Started at --> 00 jpr: welcome to the weekly openSUSE GNOME team meeting! jpr: i'm glad to be back :-) jpr: although i think mw did a better job than me running the meeting jpr: so maybe i will delegate in future :-) rodrigo: yeah, us too, last week with mw's directing the meeting, it was a complete disaster :) ** jpr notes rodrigo's spanglish is confusing

Started at --> 00 jpr: mw, sreeves ( and i guess a bit of hpj now too) jpr: take it away sreeves: so as you probably noticed factory updating was a bit rough this week sreeves: as factory was not available for a large chunk of it sreeves: I personally have not done any factory updating this week mw: right, lots of hardware problems this week sreeves: but it is back online and available now mw: maybe in the future the build infrastructure will move back to paper and pencil :) suseROCKs: I'd like to add that GNOME is now installable on Alpha from Factory. (Tested last night) sreeves: nice. thats probably it for this week. jpr: short and sweet hpj: X still crashes in vmware hpj: that's a bit of a stumbling block for testing the latest jpr: hpj: but the kernel boots now? suseROCKs: Only problem is for me there's a package missing which makes it not able to communicate properly on the network. hpj: yeah, for me it does btimothy: hpj: i caught an update during the week that didn't have that problem sreeves: hpj - is there a bug for that ? btimothy: X worked, booting worked, etc. jpr: coolo listed other notable updates in mail hpj: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=353489 bugbot: openSUSE bug 353489 in openSUSE 11.0 (X.Org) "vmware: gdm crashes Xserver on startup" [Critical,Assigned] jpr: and firefox is busted hpj: we have a good backtrace, so just waiting for a fix from the xorg team jpr: but mw is submitting the fix asap :-) sreeves: okay, kernel issues fixed but now X - at least we are moving up the stack hpj: btimothy: i'm a bit surprised as i don't think anything changed :) jpr: for http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/11.0/Testing jpr: are we putting anything up there? btimothy: hpj: i ran an update, rebooted, and i was logged-in to my desktop btimothy: ? hpj: btimothy: odd sreeves: I get the X crash hpj: you won't get it with kdm jpr: maybe autologin makes it work hpj: gdm exercises the code path that crashes it hpj: jpr: good point hpj: anyway, the known workaround is using kdm for the time being jpr: ok jpr: AI: people to add items to testing page

Started at --> 00 suseROCKs: yes, it was such a beautifully designed page, whoever did that... Kudos! jpr: a couple of months of ago http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Desktop_Policy jpr: is a link i brought up in this meeting jpr: we've expanded it a bit jpr: but we need to finish listing all the decisions jpr: (we should be able to search for patchs to .schema files) jpr: and then review them and make the changes federico1: eeek, I forgot about the meeting jpr: the biggest no brainer jpr: i see is the number of desktops jpr: bumping that up again jpr: the others need some discussion and planning jpr: like the face browser jpr: rodrigo: you were going to add to that page as you did the patch upstreaming right? rodrigo: yes jpr: or maybe we should just do some grepping jpr: so we can start the discussion sooner rodrigo: yes, probably jpr: thoughts from people? btimothy: face browser? what's that exactly? on the GDM login screen? jpr: btimothy: yes mw: is click to focus popular among opensuse users? suseROCKs: click to focus? mw: changing to sloppy focus is among the first things i do in a fresh install jpr: luddite mw: :) jpr: lets start with the things we currently change from upstream default jpr: then worry about things we don't :-) jpr: AI: JP to grep for desktop policy changes, update wiki and mail the list to start discussion

