoid> Beineri: usability
<rabauke> kmail's filtering got faster, at least in my imagination :)
<Bille> rabauke: IMAP?
<Beineri> Bille: no, more something like "Xgl configuration/switch as kcm module" ;-)
<rabauke> no pop3
<Beineri> metavoid: without being more specific, it's more a buzzword :-)
<Bille> good, because i still find imap filtering completely awful.
<rabauke> Bille: I tried it and gave up, too many bugs to cc myself too or file...
<apokryphos> Beineri: yeah, apparently it should be easier now with kconfig compiz backend
<Bille> if anyone is 'good' at usability, or just fussy, the KDE 4 HIG hunting effort could use some help.
<apokryphos> compiz fusion is quite widely used now; we should make the setup/handling experience easier IMO
<rabauke> kmails speed and ui freeze is really bad for KDE's impression. I once used thunderbird with imap and...well, it was fast
<metavoid> Beineri: yes, I see, that's why I'm looking forward to KDE4, I hope it will be improved there
<Beineri> apokryphos: which is only about compiz configuration itself, or? not about saying "your graphic card is not supported" or "click here to switch to Xgl/Aiglx"
<apokryphos> Beineri: right, it's not. A button like that is very much needed :)
* Beineri scans apokryphos' list at http://google.com/notebook/public/14728803852035731587/BDSe5QgoQva6Wy9gi for KDE related stuff
<rabauke> Why can one not mount a stick or whatever outside /media?
<Bille> metavoid: i'm looking at a kde4 kopete now, i think you'll be pleased
<rabauke> i.e. via the kicker-applet
<notlocalhorst> the default settings of kde are quite annoying ... there should be a "i know kde" button which disable all the help crap and automenue and all windows in kicker and and and ... just use my personal settting :-)
<apokryphos> Beineri: I don't think that would be too much work either since the gnome CC manager just uses the xgl hardware blacklist file, etc. Perhaps it could be made to work with fusion-icon
<Beineri> one point apokryphos has is "Port YaST to Qt4?" - do people care if next version will have a Qt4-based YaST or still Qt3?
<hype> second that notlocalhorst...
<dirk> apokryphos: can you be more specific what has to be improved?
<Bille> notlocalhorst: how about we add a User slider to kpersonalizer - with ESR's granny at one end and you at the other?
<rabauke> that would be something useful in my opinion since user's might want to have their external harddisk, i.e. music etc within their home.
<dirk> notlocalhorst: you're not requesting "focus follows mind" checkbox?
* Beineri fully agrees with "* Market openSUSE as THE kde option" :-)
<fredrikh> Beineri: it will look out of place when you use Qt4 styles
<notlocalhorst> Bille: we had that with kde3 in the beginning for the effects iirc ...
<dirk> apokryphos: probably not here, but in a bugreport. I'll do another round of compiz stuff for 11 for sure
<metavoid> Beineri: Qt4 offers much more eye-candy and speed, so - yes
<Bille> notlocalhorst: right
<apokryphos> dirk: i.e. GNOME have had a gnome CC module for ages now that makes it very easy to switch to Compiz+Xgl, but kde has nothing :o
<Beineri> fredrikh: so you want YaST with Oxygen style :-)
<apokryphos> Beineri: more capabilities for theming in the installer, yeah 8)
<dirk> apokryphos: we also have, its just better integrated/hidden ;)
<dirk> apokryphos: it doesn't allow you to select any option, okay
<Bille> Beineri: oh yes!
<apokryphos> dirk: ..which is the problem, yes ;)
<rabauke> What about the default size for the "open file dialogue" why is it so tiny and the icons on the left set to small too?
<fredrikh> Beineri: i'm not a big fan of oxygen, so not really... but there are those who are, and there will be other Qt4 styles :)
<hype> Beineri: isnt everyone want yast with oxygen....?
<Bille> rabauke: i think monitors and fonts got larger...
<Beineri> rabauke: that sounds like a default setting question - which can be discussed much later and doesn't require much effort to change :-)
<Bille> rabauke: we should change the default size. the file dialog is on the whiteboard behind me as one thing to look at this week....
<rabauke> hype: oh, yes. get rid of those grey icons!
<rabauke> Bille: does that include the one from within Openoffice?
<Bille> rabauke: that's a funny one, i would have to ask kendy about that.
<Seli> Bille: the ooo file dialog is an external kde helper app
* Beineri read some review of 10.3 recently where the author complained about KDE apps looking foreign on a GNOME desktop (while vice versa it's looks better). I think that while we should push KDE as desktop as a whole we should also push our GNOME friends to have KDE apps looking good on the GNOME desktop.
<Beineri> that was about very different widget style, colors, and fonts
<hype> Beineri: when kde4 is finished ther will be no more gnome users...
