Education/Meetings/Education Meeting 2009-04-23/transcript

<SLEducator> So first topic is : <SLEducator> Status <SLEducator> How are the bugs processing? <SLEducator> is anyone there?

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<nubae> just quietly paying attention :-) <SLEducator> I'm sorry I don't know how to manage the channel <SLEducator> I am not able yet to do the things with chanserv that Lars usually does <SLEducator> I don't even seem to get the permission any longer so <SLEducator> Does anyone have a Bug Issue? <cyberorg> status and bugs lars would be better person to comment, as far as i know we are quite close <SLEducator> Next Topic within Status is; <SLEducator> Branding <SLEducator> How is our branding work proceeding <cyberorg> The_Code's territory :) <SLEducator> have we decided on the Artwork?

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<SLEducator> What is our official bootsplash <SLEducator> ?

• cyberorg has changed the topic to: Welcome to openSUSE-Education meeting : Current topic: Branding status | http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Meetings/Current

<The_Code> after the mail from lars i think we should decide what we want to brand <SLEducator> TY Cyberorg! <The_Code> i have a bootsplash package almost ready for testing / integrating in live DVD <SLEducator> What items to Brand: <SLEducator> bootsplash <SLEducator> and? <The_Code> gdm? <cyberorg> we discussed just before the meeting that bootsplash, gdm, wallpaper with minimal -edu branding, may be just our colorful logo <SLEducator> Good it's in the meeting transcript <nubae> is there a link to the corporate id? <cyberorg> we leave most opensuse branding as it is, otherwise it becomes too much work to brand <cyberorg> as we are allowed to use openSUSE name and trademark officially we dont have to replace it everywhere <cyberorg> we == opensuse-education project <cyberorg> The_Code, anything to add? <The_Code> no, not really, maybe one thing <The_Code> if there is any "artist" out there <The_Code> please help with the "creative" work, as i am a technical guy and not so much an artist <nubae> so we should send ideas/creative content your way? <The_Code> and i hope to have bootsplash and gdm branding package available tomorrow <The_Code> nubae, yes! <nubae> cool, I have a wallpaper that u might like... I'll send it <The_Code> wallpaper, icons, bootsplash images etc. everything <cyberorg> nubae, create new wiki page, lets get as much artwork gathered there <nubae> where exactly? <cyberorg> http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Branding/Ideas <nubae> ok <cyberorg> finally selected ones we can put on http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Branding <SLEducator> cyberorg isirght <SLEducator> is right <nubae> is it possible to upload images to the wiki? <The_Code> nubae, yes <cyberorg> nubae, yes, see other pages :) <The_Code> nubae, for our logo you can find an svg here: https://forgesvn1.novell.com/svn/education/trunk/artwork/ <nubae> I get u can embed them, but where does one upload? <The_Code> nubae, http://en.opensuse.org/Special:Upload <nubae> ah, thanks <The_Code> SLEducator, so much branding from my side <SLEducator> Good, <The_Code> maybe donb17 has some info on kde branding <SLEducator> Status: Live Media? <cyberorg> we have live DVD with everything but kitchen sink in it, everything that is required for education <SLEducator> Cyberorg? I haven't checked in a while <cyberorg> WIP http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Live <cyberorg> we are filling up this page at the moment <donb17> I'm still working on kde branding <SLEducator> I took the disk to POSSCON and it was loved ! even by the RedHat guys ;) <cyberorg> highlights are tons of EDU apps, KIWI-LTSP preconfigured to run directly from live DVD, Sugar, LAMP, development apps, compilers, kernel source <nubae> one thing that makes it difficult to try out different window managers is that u need to login as a different user, linux1 for example, which isnt immediately apparent <cyberorg> DVD is updated almost on the daily basis with many fixes going in, we want to get it perfect :) <cyberorg> installing from live DVD is very easy, teacher/student get most uptodate 11.1 with everything they need, it plays Windows Media out of box(legally)

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<cyberorg> everyone please try it and report if you need anything more in it or find any bugs

