Started at: 2008-11-18 17:02:34 <kl_eisbaer> Hi everyone - ready for the meeting? :-) <krish> yay <The_Code_> hi kl_eisbaer <andreas__> yes <kl_eisbaer> give me just a second - I have to open my browser.... <kl_eisbaer> ok: 18:00 here - looks like we can start our Education meeting :-) <kl_eisbaer> Welcome everybody!

<kl_eisbaer> I hope everybody knows our topics on http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Meetings/Education_Meeting_2008-11-18 <krish> yep <kl_eisbaer> krish: where? <krish> kl_eisbaer: http://srikrishnadas.wordpress.com <kl_eisbaer> thanks <kl_eisbaer> anybody else who can help us make openSUSE-Education more "public" ? <kl_eisbaer> [daemon] ? suseRocks ? :-) <kl_eisbaer> and not to forget captain_magnus :-) <krish> we should probably crawl on social networking sites <kl_eisbaer> yes. <kl_eisbaer> I'm currently thinking about blogging on lizzards.opensuse.org <suseROCKs> oh shoot, meeting now  :-) <[daemon]> kl_eisbaer: sure I can ... at least I can blog how cool this is <kl_eisbaer> but we should have something to blog about befor we start <kl_eisbaer> [daemon]: nice - adding you to the list of our social network bloggers :-) <suseROCKs> You should try to schedule at least 1-2 blog posts a month about the progress etc <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: yes, I think we should first find some topics to blog about :-) <suseROCKs> confer about what topics you agree need to be pushed out each time. <kl_eisbaer> What about a "cool apps of the month" blog? <kl_eisbaer> something like showing people who to use an application in education ? <krish> podcast! <suseROCKs> do you have much awareness about who is using opensuse-edu out there? <kl_eisbaer> yes - but we need someone familar with podcasts.... <krish> or something like opensuse-edu how-to video series <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: I've posted some statistics on the mailinglist some weeks ago <suseROCKs> I personally am averse to podcasting, but for others I guess they should go as many avenues as possible. <suseROCKs> kl_eisbaer: not statistics, but rather, success stories, etc. <kl_eisbaer> ok <suseROCKs> Like "The school district of 'so-and-so county' has recently adopted -edu" that sort of thing <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: yes, but that wouldn't be so often the case, IMO <kl_eisbaer> I like to have something that can be released at least once or twice a month <suseROCKs> or "Beineri has offerred free food and drinks for all meetings in IRC"  :-) <kl_eisbaer> I think one benefit of blogs about applications is that we can use those blogs for the wiki and the documentation, too <suseROCKs> kl_eisbaer: what resources do you feel -edu needs to further itself? <kl_eisbaer> For me we miss documentation <kl_eisbaer> documentation about <kl_eisbaer> * managing a classroom full of openSUSE clients <kl_eisbaer> * single applications <kl_eisbaer> * getting help <suseROCKs> same problem everyone else has.  :-) <kl_eisbaer> yes - but only talking about the problem is not solving it :-) <kl_eisbaer> So I want to increase the documentation AND the visibility by writing blog entries about edu-apps <kl_eisbaer> but perhaps (as already seen here) others might have a differnet look at the edu project <suseROCKs> but... <suseROCKs> you want them to look at the project as a whole, not just the apps, right? <suseROCKs> Otherwise, people could say "Oooh, interesting app" and just install that app in their regular opensuse installation instead of exploring the entire project itself. <kl_eisbaer> The project as a whole is at least 80% packaging at the moment <kl_eisbaer> if we reach our next goals with providing additional software, the target might chance <kl_eisbaer> but even if people just install single apps, I think it's a "plus" for the education project :-) <suseROCKs> I think I asked this before, but don't remember the answer. Are your apps somehow tied into each other? <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: well, depends on your look <kl_eisbaer> they are tied