Started at: 2008-09-16 17:01:24 <kl_eisbaer> Welcome to the openSUSE-Education Meeting <suseROCKs> Thanks for letting me sit in again and watching the festivities.  :-) <kl_eisbaer> Please have a look at our Topics at http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Meetings/Current <cyberorg> hi <aochs> hi <japerry> hello

<kl_eisbaer> Starting with the first topic: Old action items <kl_eisbaer> => cyberorg, your part :-) <cyberorg> i've updated ltsp packages, we can now call it "stable" <cyberorg> even p133 boots opensuse 11.0 :) <cyberorg> filed a bug request to include the update in -edu media <kl_eisbaer> cool: how much RAM is needed on p133 ? <cyberorg> Jan is away, office dinner, so will not be able to make it, tere are a couple of bugs in easy-ltsp, he is working on it <cyberorg> kl_eisbaer, not really usable, but in 128M using LDM_DIRECTX, no localdev, no sound, it should be good <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: ok - sounds like something for topic 4 ;-) <cyberorg> kl_eisbaer, nope, using light weight DE does not matter as after user logs in, all the server resources are used <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: are you _really_ shure? <cyberorg> yes <kl_eisbaer> With LTSP 4 I found it very useful to use icewm instead of KDE <kl_eisbaer> as the network traffic is very *very* slower with icewm than with KDE <kl_eisbaer> have you tried to run your setup with 1 Terminalserver and 40 Clients? <cyberorg> kl_eisbaer, it is completely dependent on server specs and yes network traffic if you have over 50 TC <kl_eisbaer> but => topic 4, please ;-) <cyberorg> http://dev.compiz-fusion.org/~cyberorg/2008/09/12/announcing-opensuse-ltsp-050-using-kiwi-imaging-technology/ <cyberorg> that is all from ltsp team <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: ok, thanks <kl_eisbaer> Jasujt and anubigsg1 not here, so I like to ask: is there any other AI I've forgotten? <cyberorg> it is now production ready so start making use of it <mstopka> kl_eisbaer: hi :D <kl_eisbaer> hi mstopka :-) <kl_eisbaer> any news/questions from your side?

<kl_eisbaer> Topic 2: Status of the wiki pages <kl_eisbaer> kkirill: I think this is something you should drive <kkirill> I like your version http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Applications/Desktop_Temp2 <kl_eisbaer> Thanks - it has just a small change comparing to your version <kkirill> but I don't want to use age categories at the top level <kl_eisbaer> Has anyone an idea for the category problems? <kkirill> better to use Languages, Amusements, Natural Sciences <kl_eisbaer> kkirill: ah! Even a good idea <kkirill> and ages as program specific, since one program can fit all ages <cyberorg> someone recently asked software for very young children, so age wise is good idea too <kkirill> may be we should use different colors for ages <kl_eisbaer> what about using images ? <kkirill> so packages colored with pink is for very young <kl_eisbaer> like the KDE and GNOME icons - we can try to add icons for the different age groups if needed? <kkirill> I don't know good icons for ages <kkirill> which have good metaphore to understand age easy <kl_eisbaer> kkirill: I think I can search for some - we here in germany have a "child-welfare" organisation - perhaps they've some <cyberorg> we have couple of artists may be they can come up with something <kl_eisbaer> but using colors is also a good idea <kkirill> so we can use all: color, text information and icon :) <kl_eisbaer> as footstamps are reserved for gnome, perhaps we can use playing kids and a doctoral cap <kl_eisbaer> looks good :-) <suseROCKs> Sounds cool, but also sounds a bit elitist. Not sure if that's the direction you're going for. <kl_eisbaer> kkirill: but we need someone who redesignes the main page <kkirill> so If you find icons, I'll make it <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: you mean the "doctoral cap"? It's just an example <kl_eisbaer> kkirill: great! /me is searching ... ;_) <suseROCKs> yes, and I know it was just an example. A good one in fact. Just stating.  :-) <kkirill> but how many age groups, two or theree? <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: jip - I'll try to find good examples - and hopefully cyberorgs artists, too :-) <kl_eisbaer> kkirill: currently we've two <kkirill> I see, but is it enough? <kl_eisbaer> kkirill: I don't know - but nobody had cried <aochs> I think its enough <kl_eisbaer> I just take the same groups as patterns... <kkirill> ok, if we add new pattern, then we should add new group <kl_eisbaer> kkirill: if you like, ask on the mailinglist <kl_eisbaer> perhaps we've currently enough software with is more usable for scientists than students <kl_eisbaer> kkirill: do you need more input for the relaunch? :-) <kl_eisbaer> Otherwise I like to drive forward to http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Development <kkirill> should we mark program for senior use? <cyberorg> i'd like to add that we added a couple of more pages to wiki <kkirill> for scientists only <cyberorg> http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Quick_start/Easy-LTSP and http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/SLED10 <cyberorg> http://en.opensuse.org/Category:LTSP is turning into a big library <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: wow! LTSP on SLED10 is nice! <cyberorg> kl_eisbaer, it is a hack ;) image is opensuse 11.0 inside the prebuilt package <kl_eisbaer> kkirill: yes, but we first need a list of apps for that new group <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: doesn't matter if it works :-) <kl_eisbaer> /me thinks about running SLED10 on a P133...  ;-) <kl_eisbaer> kkirill: If you like, we can try to "build" such a list out of the current available apps in the OBS repo <kl_eisbaer> kkirill: but we should discuss about this list in the mailinglist - I can take the AI to come up with a first proposal of such a list if you like <kl_eisbaer> Heya! Welcome jbrockmeier alias Zonker! :-) <kkirill> ok, for now I'll make a redising for only two already existing groups <kl_eisbaer> kkirill: yes - if you design is good enough, adding images/colors for the new group should be easy <jbrockmeier> hi kl_eisbaer :-) <jbrockmeier> sorry I'm late. :-) <japerry> cyberorg: great work on the new LTSP release.. testing now! :-D <kl_eisbaer> jbrockmeier: as you can see: openSUSE-Education is growing, and growing, and growing, ... :-) <kl_eisbaer> /me thanks cyberorg: Topic 2b: <jbrockmeier> kl_eisbaer: I see that - this is an impressive turnout :-) <decriptor> hi all :) <cyberorg> thanks to many people from #linux-india :) <kl_eisbaer> I've enhanced the Development wiki page a bit - any doubts against splitting it up into single pages? <kl_eisbaer> I think the packaging part is more important than the details on how to build an openSUSE-Education DVD <kl_eisbaer> ...and I hope we can increase the "building Edu-YaST-Modules" in the near future :-) <japerry> jbrockmeier: I've been getting more people interested in my LTSP and Novell client work.. hows the 11 client going? <jbrockmeier> japerry: the Novell client for 11.0? I haven't heard anything new. <jbrockmeier> I will ping the developer. <kl_eisbaer> Are there any informations missing on the Development page? <decriptor> japerry: I heard that teh 11.0 client doesn't really exist <decriptor> but don't quote me on that <japerry> decriptor: there are some hacks to make it work -- we use it *caugh* in production, but there are a few issues <cyberorg> kl_eisbaer, there is much more information there, may be building the DVD and other stuff that we normally do not require can be moved to other page?> <japerry> decriptor: http://www.fcdnet.org/japerry/2008/05/ltsp-kiwi-opensuse-11-novell-edirectory.html <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: yes, so I'll proceed that way splitting the page into pieces <kl_eisbaer> Any other ideas for Topic 2?

