Speaker: jpr jpr: welcome to the opensuse GNOME meeting! jpr: this week we'll be focusing alot on the issues remaining in 11.0 jpr: as we head towards B3 and RC1! jpr: 41 days left until release!

Speaker: everyone jpr: so jpr: nscd is being a PITA jpr: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=384254 bugbot: openSUSE bug 384254 in openSUSE 11.0 (Basesystem) "nscd: error in %post" [Critical,Needinfo] federico3: that started with beta1, right? jpr: other comments? jpr: it started some time after beta2 federico3: jpr: hmm, I installed beta1 yesterday and I got that problem federico3: anyway jpr: it didn't block factory updates at least federico3: oddly enough, my laptop installed more or less perfectly with beta1 except for the gdm bug, but my desktop got completely fubared rodrigo_: not major, but I'm seeing NM not updating /etc/resolv.conf federico3: the installer didn't finish, left everything half-configured, etc. jpr: fyi there are PackageKit and NM updates coming tomorrow federico3: I need to test beta3, I guess jpr: federico3: yes, the second stage stuff broke, tambeti: rodrigo_: there's a yast setting that might prevent NM to change /etc/resolv.conf federico3: jpr: ok rodrigo_: tambeti: oh, ok will look later federico3: as soon as I finish this PolicyKit stuff today or tomorrow, I want to work on monitor hotplug to finally kill resapplet tambeti: rodrigo_: grep for MODIFY_RESOLV_CONF in /etc/sysconfig/* -r **FunkyPenguin still has issues with NM and wireless on his HP but all works on his dell :/ jpr: i also learned this week that the "secure" permissions stuff that screwed up wpa_supplicant, PolicyKit etc jpr: was on accidientally in B1 because of the broken second stage stuff jpr: so thats why we saw it so much jpr: federico3: actually documenation people want to know about resapplet federico3: jpr: just replied jpr: ok jpr: federico3: i am concerned though jpr: i feel like i use that applet all the time federico3: jpr: for projectors? jpr: primarily Riggwelter: resapplet is very handy actually federico3: jpr: what if you remove resapplet from your desktop, add a launcher for gnome-display-properties, and see if it works out for you? federico3: I mean, in the meantime jpr: hmm jpr: i can try **jpr would kind of prefer keeping resapplet until the hotplug stuff worked jpr: anything else for factory? federico3: we could use a sexier GNOME icon in the first screen in the installer :) rodrigo_: cyberorg and I added some code to simple-ccsm to run tests on the hardware before activating compiz federico3: it's black vs. the blingy KDE icons :) rodrigo_: swo if people could test that... hpj: federico3: i think jakub committed one hpj: federico3: i mentioned it to him federico3: hpj: oh, sweet jpr: oh, and ricardo committed a ton of yast-gtk fixes jpr: for b3 jpr: and mmeeks a couple as well FunkyPenguin: yast-gtk is brilliant now hpj: federico3: i haven't seen it, supposedly it has a border to make it stand out a little better against that background FunkyPenguin: only complaint i suppose is the list of actions being carried out isnt clear enough **AlbertoP uses resapplet too :-?

Speaker: jpr jpr: ok, bugs jpr: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Bugs jpr: contains a list of queries and bug tag definitions jpr: the bugs are tagged in the whiteboard jpr: of bugzilla jpr: and hackers prioritize based on that jpr: gnome-showstopper first and gnome-function-does-not-work next jpr: (in order of severity within each one) jpr: if you have a *very* important bug you think is not getting enough attention jpr: please check its tag jpr: this is not an invitation to raise your pet bug :-) jpr: if you think it should get more attention, please raise it jpr: but aren't sure jpr: please ask jpr: that being said Riggwelter left the room (quit: Excess Flood). jpr: are there any bugs falling through the cracks right now? (GNOME related specifically - but I can talk to coolo about others) Riggwelter [n=ogley@opensuse/member/Riggwelter] entered the room. jpr: <jpr> are there any bugs falling through the cracks right now? (GNOME related specifically - but I can talk to coolo about others) jpr: (for Riggwelter :-) FunkyPenguin: there is a slight disagreement between HAL and NM over who's at fault for my issue :) rodrigo_: there is a very annoying one in pidgin, which hangs on GW fm: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=381584 