on the repository / installation source <kl_eisbaer> but currently each apps works on it's own <kl_eisbaer> the plan is to change this in the future, but we need more man- (and coding-) power for this <suseROCKs> are there plans to try to integrate functionality somehow? or a central management interface or something or other? <kl_eisbaer> Some examples (which come into my eyes): <kl_eisbaer> * packages, which help an admin to setup a server <kl_eisbaer> for example: the current moodle package doesn't install a database - but it could <kl_eisbaer> if the user installs a separate "moodle-edu-server" package which provides all needed scripts <kl_eisbaer> * own software like the YaST Education module <kl_eisbaer> which works together with other apps like kiosktool, squidGuard, SuSEfirewall2, ... <kl_eisbaer> to allow people (parents) to secure the account of their children <suseROCKs> okay <krish> why not into Yast? <suseROCKs> that will help to sell -edu much better <krish> people may find different control centers very alarming <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: yes, and anubisg1 already has finished to create an "edu-live-cd" <kl_eisbaer> krish: I think we should split between central management (which should be provided by YaST, yes) and "helper packages" for single apps <suseROCKs> I think anubisg1's ears were ringing <anubisg1> i forgot about meeting :( started yet? <anubisg1> sorry for late <kl_eisbaer> anubisg1: welcome <anubisg1> thanks <kl_eisbaer> just mentioned your live-cd <anubisg1> oh ok.. can i? <The_Code_> kl_eisbaer, i have a patch for the edu-user yast module which i want to merge with jd <kl_eisbaer> BTW: krish - I think we also need images/labels for physical media <kl_eisbaer> The_Code_: didn't you have svn access ? <krish> kl_eisbaer: ok. noting down <The_Code_> i think so but i read something about a new svn edu repo <kl_eisbaer> The_Code_: depends on where we want to maintain the code ;-) <The_Code_> and i don't know if jd has his last version in the repo <The_Code_> ok, tell me where to put it <kl_eisbaer> The_Code_: as it's a YaST module, for me it can stay in the YaST repo <kl_eisbaer> (as I have access to that repo, too) <The_Code_> and me not <kl_eisbaer> but if we want to allow others to work on it, we should move it to the Edu-SVN <kl_eisbaer> a, ok <The_Code_> i would say move it to edu-svn <kl_eisbaer> noting as AI for me: talk to jdsn and move it to the edu-svn <The_Code_> k <kl_eisbaer> krish: http://www.opensuse-education.org/Edu-CD-black_and_white.pdf <kl_eisbaer> krish: that was the old version (initialy blue) <krish> opening <kl_eisbaer> just as inspiration - but I think we should first have the final openSUSE-Education logo <anubisg1> it can improved.. at least adding our logo <kl_eisbaer> yes <anubisg1> well.. i was late i know... so no more lost of time <krish> kl_eisbaer: hmm ok <krish> final logo hm. <anubisg1> st) openSUSE-EDU Live cd <kl_eisbaer> krish: yes, I like to have this "finished" until we start with other discussions like "Webpage layouts", "Flyer layouts", ... <krish> for te final one - do I improve on this sketch http://picasaweb.google.com/das.srikrishna/Distros#5259880196575510498 <krish> s/te/the <krish> either me or shona will work on the edu CD and logo <anubisg1> i'm betatesting susestudio http://www.susestudio.com <anubisg1> right now live cd is available for testing <anubisg1> only here: http://node11.studio.suse.com/testdrive/start?token=vNDk3grHBdWWaJD6xyBW <krish> kl_eisbaer: meet shona. She designs for a Libre software event here called mukt.in ; hmm and her latest design is for opensuse-edu italy conf I guess <kl_eisbaer> krish: looks like the sketch fits exactly on a CD :-) - just the "openSUSE Education" text should be placed inside <anubisg1> not ready yet, we had a problem with kernel... even if i choosed default one, the pae one was installed <krish> they are available on forgeftp.novell.com/education/art <kl_eisbaer> anubisg1: have you find a way to get the ISO image ? <krish> kl_eisbaer: I am glad it does <anubisg1> kl_eisbaer : sure... kde sharing file server... <anubisg1> i will download the iso, and you'll download it from me... <kl_eisbaer> anubisg1: please place it there - and I'll move it beside the other ISOs <anubisg1> http://my-ip:8001 <kl_eisbaer> yes <anubisg1> as i told, we have to fix kernel problem before <anubisg1> any way you may whant to test with qemu http://node11.studio.suse.com/testdrive/start?token=vNDk3grHBdWWaJD6xyBW <anubisg1> and report missing packages (or packages we can remove) <kl_eisbaer> krish: THAT's something worth to blog about! <anubisg1> right now iso size is 697MB <krish> hmm yeah. shona, since you drew it, would you also blog about it? <anubisg1> so, i need a logo (our is good.. the problems are colours) <anubisg1> to add on splash screens... <krish> anubisg1: which one? <anubisg1> the green of our logo is not visible with the green backgroud.. and using the backone.. wi have the same problem with shell black background <krish> anubisg1: that was fixed with white glow <krish> see on posters sftp://forgeftp.novell.com/education/art <krish> shona: could you export just the opensuse logo to suit green background? <anubisg1> yep.. i get it <krish> this reminds me. kl_eisbaer, I request you to give some svn access for shona and me to maintain the art. We almost had shona's PC crash yesterday and thought we lost the data <anubisg1> right now, that's all... about live cd... <kl_eisbaer> krish: no problem - just send me your openSUSE accounts and I'll add you to the SVN <krish> okay. after this meet <kl_eisbaer> thanks <anubisg1> please report any important missing packages and/or package we can remove <kl_eisbaer> anubisg1: if you like, just add a "Live-CD" to our bugzilla :-) <anubisg1> perfect! <anubisg1> 2nd) Status of openSUSE-EDUCATION in Brindisi QSI School <kl_eisbaer> anubisg1: yes <anubisg1> well right now, my job is "sys admin" in brindisi qsi school <anubisg1> http://www.qsi.org/ --> http://www.qsi.org/brd_home/brd_home.htm <kl_eisbaer> congrats :-) <anubisg1> thanks... <anubisg1> btw <anubisg1> tomorrow i have to show how openSUSE works into an AD domain and how Education addons can hel teachers <anubisg1> will be really easy for me, my suse laptop is into the domain and works better that win xp PCs! :P ihihih <kl_eisbaer> anubisg1: as discussed before: can you blog about this "Education success" on lizzards.o.o ? <anubisg1> any way, if they like it... 2 openSUSEs 11.0 with education addons will be installed tomorrow <anubisg1> kl_eisbaer: sure, but i was waiting tomorrow.... <anubisg1> my hope, is to move AD domain to KIWI-LTSP domain in months... <kl_eisbaer> yip, np <anubisg1> my hope, is to move AD domain to "KIWI-LTSP domain" in months... (is not a real domain you know :P ) <kl_eisbaer> anubisg1: other news from your side? <anubisg1> if i'll (we) success, i think that will be a greate way to spread words <anubisg1> kl_eisbaer : sure :P <anubisg1> d) Status of open source ECDL presentation at Milan <anubisg1> next 21 november will be present in Milan (Italy, you should know) <SLEducator> Hello all, I finally got in <anubisg1> the OPEN SOURCE ECDL project <anubisg1> SLEeducator : wellcome <krish> yup <anubisg1> thanks to Mr Carugo <anubisg1> i will not be there (not enought money to buy train ticket.. i live 1000km far) <SLEducator> Did I miss everything? <kl_eisbaer> SLEducator: no - we're inbetween <SLEducator> Thanks <anubisg1> but Mr Carugo promise me all photo we will need <krish> anubisg1: the second poster will be available on same ftp site by today <anubisg1> to write somethings <anubisg1> krish thanks... i hope they will have enought time to print it <anubisg1> any way... <anubisg1> the opensource ECDL will use openSUSE-EDU like OS <anubisg1> and openoffice like office suite <anubisg1> posters that will be used: http://www.ecdlopensource.it/Images/Poster1.pdf http://www.ecdlopensource.it/Images/Poster2.pdf <anubisg1> all news will be reported soon on lizards... <anubisg1> i should have end <anubisg1> ;) <kl_eisbaer> ok <kl_eisbaer> any other news for the "Spreading the world" topic ?