<kl_eisbaer> => Topic 3: Re-launch of openSUSE-Education webpage <decriptor> kl_eisbaer: sorry, what was topic 2 :) <cyberorg> all the new folks please have a look and sign up, we will be happy to mentor you to become opensuse-edu developer :) <kl_eisbaer> decriptor: Status of the wiki pages <decriptor> ah <kl_eisbaer> decriptor: see http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Meetings/Education_Meeting_2008-09-16 <kl_eisbaer> back to Topic 3: I've listed the current feature list of opensuse-education.org <kl_eisbaer> I think some of the features are obsolete now <kl_eisbaer> the forum for example => might be better to use a special place on forums.opensuse.org for education topic <kl_eisbaer> Repo- and ISO-Image hosting is still a big part (FYI >500GB since RC1 release) - and I already "pinged" the openSUSE board to decide if they can mirror the education stuff <cyberorg> we can ask ops there to create education sub section <kl_eisbaer> but currently, there's no decision <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: do you know them? <cyberorg> nope, but i am sure some hang out in -chat <kl_eisbaer> ok - should I ask them - or do you like to take this AI ? <cyberorg> i'll ask <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: thanks <kl_eisbaer> Weblinks and FAQ are currently not used -> so obsolete <kl_eisbaer> What's left is: Bugtracker, SVN, News, Hosting (and for the future: Package Database) <kl_eisbaer> So I'm thinking if we can/should integrate the current page into developer.novell.com for example <cyberorg> i'd once again suggest using whatever software front end benji, yaloki and their team are developing for -edu too <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: you mean community-opensuse.org ? <cyberorg> kl_eisbaer, no, software portal is under development <cyberorg> *new <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: ah - this one <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: but openSUSE-Edu is a bit more than a simple software portal.... <cyberorg> kl_eisbaer, use that only for package database <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: ok - and what do you think about "migrating" to http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/Education or something like that? <cyberorg> bug tracker, we discussed before, using bugzilla.novell.com is better as people dont have to sign up again, unless we use ichain for -edu bug tracker <cyberorg> kl_eisbaer, that is a good suggestion, as we are covered by ichain there <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: yes, that's even what I think - and we've svn, and bugtracker, too <kl_eisbaer> I think, I should ask this topic also on the mailinglist - but currently that looks like the "coolest solution" for me :-) <kl_eisbaer> ...and I didn't have to maintain the whole server stuff :-) <cyberorg> for all those who do not know novell offers project hosting at http://developer.novell.com (novellforge) like sourceforge, wiki, svn, bug tracker etc <kkirill> the only missing thins is Package Database for translations, which never worked in previous place <kl_eisbaer> kkirill: yes, main part is ready - but I didn't find the time to implement the rest - big sorry! <kkirill> no problem, but we should find a new solution for it <kl_eisbaer> kkirill: but if the software-portal grows, I think we should think about a general solution there... <kkirill> ok, in any case it isn't very important <cyberorg> opensuse-edu is as big as 11.0 distribution <cyberorg> in size i mean, one whole DVD <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: yes - a great success IMO ;-) <suseROCKs> That definitely warrants increased promotion as it implies it's jam-packed with goodies for adolescent learning. <suseROCKs> I suggest someone here write a tutorial about how to get and use openSUSE-EDU and publish it at opensuse-tutorials.com for more attention. <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: yes - but an old "todo" is still open: review all apps on the current media and sort them into "usefull" and "not so usefull" <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: you mean something like http://www.opensuse-education.org/download/repos/installation_on_10_3.pdf ? <kl_eisbaer> ^^ installation and configuration of some example apps <suseROCKs> sure, but also publish it at openSUSE-Tutorials. More websites = more hits  :-) <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: If you tell us how to publish it there... :-) <suseROCKs> decriptor: what was the last count of readers on oS-T? I think it was around 900 not too long ago. <cyberorg> suseROCKs, just in case you dont get a place on board, we have opensuse-edu marketing director place open :) <suseROCKs> What's the pay?  :-) <cyberorg> stuffed geeko <suseROCKs> ;-) <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: a big tribute from all over the world's schools and universities :-) <suseROCKs> kl_eisbaer: All you have to do is register there. Then one of the editors approves your status and you can write away. It is a wordpress installation, so fairly straightforward. <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: ah, ok <kl_eisbaer> looks like this is also something for LTSP *kicking cyberorg* ;-) <suseROCKs> just out of curiousity, are any of you educators by profession? <suseROCKs> now now, no kicking cyberorg  :-) A gentle poke with a cattleprod will do. <cyberorg> as ltsp is "ready" i should have a bit of time promoting it <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: I've studied a long time ago to become a teacher - but only my wife has made it :-) <suseROCKs> kl_eisbaer: Well I was just wondering, as its likely that educators would be best suited to determine "useful" and "not so useful" as you were saying earlier. <suseROCKs> but that's just an opinion. <jbrockmeier> did I hear "promotion"? <jbrockmeier> who in the -edu project is participating on the -marketing list / meetings? <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: just search in the archives of the opensuse-edu mailinglist for this topic :-) <suseROCKs> /me wants to know what keywords jbrockmeier uses to highlight on his IRC client  :-) <jbrockmeier> suseROCKs: just my nick, actually, but I am scrolling up ;-) <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: but we should also have a look in the other educational distributions and see what they do/package <suseROCKs> kl_eisbaer: Sorry I kind of sidetracked your agenda there... Let me quiet up a bit so you can finish up. But I would like to bring up something in the end if you have Q&A period. <kl_eisbaer> ok - thanks

<kl_eisbaer> so I think we can close the "re-launch" topic and start with topic 4: Windowmanager for (LTSP) Clients with limited resources <kl_eisbaer> has anyone tried to really use openSUSE 11.0 on a client with limited resources? <cyberorg> for a normal workstation using xfce, matchbox, e16/17 would help a bit <kl_eisbaer> Ubuntu has released a "special distribution" using xfce as far as I know for such cleints <cyberorg> kl_eisbaer, http://dev.compiz-fusion.org/~cyberorg/2008/09/05/spin-opensuse-live-cd-or-usb-stick-image-easily/ <kl_eisbaer> but I'm thinking about users (teachers) migrating from Windows to Linux <cyberorg> couple of those images are FVWM <kl_eisbaer> and I think we should use something like fvwm or icewm <cyberorg> there is XFCE spin in works too <kl_eisbaer> as they are nearer to windows <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: so what about integrating some edu-apps into this live-medias and perhaps "theme" them a bit? <cyberorg> i was working on it, unfortunately the patterns did not work out, so will test again soon <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: what's the problem with the patterns? <kl_eisbaer> kiwi should be able to "resolv" them IMO - or not? <cyberorg> somehow kiwi installed only few packages when using pattern, i'll list the packages manually <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: please ping me if you need help <cyberorg> yes it does resolve patterns, my net connection is not so good so that could be the reason, i'll investigate more <kl_eisbaer> I like the idea to release some Live-Media together or shortly after the final 11.0 release <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: any chance to see your kiwi config? <cyberorg> regarding LTSP client, lightweight DE does not make much difference as all processing is done on the server <kl_eisbaer> I think our network bandwith here is wider ;-) <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: yes, but some windowmanagers produce more load on the server and even more network traffic <cyberorg> for network traffic, our latest packages have support for nxagent, it is supposed to drastically reduce X traffic <kl_eisbaer> I've encapsulated all network traffic with FreeNX in the past - this was a huge step forward <kl_eisbaer> but using another windowmanager likce icewm was even a success <cyberorg> LDM_COMMAND=/usr/bin/gnome-session-nx in lts.conf to test <kl_eisbaer> ^^^ something for our promotion <cyberorg> afaik we are the only distro shipping that script <kl_eisbaer> next Topic?

