Speaker: jpr

17:05:04) jpr has changed the topic to: Introduction (jpr) | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/ | T/esting needed: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/11.0/Testing (17:05:05) KevinYo [n=KevinYo@opensuse/member/Kdupuy9] entered the room. (17:05:13) jpr: Welcome to the openSUSE GNOME meeting! (17:05:32) onestone left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection). (17:05:33) ***suseROCKs does the jpr wave (17:05:34) jpr: we have some review today of some key openSUSE 11.0 release topics (17:05:37) jpr: ahead of RC1 (17:06:06) ***FunkyPenguin was unable to run or install beta3 gnome cd :(

Speaker: everyone

(17:06:50) jpr has changed the topic to: Factory testing discussion (everyone) | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/ | T/esting needed: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/11.0/Testing (17:06:54) jpr: good segue (17:07:00) jpr: FunkyPenguin: so whats up there? (17:07:28) FunkyPenguin: it just sits at "---> Probing module: uhci-hcd" (17:07:37) casualprogrammer: are we making sure we all have the identical (re)sources ? (17:07:53) jpr: some of the bugs i see on the b3 list i thought got fixed after the test builds (17:07:57) hobbsc: i'm trying to get up to b3, i may just need to grab an iso (17:08:08) FunkyPenguin: not announced per se although http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/distribution/11.0-Beta3/ has the iso and torrents (17:08:15) jpr: ok (17:08:20) FunkyPenguin: the latter are not registered yet with the tracker (17:08:27) jpr: Yast does not start under GNOME (17:08:31) jpr: that for instance (17:08:33) jpr: was fixed (17:08:38) casualprogrammer: jpr: download.opensuse.org has it too now (17:08:45) hobbsc: does the installer work on the gnome livecd for beta3? (17:08:52) hobbsc: or should ig rab the dvd? (17:08:52) FunkyPenguin: yeah, i heard alot of fixes didnt make the beta :( (17:09:02) jpr: seemed good on the test build i tried (17:09:06) KevinYo: jpr: are you saying that was or wasn't fixed in the released beta? (17:09:26) jpr: bug 389069 is the above (17:09:33) jpr: KevinYo: i'm not sure now (17:09:34) bugbot: openSUSE bug 389069 in openSUSE 11.0 (Live Medium) "20080509: GNOME: Unable to launch yast" [Critical,Resolved: fixed] https://bugzilla.novell.com/389069 (17:09:35) casualprogrammer: hobbssc: for network install use boot.iso (17:09:53) jpr: it would be good for people to check the most annoying bug list to confirm (17:10:36) jpr: other factory issues/concerns? (17:10:37) hobbsc: got a list of the annoying bugs? (17:10:45) hobbsc: just logged into bugzilla (17:10:47) casualprogrammer: jpr: I had exactly that and filed it as new, also monsoon is not fixed in beta3 (17:10:56) jpr: hobbsc: its posted at http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs:Most_Annoying_Bugs_11.0_dev (17:11:00) federico3: I haven't updated to beta3, but is anyone else getting the "invalid metadata" error from zypper refresh? (17:11:01) hobbsc: thanks (17:11:02) FunkyPenguin: also kernel-source and kernel-syms are slightly buggered, aparently a fix is going in now (17:11:13) jpr: federico3: x86_64? (17:11:29) jpr: i finally hand worked around https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=384254 (17:11:32) bugbot: openSUSE bug 384254 in openSUSE 11.0 (Basesystem) "nscd: error in %post" [Major,Assigned] (17:11:37) casualprogrammer: jpr: as I asked before: how do we make sure all of us use same (re)sorces (17:11:42) FunkyPenguin: federico3: not me, although PK does bitch every so often of a changed signature or similar on one or more repos (17:12:03) FunkyPenguin: casualprogrammer: in what way? as in install media etc? (17:12:06) casualprogrammer: jpr: also the misplaced panel bug is still there (17:12:07) Iznogood: FunkyPenguin: here too (17:12:37) jpr: casualprogrammer: for intel? (17:12:49) casualprogrammer: FunkyPenguin: yes exactly, sometimes I have the feeling you guys use some internal repo, while the rest of us uses public (17:12:55) suseROCKs: I wonder if clean installs would still see the problems? (17:12:57) bugbot: New openSUSE 11.0 (GNOME) bug 390876 filed by snorp@novell.com. (17:12:58) bugbot: Bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=390876 