Started at --> 06:00:57 PM jpr: Welcome to the openSUSE GNOME meeting! jpr: We have another in our continuing series of theme meetings this week jpr: featuring NetworkManager with realjoe, tambet and hschaa captain_magnus: realjoe: tambet: hschaa: Welcome :-) jpr: also time to start some followup on openSUSE 11.0 development after our kickoff meeting last week

Started at --> 06:02:11 PM jpr: tambet, realjoe, hschaa : take it away - a little intro from each of you and then an overview of NM for openSUSE 11.0 would be great hschaa: tambet: you're the first :) tambet: I am tambet and I work on NetworkManager :) *captain_magnus things everybody should say "Hello Tambet" jpr: hehe suseROCKS: "Hello Tambet" mw: hello Tambet "bono" Ingo dliang: tambet: hello jpr: tambet works for Novell and has been working on NM for about a year now tambet? munkii: captain_magnus, this's not group therapy jpr: with Dan Williams from RedHat psp250: Hello Tambet munkii: =P tambet: yeah, almost exactly for a year captain_magnus: munkii: Ops... Confused this meeting with AA jpr: realjoe: and you? :-) GuanjunHe: hello tambet realjoe: my name is Joachim Gleissner (nickname joe), I am responsible for WLAN support jpr: hschaa: and you sir? realjoe: I have implemented wlan support in the network subsystem ( realjoe: the traditional setup) captain_magnus: Hello realjoe :-) hschaa: I'm Helmut Schaa and I am the current KNetworkManager maintainer and I'm also helping realjoe with his wireless stuff jpr: together realjoe, tambet and hschaa are largely responsible for the future of openSUSE networking on GNOME and KDE :-) captain_magnus: hschaa: G'day munkii: yep, welcome all, to our little meeting suseROCKS: You are our heroes jpr: realjoe: maybe you could start off by giving us an over view of whats going on with the new wireless driver stuff in the kernel? realjoe: sure realjoe: most probably noticed already that we have a new wlan stack now in the kernel munkii: and how is that different from former releases? captain_magnus: munkii: Not q&a yet... realjoe: that will help us in the future, because with a common stack, all drivers should now behave the same (or at least similar) realjoe: in the past, a lot of drivers made us trouble because they behaved differently realjoe: and drivers using the new stack (it's called mac80211, btw) automatically get features like WPA munkii: that includes property drivers? realjoe: munkii: property drivers? jpr: proprietary i think he means :-) realjoe: oh, I see munkii: yep realjoe: well, if they use the stack, yes realjoe: but it's probably not legal ;) ivanz: I have a question... How can I debug what NM does without a debugger? ivanz: :) jpr: ivanz: q&a right after this initial info from the guys ivanz: ai ai jpr: realjoe: anything else you'd like to add about wlan for 11.0? jpr: any links to debugging instructions, anything like that¿ munkii: realjoe: does that mean support for more hardware, or is it the same? realjoe: no, not really ;) realjoe: munkii: the stack itself does not automatically mean more hardware supported jpr: hschaa: would you give us on update on knm for NM 0.7 and kde 4 plans for NM? hschaa: sure hschaa: I'm currently porting KNM to the new NM-0.7 API which will add los of new stuff. Thats still for KDE3. hschaa: I'm trying to support for all the new shiny stuff NM 0.7 allows to do, for example multiple active devices :) tambet: hschaa: don't steal my thunder! hschaa: sorry tambet :) And for KDE4, it's not clear if KNM will get ported to it hschaa: KDE4 will get a new abstraction layer called SOLID which will do the communication with NM munki: did somebody turn off the mic? jpr: tambet: ok, now what about all the goodies in NM 0.7 :-) tambet: ok tambet: I prepared a small introduction on the past and present of NetworkManager first: tambet: If it seems it has been really quite in the NetworkManager land, then it's sort of right. tambet: There hasn't gone much work into the NetworkManager versions we've shipped (including 10.3). tambet: That's because I've been working on a new branch which is pretty much a rewrite. tambet: It was required since NM sort of evolved from an applet that was used only for controlling wireless devices, tambet: the support for wired devices was just wedged in. tambet: It was pretty much impossible to add new features like new device types etc to it. tambet: Now the required rework is finally done and we've managed to sneak in some new features as well: tambet: predefined connections or profiles, tambet: predefined connections or profistatic IP addresses (more than one!), DNS