<kl_eisbaer> => 5. Status Edu-DVD for 11.0 <kl_eisbaer> the bugtracker is very silent at the moment <kl_eisbaer> looks like our packages work - or nobody uses them <suseROCKs> Go with the first one... The Glass is always Half Full.  :-) <kl_eisbaer> I like to kick out grass completely - as the current dependencies are a hassle <kl_eisbaer> any doubts against that? <kl_eisbaer> Apart from that, I think we can follow our Roadmap and release the final version in two weeks (with updated *LTSP packages) <cyberorg> http://forgeftp.novell.com/kiwi-ltsp/tarballs/gnome-edu.tar.bz2 <kl_eisbaer> This would lead over to Topic 6: Update Repository for 11.0 - if nobody has additional points for this topic <cyberorg> extract that in /usr/share/kiwi/image/

<kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: thanks <kl_eisbaer> What's your impression: do we need an Update Repository  ? <kl_eisbaer> Or should we point users with broken packages to the OBS-Repo after the release? <cyberorg> kl_eisbaer, taking ltsp example there might be some bug fixes to many packages after we release, instead of download whole packages again, patch rpm would be good, if too much work is not involved <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: I think beside the patch-documentation nearly all is scriptable <kl_eisbaer> So I'm fine with providing such an update repository <cyberorg> then it would be a good addition, more professional <kl_eisbaer> I just want to ask if you feel it's ok to add the repository automatically to the users repositories during installation <cyberorg> yes, like you did with a rpm package <kl_eisbaer> So every workstation who installs the openSUSE-Education repository will automatically get the online repository <suseROCKs> Presumably, by workstations, you're referring to school machines... <cyberorg> what do you all think? <cyberorg> suseROCKs, any PC where opensuse-edu addon is installed <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: yes - the current result would be an enabled repository http://www.opensuse-education.org/download/updates/1.0/11.0/ on every machine <suseROCKs> so I think, from my experience deploying machines via image in schools, you would want to ensure an easy to learn method for administrators to set up a central update repository rather than have all school machines go out onto the internet. <kl_eisbaer> I can even add the repository in disabled state <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: yes, that's a good point <suseROCKs> maybe an option during install "Is this a home computer"? (if so, enable the update repository), "Is this a school computer?" (Read more here about repository options) <kl_eisbaer> But in the end, this is a documentation issue: "rsync the update-tree and adapt the file /etc/zypp/repos.d/openSUSE-Education-Update.repo" <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: yes, you#re right <suseROCKs> yes, agreed. Provided the school has admins with reasonable expertise to read docs :-) some schools don't have that. <kl_eisbaer> but this needs an additional yast module... *hm* <kl_eisbaer> So what about adding the update-repo in state disabled <suseROCKs> I'm just throwing out my experience from when I've don consulting work for schools. <kl_eisbaer> this way school computers wont search for updates <kl_eisbaer> and homeusers can easily enable it <suseROCKs> provided the home user understands to do that.  :-) <kl_eisbaer> for schools, there should be something in the documentation how to sync the repo <suseROCKs> which, of course is a documentation issue.  :-) <kl_eisbaer> yep :-) <kl_eisbaer> So I'll adapt the current package with a disabled repo <Petaris> There should be a way to have a local repo that is kept up to date via rsync or the like <kl_eisbaer> and perhaps find the time to adapt the workflow during installation, so this repo can be enabled automatically if the user decides <kl_eisbaer> Petaris: yes, as the update repo is a "full openSUSE-Update repo", you just need to rsync it and point your clients to the new location <Petaris> right, just saying there should be docs on how to do it <Petaris> ;) <kl_eisbaer> Petaris: ok - taking this as my action item ;-) <Petaris> and maybe an option during install to add a local update repo

