Started at --> 04:02 jpr: Welcom to the openSUSE GNOME team meeting! jpr: our weekly team meeting about all that is gnome in opensuse jpr: :-) jpr: lets jump right in

Started at --> 04:03 jpr: overall, rough couple of weeks for factory :-/ jpr: first the zypper breakage, then the liboil break jpr: and now the grub/bootloader breakage jpr: feel free to jump in :-) jpr: i talked to AJ and coolo about the bootloader thing and they escalated it to the bootloader people (who are on the server team internally) jpr: if you have bugs about this, please give them to me so I can give them a complete list **FunkyPenguin still loves it - building a new server running on factory vuntz: jpr: I opened a bug earlier today FunkyPenguin: jpr: are the icons not showing up a known thing? jpr: vuntz: #? vuntz: bug 372688 bugbot: openSUSE bug 372688 in openSUSE 11.0 (Kernel) "Can't boot: /boot/initrd is a dangling symlink" [Critical,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=372688 jpr: FunkyPenguin: the yast icon is, thats fixed vuntz: FunkyPenguin: which icons? FunkyPenguin: ok but evo doesnt show up in main menu FunkyPenguin: oh sorry not icons, but the app name vuntz: indeed FunkyPenguin: icon is there with a description but not the app name jpr: not known jpr: (at least to me) FunkyPenguin: ok i'll file a bug vuntz: the Name key only exists for some languages... jpr: FunkyPenguin: could you publish how to work around the kernel issues to opensuse-factory@ FunkyPenguin: surely english is one of them jpr: vuntz: but not C locale? FunkyPenguin: jpr: sure vuntz: jpr: no, and not fr either jpr: huh vuntz: jpr: I'll look into this jpr: sounds like an %suse_update_desktop_file bug jpr: but /me does not see it jpr: ok jpr: anything else to add on factory? jpr: 2.22.0 is all available vuntz: seems to work fine once you can boot :-) jpr: hehe jpr: also since a3 is out now jpr: can someone add screenshots to http://en.opensuse.org/Screenshots/openSUSE_11.0_Alpha3 jpr: ? jpr: for GNOME jpr: no volunteers? :-) Riggwelter: jpr: vanilla install? jpr: this is an easy one, no coding required jpr: Riggwelter: yep Riggwelter: jpr: AI me for it jpr: AI: Riggwelter to add GNOME a3 screenshots to http://en.opensuse.org/Screenshots/openSUSE_11.0_Alpha3 jpr: thanks! **Riggwelter fires up xnest jpr: we seem to be missing a federico jpr: so while I call him

Started at --> 04:12 jpr: mw: ? hpj: today is a holiday in mexico jpr: ah hpj: as is tomorrow jpr: that hurts the agenda a little :-) jpr: mw was here this morning though jpr: mw: still there? jpr: ok then jpr: http://en.opensuse.org/Packaging/Packaging_Day hpj: he mentioned that he's working today mw: i'm here jpr: mw: take it away :-) mw: i have to let Tambet out mw: be back in 3 minutes jpr: hehe jpr: ok