servers, domain searches for connections, tambet: multiple active device (disabled at the moment since the UI hasn't been updated for it). tambet: What's going on right now? tambet: There are just two people working on NetworkManager: Dan Williams (the maintainer, from RH) and me. tambet: Dan is just finishing his rework on certificate handling, something that has been requested a lot by corporate customers. A small sneak peek to it's features: It's using mozilla'nss now, which means we can get certificates from smart cards now. tambet: I was working on getting the new branch included in opensuse factory this week. I'm pretty much done, should happen very soon now. Also, I started working (again) on adding support for serial devices in general and UMTS/GPRS cards. I expect to have the code in SVN by the end of next week. seife: will the new branch finally be able to do dialup seife: on Modem, UMTS, you name it? jpr: seife: questions in a couple of minutes please seife: k tambet: well, that's all I had :) There's a lot of interesting features we can add right now suseROCKS: That was a heck of a thunder  :-) tambet: just not enough manpower to get them in as quickly as we'd like jpr: tambet: examples? tambet: I have half-working python bindings for NM dbus api tambet: these could be used to easily write a CLI to NM captain_magnus: Profiles and multiple active devices sure is going to be a welcome addition tambet: also, to write a testing framework tambet: then, there's connection editor. it's supposed to be what yast has right now: tambet: define new connections with certain ip/dhcp, etc mhutch|gone is now known as mhutch tambet: the framework for that is done (by rodrigo) hschaa: I want a connection editor in KNM too, but did not have the time yet :( tambet: it just needs to be finished ivanz: fantastic :) jpr: ok, great rodrigo: tambet: oh, still not finished? I hope I could get some time to work on it :) jpr: i think everyone is dying to ask questions tambet: I have lots more tasks if anyone's interested rodrigo: tambet: what is it missing?

Started at --> 06-25:08 PM jpr: so ask your questions :-) jpr: (now) captain_magnus: realjoe: With the release of openSUSE, wireless stopped working on quite a few laptops (Thinkpads). Was that by decision (thanks to new additions in the kernel) or just that something that went wrong? tambet: rodrigo: I don't think anyone has touched it since you committed it rodrigo: oh munki1: tambet: i remember back in 10.2, there was a problem with using 2 Ethernet cards at the same time, NM could only handle ONE wired ethernet card at one time, has this been worked on? tambet: munki1: yes, that's what I meant when I talked about multiple active connections munki1: awesome! :) mw: tambet: right now, i connect to a vpn w/ networkmanager, and it overwrites my /etc/resolv.conf (which breaks my local network, of course). what'll i be able to do to avoid that in the future (that's different from what i have now: a script that rewrites it for me)? wberrie1: tambet: It's true? nm is getting static ip network setup, as well as connection sharing? seife: will the new branch finally be able to do dialup? jpr: tambet: does this give is the feature where wireless can try to be brought up and only switched from wired if it succeeds? tambet: mw: it's just a bug :) mw: tambet: is it really? captain_magnus: hschaa: Are you working closely with upstream NM for KNM (/SOLID)? mw: whose bug? tambet: wberrie1: yes, most of it already works hschaa: yes, I use the current NM svn-version for KNM development tambet: mw: NM should add name servers instead of replacing existing realjoe: captain_magnus: no, it was no decision to break WLAN support. There are some problems with Intel 3945 devices. hschaa: captain_magnus: sometimes I have some patches for NM too :) mw: aahh captain_magnus: realjoe: Ok, thanks captain_magnus: hschaa: Cool tambet: seife: I'm working on it right now. There's a serial device abstraction that is currently used for UMTS/GPRS cards and that's the first priority wberrie1: tabmet/mw: maybe an option to override nameservers or not seife: cool mw: my meta question is will people with complex networking setups love or hate you? :) psp250: Is your current work on NM 0.7 available in SVN for testing? tambet: jpr: It should give us everything needed to implement this feature :) munki1: tambet: are there any plans to make sharing internet connections an easier task? jpr: ok jpr: (2 more minutes of NM Q&A) tambet: psp250: I hope to get NM 0.7 to factory tomorrow/early next week captain_magnus: realjoe: A while