Started at --> 00 btimothy: speaking of tasks...looks like you need to enter that one jpr  :) btimothy: okay, so i asked everyone to review their tasks BEFORE this meeting started btimothy: let me refresh the page and see how that went btimothy: riggwelter did some work this week with his G:C stuff btimothy: and sent mails to the list btimothy: i'll wait for him to update the status btimothy: of his task btimothy: jpr: could you please update your 10.3 boxed product stuff to be relevant for the changes we talked abt. before? btimothy: i.e., t-shirts/etc. instead of boxed products btimothy: jpr: and reset the due date jpr: will do btimothy: thanks btimothy: rodrigo: update for pulse audio? rodrigo: well, not much, kde is not interested about pulseaudio btimothy: bummer :( rodrigo: and haven't got any feedback for the rest of the distro jpr: rodrigo: should we just close it and move on? jpr: rodrigo: one last try might be the XFCE guys btimothy: rodrigo: can you reset the due date ... and add what you just said to the notes? rodrigo: so I guess we can continue as gnome-only/specific apps setup, and see if people like it, they'll switch rodrigo: yeah btimothy: rodrigo: in any case, add your research and update to the notes and postpone or close/complete the task btimothy: so we'll have this on record :) btimothy: okay anyone here who's discussed meeting times? btimothy: i think we didn't really get resolution from that jpr: yes, next time shift meeting is fast approaching btimothy: so we will still plan to have those? btimothy: i can reset the due date and mail the list to make sure they talk abt. it btimothy: perhaps the discussion should happen openly on the mailing list intead of here suseROCKs: I think because magnus is out on Novell Duty, that task didn't get reviewed. ** btimothy will reset the due date and get that discussion rolling btimothy: federico1: multi-screen hackfest? btimothy: moving on ... jpr, review of GNOME-related patterns? jpr: yes, resetting time btimothy: jpr: fair enough, thanks jpr: next week we can probably get to it jpr: it just requires some prep work btimothy: k ... please add that to the notes of the task btimothy: we really shouldn't have these outstanding overdue tasks btimothy: ;)( btimothy: rodrigo: automate install of distro? rodrigo: have looked at kiwi, it might work for doing iso's rodrigo: need to investigate further how to automate it btimothy: rodrigo: you know the drill...add a note or two of what you've done so far and reschedule your due date :) rodrigo: if anyone has experience with kiwi, I'd be glad to get some help :) rodrigo: :) btimothy: rodrigo: possibly mail the mailing list ... since we don't have everyone here in IRC? federico1: btimothy: after the baby, certainly :) our doctor told us yesterday that he'll pull the baby out on saturday jpr: rodrigo: i think the whole distro is thinking about that btimothy: federico1: :) jpr: AI: Federico to become father jpr: rodrigo: so you might want to contact coolo rodrigo: federico1: great!! :-) jpr: or aj suseROCKs: Papa Fede! rodrigo: jpr: pl rodrigo: ok btimothy: you mean federico1 to become zombie (sleepless nights) :) btimothy: okay, anything else anyone wants to mention abt. open tasks not quite due?

Started at --> 00 suseROCKs: Okay, last meeting we all agreed we should have a separate meeting day to go over the list of items on our Ideas page. suseROCKs: hpj and I agreed the best way is to just go through the list one by one during the meeting. suseROCKs: Since the object of this meeting is to take advantage of everyone's collective knowledge of all things big and small... suseROCKs: we need to decide what's a good day and time to do this. Hopefully 2-4 hours. The shorter the better, jpr: wow, that seems long suseROCKs: well in the last meeting it was agreed that Ideas as a theme meeting would not be sufficient. suseROCKs: If we should do it in a dedicated 1 hour session, then we'll do it that way. hpj: it's more like bug triaging than a meeting jpr: ok hpj: i think ** jpr is a bit out of date jpr: is the purpose to review features and ok or reject them jpr: or...? suseROCKs: review as well as help others who are encountering roadblocks trying to make it happen. suseROCKs: any comments to support or disagree with having an Ideas Day? rodrigo: +1 jpr: i'm not sure i understand the desired outcome jpr: so +-0 jpr: (neutral) hpj: suseROCKs: you mentioned to me that you wanted it to be about clarifying ideas and listing resources for each one suseROCKs: yes jpr: ah, ok jpr: +1 hpj: so it's about "fleshing out the list" in that way suseROCKs: like for me, for example, I'm having some roadblocks in getting proper information for my a11y ideas. btimothy: so maybe start with one hour and reschedule the next meeting at the end ... ? suseROCKs: and I'm sure others are too. jpr: we should probably discuss usage of openfate wrt that jpr: i like btimothy 's proposal jpr: spend an hour to get the format right jpr: then go full steam ahead hpj: +1 suseROCKs: btimothy, that's a good idea. I'd love if everyone spent a whole day on this and get it over with, but that's not realistic at all. The idea here is to get as many people in at one time. suseROCKs: So shorter meetings is a good idea. +1 hpj: we could keep going overtime until people lose focus/run out of steam/need to eat suseROCKs: Well, we are providing bagels and pastries. federico1: or divide up the features into groups and do each group on a different day, so people don't burn out listening to features they don't care about :) suseROCKs: hpj and I looked at that and couldn't come up with a good group subdivision plan. btimothy: well, maybe if we list the first few we want to tackle in the first meeting ... btimothy: perhaps those interested will appear :) btimothy: and then we can readjust depending on how that first time goes suseROCKs: ok jpr: alright hpj: i think it would be possible to subdivide suseROCKs: in the interest of keeping this meeting going. ... we'll talk more afterwards. hpj: even arbitrarily if we have to jpr: AI: suseROCKs , hpj to schedule ideas meeting jpr: subdividing might help people to show up jpr: for things they care about