<kl_eisbaer> Otherwise we can switch to the "The new development plattform " topic <anubisg1> live cd kernel problem looks fixed... i'm downloading it.... <kl_eisbaer> I hope, every developer is now aware of our move from the SVN and bugtracker on opensuse-education.org to forge.novell.com <anubisg1> sure.. i LOVE it <SLEducator> Will this new Subversion be a place where I can move the openSIS project? <kl_eisbaer> SLEducator: yes <kl_eisbaer> http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/Education#Members <kl_eisbaer> lists the current Project members <kl_eisbaer> if I missed anyone, please contact me or one of the Administrators listed there <SLEducator> I can get my team to start working this whole thing in there or just us? <anubisg1> kl_eisbaer : i think i know ehere the problem is with bugzilla <kl_eisbaer> SLEducator: I don't think there's a problem to work there with your whole team <SLEducator> ;) <kl_eisbaer> anubisg1: ? <anubisg1> even if i should be bugzilla administrator too... i am not... that's because if i try to add myself as admin <anubisg1> it told me "anubisg1" user does not exist <kl_eisbaer> SLEducator: just tell your team that they need an openSUSE Account and tell me there account names <SLEducator> I will, thanks <anubisg1> that means, you never added me... <kl_eisbaer> hm. interesting <anubisg1> but, my nick exist you know <kl_eisbaer> yes, otherwise you won't be listed as administrator <anubisg1> exactly <anubisg1> i try to add myself here: http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/Special:ProjectAdministration <anubisg1> from here... sorry for typos <anubisg1> Failure <anubisg1> Soap Fault: Add Administrator Failure <anubisg1> userid not found <anubisg1> that's the error i receive (you can see it in the top of the page) <SLEducator> kl_eisbar: I removed Centre, it was not being developed as much as I liked and the os4ed team is comprised of energenic ex IBMers and a few others, I think we will be moving the openSIS forward rather quickly <kl_eisbaer> anubisg1: can you contact "Richard Smith" , please? <kl_eisbaer> => rlsmith@novell.com <anubisg1> sure i'll do <kl_eisbaer> SLEducator: ok - can you announce this on the mailinglist, please <SLEducator> the removal? <kl_eisbaer> SLEducator: yes <SLEducator> already announce the addition <SLEducator> i will indeed <kl_eisbaer> so people trying to using centre will be informed <kl_eisbaer> One question from the meeting page (just to get back) ;-) <kl_eisbaer> Should we migrate our "development information" to this new wiki on forge.novell ? <kl_eisbaer> currently we've http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Development <kl_eisbaer> Which has informations for users adding edu-wiki pages <kl_eisbaer> but also for developers packaging edu-apps <kl_eisbaer> we already discussed to split the information on this page <kl_eisbaer> I think now it's the chance to get a decision for the future ;-) <anubisg1> yep <kl_eisbaer> any preferences? <SLEducator> not sure of the details, are you suggesting we change the page to a link inside "forge" <anubisg1> 1st of all i think we should split out developers stuffs and users ones <kl_eisbaer> SLEducator: yes <kl_eisbaer> I think we should leave the informations (templates) for wiki writers there and move the other stuff to the forge wiki <anubisg1> and of course, we should move anythins is possible on "forge" <kl_eisbaer> anubisg1: why? <kl_eisbaer> even the application descriptions? :-) <anubisg1> develpers stuffs on "forge" <kl_eisbaer> anubisg1: ah, ok, yes <anubisg1> users and packages descriptions on en.opensuse.org <kl_eisbaer> HI jlow ! <SLEducator> OK with me <kl_eisbaer> yes, for me, too <anubisg1> fine <kl_eisbaer> Folks: welcome Lowry Snow - our man behind isv:hp:education ;-) <jlow> yes, hello everyone <SLEducator> Welcome <anubisg1> wellcome <kl_eisbaer> Lowry - thanks for your explanation of the OBS-project in the mailinglist <SLEducator> OBS project? <jlow> np; we will have expanded good news very soon, related to this topic <kl_eisbaer> cool <anubisg1> well guys. i'm sorrt but next our i'll have an exam (cisco exam about PPP and Frame Relay) so.. sorry.. i have to go... just to repeate.... i'll read all the meeting in transcription <kl_eisbaer> I've just a question about the maintainers in your project <SLEducator> the answer to question 5? <kl_eisbaer> can I add them to the Education repository, too? <jlow> yes, i think thats a good idea <kl_eisbaer> so we can work together on the packages in the Education repository to get the best packages ever? <anubisg1> well guys. i'm sorry but next hour i'll have an exam (cisco exam about PPP and Frame Relay) so.. sorry.. i have to go... just to repeate.... i'll read all the meeting in transcription <anubisg1> bye <kl_eisbaer> anubisg1: bye <andreas__> bye <SLEducator> bye anubisg1 <anubisg1> bye <kl_eisbaer> jlow: ok - I'll write a separate mail to them including a hint to our guidelines ;-) <kl_eisbaer> any other questions about our new development plattform or the Build Service ?