Started at --> 04:15 jpr: vuntz: lets move on for now then jpr: * Wishlist review (includes both bugzilla RFE and the wiki wishlist) to see what we should include jpr: * Package review to see what we should drop jpr: * Pattern review to see what should be installed be default jpr: * Policy review to see what defaults we should have vuntz: I can talk about pattern & policy review, but not about wishlist & package :-) jpr: start there :-) vuntz: ok, policy first, then vuntz: with the new gconf2-branding-openSUSE package, this will be much easier vuntz: that's basically about knowing which changes in the default config we have and which ones we want to keep **mw back vuntz: most (if not all) changes related to gconf are now living in gconf2-branding-openSUSE jpr: nice vuntz: so we should take a look at them and decide if we want to keep them jpr: originally i started posting a list at: jpr: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Desktop_Policy jpr: vuntz: is there a better way to do this now? jpr: email discussion? vuntz: I can probably do a first go at describing all the changes, then we can discuss them on the list jpr: or? jpr: ok vuntz: then, there are non-gconf changes. I don't know how to identify them Riggwelter: brb vuntz: that's probably something we should do with the patch tagging work, I guess vuntz: I don't know if adding a new tag would help (too many tags would harm) jpr: true **jpr suspects there are relatively few of these as well jpr: like 10 or less vuntz: well, we'll postpone the discussion about those changes for now, I guess :-) jpr: yes vuntz: there's already much work to do with the gconf ones, I guess jpr: just getting a grip on the gconf ones would be good jpr: (man its quiet in here today) jpr: (easter i guess) vuntz: then, pattern review vuntz: this needs some discussion, obviously vuntz: but basically, this comes down from the fact that when I install openSUSE, I get tons of stuff that feels useless to me vuntz: we have tons of stuff in our menus, eg vuntz: I think the GNOME CD would benefit from being... hmm... "cleaner" hpj: examples? vuntz: gftp vuntz: let me open the app browser vuntz: jarnal, planner **captain_magnus don't think examples belongs in this discussion... vuntz: xournal hpj: i agree in principle, just curious if our definitions of cleanliness overlap sufficiently vuntz: yeah, that's hard because it's very subjective hpj: i agree with those you listed, at least **suseROCKs has never heard of xournal or jarnal jpr: so we need to examine how those end up in our patterns jpr: to fix it, its as easy as filing bugs in the "patterns" component vuntz: so the idea is just to look at the apps coming with the patterns that are installed with the gnome cd jpr: i know captain_magnus was interested in looking at this jpr: the patterns-openSUSE source package has the actual patterns vuntz: cool, I was missing this data :-) **vuntz didn't know where to look vuntz: captain_magnus: want to work on that? captain_magnus: vuntz: Sure jpr: AI: captain_magnus to kick start GNOME CD pattern discussion jpr: note, that items in the patterns not on the media jpr: won't get installed obviously Riggwelter: jpr: default screenshot for wiki reveals a panel bug :) jpr: but consider what you want on the dvd jpr: and cd jpr: we list everything for the dvd pattern **captain_magnus wonder if there should jpr should also do ==> Ai: vuntz to kick start GNOME Desktop Policy Review discussion on ML jpr: and remove from the media anything we don't wont from the cd jpr: (does that make sense) jpr: AI: vuntz to kickstart GNOME dekstop Policy Review discussion on ML captain_magnus: jpr: Yes, makes sense jpr: for Package Review jpr: that is essentially done jpr: i vetted that on maw's spreadsheet jpr: several weeks ago jpr: there are outstanding bugs on two things jpr: gnome-keyring-manager needs dropping and so does at-poke jpr: both things for hpj to do :-) hpj: i'm on it jpr: for wishlist, yes should take a look there jpr: AI: jpr to kickstart mailing list discussion on wishlist packagess jpr: anything else here? jpr: AI: add agenda item to review the kickstart of these action items next meeting FunkyPenguin: jpr: mail sent, should it be bloged too?

Started at --> 04:31 mw: ok suseROCKs: can I request to be bumped up? I'll only take a minute, I gotta take a call. jpr: FunkyPenguin: might be nice - we could start a regular "how to keep factory alive and kicking" mail/blog with you at the helm :-) mw: fine with me

Started at --> 04:32 suseROCKs: Ok short and sweet.... suseROCKs: We have two weeks left of using Tasque and RTM (that's right, tasky is now Tasque) FunkyPenguin: heh, easy tiger :) suseROCKs: After that we will revert back to wiki suseROCKs: We've been lax on taking care of our tasks, for various good reasons suseROCKs: Next week I'm going to start cleaning up and chasing everyone down to status-set their respective tasks suseROCKs: The End suseROCKs: Rooooaaar! jpr: very good, thanks jpr: mw: ok, for real this time :-) mw: hehe suseROCKs: oh wait... suseROCKs: just kidding... mw: so like a few months ago, we're running another pair of packaging days early next month mw: april 4 and 5, specifically mw: http://en.opensuse.org/Packaging/Packaging_Day has the details mw: does anyone have any questions about it they'd like answered? jpr: mw: is the focus on helping people learn this time again jpr: or more on getting new packages mw: i guess it depends mostly on who turns out mw: err, ... who turns up jpr: ok

Started at --> 04:37 jpr: in lieue of feddy jpr: http://en.opensuse.org/Summer_of_Code_2008 jpr: please push your ideas there jpr: for opensuse/gnome (project) related SoC tasks jpr: we'll skip bug week until next week

Started at --> 04:38 **Riggwelter goes to bath Rigg Jr jpr: mw: ok, i added this, but I was thinking bug review for all 2.0 FF bugs might be good jpr: :- jpr: ) jpr: and thats more project wide than gnome-centric mw: nod mw: i think next week would be a good time to do it mw: i'd want to run that by wolfgang first, though jpr: mw: ok - you'll talk to wolfir? zonker can help publicize jpr: sounds good