Minor, P5 - None, NEW, gnome-do not started by default (17:13:05) hobbsc: i'm grabbing an iso, i'm going to have to hold until i can get b3 installed (17:13:10) casualprogrammer: jpr: yes intel and 1280*800 (17:13:13) hobbsc: once i get this iso, i'll jump into the bug list (17:13:25) jpr: federico3, vuntz see casualprogrammer 's comments :-) (17:14:08) casualprogrammer: suseROCKs: I did a clean install today (17:14:13) jpr: casualprogrammer: we have internal options, i only use it to test a particular fix (17:14:18) jpr: the rest i use public (17:14:31) onestone [n=onestone@f049009091.adsl.alicedsl.de] entered the room. (17:14:33) FunkyPenguin: casualprogrammer: well almost all the sources are publicly accessible apart from when people mention something like beta2+. (17:14:34) jbrockmeier [n=jzb@rrcs-71-41-33-194.se.biz.rr.com] entered the room. (17:14:34) jpr: so i know the real pain of everyone :-) (17:14:39) casualprogrammer: jpr: are we then sure we talk about identical issues ? (17:14:50) sontek: does b3 have that hard drive eating bug fixed? (17:14:55) jpr: casualprogrammer: no, but i thought it was the intel panel sizing bug (17:15:15) jpr: it was a blocker until recently (17:15:22) jpr: when it was closed by vincent and federico (17:15:26) jpr: so if its not fixed (17:15:27) FunkyPenguin: sontek: luckily i havent experienced it yet so i cant tell yes/no (17:15:31) casualprogrammer: jpr: it is the panel sizing bug, i was referring to the resources (17:15:33) jpr: they'll have to look at it with you (17:15:39) jpr: oh :-) (17:15:41) ***jpr shuts up (17:15:54) sontek: The intel bug bothers me, they fixed gome-panel (17:16:09) sontek: but when you full screen an application, it still goes on the resolution of VGA (17:16:18) FunkyPenguin: i only get that with ff3 (17:16:39) jpr: make sure the bug is re-opened then (17:16:48) jpr: other factory comments/concerns? (17:16:56) ***jpr has a good segue here (17:17:03) captain_magnus: Only that the compiz thing is still there in beta3 (17:17:12) casualprogrammer: it has also been verified elsewhere Bug 310208 (17:17:15) bugbot: openSUSE bug 310208 in openSUSE 10.3 (GNOME) "misplaced panel on widescreen displays" [Critical,Reopened] https://bugzilla.novell.com/310208 (17:17:18) captain_magnus: Where windows can't be moved, or it starts without window decoratations etc (17:17:20) Iznogood: well, for me beagle hardlocks the puter once in a while (17:17:41) jpr: captain_magnus: right, but the fix is in for RC1 there (17:17:46) jpr: Iznogood: hardlocks? (17:17:50) FunkyPenguin: looks like the gnome cd is knackered, kde one is moving along fine :( (17:17:56) jpr: its tough for a user space process to do that (17:17:57) Iznogood: full on freeze (17:18:11) jpr: i would suspect more like the freeze captain_magnus has seen (17:18:18) jpr: where it is probably something else (17:18:29) captain_magnus: Iznogood: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=389656 (17:18:32) bugbot: openSUSE bug 389656 in openSUSE 11.0 (Kernel) "Machine hard hang after upgrading from latest Factory" [Blocker,New] (17:18:36) Iznogood: I can sit and wait watching top, beagle goes to the top of the prosess list and everything locks up (17:18:50) Iznogood: meaning beagled (17:18:54) hobbsc: any of you guys have a link to the network install iso, i'm not seeing it on http://software.opensuse.org/developer (17:18:57) hobbsc: nor the ftp site (17:19:00) casualprogrammer: you guys do the check installation media check then ? I fear the iso from gwdg.de is broken.. (17:19:05) Iznogood: remove begle no more lockups (17:19:27) jpr: Iznogood: ok, /var/log/messages, beagle logs etc (17:19:30) FunkyPenguin: casualprogrammer: looks like the gnome cd may well be (17:19:31) ***Iznogood likes beagle, so this is bad :) (17:19:36) suseROCKs: hobbsc: http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/SL-OSS-factory/inst-source/boot/ (17:19:53) hobbsc: suseROCKs: thanks (17:19:59) Iznogood: captain_magnus: is beagle in on your box? (17:20:02) suseROCKs: wow, I actually said something useful in a meeting! (17:20:10) hobbsc: casualprogrammer: i'm about halfway done dling it. i'll run a media check first thing (17:20:26) jpr: ok (17:20:30) ***jpr moves to next topic