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<cyberorg> that's about it on live media <nubae> cyberorg: did u get my message about different window managers being difficult to try? <SLEducator> Cyberorg, do moodle or any other server apps run or install from live dvd? <cyberorg> SLEducator, we have LAMP on the DVD so any server app can be installed later easily <SLEducator> can we put the code for moodle and opensis and openbiblio there without preconfiguring anything, just have the files in place? <cyberorg> i guess it would be possible to add those <nubae> I also suggest adding koda and mahara to the list of edu server apps <cyberorg> may be we can create another DVD just for server? <SLEducator> what is koda? <nubae> library management system <nubae> especially useful for schools <SLEducator> I was thinking that that the live dvd you have could be used to build a small school with no internet <SLEducator> the programs I have chosen are all very simple AMP programs that share a common programming skillset <SLEducator> adding requirements for perl or ruby or xxxx causes issues in rural areas <nubae> sure, mahara and koda are both php based, like moodle <SLEducator> where ltsp is most receptive to under 30 clients it make a nice isolated classroom server <nubae> totally <SLEducator> openbiblio is library management <SLEducator> it is small and easy <nubae> ah ok, then no need for koda <nubae> mahara is a portfolio system that plugins into moodle and others via xmlrpc <SLEducator> moodle has an e-portfolio plugin <cyberorg> we can discuss the wishlist in http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Talk:Live ? <SLEducator> yes <nubae> yeah but its not very good <nubae> mahara is really cool, and can be standalone <nubae> where people may not want all of moodle <SLEducator> Moodle is basis for most "artifacts" <cyberorg> ok, lets move on, i expect everyone to test the DVD and atleast file 1 enhancement request and report 1 bug, they'll get 1 edukarma point for each <SLEducator> using moodle with pluggin with openSIS with openbiblio makes for an entire school <nubae> sure mahara fits in that scenario too :-) <SLEducator> :) <nubae> plugins in entirely to moodle via xmlrpc, u should check it out <SLEducator> next topic: <SLEducator> Sugar on openSUSE

• cyberorg has changed the topic to: Welcome to openSUSE-Education meeting : Current topic: sugarSUSE | http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Meetings/Current

<nubae> ah the newcomer to the block <SLEducator> Official Welcome and openHand to you

• intelliant_ is having a great learning experience thanks to all of you

<nubae> well, one thing is that it should be easier to start sugar from the dvd <nubae> right now it means logging out and then logging in as a different user <cyberorg> suseROCKs, you're next <nubae> then choosing sugar as your desktop environment <cyberorg> nubae, it can be run with sugar-emulator without logging out <SLEducator> it could be made as login choice <nubae> yeah but no one is going to run it that way... it should run not in a window <nubae> yeah somehow the main user should be able to login to sugar easily <cyberorg> those are the details we can sort out later, tell us what goodies you have got for us :) <nubae> ok ok <nubae> Well, sugar is split into 3 parts <nubae> we have glucose which is the central components <suseROCKs> cyberorg: what am I next in line for? A prize? <nubae> it contains the heart of sugar including the framework, the desktop, telepathy (collaboration framework) <cyberorg> suseROCKs, /topic ;) <suseROCKs> cyberorg: errmm... <nubae> we also have fructose, which are the main officially supported activities that are included in most distros <nubae> these right now include read, write, turtleart, chat, browse, record and etoys <nubae> glucose+fructose = sucrose <SLEducator> LOL <nubae> everything else is in honey... which contains the activities made by the community :-) <SLEducator> add a little yeast , barely and hops and we have beer! <nubae> I thought the taxonomy might be interesting to some of you :-) <nubae> starch refers to sugar as an image <nubae> so, I have packaged about 30-40 honey activities <SLEducator> what age group is this desktop best suited for? <nubae> making openSUSE the only distro to have such a fully functioning sugar environment <nubae> Sugar is based on the ability to collaborate with users in a very easy way <nubae> it is aimed at 3-15 year olds <nubae> but ideal for the younger kids <nubae> as the menu is extremely simple, and everything is iconic <SLEducator> Would it be in our interest to have the sugar desktop the default choice for parents \ educators looking to build a k-6 targeted machine <nubae> thats a good question... <nubae> It does contain some of the packages otherwise offered like gcompris and childsplay <nubae> so its certainly an idea to think about <cyberorg> we can have live usb/cd image just with sugar <SLEducator> I think from your description that it is exactly what I was trying to accomplish as age specific UI's