back in the news, it was said that some company donated their wireless stack to the kernel (ie made it GPL). Is that the new wireless stack you were talking about? hschaa: captain_magnus: yes it is :) captain_magnus: Awesome! suseROCKS: Who was the company? hschaa: it was called d80211 and renamed to mac80211 now tambet: mw: as wberrer1 said, we should have the ability to both replace and add. We already have that abilitiy for static IP information realjoe: suseROCKS: Device Scape mw: neat jpr: (1 more minute of NM Q&A) psp250: tambet: is that equivalent to upstream or an openSUSE specific branch/fork? captain_magnus: tambet: Quick question... How come that Fedora8 could impelemt the profile stuff already? Are they using a pre-release of .7 or did they backport? tambet: psp250: to tell you the truth, I already have 0.7 packages in my home directory, and there's zero patches to the latest SVN checkout tambet: captain_magnus: fedora just has what SVN has - what we'll have soon too tambet: NM 0.7 is not released yet tambet: and probably won't be for some time hschaa: tambet: how stable is the NM-API now? tambet: because we'd like to have stable API for it munki1: hschaa: what's with name "mac80211", does it have anything to do with mac IP's? tambet: hschaa: heh, exactly :)

Started at --> 06:34:58 PM jpr: a big thank you to tambet, realjoe, hschaa for their participation today (maybe they will be able to stick around for more conversation after the meeting, hint hint) hschaa: not sure why it is called "mac80211", realjoe? tambet: hschaa: it's as good as we can think of right now. There isn't anything me or Dan know we're going to break right now tambet: hschaa: but no guarantees :) realjoe: munki1: no, it's probably because it's a softmac implementation hschaa: tambet: that's good :) jpr: no mtgordon today jpr: so i'll give a quick update captain_magnus: realjoe: hschaa: tambet: Thanks for playing... Feel free to come back here :-) jpr: another good bug squash day yesterday despite late notice, with one more squash we can probably clean up all remaining 10.2 and 10.1 and 10.0 bugs jpr: i presume mtgordon will go ahead and schedule that

Started at --> 06:36:59 PM jpr: federico1, rodrigo ? federico1: sure rodrigo: I have started categorizing 11.0 bugs, and federico is going on with 10.3 federico1: go rodrigo go! rodrigo: federico1: nothing more to add , go you :) federico1: 10.3 is a little less than 50% done federico1: but you people keep filing bugs all the time! :) rodrigo: :) federico1: the bug cagetories are pretty much settled by now... we have: suseROCKS: Hey I stopped filing bugs to make your life easier!  ;-) federico1: - gnome-function-does-not-work (when you do something and it doesn't work) federico1: - gnome-wrong-out-of-the-box (you notice something wrong, but it doesn't keep you from working) federico1: - gnome-showstopper (pretty much nothing works) federico1: - gnome-crash ('cause they are particularly violent) federico1: - gnome-usability federico1: - gnome-accessibility federico1: - gnome-performance federico1: the idea is that we'll work first on things that prevent people from getting work done, i.e. the worst of gnome-function-does-not-work or gnome-showstopper federico1: then, all the rest federico1: we can of course fix really bad bugs first for each category; it's not super-strict federico1: I haven't really checked the status of bugs with votes... maybe rodrigo knows? rodrigo: not much, still not many votes rodrigo: haven't checked in the last few days though *rodrigo checks now *jpr inserts himself into the conversation jpr: i would suggest that as a matter of policy moving forward captain_magnus: federico1: Any plans to try to have some sort of "love" (ie what GNOME have upstream that helps involve new hackers in fixing "easy" bugs) jpr: we shoot for a zero gnome-showstopper policy on 11.0 rodrigo: jpr: that should be the goal, yes jpr: we will always have a feature/bug balance jpr: but that seems to be an obvious step to take immediately rodrigo: jpr: and even I'd add gnome-function-does-not-work jpr: for 11.0 jpr: as we want testing to occur munkii: we need to make a 10.3 bug squash day, before we start evaluating situation, there's still alot of garbage out there federico1: captain_magnus: that's a good idea... we don't have that in the plan yet rodrigo: we could have an easy_fix keyword federico1: rodrigo/jpr: yeah, no showstoppers and gnome-functin-does-not-work sounds pretty good, and it would have a good effect on our quality captain_magnus: Something to think about at leat... jpr: i'm no in