Speaker: jpr

(17:20:32) jpr has changed the topic to: Under prioritized Bugs (jpr) | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/ | T/esting needed: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/11.0/Testing (17:20:37) jpr: so (17:20:43) casualprogrammer: hobbssc: http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/SL-OSS-factory/inst-source/boot/boot.iso (17:20:45) jpr: before we look at specific bugs (17:20:58) jpr: the kde guys and jbrockmeier (aka zonker) (17:20:59) suseROCKs: beat you to it casualprogrammer! neener neener (17:21:08) jpr: are proposing a bug voting day May 22 (17:21:13) jpr: ie a week today (17:21:15) ***casualprogrammer thinks suseROCKs is really fast.. (17:21:24) jpr: to really promote bug voting (17:21:26) suseROCKs: unfortunately women think so too.. (17:21:26) hobbsc: casualprogrammer: crack cocaine will do that to a person (17:21:30) hpj: jpr: sweet! (17:21:31) jpr: and find some community bugs (17:21:40) jpr: that we could fix before release (17:21:44) casualprogrammer: suseROCKs: :-) (17:21:45) jpr: or at least to updates for (17:21:49) mw: argh (17:21:51) jpr: i assume we want to participate (17:21:55) mw: memory errors on my main machine :( (17:22:08) jpr: do we have general agreement? (17:22:08) KevinYo: It's a good idea, especially to fix the small things ;-) (17:22:15) casualprogrammer: mw: broken memtest hopefully.. (17:22:15) hobbsc: casualprogrammer: my iso checks fine (17:22:18) captain_magnus: jpr: Sure +1 (17:22:21) FunkyPenguin: jpr: +1 (17:22:25) KevinYo: Yup +1 (17:22:30) casualprogrammer: hobbssc: good to hear (17:22:32) jpr: it would be idea for those on planetsuse.org esp. to blog in reference to zonker's post (17:22:32) hpj: mw: open it and check for ants (17:22:36) hpj: jpr: +1 (17:22:43) jpr: and vote themselves of course (17:22:52) ChrisJaeger: ' course (17:22:54) hobbsc: jpr: link the post, i'll respond as well. i'm aggregated on planetsuse (17:23:07) jpr: jbrockmeier: ^^ (17:23:20) jpr: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Bugs just needs to be extended for oS 11.0 voting (17:23:21) casualprogrammer: jpr: i would like to see the network issues fixed rather soonish.. (17:23:28) jpr: it has a 10.2/10.3 query (17:23:30) hobbsc: noted (17:23:44) jpr: hobbsc: volunteering to update the query? :-) (17:23:51) mw: casualprogrammer: no, i was getting programs crashing weirdly (17:23:52) jbrockmeier: jpr: got it. (17:24:01) casualprogrammer: mw: bad :-) (17:24:04) mw: casualprogrammer: running memtest86 now, and it's reporting lots of errors (17:24:16) ***hpj holds mw (17:24:19) hpj: mw: i am so sorry (17:24:22) jony left the room (quit: "Leaving"). (17:24:27) hobbsc: jpr: misunderstanding, sorry i'm a bit lagged (17:24:32) jpr: hehe (17:24:43) jpr: hobbsc: you could still volunteer though! (17:24:48) hobbsc: jpr: i'd be happy to (17:24:52) jpr: excellent (17:24:52) hobbsc: jpr: just let me know what you need (17:25:13) jpr: AI: hobbsc to updated voted bug query on http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Bugs (17:25:20) suseROCKs: careful hobbsc I said the same thing to him when if i first wandered in here many months ago. :-) (17:25:21) jpr: hobbsc: if you need more details, ask after the meeting (17:25:28) ***casualprogrammer is wearing a new black tee shirt with green animal on it .. (17:25:37) hobbsc: jpr: i'd appreciate details, i'll pm you afterwards (17:25:39) jpr: casualprogrammer: network bug numbers? (17:26:00) jpr: CALL FOR OTHER UNDERPRIORITIZED BUGS (17:26:14) hobbsc: casualprogrammer: is it a giraffe? (17:26:18) hobbsc: heh (17:26:21) captain_magnus: jpr: All my open bugs :-) (17:26:37) jpr: well (17:26:45) jpr: i'm mostly talking gnome/xgl/networkmanager :-) (17:26:50) casualprogrammer: jpr: just search for ifup / NetworkManager (17:26:52) jpr: but we can at least try to poke (17:27:34) jpr: tambet did drop a big NM update in b3 (17:27:53) jpr: ok