has high severity but somehow is not really moving bugbot: openSUSE bug 381584 in openSUSE 11.0 (Network) "nm-applet crashes while connecting to WPA-Enterprise wlan" [Critical,New] Riggwelter: jpr: Thx, dunno what happened there **rodrigo_ chekcs its whiteboard hpj: rodrigo_: i'm seeing that one too jpr: tambeti: i believe bug 381584 will be fixed with tomorrow's submission? hpj: rodrigo_: i'm getting other bugs with GW too - it drops the connection when i receive messages sometimes tambeti: FunkyPenguin: do you have bug number handy? tambeti: jpr: just a sec, looking rodrigo_: hpj: it hangs for me when I get messages from people not in my addressbook **Riggwelter has a couple of open bugs: bug 375464 bugbot: openSUSE bug 375464 in openSUSE 11.0 (Banshee) "Helix Banshee crashes on startup" [Critical,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/375464 tambeti: bugbot: 381584 jpr: abock: ^^ helix-banshee status for 11.0? FunkyPenguin: yup Bug 382784 bugbot: openSUSE bug 382784 in openSUSE 11.0 (Network) "NM don't react on WLAN button and don't set kill switch status correctly" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/382784 tambeti: jpr: yes hpj: rodrigo_: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=387431 bugbot: openSUSE bug 387431 in openSUSE 11.0 (GNOME) "Random disconnects with Pidgin GW protocol" [Critical,New] Riggwelter: and bug 372713 bugbot: openSUSE bug 372713 in openSUSE 11.0 (Network) "NetworkManager is unable to connect to wireless network withour rcnetwork restart" [Major,Reopened] https://bugzilla.novell.com/372713 tambeti: jpr: (yes, 381584 will be fixed tomorrow) jpr: fm: ^^ rodrigo_: hpj: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=131588 <- that's the one I see bugbot: openSUSE bug 131588 in openSUSE 11.0 (GNOME) "pidgin cannot search ldap and groupwise addressbooks" [Normal,New] Riggwelter: Plus I opened two new ones today but no-one may have gotten around to them yet fm: tambeti: thanks. hpj: rodrigo_: that one isn't about hangs... or is it? Riggwelter: I think abock's died at his kb Riggwelter: even I struggle to manage 140 hours+ of idle time ;) rodrigo_: hpj: right, wrong bug, sorry **jpr adds gnome-function-does-not-work to 382784 - unfortunately "normal" is probably correct though jpr: rodrigo_, hpj can you guys run in valgrind? rodrigo_: yes **jpr tags the helix-banshee bug jpr: others? hpj: jpr: sure, but it isn't a crasher jpr: oh jpr: just the protocol disconnects? hpj: yeah hpj: i suspect a protocol implementation error **jpr wonders why he never sees it jpr: anyhow jpr: anything else falling under the radar? Riggwelter: there's also https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=387111 hpj: i'm a little worried about a bug on the build service bugbot: openSUSE bug 387111 in openSUSE 11.0 (OpenOffice.org) "British English dictionary doesn't work" [Normal,New] hpj: but that's kind of off-topic Riggwelter: mmeeks: If you're there, who should I ping about this? jpr: Riggwelter: i moved it to the right person jpr: hpj: yup :-)

Speaker: rodrigo Riggwelter: jpr: Ah, I missed the mail jpr: just now :-) jpr: rodrigo_: ... Riggwelter: jpr :) rodrigo_: ok, so some performance problems have been fixed, there are 2 remaining issues that some people see: Riggwelter: Is bug 372713 the same as bug 382784 or related perhaps? bugbot: openSUSE bug 372713 in openSUSE 11.0 (Network) "NetworkManager is unable to connect to wireless network withour rcnetwork restart" [Major,Reopened] https://bugzilla.novell.com/372713 bugbot: openSUSE bug 382784 in openSUSE 11.0 (Network) "NM don't react on WLAN button and don't set kill switch status correctly" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/382784 rodrigo_: * sound cut off under heavy load, not sure if that is normal, since I've seen it many times in the pre-PA days Riggwelter: whoops, sorry rodrigo_: * 5:1 doesn't work by default tambeti: Riggwelter: no rodrigo_: I'm not sure what to do on this, since we need to change some values in the system-wide config file jpr: what does alsa do? jpr: (by default) **jpr is concerned because ubuntu is taking a lot of heat for pulseaudio atm rodrigo_: well, there was a review someone pointed me out about opensuse PA integration being better AlbertoP: jpr, a lot of hate :) rodrigo_: cyberorg: wasn't you who pointed me to that ? AlbertoP: rodrigo_, yes, arstechnica rodrigo_: right rodrigo_: AlbertoP: do you have the url at hand ? cyberorg: rodrigo_, yeah there was one :) AlbertoP: rodrigo_, yup 1 sec AlbertoP: it's in the news.o.o rodrigo_: which means we really need to blog/announce more about it, if ubuntu is taking the heat with a worst integration AlbertoP: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080505-coming-along-strong-first-look-at-opensuse-11-beta-2.html cyberorg: rodrigo_, about 5.1 thing there really needs a button in PA tools somewhere that puts in required value in default.pa file rodrigo_: cyberorg: yes, that's what I was thinking cyberorg: rodrigo_, it can go in "Configure local sound server" rodrigo_: yes rodrigo_: another issue is the GUI of PA tools, they are far from perfect rodrigo_: but I guess we can work on them with upstream for post 11.0 cyberorg: simple list like stereo, 2.1, 3.1, 4.1, 5.1, 6.1, 7.1 etc rodrigo_: and integrate PA into the normal volume applet cyberorg: rodrigo_, normal volume applet work just fine jpr: oh? **jpr thought there were problems with it cyberorg: let users use normal applet to control their PCM and master, and PA if they want per app control rodrigo_: yeah, maybe we should use it by default, but then how they acces the PA tools ? cyberorg: jpr, no problem at all, they don't go through pa i guess rodrigo_: jpr: there are problems if the esound-compat package is not installed cyberorg: rodrigo_, make both applets available, PA is required so user get the feel of "better integration" and normal one to control their volume lewing_: jpr: is the bt fuction key bug progressing? rodrigo_: but it's a dependency now and is in the patterns jpr: lewing: in meeting :-) rodrigo_: not sure if we want both, but yeah, maybe jpr: both sounds bad rodrigo_: what do people think about having both in the default setup ? jpr: -1 cyberorg: jpr, pa applet is not a volume control, we can change its icon if required, but keep it there FunkyPenguin: +1 for both but changing the icon to something other than a speaker rodrigo_: cyberorg: instead of both, we could have more items in the menu of the volume applet hpj: like... **casualprogrammer asks himself why the average user should want a pa applet in his task bar... jpr: true, but the main complaint is complexity jpr: and .. jpr: (just what casualprogrammer said) cyberorg: rodrigo_, yeah that is one possibility if we can achieve that for 11.0 rodrigo_: cyberorg: it's an easy patch, so I guess so jpr: as a note i originally wanted it by default :-) **jpr stands corrected cyberorg: casualprogrammer, it is just marketing thing FunkyPenguin: good point /me recinds his +1 hpj: is the PA config accessible from the control center? rodrigo_: cyberorg: padevchooser is just spawning the different tools cyberorg: rodrigo_, yeah, add to context menu of normal volume control rodrigo_: hpj: no FunkyPenguin: hpj: that's a good place for it casualprogrammer: cyberorg: OK, what's that to do with usability ? hpj: we could also have 1 more item in the old volume control's menu - "Configure..." hpj: i think windows does that cyberorg: casualprogrammer, context menu? hpj: it takes you to their "control center" applet jpr: then we have nasty translation problems :-/ **federico3 wonders why he would ever need to configure a sound server jpr: (though maybe "configure" is already available) rodrigo_: hpj: we could launch the PA tools from the volume applet and the sound capple6 rodrigo_: no need, I think, to add 2/3 more capplets hpj: rodrigo_: yeah, that makes sense to me **casualprogrammer feels exactly as federico3, he doesn't even need one.. lewing_: hpj: there are already "Open Volume Control" and "Preferences" in that menu and you want "Configure" hpj: lewing_: hrm. yeah, it does kind of conflict with "Preferences" jpr: ok, we need to wrap this up jpr: what AI's do we have here? cyberorg: easiest way is change the icon and move on rodrigo_: I've got 2: rodrigo_: ∘ Use default volume applet but add menu items to launch the PA tools rodrigo_: ∘ Add PA tools to control-center (from sound capplet) **casualprogrammer thinks they could move the mute box to left click menu ( as suggested already ) and use the space to start pa applet jpr: ok jpr: lets review next week jpr: after we see B3 hpj: maybe only adding it to control-center will suffice jpr: or factory