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<nubae> it would offer the most well rounded desktop for the really young guys <The_Code> are there any user experiences <The_Code> user=kids <nubae> well sugar is in pilot projects all over the world <cyberorg> The_Code, there are thousands of OLPC laptops running it all over the world, most seem to love it <nubae> I am in charge of a pilot project here in my country where many xos have been delivered to a pedagogical school <nubae> this is where they test new technologoies and decide toimplement in the rest of the country <SLEducator> could a sugar desktop be made an LTSP desktop choice? <The_Code> right, olpc :) <nubae> it is still very new technology, only 3 years old <nubae> SLEducator: yes! <cyberorg> SLEducator, it is available on live DVD ltsp login <nubae> this has been my main area of concentration <SLEducator> I am working with geniuses , how did I get so lucky!!!! <nubae> I really want sugar to work well via LTSP, but there are some bugs to work with <nubae> but again, openSUSE has the best implementation of sugar+ltsp available <nubae> in a large part thanks to cyberorg <nubae> ;-) <cyberorg> btw little secret is nubae if former ubuntu user, just few days back ;) <nubae> he has mentored me so far and I hope to be able to make sugar a fully functional bug free experience on openSUSE <cyberorg> s/if/is <nubae> yes, unfortunately ubuntu is not what it used to be <nubae> anyway, I see a big future for sugar, so it makes sense to seriously promote it, and try and be as cutting edge with it as possible <nubae> for sure making a sub opensuse sugar dvd/cd iso makes sense <nubae> as does a suse sugar on a stick <SLEducator> call it a lolipop LOL <nubae> lol <nubae> not a bad branding name actually <nubae> the SUSE lolipop <SLEducator> yea <nubae> sweetness for kids <SLEducator> hits the market user and describs the project roots <SLEducator> suseROCKs, are you listening :) <nubae> one last thing that should be discussed is the inclusion of honey <nubae> right now the #sugar folk aren't too happy about openSUSE carrying it <SLEducator> here comes the "honey do list" <nubae> as they want everyone to download from activities.sugarlabs.org <SLEducator> don't they like the idea of making it easier to get and use? <nubae> I think we should not only make it easy but also promote openSUSE as including the honey activities, so until there is a good way to do that non-rpm based, we should continue this direction <suseROCKs> SLEducator: Trying to  :-) <nubae> yeah, but this is kinda a fundementalist thing for them... they say that students learn by isntalling it themselves