favor of gnome-f-d-n-w quite yet federico1: one thing I want to do after the bugs are categorized is to really take a look at their severities/priorities jpr: but adding it in 4-6 weeks rodrigo: jpr: I guess we'll check for severity in g-f-d-n-w jpr: after upgrades to compiz, pulseaudio, etc federico1: i.e. "file/print in inkscape does not work" sounds more important than "crash when burning a multi-session CD" suseROCKS: Just to verify, you could add multiple categories to a bug, correct? SUSEhelp suseROCKS rodrigo: suseROCKS: yes captain_magnus: suseROCKS: Yes federico1: suseROCKS: yeah, we have that right now federico1: oh, also: munkii: categorising bugs in showstoppers or f-d-n-w, takes more than just using search argument, me thinks munkii: i suggest doing a bug squash day first federico1: we are going to have Bug Topic days/weeks, where we fix most bugs around the same topic: xinerama issues, photo manipulation, main-menu, etc. munkii: just what i think, take it or leave it jpr: munki: that will help focus, yes captain_magnus: federico1: Sounds great federico1: munkii: yeah, you really have to read through each bug and think about it. That's why the bug categorization has been going slowly :) it's a nice therapeutic thing I do when I get stuck fixing something else... jpr: (VOLUNTEERS NEEDED!) captain_magnus: Hehe captain_magnus: jpr: Is it on the task list? :-) jpr: it should be munkii: i'm in, starting Sat next week :) jpr: AI: add bug plan categorization to task list jpr: rodrigo, federico1 anything else?> rodrigo: it already else in the tasks list rodrigo: " Categorize all the bugs and add 11.0 categories " jpr: ok federico1: jpr: nothing so far rodrigo: nothing more from me jpr: two questions to get consensus on - showstopper zero tolerance in opensuse 11.0 and g-f-d-n-w tolerance in openSUSE 11.0 before we close jpr: done separately please jpr: showstopper zero tolerance? jpr: +1 captain_magnus: +1 rodrigo: +1 suseROCKS: +1 jpr: any dissenting? federico1: jpr: +1 munkii: +1 for me federico1: oh, btw jpr: we can't unring the 10.3 bell, but we can stay on top of new problems jpr: done federico1: I added gnome-showstopper to some bugs which seemed horrible to me, but which are definitely not "nothing works" jpr: AI: write down showstopper tolerance policy jpr: federico1: maybe they are more critical g-f-d-n-w? jpr: showstopper should be fairly rigourous imho hpj: i imagine showstopper would be stuff like "no a11y" federico1: jpr: yeah, very probably. I'll revise them and remove the category if appropriate federico1: hpj: definitely jpr: and next question g-f-d-n-w zero tolerance - now, later, partial based on severity dliang: zero or g-f-d-n-w tolerance is not set by customers' requirement but depends on the bug, right? jpr: +1 partial (crit/blocker) captain_magnus: 0 (ie, neutral - We need to release at some point and there will always be issues) rodrigo: +1 for now, leaving low severity ones apart hpj: i'm on the fence mw: +0 sreeves: -1 ( I'm for no policy on these - case by case basis) federico1: jpr: +1 on major and above hpj: i'd like to see how descriptive the g-f-d-n-w tag is first jpr: table it then for another week? federico1: dliang: yeah, it depends on the bug captain_magnus: Yep hpj: i.e. how well it separates bugs we must fix from bugs we don't necessarily need to fix munkii: +1, because i really care about quality federico1: hpj: I want it to mean, "the user takes direct action, but the thing doesn't work" - we can then set the severity to mean what you say *jpr puts on benevolent dictator hat jpr: we'll table for next week federico1: hpj: but I think functions that the user invokes that doesn't work are by definition garbage that we ship :) jpr: and look more at what types of things are in this category hpj: federico1: like when you press a button and nothing happens, i get it federico1: hpj: yeah, like that jpr: ok jpr: next agenda item hpj: federico1: i wonder though - imagine that when you print, about 2cm of the output is off the page (left side) federico1: hpj: that's the distinction between g-f-d-n-w and gnome-wrong-out-of-the-box. The latter is e.g. "main menu shows my hard drive space incorrectly" hpj: federico1: is that f-d-n-w or w-o-o-t-b? federico1: hpj: f-d-n-w captain_magnus: Haha jpr: AI: captain_magnus to update acronym page rodrigo: :) jpr: NEXT TOPIC