Speaker: FunkyPenguin FunkyPenguin: ok so who wants a piece of me? FunkyPenguin: good ok so that's sorted, next item on the agenda :) cyberorg: i used monsoon for a day and was so annoyed by it, found out the way to make ktorrent default again :P FunkyPenguin: really, what annoyed you? hpj: i always used the default Bittorrent-gtk client **rodrigo_ too lewing_: monsson worked fine here lewing_: monsoon even hpj: ktorrent didn't work for me cyberorg: FunkyPenguin, it didn't seem to want to add more than 1 torrent at a time lewing_: cyberorg: I have several going right now? FunkyPenguin: yeah, that's a known bug which will be fixed shortly a patch has been submitted **casualprogrammer clicks on main menu monsoon icon, nothing happens.. lewing_: ah FunkyPenguin: casualprogrammer: i take it you're up to date? that should be fixed now FunkyPenguin: if you run it from terminal what error does it spew? **casualprogrammer types monsoon in terminal and gets unhandled exception, hrmm.. **alan wakes up alan: cyberorg: that's fixed casualprogrammer: FunkyPenguin: zypper tells me nothing to do alan: casualprogrammer: what's the exception? cyberorg: alan, cool, i'll give it a try once more :) FunkyPenguin: basically the question here folks is do we stick with monsoon or switch to transmission? mw: casualprogrammer: it'll take a little bit for the monsoon change to make it to factory casualprogrammer: alan: System.Net.Sockets.SocketException: No such host is known casualprogrammer: alan: and so forth alan: casualprogrammer: file a bug report with the stacktrace and whatnot cyberorg: FunkyPenguin, monsoon doesn't look that bad to replace it, if the bug is fixed it should be cool drdavis: Transmission is kind of nice. hpj: monsoon starts up for me, but i get some Gtk-CRITICALs casualprogrammer: alan: you think it's new bug ? alan: casualprogrammer: it's not something i've ever seen before casualprogrammer: alan: OK then, will do FunkyPenguin: personally i like monsoon - ticks all the boxes and is pretty easy to use, the question is what does EVERYONE else think alan: i gotta run FunkyPenguin: unfortunately that means trolls too :) jpr: i'm ok with it, i just have concerns around the reported bugs more than anything **casualprogrammer is ashamed as he didn't even know about monsoon and uses azureus secretly in his windows partition **FunkyPenguin points casualprogrammer to the corner FunkyPenguin: jpr: what reports? cyberorg: i am ok with it, no strong feelings for it either way, and i can always use ktorrent if it doesnt work too well ;) lewing_: jpr: is the bt fuction key bug progressing? lewing_: ;) **casualprogrammer goes to corner and hides his tears... jpr: FunkyPenguin: look for bugs assigned to alan FunkyPenguin: .me ooks hpj: feature-wise i'm fine with transmission or monsoon casualprogrammer: alan: do I file under sound or gnome hpj: i dunno about bugs though casualprogrammer: alan: ping jpr: FunkyPenguin: synopsis? FunkyPenguin: casualprogrammer: file it under GNOME jpr: FunkyPenguin: how do we proceed? FunkyPenguin: well we need a vote i suppose - when do you want the final descision by? jpr: love it by end of tomorrow casualprogrammer: FunkyPenguin: thanks, it just occured to me that it's nothing to do with sound anyway jpr: for b3 FunkyPenguin: when's b3? FunkyPenguin: ok can i take a poll of people here please, i'll post something shortly too jpr: submission deadline is tomorrow evening CEST jpr: probably up until monday for patterns FunkyPenguin: ok, so those happy with monsoon? FunkyPenguin: +1 rodrigo_: I'm not a power torrent user, so I can't really vote for one or the other, so +/-0 jpr: +/-0 hpj: 0 FunkyPenguin: rodrigo_: i chose one that i thought would appeal to the majority of people average/noob/pro FunkyPenguin: so from an average/noob user perspective it should be simple enough to use without confusing you rodrigo_: right, and both monsoon and transmission fit in? FunkyPenguin: from that perspective yes lewing_: +1 wfm and I'm mentoring alan for gsoc on it so... FunkyPenguin: hehe bugbot: New openSUSE 11.0 (GNOME) bug 388348 filed by casualprogrammer@yahoo.com. bugbot: Bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=388348 Blocker, P5 - None, NEW, monsoon crashes on start rodrigo_: heh, casualprogrammer wants to influence the voting by filing that bug just now :) lewing_: or supposed to be anyway... too much baby is about to come distraction this week jpr: its a dupe :-) jpr: already fixed but not synced FunkyPenguin: anymore votes? casualprogrammer: jpr: alan said it's new jpr: ok jpr: FunkyPenguin: we still love you dude jpr: :-) tambeti: rodrigo_: btw, about your /etc/resolv.conf bug... if NM is not allowed to change it, vpn most likely won't be able to resolv all internal machine names