<Beineri> hype: I think that's a hype ;-)
<hype> hehe
<benJIman> Wait for SP1
<notlocalhorst> even gnome apps look foriegn on a gnome desktop ... :-)
<Bille> miaow!
<benJIman> notlocalhorst: Only because there arn't actually any gnome apps.
<benJIman> Only several GTK apps.
<notlocalhorst> right
<notlocalhorst> thats why its the better desktop ... sigh
<Jejem> :)
<Bille> how do you find the KDE opensuse-updater?
<notlocalhorst> nice!
<Beineri> better than 10.2
<dirk> Bille: in the taskbar?
<Bille> (that's me speaking german english)
<benJIman>
<Bille> i meant, what do you think of it
<fredrikh> Beineri: choosing cleanlooks as the default widget style should accomplish that
<hype> Bille: works great.
<fredrikh> Beineri: if the user hasn't configured a different one of course
<dirk> benJIman: oh, you can be sure that this is the most hated bug and the yastie's are beating up on it
<Beineri> Bille: if it will be able to ignore/hide specified updates it will be almost perfect :-)
<dirk> benJIman: but its not going to change anymore for 10.3
<fredrikh> Beineri: could go with style()->standardPalette() too
<rabauke> benJIman: ;) nice shot. mine were a bit smaller.
<benJIman> dirk: I know, I could fix it if It bothered me that much.
<Bille> reminds me of 10 ?"There are no installable providers of"; 20 goto 10 ;)
<dirk> yay, we're above 50 people :)
<dgollub> anybody used kitchensync or kdebluetooth in 10.3 so far?
<Jejem> 51
<hype> too bd that only about then are speaking...
<Beineri> dirk: looking at the 10.3 install stats there should be way more though ;-)
<dgollub> or kryptomedia? *fear*
<benJIman> Beineri: That's because #suse is KDE support.
<Bille> (that's the thing that lets you mount encrypted USB sticks, btw - give it a go if you havent already) :)
<Beineri> dgollub: those people now unable to read their hard drives anymore will not be on irc ;-)
<dirk> dgollub: tpatzig did some new features on kryptomedia
<dirk> has anyone discovered them in 10.3 ? :)
<hype> x
<Bille> dirk: did he do them while i was off on my travels?
* Beineri discloses that the percentage of people having installed only KDE as desktop has increased with 10.3 (likely due to the single install CDs)
<Bille> hey kl_eisbaer :)
<pipitas> Hi, I arrived late.... Is your 'formal' meeting over already? Will you publish an IRC log somewhere?
<kl_eisbaer> Hi Bille ;-)
<Bille> hi pipitas. yes, we'll put up a log somewhere under /KDE
<Beineri> pipitas: we didn't find the end yet. and we will have a log, sure.
<cv> kde 4 should make it easier to create a sendmail server for emails from anywhere to anywhere without authoritation
<rabauke> regarding the opensuseupdater. could it place its notification above kicker/the panel and not hide it underneath?
<Bille> pipitas: we're on to the 10.3 KDE feedback item
<Beineri> cv: sounds more like a YaST feature request
<cv> nicer
<dirk> kl_eisbaer is a person we have to very nice to, otherwise we can't get new packages into openSUSE:Factory :)
<Bille> rabauke: hm, have you got a kicker that can be hidden by other windows?
<dirk> += be
<rabauke> Bille: yes
<pipitas> so all discussions about "how to start contributing to the build service?" are over?
<kl_eisbaer> dirk: psst ;-)
<Bille> rabauke: BR it then :)
<Beineri> but a future version of openSUSE will likely allow users to make certain configuration tasks (like printer configuration) without having to type the root password
<Bille> pipitas: yep
<dirk> pipitas: for today, yes
<rabauke> Bille: BR?
<dirk> pipitas: we can talk about at any time later though if there is anything missing
<dirk> pipitas: we aready collected quite some action items
<Bille> rabauke: Bug Report
<rabauke> Bille: ok
<rabauke> dirk: I can only find kdepim and kitchensync in your repo
<Bille> ok, shall we wrap up the formal part now?
<Bille> AI: Bille to put up irc log later tonight
<Beineri> Bille: let's discuss if to meet again, when, how often, ...
<Bille> oh one more thing
<Bille> frequencey etc
<Bille> yes
<dirk> rabauke: oh, I screwed that up
<dirk> rabauke: I'll fix it
<Beineri> if we need more formal plannig on mailing list / wiki before ;-)
<dirk> rabauke: give me a few more minutes
<Bille> so my suggestion is to have a bi-weekly meeting at this time/date
<rabauke> dirk: take your time. I just wanted to make sure that I am not doing something wrong and leave you wating after bugging you that much. :)
* Beineri pleads for meeting announcement more in advance ;-)
* dirk agrees
<Bille> i assume everyone here is ok for the time, but i suggest we ask the question on the list for folks in other timezones
<dirk> but after all, we're informal, right? :)
<Bille> dirk, Beineri: regular meeting or informally announced as needed?