Started at --> 00 suseROCKs: well can we get an idea of when is an optimally good time? jpr: federico1: go man go jpr: SUSEhelp: probably around the time of this meeting suseROCKs: ok federico1: FOSDEM? federico1: well federico1: the the whole team will be there, except for yours truly federico1: so, anyone who is going should go and hang out with the opensuse-gnome crew federico1: there are some interesting talks, notably one about PackageKit by Richard Hughes rodrigo: there is a GNOME room also jpr: and an openSUSE room suseROCKs: Who's in charge of bringing back souveneirs for me? mw: is there a chocolate and beer room? rodrigo: http://live.gnome.org/Brussels2008 federico1: mw: the whole city is a chocolate and beer room rodrigo: :) mw: sweet federico1: oh federico1: one tip: mw: will everyone going still be around on monday (feb 25) night? federico1: don't buy the expensive chocolates at chocolate shops; buy the inexpensive ones at the supermarket, they are just as good federico1: Cote d'Or with nuts is fantastic :) rodrigo: mw: /me leave on the 26th at night jpr: mw: you, me, btimothy, sreeves, hpj, rodrigo at least :-) jpr: ok mw: i don't believe in chocolate with nuts, because nuts have at least some marginal nutritional value

Started at --> 00 jpr: Q&A jpr: questions? suseROCKs: What's the status of 2.21 into Alpha? mw: suseROCKs: really delayed suseROCKs: ok mw: i've been too busy with other things to get much of it updated mw: the latest evo is in, though suseROCKs: I don't have any insignificant questions to answer this week, and I think I'm the only non-dev here so :-) hpj: what's hot in the latest evo? hpj: bug fixes? memory use reductions? features? mw: definitely a number of new features suseROCKs: what version is it? mw: evolution and e-d-s 2.21.5 suseROCKs: cool ** hpj gives a thumbs-up mw: they released e-d-s 2.21.5.1, but i didn't bother -- the only difference is included as a patch jpr: it would be nice to get gnome-panel 2.21.5 in with integrated international clock too! jpr: (and drop a package) suseROCKs: yeah... since yapping with you all, I've really depended on intlclock federico1: jpr: drop a package, add one - now it requires libgweather :) jpr: hah federico1: mw: btw, I have your specfile for libgweather with some tweaks... is that a useful starting point for you, or should I just ditch it? ** federico1 does the "I'm having a baby, you do all my work" dance :) jpr: any other questiosn? mw: federico1: send me or point me at what you've got and i'll see that it gets in mw: ...or gets fixed or whatever federico1: mw: sure, one sec

Started at --> 00 sreeves: as per JP's email to the opensuse-gnome list we are pushing out a nice collection of fixes sreeves: it appears that most people that have tried this update report things as fixed sreeves: you can find them at zypper ar http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/GNOME:/test-updates:/10.3/openSUSE_10.3/ gnome-test-10.3 sreeves: follow his email for the specific steps if you want - make sure and add gnome-main-menu to the list of packages to install (missing in the steps in the email ) sreeves: anybody have anything bad to say about this set of updates - ie seen problems with it jpr: i think we can release this next week btw sreeves: I have them all installed and they look good to me rodrigo: haven't seen any problem, running now for a few days with them federico1: mw: sent mw: federico1: ta jpr: ok