Speaker: jpr jpr: so FunkyPenguin: jpr: thanks jpr: i am admittedly doing a terrible job jpr: of prepping for these meetings jpr: in terms of updating the wiki jpr: announcing jpr: etc jpr: so rodrigo_: tambeti: once I add the DNS servers to resolv.conf, everything works, but yes, will check after the meeting what setings are off in yast jpr: there are a couple of options jpr: 1) get a volunteer to do the "admin" work jpr: (and still run the meeting with me) jpr: 2) hand over all of it **jpr is kind of in favor of #2 jpr: but of course it depends on volunteers :-) casualprogrammer: jpr: what's the workload on the admin work ? rodrigo_: yes, #2 sounds good hpj: (fire your boss!) munkii: jpr: nah, you are doing fine munkii: /me is trying to boost jpr's confidence jpr: casualprogrammer: its about 20-30min per week jpr: most of it is already recorded in the wiki as a task list **casualprogrammer could do that between feeding the baby and cleaning the nappies jpr: the issue is doing it far enough in advance jpr: excellent sreeves: +1 for #1 with casualprogrammer taking over admin duties casualprogrammer: jpr: I volunteer for you then FunkyPenguin: +1 munkii: +1 rodrigo_: +1 :D FunkyPenguin: casualprogrammer: congrats on your promotion :D jpr: casualprogrammer: thanks dude! jpr: no suseROCKS, no tasks jpr: so hpj: +1 frees up jpr for other fun paperwork **casualprogrammer thinks jpr will send him the handbook soon

Speaker: everybody casualprogrammer: jpr: your'e welcome :-) jpr: questions? munkii: jpr: can we still get packages into factory? jpr: lewing: yes, bt seems like a tpctl bug atm jpr: munkii: not new packages FunkyPenguin: yeah, we are just choosing between monsoon and transmission? jpr: in some cases version updates hpj: that "fails to copy the first letter" thing that just happened to you with the topic happens a lot to me too jpr: depending lewing_: jpr: and suspend breaks the brightness control on the t60p jpr: hpj: it was a c/p error :-) hpj: i wonder if the selection algorithm could be fixed to select the character you click on jpr: lewing_: that one i'm not familiar with lewing_: jpr: it gets stuck in dim mode and won't change hpj: try typing out a bunch of 'w's hpj: and select some of them rodrigo_: tambeti: I have 'Change /etc/resolv.conf manually' insensitive in the GUI, is that the one you meant? munkii: jpr: we still need a multi-file renamer and mozplugger lewing_: ok I'll file after upgrading and testing on beta2 munkii: can we at least get them into g:c? jpr: munkii: we can still put them in G:C hpj: you'll notice that you have to click left of center of the leftmost w to select it jpr: yes jpr: munkii: discuss with Riggwelter :-) munkii: jpr: oh, good rodrigo_: tambeti: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=388266 <- the one I filed bugbot: openSUSE bug 388266 in openSUSE 11.0 (Network) "No DNS servers in /etc/resolv.conf when rebooting" [Normal,New] tambeti: rodrigo_: I don't know exactly. I know it's confusing and there are two script variables to control hidden in yast jpr: other questions? FunkyPenguin: jpr: sorry did you respond to choices? rodrigo_: tambeti: ok, coolo asked for some logs, will attach them jpr: FunkyPenguin: yes, in my view its monsoon or transmission only as choices Riggwelter: munkii: Email me tambeti: rodrigo_: naah, no need FunkyPenguin: cool beans, post almost done munkii: Riggwelter: will do tambeti: rodrigo_: grep MODIFY_RESOLV -r /etc/sysconfig/* tambeti: rodrigo_: should print out both of those variables tambeti: rodrigo_: they have to be "NO" rodrigo_: tambeti: ok, see bug tambeti: rodrigo_: with static IP /etc/sysconfig/network/config:MODIFY_RESOLV_CONF_DYNAMICALLY="yes" has to be "no" jpr: other questions? casualprogrammer: jpr: off topic or on topic ? jpr: hah jpr: on! jpr: off comes after munkii: jpr: shouldn't we have a new logo for monsoon prior to 11.0 release? jpr: don't ask me :-) rodrigo_: tambeti: so, it's a bug in yast you mean ? **jpr wraps up jpr: Thanks all!

• no AI's this week either! go workout or something..