<kl_eisbaer> Next Topic: 7 Status Wishlist <kl_eisbaer> anybody reviewed http://en.opensuse.org/Wishlist_Education ? <cyberorg> fedora has electronics lab spin, dont know what packages are there, we would like to do different -edu flavours <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: you mean their live-CD they released a few days ago? <kl_eisbaer> => Q& A please <cyberorg> yes <kl_eisbaer> I just want to ask if we can switch to http://www.opensuse-education.org/mantis/my_view_page.php and the Project "Wishlist Education Applications" <kl_eisbaer> instead of using the wiki page <kkirill> as to me I've never used wiki <kl_eisbaer> this way, we would always get the needed informations (Upstream URL, License) and all what's done with the new wish is tracked <kl_eisbaer> This needs someone who enters the current wishlist into the bugtracker and adds a note in the wiki - so people can start adding their wishes on opensuse-edcuation.org <kl_eisbaer> I can take this as AI - if all are fine with this idea <kl_eisbaer> any doubts? <kkirill> what about feature request guideliness? <cyberorg> when is openFATE coming? we can use that for wishlist tracking <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: openFATE should be coming after the ISO-building in the OBS :-) <Petaris> Mantis is a bit more complicated for those not used to bug trackers <Petaris> just a thought <kl_eisbaer> and ISO-Building is first time working now :-) <kl_eisbaer> Petaris: you're right - but is using mantis more complicated than writing in mediawiki-style ? <Petaris> for the dev side its probably nicer though <Petaris> good point <kl_eisbaer> Currently somebody from the devs has to cleanup the wiki page each one or two weeks <kl_eisbaer> because someone doesn't know how to close the table or something like that <Petaris> ahh <kl_eisbaer> ...using mantis is not so time consuming for developers... :-) <kl_eisbaer> but you're right: we need docu to make it as easy as possible for users to enter their wish :-) <kkirill> may be we should only track wish list entries in mantis, but not to kill them until they are not resolved <kl_eisbaer> kkirill: yes, that's my proposal <kl_eisbaer> if we "delete" an entry from the wiki wishlist - someone adds the same entry just some days after... <kkirill> we should delete only we have it on final dvd <kl_eisbaer> ...so we need to mark packages in the wiki as "resolved" already - and this increases the page <kl_eisbaer> yes - the good thing using mantis is: the whole history of a package wish is open for everyone <Petaris> not if you can hide the resolved entries <kl_eisbaer> debian for example uses this for a while now <Petaris> then the page shouldn't be huge <kl_eisbaer> Petaris: you mean the wiki page? <Petaris> no, Mantis <kl_eisbaer> ah, ok <kl_eisbaer> Proposal from my side: <Petaris> someone should be able to go back and look at "resolved" entries but we could hide them by default <Petaris> *perhaps <kl_eisbaer> I transfer the current wiki page into mantis and create a enduser documentation how to use it <kl_eisbaer> and if anybody agrees, we relaunch the current wiki wishlist <kkirill> and may be add "issue' column instead of 'remark' <kl_eisbaer> just containing the docu <Petaris> Does Mantis require users to be logged in to submit or can anon users submit? <kl_eisbaer> Petaris: anon users can submit, yes <Petaris> or could it be tied into the same auth mech as the rest of the site? <Petaris> ok <Petaris> just wanted to check <kl_eisbaer> But they can't edit their entry afterwards <Petaris> it can be a pain having to create a new account to do any little thing <kl_eisbaer> Petaris: no, currently the mantis bugtracker on opensuse-education is open for everyone <Petaris> ahh, ok <kl_eisbaer> and we still have bugreports from anonymous users <kl_eisbaer> kkirill: the remark column is a default mantis column - but I can add an issue column, too, if you like <kkirill> issue should link to the appropriate mantis issue <kl_eisbaer> kkirill: ah, sorry, you mean the wiki page. <kl_eisbaer> I thought you need the issue column in mantis <kl_eisbaer> kkirill: yes, I'll adding this column in the wiki <kkirill> thanks

<kl_eisbaer> Next topic: 8 Q&A Section <kl_eisbaer> First important question: next meeting? <kl_eisbaer> GM relase for openSUSE-Education is 25/09/2008 <kl_eisbaer> do we need a meeting bevore the release? <suseROCKs> Any release parties planned? <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: if you pay for some :-) <suseROCKs> /me wants to go to cyberorg's release party cuz he knows cyberorg parties hard. <kl_eisbaer> If we don't need a meeting bevore the release - what about a meeting after the release? :-) <cyberorg> kl_eisbaer, would there be delta iso to update to final? <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: I can try to create one if you need it <cyberorg> yes please, it takes me couple of days to get 4G <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: ok <cyberorg> /me going away, ciao all <kl_eisbaer> So what about Tue, 30/09/2008 ? <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: ciao! <kl_eisbaer> If nobody has a better idea, I'll add this date to