Started at --> 04:42 jpr: hpj, cyberorg ? hpj: cyberorg: around? hpj: we've decided to drop gnome-xgl-settings, at least for GNOME hpj: we might have to keep it in place for KDE hpj: it will be replaced by a system-wide configuration option captain_magnus: hpj: That's the "Desktop Effects" thing in Control Center? hpj: the discussion of what that will look like is on on opensuse-factory@ hpj: captain_magnus: yeah hpj: something in yast, maybe jpr: hpj: what replaces the simpler plugin configuration? hpj: there's been talk of a "desktop effects" tab in the appearance capplet jpr: ok jpr: whats the alternative ? hpj: to the desktop effects tab? jpr: yes hpj: keeping gnome-xgl-settings around, i guess jpr: if its not in the appearance capplet, how do we get a simplified user setup **jpr remembers something about a simple-ccsm hpj: we might have to keep it around for KDE anyway jpr: ok jpr: are we using gconf or ccsm flatfile for settings? hpj: hmmm, i don't know about that hpj: cyberorg or rodrigo probably would jpr: ok jpr: scott and rodrigo are both away today vuntz: does anyone know if the current config backend uses the metacity config by default? jpr: so... vuntz: for keybindings, eg jpr: vuntz: it should for keybindings vuntz: cool

Started at --> 04:50 jpr: questions? jpr: (shortish meeting today :-) ) captain_magnus: No packagekit updates? jpr: well, i can give a small update jpr: update system works now jpr: try it with pk-update-icon jpr: in your panel jpr: it has a couple of annoying issues though jpr: that scott should have fixed shortly captain_magnus: Do you get that icon on A3? I don't... jpr: and we can start the real testing after that jpr: captain_magnus: no, install gnome-packagekit captain_magnus: jpr: Yeah, did that... And normally after running on of the programs (update system etc) the applet starts... But not with A3... captain_magnus: jpr: Anyway, I'll investigate later jpr: it has an autostart file i think jpr: federico1: is that really you? :-) jpr: other questions? federico1: jpr: umm, the one and only :) **federico1 is horribly late today captain_magnus: jpr: When the meeting is over, please don't add "meeting over, bla bla" to the topic... jpr: federico1: yep, thanks for coming on the holidy though jpr: captain_magnus: ok jpr: federico1: want to mention multiscreen hackfest? federico1: yeah! federico1: so federico1: I'm thinking of having the multiscreen bug fortnight not next week, but the one after that federico1: so as to use next week to prepare everything... figure out the situation with X drivers, soeren's work on multiscreen configuration, etc. federico1: I want to take care of some of the panel / metacity bugs, and hopefully get the nice configuration GUI in place federico1: so that when you plug in an external monitor, the system will ask you what you want to do captain_magnus: ^^ Lovely :-) jpr: finally jpr: the projector problem jpr: :-) jpr: any other questions? vuntz: federico1: I think I already asked you some time ago, but is the hack week for randr only, or for every multiscreen mode (multihead that's non-xinerama included)? **jpr thinks we should stick to randr captain_magnus: Hmm... Is multihead cloned only? Or what's the difference between non-xinerama and xinerama? vuntz: captain_magnus: you can have a mode where you have two independent screens, and a mode where you have one big screen captain_magnus: Two independent screens meaning you can't drag windows between them? vuntz: eg, some of the panel bugs only happen in non-xinerama cases, I believe vuntz: captain_magnus: yep vuntz: captain_magnus: but you can have worskpace 1 on monitor 1 and workspace 3 on monitor 2 vuntz: (which is useful to some people, it seems) federico1: vuntz: just randr federico1: vuntz: multiple X screens are soooo eighties :) captain_magnus: vuntz: Then there's some setting where you have "one big screen" and when you maximize a window it will cover both monitors... And then you have a setting where you have "one big screen" and when you maximize a window, it will only maximize on one monitor... What's the difference there and what is those modes called? vuntz: federico1: then there shouldn't be any panel bug ;-) Too easy, dude! jpr: lets see how it goes vuntz: but I agree, randr is what makes sense jpr: LAST CALL FOR QUESTIONS captain_magnus: federico1: I have multiple X screens in Xinerama as one of my monitors is rotated and the other one isn't... federico1: captain_magnus: oh, we totally suck in that case - the code in general is not very smart about L-shaped displays or other weird shapes federico1: captain_magnus: aseigo was blogging about panel struts the other day - http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/03/multiscreen-x.html so we may need to update window managers and the WM spec as well vuntz: captain_magnus: yeah, I don't know in which case the maximized window cover both screens. My multihead-fu is not strong enough. captain_magnus: Ok, I'm done with questions :-) jpr: ok :-) jpr: thanks all! Meeting ended at --> 05:05

• AI: Riggwelter to add GNOME a3 screenshots to http://en.opensuse.org/Screenshots/openSUSE_11.0_Alpha3
• AI: captain_magnus to kick start GNOME CD pattern discussion
• AI: vuntz to kickstart GNOME dekstop Policy Review discussion on ML
• AI: jpr to kickstart mailing list discussion on wishlist packagess
• AI: add agenda item to review the kickstart of these action items next meeting