Speaker: sreeves

(17:27:55) jpr has changed the topic to: PackageKit Update (sreeves) | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/ | T/esting needed: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/11.0/Testing (17:27:56) ***FunkyPenguin has kicked off a bit of a sh** storm within HAL :] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=382784 (17:28:00) jpr: sreeves: ... (17:28:01) bugbot: openSUSE bug 382784 in openSUSE 11.0 (Network) "NM don't react on WLAN button and don't set kill switch status correctly" [Enhancement,New] (17:28:26) sreeves: ok - so the final version that will ship in 11.0 is in beta3 - 0.2.1 (17:28:27) ***captain_magnus wonders about "T/esting" instead of "Testing" in the Topic (17:28:54) sreeves: the updater should have all the needed functionality in it now (17:29:01) sreeves: license acceptance handling (17:29:05) ***casualprogrammer thinks hobbsc is color blind... (17:29:06) sreeves: gpg key importing (17:29:19) sreeves: updating both patches and packages (17:29:34) FunkyPenguin: sreeves: is it supposed to advise on which repo has a changed signature? (17:29:51) sreeves: FunkyPenguin: yes (17:30:04) FunkyPenguin: ok cool, i'll keep an eye on it then (17:30:09) sreeves: FunkyPenguin: you should get a popup when you need to accept a new key (17:30:22) sreeves: it should have the name of the repo that is needed (17:30:26) FunkyPenguin: i get a pop up saying something has changed but not what (17:30:32) ***casualprogrammer is afraid to ask what PackageKit is all about .. (17:30:45) sreeves: It would be nice if users can test updating from the update repo as well (17:30:52) ***jpr sees what FunkyPenguin sees (17:31:01) sreeves: http://download.opensuse.org/update/11.0 (17:31:01) jpr: until i open the show updates thing (17:31:05) jpr: then i see a dialog (17:31:09) sreeves: add that repo (17:31:14) jpr: asking about the new key (17:31:35) sreeves: hrmm, I will look into that (17:31:48) hpj: casualprogrammer: a big wrapper over distro package management (17:32:13) hpj: casualprogrammer: presenting a uniform GNOME GUI to users across distros (17:32:15) ***casualprogrammer has found the answer for himself, they are talking about that update applet thingy (17:32:21) ***FunkyPenguin loves the new yast2-gtk software module (17:32:26) sreeves: casualprogrammer: yeah the PackageKit updater (gpk-update-icon) has replaced the old updater for 11.0 (17:32:38) casualprogrammer: hpj: that sounds great (17:32:57) hpj: casualprogrammer: it is (17:33:03) sreeves: zypper and yast are still there for detailed package management if needed (17:33:08) casualprogrammer: could it be on unfriendly terms with zypper ? (17:33:27) KevinYo: it uses libzypp as a backend doesn't it? (17:33:30) jpr: yes (17:33:31) sreeves: PackageKit is built on top of libzypp (17:33:42) ***KevinYo has a question about PackageKit (17:33:46) sreeves: all the work under the covers is done with libzypp (17:33:50) hub: or more accurately: PackageKit has a libzypp backend (17:33:51) DimStar [n=dominiqu@videolan/contributor/dimstar] entered the room. (17:34:01) jpr: in the future we get cool stuff like gpk-install-mime-type :-) (17:34:07) casualprogrammer: can libzypp actually handle other distros packages ? (17:34:09) Iznogood: search for packages in pk is a bit strange since it only finds exact matches (17:34:11) KevinYo: I used beta 2 and noticed the install and uninstall components of PackageKit were installed as well. (17:34:31) jpr: casualprogrammer: it only handles rpms afaik (17:34:32) KevinYo: Are we trying to get users to use these instead of YaST's own interface? (17:34:39) jpr: but it has been ported to fedora i believe (17:34:46) sreeves: Iznogood: yeah, that is a bad bug. (17:34:46) hpj: casualprogrammer: you still can't swap packages between distros if that's what you meant (17:34:55) jpr: KevinYo: not currently by default (17:35:01) jpr: only the updater by default for 11.0 (17:35:04) casualprogrammer: jpr: fedora uses rpm (17:35:15) KevinYo: OK. Does the install and uninstall interfaces stay? (17:35:21) hpj: casualprogrammer: but distros using it will all have the same familiar UI for pkg management (17:35:27) Iznogood: KevinYo: ues (17:35:28) jpr: casualprogrammer: exactly :-) (17:35:31) jpr: http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/05/02/how-about-something-like-this/ (17:35:31) Iznogood: doh, yes (17:35:38) jpr: ^^ future cool stuff (17:35:45) metavoid left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection). (17:35:50) ChrisJaeger: KevinYo: I hope not. Not now that the YaST package manager has become really cool. (17:35:52) jpr: (we actually have the tool now, just not the rpm patch) (17:36:14) hobbsc: ChrisJaeger: agreed (17:36:35) Iznogood: yast wont go away (17:36:45) jpr: i suspect we will always have the yast tool for complex stuff (17:36:56) jpr: but start using PK for nice simple user integration (17:37:03) jpr: like installing a simple app (17:37:12) jpr: finding a package to handle a certain mime type (17:37:13) ChrisJaeger: Like mime-type based installs? (17:37:13) jpr: etc (17:37:14) Iznogood: yast IS what sets suse apart from other distros (17:37:16) casualprogrammer: jpr: I think the ubuntu folks had some app that would change rpm to their pacakge format. Something like that should be integrated (17:37:19) jpr: sreeves: you agree? (17:37:19) ChrisJaeger: ... (17:37:25) jpr: casualprogrammer: alien does that (17:37:31) sreeves: yup (17:37:34) jpr: ChrisJaeger: yes :-) (17:37:39) casualprogrammer: jpr: that's it :-) (17:37:45) benJIman: Alien will convert packages both ways. (17:37:55) hub: but it is not recommended (17:37:58) suseROCKs: sounds alien to me (17:38:00) bugbot: New openSUSE 11.0 (GNOME) bug 390883 filed by jmatejek@novell.com. (17:38:01) hub: package format is not the only thing (17:38:02) bugbot: Bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=390883 Normal, P5 - None, NEW, no minimize animation in GNOME (17:38:03) benJIman: Inded. (17:38:06) benJIman: *Indeed. (17:38:20) ChrisJaeger: seen it (17:38:25) hpj: files will often be installed to the wrong locations with alien (17:38:28) hpj: for instance. (17:38:50) KevinYo: Using the example jpr linked to earlier, it;s a nice tool. And I suppose most users might install things with 1-Click anyway. But I thought it would be better to have 1 software management tool. (17:38:55) jpr: casualprogrammer: for PK it becomes a bit moot - there are yum/smart/etc backends (17:39:09) benJIman: The debian backends are pretty immature. (17:39:26) jony [n=jjohnny@nat/novell/x-45d738dc54c78413] entered the room. (17:39:39) sreeves: so test out the updater and report any bugs... (17:39:40) jpr: any other questions for scott on PK? (17:39:49) hpj: sreeves: will do (17:39:51) jpr: (test! test! test!) (17:39:52) suseROCKs: yes... What's PK? ;-) (17:40:09) KevinYo: Not until I use it again when Beta 3 finished downloading :-) (17:40:15) jpr: hehe