<kl_eisbaer> Otherwise: topic 3 : "General Roadmap discussion" <SLEducator> I'm excited to here it <kl_eisbaer> I've adapted http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Development/Edu-CD/Roadmap <kl_eisbaer> and Beta1 for 11.1 is already available ;-) <kl_eisbaer> even RC1 for SLE10 <kl_eisbaer> I've tighten the timeline a bit, so we can hopefully "finsh" openSUSE-Education 1.0 for ALL available distributions THIS YEAR <kl_eisbaer> including 11.1 <kl_eisbaer> The problem I see: we need testers for the 11.1 release <kl_eisbaer> ...and even for the SLE10 release <[daemon]> one can bribe me with steak and beer :) <kl_eisbaer> any objections against the roadmap ? <kl_eisbaer> [daemon]: wrong list ;-) <SLEducator> I already building a SLED 10 box just for that <kl_eisbaer> SLEducator: thansk <[daemon]> kl_eisbaer: testing for free ... I have to think about that :) <kl_eisbaer> http://devzilla.novell.com/education/ awaits your reports :-) <kl_eisbaer> ok: so the final release date for SLE10 is 14/12/2008 <kl_eisbaer> and for 11.1 20/12/2008 <SLEducator> wow <krish> ! <kl_eisbaer> so we can start with 2.0 in the next year :-) <krish> pretty close <kl_eisbaer> or an intermediate release just containing updated packages <kl_eisbaer> well: currently the main problem is to get the packages build for 11.1 and SLE10 - all other "Tasks" to build the ISOs are more or less scripted <kl_eisbaer> ...and FYI: I've already added a "product-config" in the OBS, so we can start to get our ISOs automatically via the Buildservice as soon as this feature is official available :-) <SLEducator> I think I have openSIS building correctly, I don't seem to be able to get a factory to complete <kl_eisbaer> SLEducator: just ping me if you've problem <kl_eisbaer> s <kl_eisbaer> :D <SLEducator> OKI

<kl_eisbaer> next topic: "Old action items" <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: news from your side? <kl_eisbaer> ok - next in the list: kkirill ... :-) <kl_eisbaer> what's the status of the rework of the wiki pages ? <kkirill> first of all hi to all and sorry for my lating :( <kkirill> you can see this page for updated version http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Applications/Desktop_Temp <kkirill> I want to implement these categories http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/menu-spec-latest.html instead of RPM ones <kl_eisbaer> cool ! <kkirill> to make it easy to find program in the menu :) <kl_eisbaer> ok <kl_eisbaer> what about bibletime, gnomesword, ... ? <kkirill> but we have collision in our http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Wiki <kl_eisbaer> ? <kkirill> from one side it rpm -q --qf "%{GROUP}\n" <packagename> <kkirill> from other "We decide to follow the [Freedesktop.org Standards]" <kkirill> but they are totally different <kkirill> so, I suggest to use always [Freedesktop.org Standards] for menu items, but I don't now whether is possible to use the same categories in RPM <kl_eisbaer> for rpm categories: no <kl_eisbaer> see http://en.opensuse.org/SUSE_Package_Conventions/RPM_Groups <kkirill> for now we have one for rpm category, second for menu, and third for description in wiki, can we simpify this? <kl_eisbaer> perhaps we can start a discussion on opensuse-packagers@opensuse.org

- but I don't think that this policy will change

<kl_eisbaer> kkirill: yes <kl_eisbaer> what about ignoring the RPM category in the wiki ? <kl_eisbaer> ...if this makes our lives easier .... <kkirill> my propospal is to use in wiki the same categories as in the menu and ignoring RMP ones (removing this: <kkirill> Category:<RPM-GROUP> => Use the RPM group of the package, so we get it sorted under its normal Category. Use ":" instead of the "/" in the RPM group field. To find out the RPM group of an already installed rpm via commandline, just enter the command <kl_eisbaer> ok - fine with me <kkirill> > what about bibletime, gnomesword, ... ? <kkirill> I've composed a list of application which categoreis isn't defined yet <kl_eisbaer> kkirill: so can you adapt the Education/Wiki page please? <kkirill> also I've composed a