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<nubae> and by making it an rpm, its a teacher or admin that installs it <nubae> my argument there is that kids can still be allowed to install it themselves <nubae> we just make it easier for the teacher or admin or parent too <SLEducator> students this young are rarely interested in installation routines <nubae> my arguments exactly <nubae> anyway, just thought I'd mention that there is some unhappiness with this, and that openSUSE might be cursed at a bit by the sugar devs ;-) <SLEducator> I have sat with teachers and students for 15 years as they used the technology i gave them, the first person to walk away as I installed was the student <cyberorg> SLEducator, what sugar devs say also makes sense, everything is an "activity" on sugar, including installing, it is not that difficult to install too, letting student install allows them to modify the app too <cyberorg> anyway no harm in having both ways <cyberorg> choice is good <nubae> yeah, think having both ways is the way to go <SLEducator> Choice is the rule <cyberorg> nubae, but it will be all the more maintanence work for you :) <nubae> well, just in the short run <cyberorg> unless you come up with script that does updates <nubae> in the long run, they are intending to implement changes so that the .xo bundles can be centrally managed, installed and deleted <SLEducator> could we include a one click and an install path that doesn't need root rights? <nubae> well, thats what activities.sugarlabs.org does <nubae> we dont need that extra <nubae> I will make an activities page though that lists the honey we carry and include one-click <nubae> also we have a metapackage that includes only the best honey apps <nubae> cyberorg: it might also be an idea to put a sugaremulator icon on the desktop <SLEducator> this whole program is python scripts? <nubae> so that they can quickly run and test sugar from teh dvd <nubae> yep all done in python <cyberorg> nubae, good idea <SLEducator> do they run directly from gnome? <nubae> with sugar-emulator they can <cyberorg> SLEducator, yes, boot the DVD, run sugar-emulator directly from gnome <SLEducator> set it as an app on the desktop. <nubae> but with ltsp or intalled it makes sense for them to run it as its own window manager <SLEducator> yes. <nubae> cyberorg: we should definetly do that, openSUSE will be the first to do it! ;-) <cyberorg> put that in Talk page please in case i forget <nubae> done <SLEducator> sounds like we are going to have a lock on k-6 desktops ;) <nubae> for sure <nubae> a question about launches... are there specific cycles for opensuse-edu? <cyberorg> nubae, yes, usually couple of months after openSUSE release <nubae> ok

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• cyberorg has changed the topic to: Welcome to openSUSE-Education meeting : Current topic: suseROCKs on promoting openSUSE-Edu | http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Meetings/Current

<cyberorg> suseROCKs, time to earn your edukarma points <SLEducator> topic: marketing and promotion <SLEducator> suseROCKs, ? <The_Code> cyberorg, bootsplash: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home://japa83://edu/openSUSE_11.1/

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<suseROCKs> ahh, you want to promote/boost <The_Code> only i586 currently x86_64 building <SLEducator> does anyone know if we can get a live disk printing budget? <cyberorg> The_Code, thanks, will test it out <suseROCKs> SLEducator: how many are you thinking of printing up?

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<suseROCKs> and where to distribute? <SLEducator> well this is the season for educational conferences <cyberorg> can we get some magazines interested in carrying it? <SLEducator> we should be finding people to visit these conferences world wide and take a few hundred with them to each <suseROCKs> cyberorg: do you know of magazines catering to education that include inserts?

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<cyberorg> suseROCKs, any linux mag should be our target too <SLEducator> these magazines generally look for profit in the arrangement <cyberorg> SLEducator, naah, many mags carry linux distros <SLEducator> linux mags not edu mags <suseROCKs> cyberorg: do linux mags carry specific-purpose distros like -edu? or higher level? I think only higher-level <cyberorg> school libraries have many magazines, any one should be targeted <suseROCKs> as for edu, that's the challenge as SLEducator said. They want money for it. <lifeeth> cyberorg, A mail of the dvd to schools? <cyberorg> lifeeth, needs big budget <suseROCKs> SLEducator: I guess the question is which educ media is likely to be open to talking about -edu and same goes for conferences too. <lifeeth> cyberorg, trye <lifeeth> *true <cyberorg> i'll try to contact magazines in india <nubae> here we have linux magazine, linux journal <SLEducator> this is just the state of california, http://www.cde.ca.gov/re/ca/cc/ if we can get a rep or someone to figure out what conferences are suited to have reps at ..... <nubae> linux pro <cyberorg> need zonker here <cyberorg> suseROCKs, you should at least get all board interested in what we do then sell us to the world :) <SLEducator> thinking linux mag is like selling milk to a cow farmer <suseROCKs> SLEducator: can you compile that into a list of potential conferences, who might be able to go, how many copies needed and send to board@ and zonker? Can't make any promises, but with more lead time we can have ample time to look at the feasibility of it all. <suseROCKs> cyberorg: trust me, we're interested  :-) <nubae> btw... is opensuse-edu listed in distrowatch? <cyberorg> nopes <SLEducator> nubae, not an official sub distro yet <nubae> ah that would bring lots of attention <SLEducator> suseROCKs, jsut compiling the 50 states would be a huge task. <nubae> osnews.com too <suseROCKs> we're hoping to get around to that soon enough <suseROCKs> SLEducator: compiling all isn't the way to go. Compile the ones you KNOW someone from our community is going to or can go to. <SLEducator> I am commited to building the stuff for the server side and I have my hands full <nubae> I am going to sugarcamp (15-18th May) and will promote opensuse-edu there <SLEducator> we ll I am going to SELF print a couple dozen for me at least <suseROCKs> SLEducator: I would start with conferences that are easiest to convince people. Education technical conferences, Education IT conferences, etc. <suseROCKs> Don't just cast a wide net <SLEducator> if we print some and modestly take them with us we can always get people to put there bus card or contact info on an "I want one too" list