Speaker: rodrigo

(17:40:19) jpr has changed the topic to: PulseAudio Update (rodrigo) | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/ | T/mesting needed: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/11.0/Testing (17:40:24) jpr: so, no rodrigo (17:40:27) hobbsc: alright, i'm getting b3 installed to assist where i can (17:40:29) jpr: is bjorn here? (17:40:35) Iznogood: yeah (17:40:35) ***jpr forgets his irc nick (17:40:45) jpr: aha! (17:40:51) ***captain_magnus wonders why the topic have "T/mesting" instead of "Testing" (17:40:53) ***Iznogood jumps up and down (17:40:58) Iznogood: memememem (17:40:59) jpr: i find it odd i don't have that mental association (17:41:00) bugbot: New openSUSE 11.0 (GNOME) bug 390885 filed by jmatejek@novell.com. (17:41:01) bugbot: Bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=390885 Major, P5 - None, NEW, keyboard shortcuts and window settings are broken when desktop effects are turned on (17:41:17) jpr: Iznogood: care to over view the situation for us? (17:41:20) Iznogood: sure (17:41:28) ***casualprogrammer thinks captain_magnus is a very keen observer.. (17:41:48) Iznogood: I hope most of you read my reply to rodrigo for pulseaudio status (17:42:09) Iznogood: from where I'm sitting it seems to be working ok (featurewize) (17:42:39) Iznogood: If we look away from the performance issues some of us see (me at least) (17:42:45) ChrisJaeger: [tested the GNOME live CD Installer just now and it worked] (17:43:18) hobbsc: ChrisJaeger: where'd you grab your iso from? one of the .de isos was checking bad for casualprogrammer i think (17:43:19) Iznogood: other than that, pa seems good to go, but please test it everyone (17:43:23) ***casualprogrammer starts padevchooser in a terminal and gets ALSA lib control.c:909:(snd_ctl_open_noupdate) Invalid CTL front:0 (17:43:26) hobbsc: i'm getting ready to run the network install (17:43:32) ChrisJaeger: hobbsc: ftp5.gwdg.de (17:43:39) jpr: Iznogood: thanks (17:43:40) Iznogood: hope some of you have a spdif and/or hdmi to test with