my meeting list <Petaris> later cyberorg <kl_eisbaer> Any other questions around? <suseROCKs> yes <suseROCKs> 2 actually <kl_eisbaer> start, please :-) <suseROCKs> 1) Just out of curiousity, does -EDU provide any kind of reporting mechanism for teachers so they can watch the progress of students using -EDU? <kl_eisbaer> You mean a monitoring application like italc ? <kl_eisbaer> => http://en.opensuse.org/Italc <suseROCKs> not sure about italc, but to show how far students are coming along with learning things. <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: ah <kl_eisbaer> this currently depends on the apps <kl_eisbaer> some allows to track users activities like gcompis <kl_eisbaer> sorry, s/gcompis/gcompris/ <kl_eisbaer> others don't <suseROCKs> I happen to be the tecnical director for an online service which will provide student progress of lessons to university professors. So I was just wondering, as that's a hotly demanded feature <kl_eisbaer> yes, I know <kl_eisbaer> For online apps, we've included moodle <suseROCKs> Teachers no longer want to grade homework  :-) <kl_eisbaer> the learning plattform - this allows users to work from any place on earth <kl_eisbaer> and their progress can be tracked by their mentors <suseROCKs> but that's not something that -EDU as a whole can do for teachers, yet. Right? <kl_eisbaer> moodle even allows to write online tests in a course - with automated results <decriptor> /me wishes blackboard/webct would just die off! <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: combining all applications so they write a single "reportfile" is very problematic in an open source world <kl_eisbaer> even the kdeedu apps don't allow this <suseROCKs> ok was just asking  :-) <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: please ask again and again! <kl_eisbaer> this is a very good question and should be asked to every edu-developer <suseROCKs> kl_eisbaer: you asked for it! Next question coming up. <suseROCKs> since cyberorg mentioned "board" earlier... :-) (although he just left) <suseROCKs> There happens to be two board candidates in the channel right now.  :-) And I think this period of time is a great way for you to propel visibility of your project to the community as a whole. <suseROCKs> So my question to you all.. Where do you feel -EDU sits in the community and what would you want to see from the Board for -EDU? <suseROCKs> Because you guys are doing great work and deserve more prominent visibility in the community. <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: one of my points is not edu specific - it belongs to all subprojects of openSUSE... <kl_eisbaer> We need a policy which says: "This is an official openSUSE project and this not" <kl_eisbaer> including a guidline how to become such a project <kl_eisbaer> and a "benefit" plan <kl_eisbaer> for openSUSE Education this benefit could be the posiibility to use the official openSUSE mirrors <kl_eisbaer> for other projects, this could be using the openSUSE logo <suseROCKs> so like official sponsorship by the Community or Board. <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: yes <kl_eisbaer> for example: the xfce people doing also a great job <suseROCKs> I've been thinking about that as well.. I think Board members should have representative mentorship in all officially sanctioned projects. <kl_eisbaer> why not allowing them to mirror their special live-medias <kl_eisbaer> yes <suseROCKs> But some of what you are saying is technical, and that's Novell's area, not the Board unfortunately. <decriptor> suseROCKs: though maybe a place for the board to propose things like that to Novell <kl_eisbaer> Well: the board has to define when a project is official - this is a guideline and a political question <suseROCKs> yes <decriptor> kl_eisbaer: that is a good point, maybe that's someone where the board can focus on this time around <kl_eisbaer> what about project like openSUSE-Education using an alienated openSUSE icon? <kl_eisbaer> beside the law in the different countries: the openSUSE logo is a Novell trademark <kl_eisbaer> but I think the board should be able to decide if some projects can use the official or an "adapted" logo <suseROCKs> kl_eisbaer: has anyone from Novell addressed that or even acknowledged the existence of the issue? <kl_eisbaer> ...and that's just the top of questions in this area <kl_eisbaer> AJ, mloeffler, ... <decriptor> I wonder if a good approach is to generate an application system for projects to become sanctioned by opensuse/suse/novell <kl_eisbaer> I asked all of them bevore I submitted the openSUSE-Edu logo to the wiki <kl_eisbaer> decriptor: +1 ! <decriptor> kl_eisbaer: that would make sense <suseROCKs> kl_eisbaer: believe me, I