Started at --> 06:36:59 PM hpj: federico1: ok. i think we'll get a lot of f-d-n-w that way jpr: btimothy: take it away btimothy: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Tasks *hpj shuts his gob btimothy: everyone pull that up on their screen! ;) btimothy: thanks to captain_magnus, we now have some color to look at btimothy: we've rearranged the page, archived some tasks, etc. suseROCKS: Puuurrty! munkii: jpr: count me in on the "update acronym page" task too btimothy: if your name's on here, you should have already updated an ETA or moved your tasks around to the proper location jpr: captain_magnus: ^^ see munkii btimothy: since this is a wiki, if you ever notice something's been done, double-check with the task owner, but feel free to clean-up and keep the page tidy captain_magnus: " Tasks For Everyone"/Update the Acronyms page jpr: can we add a description of the colors? jpr: just to be a little pedantic captain_magnus: jpr: Is the text not enough? btimothy: jpr: colors are already described in the text captain_magnus: Different text in each color btimothy: no mtgordon today i guess ... jpr: hah jpr: outdated page munkii: i updated my ETA to Nov 30th last night, will probably be done long before that =) btimothy: we have 4 items overdue jpr: reload fixes :-) btimothy: mw, riggwelter, sbrabec, mtgordon btimothy: if you're in the red zone, please revisit the task and adjust the status & ETA accordingly mw: yeah yeah yeah btimothy: mw: ? munkii: " Organize bug squashing" i think this item is done *captain_magnus thinks that perhaps "Tasks That Are Assigned But Have No ETA" should be before ""Tasks That Are On Track? btimothy: captain_magnus: i like it like it is captain_magnus: btimothy: You're the boss :-) *hpj imagines mw throwing his hand out costanza style btimothy: jpr, federico1, rodrigo, munkii (already said), captain_magnus, me .... still on track for green tasks? mw: festivus is still over a month out, so not yet jpr: yes rodrigo: captain_magnus, btimothy: what about using the colors also for the task description? federico1: btimothy: yeah... I sneakily changed our ETA yesterday :) captain_magnus: btimothy: We don't know... Depends on what happens with fate! captain_magnus: rodrigo: We tried that but it was to intrucive btimothy: federico1: it's okay to change eta ... just so long as we all know where things are at captain_magnus: intrusive... btimothy: we have too many things with no ETA rodrigo: captain_magnus: or one of the small columns then? it marks better what's in each category btimothy: mw, hpj, jpr, captain_magnus, btimothy, suseROCKS .... ? captain_magnus: rodrigo: Problem with that is that it requires a lot of work to add/delete/modify a task :-( rodrigo: ah :( jpr: btimothy: i said yes on track :-) btimothy: jpr: right, for green jpr: this is not critique the wiki page time people :-) *mw will update jpr: this is review of the actual tasks :-) btimothy: jpr: any task you think we should call out specifically? munkii: i'm deleting item "Organize bug squashing", since we already set a regular weekly event for that, any objections? btimothy: munkii: good plan! suseROCKS: I'm a little late getting started on searching for a11y bugs to tag... but I have a couple bookmarked for further review jpr: btimothy: not that you haven't already covered btimothy: suseROCKS: will you update your item? suseROCKS: yes sir btimothy: suseROCKS: thanks :) captain_magnus: munki_: Add it to ongoing hpj: btimothy: the "write the Code page" task, that's the one you created after i went to catch the plane back from boston, right? munkii: captain_magnus: ok hpj: btimothy: i think the task we talked about was actually something else btimothy: hpj: yeah, we did hpj: btimothy: namely, a who-to-bug page btimothy: hpj: yup, that's the one hpj: btimothy: so i'll just change the task to reflect that btimothy: hpj: thank you! hpj: btimothy: and get an ETA btimothy: btw,if you have something assigned to you that you're just not gonna get to, please release it from the assigned area btimothy: i.e., move it back to the top of the page btimothy: so that someone else could possible get going on it mw: aha, now i know what to do captain_magnus: mw: Your tasks? :-) *federico1 wishes we had Hula + Evo for all this jpr: ok btimothy: captain_magnus and i started looking for an alternative thing, it's still on our TODO jpr: lets wrap this up jpr: btimothy: anything else? btimothy: jpr: sorry, nothing much to say specifically btimothy: jpr: just need everyone's updates btimothy: and participation *btimothy is done