Speaker: casualprogrammer

(17:43:43) jpr has changed the topic to: Discussion of GNOME Patterns provided and possible impli/complications (casualprogrammer) | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/ | Testing needed: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/11.0/Testing (17:43:44) hobbsc: ChrisJaeger: good, i verified that iso as well (17:43:46) jpr: casualprogrammer: ... (17:43:49) jpr: your topic (17:43:51) Iznogood: + someone test with wine and skype (17:43:51) jpr: go man go (17:44:35) casualprogrammer: jpr: I sent a message with my main ideas around (17:44:54) casualprogrammer: as I see it there are several patterns that need adjustment (17:45:15) casualprogrammer: yast2 sw_single just shows two (17:45:28) casualprogrammer: zypper pt shows 21 (17:46:01) casualprogrammer: and as far as I see it, choosing a pattern installs all of its content (17:46:21) jpr: yes (17:46:24) casualprogrammer: so I would like to see patterns adjusted to audiences targeted (17:46:29) suseROCKs: isn't that what it is supposed to do? (17:46:32) jpr: the 21 vs 2 thing is top level vs not (17:46:42) jpr: most of the 21 are included in the 2-3 (17:46:47) jpr: captain_magnus: correct? (17:46:55) captain_magnus: The 21 that's installed also depends on what packages are available (17:47:13) jpr: hmm (17:47:14) captain_magnus: Some of them are hard dependenices, some are soft... (17:47:17) jpr: its a cool idea (17:47:29) casualprogrammer: jpr: that's what I'm trying to get at, I am installing lots of apps, I don't need and don't get to know (17:47:30) jpr: a couple of issues i see (17:47:47) jpr: a) too late for 11.0 (17:47:55) jpr: b) it implies an overall distro change (17:48:04) jpr: because what does it mean to select "GNOME" (17:48:13) jpr: in the desktop selection theme (17:48:14) casualprogrammer: jpr: not in a hurry (17:48:18) jpr: but i kind of like (17:48:22) jpr: it (17:48:35) jpr: we'd discussed this kind of thing for SLED in the past (17:48:44) jpr: for audiences (17:48:54) jpr: but sub-enterprise audiences in that case (17:48:57) suseROCKs: In B2, I noticed that when selecting a pattern, I couldn't tell what apps were actually included in that pattern. Is that what's discussed now? (17:49:09) jpr: suseROCKs: somewhat :_ (17:49:13) casualprogrammer: suseROCKs: it's part of it (17:49:24) jpr: other opinions on casualprogrammer's proposal? (17:49:29) suseROCKs: seems we used to be able to do that, didn't we? (17:50:06) ChrisJaeger: I like it. I was beginning to have difficulties discerning patterns from categories. :) (17:50:28) suseROCKs: my problem with that was that I then couldn't browse the list to see what apps would be installed that I ddin't know about. (17:50:31) hobbsc: i like it as well (17:51:15) Iznogood: suseROCKs: yeah, what you mean is when you select a pattern, it does not show the apps this includes in the right window in yast2-gtk (17:51:17) jpr: casualprogrammer: i think the next steps would be to discuss the idea on opensuse-factory (17:51:23) jpr: or blog about it and gain momentum :-) (17:51:26) captain_magnus: It's just a matter of creating some more top level patterns... But the main pattern picked when selecting the Desktop would be very hard to change (17:51:27) suseROCKs: Iznogood: yes (17:51:35) ChrisJaeger: AFAIR, the original sense of patterns was to be task-oriented? Set up a server etc. etc.? (17:51:39) Iznogood: they do show up in yast-qt (17:51:44) onestone left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection). (17:51:51) jpr: ChrisJaeger: yes, i think so (17:51:56) casualprogrammer: captain_magnus: the main pattern could be reduced to the absolute minimum.. (17:52:02) suseROCKs: but I'm not allowed to use qt because I'm no cutie. (17:52:10) Iznogood: thats a given :P (17:52:14) ChrisJaeger: jpr: Then the audience-oriented approach is pretty much in the same spirit, I guess. (17:52:39) captain_magnus: casualprogrammer: Very bad idea (17:52:59) casualprogrammer: lznogood: but they are not populated in yast-qt :-( (17:53:16) casualprogrammer: captain_magnus: ?? which one (17:53:25) captain_magnus: casualprogrammer: The minimal ammount of packages (17:53:44) casualprogrammer: captain_magnus: why, what's wrong with it ? (17:54:02) captain_magnus: casualprogrammer: If you know what you want, go and select different patterns, but for users that don't, why should they end up with a minimal ammount of apps? I don't agree with that (17:54:26) ChrisJaeger: Ubuntu does fine with a similar approach... ;) (17:55:02) casualprogrammer: captain_magnus: if you were asked during install what audience you belong to (why choose GNOME) you would answer that and get what you want (17:55:50) captain_magnus: casualprogrammer: So in the page where you install openSUSE and pick your Desktop, you would have 6 selections for GNOME + the KDE once? (17:56:21) casualprogrammer: captain_magnus: you could do it as with other: checking GNOME opens a submenu (17:56:24) jpr: there are some practical problems (17:56:38) jpr: "are you a business user?" "yes" (17:56:45) jpr: "a gnome or kde biz user?" (17:56:46) jpr: :-) (17:57:11) jpr: ok (17:57:13) jpr: to some up (17:57:23) casualprogrammer: jpr: we don't solve KDE probs, the details come after GNOME :-) (17:57:24) jpr: i hear some solid support for at least exploring this earlier (17:57:38) jpr: so i think we should do that (17:57:50) jpr: it would have to be done solidly before b1 of openSUSE 11.1 (17:57:54) jpr: at least the prep work (17:57:58) jpr: so starting now is good (17:58:10) ***hobbsc read that as just "11" (17:58:17) captain_magnus: hobbsc: No... 11.1 (17:58:24) captain_magnus: hobbsc: To late for 11.0 (17:58:26) hobbsc: yeah, it's kind of pressing things if you go into it now (17:58:31) hobbsc: hence my distress