sympathize with your situation. As you know, I set up Helping Hands project and even though everyone supports it, the lack of "Official" sanction makes things harder. <decriptor> that way there is some structure and authoritative center <kl_eisbaer> if a project is marked as "official" project, this would give a good reputation for this project <suseROCKs> Exactly <decriptor> it also makes it look like we know what we are doing :) <decriptor> that I wonder how much of this work overlaps <decriptor> ? <decriptor> the hard part is maybe support <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: so my "wish" for the next board: give "us" more guidelines ;-) <decriptor> if its an official project, do we support it? <suseROCKs> The fact is, the Board should not just be a conduit of communication to Novell, but also as an agent of elevation for the community as a whole. <suseROCKs> decriptor: well there's a distinction between "support" and "endorse" <suseROCKs> an endorsement carries fewer technical burdens but still gives the project the weight it needs to sustain reputation <decriptor> /me creates a new tomboy note with this information :) <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: we've enough technical skills in openSUSE - what we sometimes miss is someone who gives these skills a direction.... <suseROCKs> That makes sense too. <kl_eisbaer> The global vision to be the best Linux distribution is not enough - we need more fine granular targets for different areas <kl_eisbaer> something like "smalles basesystem ever" <kl_eisbaer> or "easiest and userfriendliest desktop" <suseROCKs> kl_eisbaer: well as being an observer here the last few meetings, it was an eye opener how energetic this group is, and doesn't seem prominent enough as a whole. <kl_eisbaer> is something even technicans _and_ endusers can understand <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: well: sometimes small groups are the only way to be energetic enough <Petaris> yeah, if they get too large there are too many politics <Petaris> :/ <decriptor> kl_eisbaer: that's a great point. It would be interesting to have people define "best linux distribution" <decriptor> and make goals around those definitions <kl_eisbaer> a more prominent position (marketing like) is sometimes more prejudicial <suseROCKs> decriptor: FYI: I kid you not. Today was a bit of a drier meeting, but the last two meetings, very exciting stuff in here. This is one energetic group if I ever saw one in openSUSE <Petaris> decriptor: But thats almost impossible to define <Petaris> every one has their own opinion on what would make the best distro <decriptor> Petaris: that's what makes it even more interesting <decriptor> maybe look at the things that are repeated the most <kl_eisbaer> Petaris: and someone (the board?) has to decide in the end what way to go <Petaris> right, I am just saying that its going to be difficult to come up with one description <decriptor> Petaris: that's not what I was thinking <kl_eisbaer> Petaris: that means that some people will go because the board drives the distro in another direction - but other will come instead <decriptor> I thought of it as more a brain storming session of sorts <suseROCKs> Petaris: but that's what makes -EDU a shining example. Instead of coming up with a description that becomes a cookie cutter, you took it upon yourselves to make -EDU to meet a specific definition <kl_eisbaer> decriptor: yes, collect the current ideas of the "best Distro" <kl_eisbaer> and afterwards make a decision and focus on some of the "best ideas" <decriptor> I think in a way this allows the community to define the "best distribution" <decriptor> its empowers them to give input and direction to the distribution <decriptor> the board is their to serve the community <decriptor> if we are a community distribution <suseROCKs> Not just serve, but elevate.  :-) <suseROCKs> So, did we make good use of the Q&A?  :-) <kl_eisbaer> suseROCKs: absolutely ;-) <decriptor> :) <kl_eisbaer> I should close the meeting - bevore we left the line :-) <suseROCKs> heh <decriptor> kl_eisbaer: I think this project is awesome, I have it as one of my repos :) <suseROCKs> And I need to get going. But do accept our appreciation for allowing us to hear what you have to say. <decriptor> kl_eisbaer: those were some really good points <kl_eisbaer> decriptor: nice to hear - knowing people really using what we produce is sometimes the best payment...! <decriptor> :)

<kl_eisbaer> ok - so good luck for the election <suseROCKs> Thanks again guys! Keep up the great work! <decriptor> as I'm still in college it would be great to see some of this stuff accepted mroe <decriptor> more <kl_eisbaer> and have a nice day/night/whatever .-)