<rabauke> who's responsible for sysinfo:/?
* dirk raises hand
<rabauke> white font on bright yellow is hard to read :)
<dgollub> DTSTART:20071020T230000Z;RRULE:FREQ=WEEKLY;BYDAY=SA;INTERVAL=2
<dirk> rabauke: you have a 50% full volume?
<Beineri> Bille: bi-weekly should be sufficient. but what about meeting on the week-end?
<dirk> or at another time
<dirk> ?
<dirk> I guess for people working late its too early, and for people in a different timezone its too late
<Bille> Beineri: yes during the winter, but you know i sprout wheels during the summer
<cornelius> dgollub: in the middle of the night?
<benJIman> Are you going to spam to -announce like the gnome people do?
<rabauke> dirk: no those two are below 50%
<Bille> benJIman: hell yeah, i'll spam -gnome too :)
<dirk> benJIman: should we? is news.o.o not enough?
<benJIman> dirk: Well personally I'm not very keen on gnome people spamming -announce every week with their meetings.
<benJIman> But they do it anyway.
<Beineri> benJIman: works only with more than a half day in advance, as -announce is moderated
<notlocalhorst> benJIman: write a mail to -project
<dirk> benJIman: well, they gotta do something, right?
* dirk hides
<dirk> rabauke: I agree, but I only have full hard drives so I didn't notice
<benJIman> Beineri mentioned the fact that a review was complaining about how KDE apps look in gnome.
<rabauke> :)
<dirk> rabauke: I'll try to keep it in mind, but feel free to file a bugreport / send a patch :)
<benJIman> It's also worht pointing out that pretty much every single review was reviewing gnome on opensuse.
<benJIman> And most of the complaints were about gnome too.
<rabauke> dirk: I'll do
<Bille> dirk: i'll fish a list of possible action items out of the log, when i post it
<benJIman> Which implies a marketing issue.
<Beineri> benJIman: yes, go ahead and write a KDE review!
<Bille> if any of them get BR'ed then please link the BR in the list.
<benJIman> Beineri: It will be completely unbiased.
<Beineri> benJIman: GNOME had a new major release in 10.3 though
<apokryphos> benJIman: indeed
<apokryphos> wanted to just mention something along the blogging point as mentioned earlier
<dirk> benJIman: good point.. how do you think can we improve on that?
<apokryphos> it's just a general issue in openSUSE I think (not just one team), but for example: 10.3 was released (not really a small achivement) and Beineri was the only one from the KDE team to even say anything about it :O
<benJIman> dirk: You can blog about it on planetkde ;)
<apokryphos> blogging can really make a difference with getting the word out, and openSUSE is (I think) not well presented in the open source blogosphere which is shocking since it has more than enough people in open source :D
<dirk> benJIman: ok, you're right :)
<Bille> i'm actually working on my blog,
<Beineri> benJIman: dirk just got readded to planet kde (and still struggling to get on planet suse)
<Bille> if you call getting my wife to write a review from her perspective "working"
<Beineri> benJIman: the planet software, written by a gnome guy, likes to drop people off occasionally
<Bille> now that we're finally married i'm going to remind her about doing some KDE PR work
<cv> what is netbios for in openSUSE?
<dirk> ok, when do we schedule our next meeting?
<dirk> doing on a weekend? sunday evening? sunday afternoon (talking GMT) ?
<hype> Bille: url to your blog...? or maybe all kde people that have blogs should be mentioned on opensuse/kde people ...
<dirk> or prefer a weekday?
<Bille> hype: it's on the KDE/Team list already, next to Bille
<Beineri> http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Team lists also blogs
<dirk> hype: www.kdedevelopers.org
<hype> weekday's is better ...
<hype> ohh thx... dindt even know of the opensuse7KDE/team page before this meeting :(
<Bille> what about an hour earlier?
* Beineri tried to extend the KDE wiki pages recently a bit...
<Bille> 1700 CEST?
<Beineri> if someone has some ideas or is willing to make them better himself, you're welcome
<Beineri> entry point http://en.opensuse.org/KDE ;-)
<Bille> does anyone have a problem with earlier on a wednesday night?
<dirk> okay... lets not stretch it out too much
* dirk is starving
<rabauke> since external harddrives are getting more popular, what are people supposed to use in order to format and integrate them into their home-dir?
<notlocalhorst> the americans maybe?
<Beineri> dirk: http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/ now works too :-)
<Bille> ok, looks like everyone is off feeding
<dirk> I'd like to thank everyone for participating in the meeting!
<Bille> i'll suggest we keep the current time on the list and we can watch the fur fly there.
<Bille> so, see you in 2 weeks
<Beineri> bye