Speaker: suseROCKS

(17:58:53) jpr has changed the topic to: Task Update (suseROCKS) | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/ | Testing needed: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/11.0/Testing (17:58:57) jpr: suseROCKs: ... (17:59:19) suseROCKs: ok we have one new AI added for today, directed at hobbsc (17:59:29) hobbsc: yeah, i'll need some direction on that (17:59:32) hobbsc: post-meeting (17:59:43) ***casualprogrammer notices the missing "/" in Testing.. (17:59:44) suseROCKs: meanwhile, I don't see anyone updating their tasks. and I suspect a number of these tasks are pretty stale. (17:59:56) jpr: a number of them are *done* (18:00:04) jpr: Add conduit to GNOME:Community (18:00:06) suseROCKs: I'm tempted to just wipe the slate clean and start anew with the tasks. (18:00:08) casualprogrammer: suseROCKs: where are those tasks posted ? (18:00:09) jpr: Propose a date and organize a multi-screen hackfest (18:00:18) jpr: Schedule review of GNOME related patterns (18:00:25) jpr: Categorize all the bugs and add 11.0 categories (18:00:27) suseROCKs: casualprogrammer: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Tasks (18:00:39) FunkyPenguin: jpr: ive done that, but im having issues building it (18:00:40) jpr: Grep for desktop policy changes, update wiki and mail the list to start discussion (18:00:49) jpr: ok (18:00:59) jpr: the rest are all done afaik (18:01:03) casualprogrammer: suseROCKs: thanks (18:01:07) FunkyPenguin: looks like the deps are to blame (18:01:11) suseROCKs: alright after the meeting I'll send email to each assigned person and verify exact status (18:01:29) suseROCKs: AI to everyone: Answer my email! :-)