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<SLEducator> we can go here http://www.msteched.com/teched/default.aspx?WT.srch=1&mode=1&CR_ID=-1&CR_TC=9MIUMGEXBBD0NBD <SLEducator> please send me!!!!! <suseROCKs> And no, we don't have budget for sending community yet.  :-( I had to pay out of my own pocket for my last conference in Vegas. <SLEducator> here is the national register of edtech conferences http://www.theconferencecalendar.com/ <cyberorg> suseROCKs, as for marketting can we all at least blog and tweet about it once a month at least? <SLEducator> i have begun tweeting opensuse and opensis as sleducator <cyberorg> we have a great resource for education, perhaps the best ensemble of apps for students/teachers in one neat package, lets make some noise <SLEducator> http://www.theconferencecalendar.com/ is an international resource, is there some budget for a marketing person to work with it and get us more involved? <SLEducator> simply reducing the lists to territorial areas and talking to Novell sales team would be a could start <SLEducator> could someone talk to HP Sales team <SLEducator> how about tapping lowry snow <SLEducator> the commercial prospects here are not that hard to discern <SLEducator> HP could preload and not charge any software licenses <SLEducator> convert to SLE and split into server and desktop disks , sell server as school admin appliance <SLEducator> anyway . Next topic : <SLEducator> Questions: <SLEducator> Anyone? <suseROCKs> cyberorg: "blog and tweet"... why can't you do that now? <SLEducator> I wiil blog and tweet my heart out <cyberorg> suseROCKs, check my blog: http://dev.compiz-fusion.org/~cyberorg/ <suseROCKs> SLEducator: whether novell marketing itself will get involved is a whooooole 'nother matter  :-) <SLEducator> do we have an article describing the depth of our Sugar implementation? <suseROCKs> cyberorg: ok so why are you asking if you can blog and tweet at least once a month?  :-) We don't own your ass  :-D <SLEducator> LOL <SLEducator> nubae, you still here? <cyberorg> SLEducator, suseROCKs, i would like to see edu on your blogs :) <suseROCKs> ahhh <SLEducator> still trying to get a good location for mine <suseROCKs> SLEducator: a browser would be a good location <SLEducator> Location <SLEducator> LOL <SLEducator> site <donb17> Speaking of browsers....... <donb17> What site do we want to default to? <suseROCKs> opensuse-edu doesn't have its own site, does it? <donb17> www.opensuse-education.org ? <suseROCKs> use that then <SLEducator> donb17, that site is not necessarily permanent <donb17> K, should we go with en.opensuse.org/Education ? <SLEducator> opensuse.org/education is <donb17> ya, lose the en off my previous statement <SLEducator> if for the live dvd then we could create /education/LIVE <donb17> k, sounds good <SLEducator> feel free to contribute! <SLEducator> I'm gonna work with the South Carolina OLPC group <SLEducator> Any other Business? <SLEducator> Cyberorg, who does the transcript? <cyberorg> SLEducator, lars does, but don't know if he needs it in any format, let me check <The_Code> a new background idea: http://picasaweb.google.com/thecode83/OpenSUSEEducationBranding#5327963306372504466