Started at --> 06:36:59 PM jpr: Q&A sreeves: tambet: I try to connect to a random wireless AP and can't, or do connect but get dropped. jpr: any non-dev Q&A suseROCKS: ooh ooh I have a q sreeves: tambet: pointers on where to look for debug info, turn on more, ... jpr: (just ask, never ask to ask) captain_magnus: Q: jpr: Are you in a hurry today or you're just trying to keep to the schedule? :-) hschaa: sreeves: /var/log/NetworkManager jpr: hschaa, tambet : maybe we need a http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs:NetworkManager ? suseROCKS: Federico... Some of us have only just read about the new Board of Dirs for openSuse from outside sources. What does it mean for us and how will your membership benefit us here in this team/community? captain_magnus: Wow! That's a big question :-) tambet: sreeves: dropping and not connecting are usually driver issues federico1: suseROCKS: good question suseROCKS: and I edited it down!  :-) jpr: captain_magnus: trying to keep somewhat of a schedule tambet: sreeves: with the new wpa_supplicant (in factory soon), you can send sigusr1 to it to change it's debug level federico1: suseROCKS: I want to pipe good ideas coming out of the GNOME to the rest of the distro. For example, they were interested in our bug plan. tambet: sreeves: also, there's a flag to redirect all that debug spew to a file federico1: s/GNOME/GNOME team *captain_magnus is thinking of trying to change the Tasks Table as rodrigo suggested with the left most column in the same color..... tambet: sreeves: (I'm talkin about wpa_supplicant cause that's what NM uses to talk with wireless devices). mw: federico1: does the board take any technical decisions? federico1: mw: no captain_magnus: rodrigo: I will send an email to the opensuse-wiki ML and see if they can help out... federico1: mw: but that's the same myth as in the GNOME Foundation Board, since we *are* the hackers anyway :) rodrigo: captain_magnus: ok suseROCKS: Does having this board lend more freedom or flexibility to the openSuse project? mw: federico1: i never heard that you did or didn't, and that's why i asked. not trying to propagate any lies ;) captain_magnus: federico1: How does the board communicate and how often? hschaa: jpr: good ide hschaa: s/ide/idea munkii: federico1: how far are we willing to get away from novell's distro, do we get less code from Novell now? federico1: suseROCKS: the thing about the Board is to ensure that things which nobody else in opensuse wants to do, get done --- contacting conferences, sponsoring people, dealing with merchandise, etc. federico1: captain_magnus: that's still under discussion. I've been informally acting as secretary; I do intend to publish our minutes soon. captain_magnus: federico1: Hehe... You girl!! *federico1 wiggles his ass at captain_magnus suseROCKS: munkii: if I read the article correctly, Novell still maintains some level of control by selecting the Board chair. I think Novell's still highly invested in openSuse captain_magnus: munkii: Huh? Why would you want to have less code from "Novell"? captain_magnus: munkii: All of the payed openSUSE GNOME people are Novell... federico1: munkii: that's a good question. I don't think we get less code, but rather, we have to find a way to make the divergence not be a pain in the ass munkii: captain_magnus: i don't "want to have less code from novell" i'm just worried federico1: munkii: but that's more of a technical thing, so the board won't be involved too much, I hope suseROCKS: If I wasn't already losing my sight, I'd blame it now on seeing Federico's wiggling behind! jpr: any other questions? captain_magnus: munkii: Looking at what jpr and his team have done with these meetings here, and the outcome, I would not be worried... I would be excited! suseROCKS: I agree with Cappy... I've only been playing here for a month or so, but I see strong leadership from jpr munkii: captain_magnus: true, but had to make sure :) jpr: ok, as much as i like having my ego stroked jpr: time to move on :-) munkii: yep

Started at --> 07:17:15 PM suseROCKS: hpj are you still here? Tried to send you a pm, but apparently freenode says I need to be a registered user first. captain_magnus: jpr: Dayi? captain_magnus: :-) jpr: mw: i'll skip the policy thing, i think thats mostly done hpj: suseROCKS: yep munkii: suseROCKS: hehe, welcome to my world jpr: mw: and go right into wishlist/package day suseROCKS: hpj can you pm me after the meeting? jpr: mw: you always get my curve balls hpj: suseROCKS: sure *captain_magnus can't stop looking at the tasks page... mw: ok mw: so yesterday i sat in the kde meeting and brought up the possibility of doing a joint packaging workshop day with them mw: this would serve two purposes: mw: first - to pick away at our respective wishlists mw: second - to give people who've not done packaging but would