Speaker: jpr

(18:01:45) jpr has changed the topic to: Agenda for upcoming meeting (jpr / all) | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/ | Testing needed: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/11.0/Testing (18:01:47) jpr: ok (18:01:48) FunkyPenguin: mw: when you get a chance could you look at why conduit(and deps) fail please? im lost atm (18:01:54) jpr: agenda items for next time? (18:02:06) jpr: agenda: schedule 10.3 bug squash (18:02:15) suseROCKs: jpr actually would like to insert a last minute addition here to the agenda. (18:02:22) casualprogrammer: jpr: I would like a discussion about how to reduce bug numbers (18:02:37) jpr: casualprogrammer: ok, lets tie that together (18:02:46) jpr: with the 10.3 bug squash since its related (18:02:47) FunkyPenguin: casualprogrammer: thats easy stop reporting them :) (18:03:00) jpr: there are no 10.1 GNOME bugs, 30 against 10.2 (18:03:04) hobbsc: FunkyPenguin: or stop finding them (18:03:05) jpr: the bulk are in 10.3 and 11.0 (18:03:20) casualprogrammer: see Bug 371745, Bug 374911 and Bug 269774 (18:03:27) bugbot: openSUSE bug 371745 in openSUSE.org (BuildService) "block / remove packages that are broken from repositories" [Enhancement,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/371745 (18:03:28) jpr: suseROCKs: what is the addition (for after this topic) (18:03:29) bugbot: openSUSE bug 374911 in openSUSE.org (bugzilla) "change the way duplicates are handled" [Enhancement,Closed: invalid] https://bugzilla.novell.com/374911 (18:03:31) bugbot: openSUSE bug 269774 in openSUSE 10.3 (Patterns) "clean up packages for initial installation" [Enhancement,Resolved: fixed] https://bugzilla.novell.com/269774 (18:03:39) jbrockmeier: time to fly, have a great meeting all :- ) (18:03:48) jbrockmeier left the room (quit: "Leaving."). (18:03:50) hobbsc: bye zonk (18:03:50) jpr: other agenda items? (18:03:53) casualprogrammer: FunkyPenguin: splendid idea, I actually thought about it ;-) (18:03:53) suseROCKs: captain_magnus and I would like to propose a community outreach/clinic/howto or whatever you want to call it to increase participation and awareness of GNOME (18:03:59) jpr: pulse and packagekit should be on the agenda (18:04:18) suseROCKs: With a weekly topic separate from this meeting in which one of us volunteers to talk about a topic of interest. (18:04:24) jpr: we probably need a multi head wrap up from federico as well (18:04:36) suseROCKs: This would be important especially when 11.0 is released and we'll have lots of newcomers wanting to learn more. (18:04:42) jpr: aha (18:04:48) jpr: that brings up theme meetings (18:04:57) hobbsc: suseROCKs: it's a trap! (18:04:58) jpr: but it sounds like you want them more user oriented (18:05:00) suseROCKs: yes but not theme meetings directed at this meeting. (18:05:08) jpr: ah (18:05:15) jpr: suseROCKs: can we do that next week? (18:05:17) jpr: on the agenda (18:05:32) suseROCKs: jpr for example. When I first came here, I saw a meeting announcement and thought I'd come here to learn how to do this or that in GNOME. You entrapped me. :-) (18:05:44) jpr: i have a special skill (18:05:52) suseROCKs: no kidding! :-) (18:06:01) suseROCKs: ok let's put it on the agenda next week. (18:06:03) jpr: ok (18:06:06) bugbot: New openSUSE 11.0 (GNOME) bug 390903 filed by jmatejek@novell.com. (18:06:07) bugbot: Bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=390903 Minor, P5 - None, NEW, "Open a terminal" command in compiz should have a default value (18:06:12) suseROCKs: if hobbsc doesn't object, that is. (18:06:13) hobbsc: do you hold team meetings at the same time every week/ (18:06:21) hobbsc: suseROCKs: no objections here (18:06:30) suseROCKs: hobbsc: no sometimes we have it at 6 a.m. to accommodate captain_magnus (18:06:33) jpr: i want to say a *huge* thank you to casualprogrammer for doing all the meeting admin setup (18:06:44) jpr: so much better organized this week

Speaker: suseROCKS

(18:06:46) jpr has changed the topic to: Q&A | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/ | Testing needed: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/11.0/Testing (18:07:12) hobbsc: ok, if that's meeting adjourned, i guess i need some info on the task you'd like me to work on (18:07:18) hobbsc: the vote extension updates (18:07:18) casualprogrammer: jpr: good to hear it suited you all.. (18:07:29) suseROCKs: hobbsc: no meeting isn't adjourned. THis is Q&A. Ask a question dammit! (18:07:57) mw left the room (quit: Read error: 113 (No route to host)). (18:08:06) jony: Iznogood, when i try to launch Pulse Audio -> Volume Control , i get connection refused. (using beta3 here .. fresh install ) .. where do i get debug info for those .. (18:08:11) casualprogrammer: suseROCKs: do actuall developers test their own stuff before commitiong it to repo ? (18:08:12) hobbsc: suseROCKs: how many feet are there in 12 furlongs? (18:08:35) suseROCKs: depends on how long the fur is. May need a haircut before you count the feet. (18:08:36) Iznogood: open a terminal and do pulseaudio -k (18:08:41) Iznogood: and pulseaudio -D (18:08:48) jpr: ok, low on the Q&A this wek :-) (18:08:55) jpr: Thanks all! (18:08:58) jpr has changed the topic to: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/ | Testing needed: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/11.0/Testing