list of dropped packages, which were present in old wiki <kl_eisbaer> ok <kkirill> I'll post both of the in mailing list <kl_eisbaer> perhaps we should list the dropped packages in their "normal" group - but just add a "dropped" icon ? <kl_eisbaer> inlcuding the distribution version when they are dropped ? <kl_eisbaer> like a crossed 10.3 or something like that <kkirill> I don't have such information, only is it availible now <kl_eisbaer> hm, ok <kl_eisbaer> so send your lists to the mailinglist, I'll see what I can do ;-) <kkirill> ok, and decide where to place not yet defined apps <kl_eisbaer> yes - that would be interesting ;-) <SLEducator> kl_eisbaer: what are the goals for this page? http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Applications/Desktop <kl_eisbaer> should also be discussed on the mailinglist IMO <kkirill> also you've promised to find icons for representing ages <kl_eisbaer> SLEducator: to be replaced by the new page from kkirill <SLEducator> good <kl_eisbaer> yes, I know... :-/ <kkirill> kl_eisbaer: I'll finish this page today, for now it's not ready yet, sorry <SLEducator> I have been having a hard time getting to install them all and look at what age group they belong <kl_eisbaer> kkirill: np - I've also enough tasks which will never be finished ;-) <kkirill> SLEducator: but I find it with out any problem in the menu after it would be installed (if desktop file has the same category) <kl_eisbaer> SLEducator: if you can provide some informations about your proposed age group: just add your notes behind kkirills mail on the mailinglist, I think <kkirill> would be cool to have one_click install for each app <kl_eisbaer> kkirill: nice idea :-) <SLEducator> kl_eisbaer: is it possible to have a VM we can connect to with tsclient or something? like a demo? <kl_eisbaer> SLEducator: yes - should be possible <kl_eisbaer> but not this week :-) <SLEducator> LOL <kl_eisbaer> which distribution do you want to have installed on such a machine ? <kl_eisbaer> 11.1 ? <SLEducator> well, we test for opensuse first then SLE , so 11.1 would be good <kl_eisbaer> ok - taking this as AI <SLEducator> cool <kl_eisbaer> ok - any questions for/from kkirill ? <SLEducator> would be an excellent to for debuggers <kl_eisbaer> otherwise: my AI..... <kl_eisbaer> Update the Roadmap for the Edu-DVD => done :-) <kl_eisbaer> request a new project on http://developer.novell.com/ and move some stuff from opensuse-education.org there. => done <kl_eisbaer> move the current Wishlist to the Bugtracker and write an HowTo how to add new wishes there. => initially done <kl_eisbaer> others like <kl_eisbaer> Provide a list of applications for a new pattern|group "scientists". <kl_eisbaer> Split of the Development page into pieces. <kl_eisbaer> write documentation about the openSUSE-Education Update repository for normal users and (School-)Admins <kl_eisbaer> not done <kl_eisbaer> but work in progress :-) <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: I see an AI for you in the list <kl_eisbaer> "Promote openSUSE-Education everywhere. " <kl_eisbaer> what's the status here ? :-) <suseROCKs> /me runs <suseROCKs> I do talk to people about it here and there, and am thinking of ways to help you guys reach a broader market. <kl_eisbaer> ok - looks like a good start ;-) <kl_eisbaer> for the end

<kl_eisbaer> Anything left for "Q&A" ? <suseROCKs> Yes <suseROCKs> What is the meaning of life? <kl_eisbaer> Yehoova :-) <suseROCKs> :-) <krish> suseROCKs: life is when a lizard gets his prey <krish> :)

<kl_eisbaer> ok - so I think we can close our 2hours Meeting now <suseROCKs> Then let us pray for the lizard <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: yes; that's a good idea <krish> kl_eisbaer: is the meeting minutes being stored <kl_eisbaer> good bye everyone - and a big THANK YOU for participating <The_Code_> bye kl_eisbaer <kl_eisbaer> krish: yes, you can find the minutes tomorrow in the wiki <kl_eisbaer> I'll try to write a summary and send it to the mailinglist, too <kl_eisbaer> bye! <kkirill> God bless our project :) <krish> ciao bye Ended at: 2008-11-18 19:04:50