like to a good chance to get started mw: we haven't formally announced it yet, but probably will tomorrow mw: we're thinking of Nov 30 - Dec 1 captain_magnus: mw: You have :-) mw: captain_magnus: well.... yeah, i guess mw: announcements will link to http://en.opensuse.org/Packaging/Packaging_Day mw: so watch that page. it may change a little bit, although probably not a lot munkii: mw, what about the ML? munkii: why don't you announce it there as well? mw: munkii: it will be announced on several mailing lists munkii: ah, good :) mw: munkii: it'll also show up on news.opensuse.org, my blog, probably other people's blogs too mw: full page ad in the new york times, superbowl halftime, etc jpr: haha munkii: yea, keep the people informed suseROCKS: any celebrity spokespersons? mw: the focus may be for kde and gnome packages, but i wouldn't want to discourage people who wish to package things unrelated to either project to show up suseROCKS: to be clear, you're saying this is a day when people can learn HOW to package? mw: yes suseROCKS: cool mw: knowing how to compile (./configure; make; make install) is a useful prerequisite, although i don't think we'll turn anyone away, even if he doesn't know how to do that jpr: and reading the gnome/kde packaging pages before hand as well :-) suseROCKS: I at least know that one  :-) jpr: mw: anything else to add? mw: i think that's it. mw: oh, i do wonder how many people are interested captain_magnus: I am suseROCKS: I'm interested, but I'm supposed to have remodelers at the house that weekend so we'll see if I can sneak away munkii: i can't wait jpr: ok - mw: would you like to discuss G:U usage or leave that until next week? suseROCKS: So if I can't show up for packaging day, I'll be at "unpackaging buidling materials day" mw: jpr: i think we should wait till next week jpr: ok

Started at --> 07:28:25 PM jpr: just a few small updates after last week munkii: so what's new? jpr: btimothy and sreeves are implementing a zypp backend for packagekit jpr: so we are off and running there federico1: w00t jpr: federico1: how is intlclock coming? federico1: that will be nice federico1: jpr: I'm discussing how to integrate things with vincent, calvin, and matthias jpr: ok, but that conversation has started jpr: good federico1: jpr: so today I'll look at what various patches are available, and hope that git figures out the merging ;) munkii: any comments on this --> http://live.gnome.org/RoadMap jpr: rodrigo, psp250 cyberorg anything on pulseaudio? rodrigo: I am preparing the plan of action based on the page you wrote rodrigo: will poke psp250 and cyberorg tomorrow jpr: munkii: q&a in a couple minutes jpr: ok federico1: there are various little details - intlclock requires libgweather, which is in gnome-applets, so we'd get a circular dependency between gnome-panel and gnome-applets (easy to pull out libgweather); we need d-bus 1.2, etc. jpr: hpj, suseROCKS : anything to report on a11y? jpr: federico1: factory baby, factory! munkii: ok, i can wait =) hpj: well, the "no a11y" bug in 10.3 is fixed suseROCKS: I've started making a list of things to assess... I want to do a fresh install of 10.3 before I formalize any testing because I've done too many things to my current box hpj: and the fix is also in factory federico1: hpj: w00 jpr: federico1, captain_magnus, sreeves : lots of good planning and measuring for main menu and app browser i see federico1: oh, yeah federico1: captain_magnus has been kicking ass with some main-menu profiles federico1: we'll make this baby fast fast fast jpr: hpj, suseROCKS : ok we'll call it planning for the next stage at this point? captain_magnus: jpr: I have no say in anything but am really interesred in heloing out if sreeves don't mind hpj: jpr: yeah suseROCKS: jpr yes planning is a good word for it jpr: ok sreeves: captain_magnus: like the help actually jpr: everyone remember to use opensuse-gnome@ to get feedback jpr: and send links to test packages

Started at --> 07:33:28 PM jpr: munkii: nothing really to say on that federico1: sreeves: btw, I forgot to CC you on https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=341831 - want to jump in? :) jpr: munkii: integration of the new gdm is a big thing we are going to have to watch carefully bugbot: openSUSE bug 341831 in openSUSE 10.3 (GNOME) "Tracker bug for gnome-main-menu" [Normal,New] munkii: jpr: which release we will most likely see in 11.0? jpr: oh jpr: 2.22.1 probably jpr: maybe 2.22.2 munkii: cool! jpr: definitely 2.22.0

jpr: any other questions? jpr: we are done like dinner! Meeting Ended at --> 07:36:10 PM