Started at --> 00 sreeves: and btw - the real updates will not have the downgrade version issue hpj: ok jpr: AI: jpr/sreeves release 10.3 updates hpj: i think we covered a lot of this in the factory testing and task segments hpj: anyone want to take the floor? rodrigo: not sure if I should say something about the patch upstreaming project now? hpj: yes, go ahead please rodrigo: ok, I've started this http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Projects/PatchUpstreaming rodrigo: in order to reduce the number of patches in our packages rodrigo: I'm now running a 'osc listpatches' on the whole openSUSE:Factory repo rodrigo: and will start from there rodrigo: not sure if we should appoint some hacking days for this also, what do you think? rodrigo: minly because it's a lot of work for just one person rodrigo: and I would need the authors of most patches to comment on them jpr: i would be interested in helping out with some packages that i know well at least hpj: that sounds like a good idea hpj: i'd help out rodrigo: great jpr: (or patches that I wrote) hpj: like a patch review day rodrigo: to start, PLEASE TAG all patches in your packages rodrigo: as part of the upstreaming, we need to do the tagging properly hpj: could you paste the tagging guidelines URL? rodrigo: so that in the long term we always have easy to manage patches rodrigo: yes -> http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Patches federico1: rodrigo: yeah, I'd help out with my packages jpr: yes, please do that for any new patches rodrigo: it would be great if, any time we change a package, we had a look at the list of patches and tag them btimothy: by "tagging" you're talking abt. the commented line in the *.spec file, right? rodrigo: yes jpr: also, when building patches, please take a look at the configure output rodrigo: btimothy: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Patches#Patch_Markup jpr: for missing build deps :-) btimothy: btw, the word "tag" does not appear on the GNOME/Patches page ** jpr added some features recently doing that hpj: yeah, missing build deps have caused problems on various occasions rodrigo: so, apart from individual work on tagging/marking the patches when we update them, what do you think about doing some day (or half day) for patch review? hpj: in many cases, packages will just disable some of their features jpr: rodrigo: +1 (like bug day except for patches) hpj: rodrigo: want to do it? hpj: rodrigo: i mean plan it rodrigo: yes hpj: rodrigo: +1 btimothy: rodrigo: GNOME/Patches _now_ has the word "tag"  ;) hpj: AI: rodrigo to plan patch review day rodrigo: btimothy: :-) mw: +1 on patch review day hpj: i don't think we have much more for this section btimothy: AI: rodrigo: schedule and plan a patch review day hpj: mw talked about GNOME updates earlier ** btimothy adds it to RTM hpj: federico mentioned intlclock

Started at --> 00 jpr: questions? jpr: rodrigo: pulseaudio still can't monitor volume or sources for me in Factory (permissions error?) jpr: rodrigo: whats going on there? rodrigo: works for me, although not really in factory, just on a 10.3 updated system, so will look at it as soon as I install alpha0 (downloading iso now) rodrigo: '10.3 updated to factory' system jpr: ok jpr: other questions? sreeves: has anyone got NM 0.7 to connect up with a secured wireless access point ? suseROCKs: rodrigo, where'd you find the iso? Or is it the same as the one I linked earlier? rodrigo: suseROCKs: the one you linked earlier rodrigo: boot.iso suseROCKs: ok hpj: sreeves: i had problems with that before, but i assumed it was madwifi hpj: sreeves: i have to use cable on factory jpr: i should also note that cmr would like us to consider moving to system-config-printer instead of gnome-cups-manager jpr: https://build.opensuse.org/project/show?project=home%3Achrismrivera jpr: originally a project by redhat jpr: ubuntu uses it now jpr: and it will get policykit integration soon hpj: i don't know what the pros and cons are btimothy: policykit integration ... yum :) hpj: i assume everything will get policykit integration eventually :) jpr: hpj: pro is we no longer maintain gnome-cups-manager btimothy: everyting with policykit integration? tasty! jpr: and work with the other distros jpr: instead :-) jpr: as for the other pros/cons hpj: sounds like it would make sense jpr: we need to try it out jpr: other questions? DimStar: sreeves: my NM 0.7 connects to a WPA wlan.. but not when essid hidden sreeves: DimStar: are you using madwifi jpr: DimStar: the hidden part is known i believe DimStar: sreeves: no.. a centrino chip sreeves: hmm, maybe it's madwifi specific tambet: DimStar: sreeves: There's a driver patch for this which is going to the next kernel version DimStar: tambet: Thanks for the info! sreeves: tambet: cool hpj: i had to use madwifi HEAD to get it to compile against our factory kernel, and even that didn't solve the problem jpr: anything else? jpr: thank you all!

• Everyone: Add items to testing page
• JP: grep for desktop policy changes, update wiki and mail the list to start discussion
• Federico to become father
• suseROCKs , hpj to schedule ideas meeting
• jpr/sreeves release 10.3 updates
• rodrigo: schedule and plan a patch review day